How good would the LOI be with a €145,000,000 investment?

niallo27

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Because over 10,000 people are leaving in Ireland that week, with nearly everyone of them spending over a grand each. Thats what the thread is about. People leaving Ireland to see sporting events in Britain and spending hundreds of millions.

Do you go abroad for your holiday by any chance

OPENROAD

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Because over 10,000 people are leaving in Ireland that week, with nearly everyone of them spending over a grand each. Thats what the thread is about. People leaving Ireland to see sporting events in Britain and spending hundreds of millions.

We are not in a position as a country to compete with Cheltenham.

Richard Hillman

plasmaguy wrote: »

And because we live in a free country they can't and shouldn't be stopped.

Nobody is stopping anyone do anything. What is being suggested is to put a bigger and better show on here how thousands wont feel the need to go away that week.

OPENROAD wrote: »

We are not in a position as a country to compete with Cheltenham.

Why not? We are not in a position to stand idly by and see millions flow into the British economy and out of ours.

applehunter

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Nobody is stopping anyone do anything. What is being suggested is to put a bigger and better show on here how thousands wont feel the need to go away that week.




Why not? We are not in a position to stand idly by and see millions flow into the British economy and out of ours.

Do you follow the National Hunt game here?

We have the Punchestown Festival in April. That is our National Hunt Festival.

Richard Hillman

applehunter wrote: »

Do you follow the National Hunt game here?

We have the Punchestown Festival in April. That is our National Hunt Festival.

And we can have another race festival the week of Cheltenham, with bigger prize money than Cheltenham and 10,000+ people will stay here and millions wont leave the economy. Whats so hard to comprehend about it?

bohsman

niallo27 wrote: »

At the end of the day its my money and Ill spend it where ever the **** i want.

Not sure what that has to do with the topic?

OPENROAD

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Why not? We are not in a position to stand idly by and see millions flow into the British economy and out of ours.

Good luck with that Project

wandatowell

mars bar wrote: »

A person who spends €800 on a trip to a PL match needs their head fúcking checked.
It can easily be done on €200.

You are right, was looking at Arsenal vs Bolton in a few weeks, 149 euro's all in. match ticket, return flight and cheap hotel

Richard Hillman

OPENROAD wrote: »

Good luck with that Project

Great debating.

OPENROAD

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Great debating.

Have no problem debating but only with a realistic suggestion that actually has some realistic Economic merit

applehunter

Richard Hillman wrote: »

And we can have another race festival the week of Cheltenham, with bigger prize money than Cheltenham and 10,000+ people will stay here and millions wont leave the economy. Whats so hard to comprehend about it?

It shows a lack of understanding of the National Hunt industries in GB & Ire.

Both feed off each other.

Gavin "shels"

plasmaguy wrote: »

(c) There aren't enough fans in Ireland to ensure LOI clubs have big followings

Christ! Now just a simple stat, the Champions League showed a viewing of nearly one million viewers on RTE last year iirc, now if even a fifth of those went to a LoI match that would mean roughly 20,000 per match per week. Granted not all fans go to away games and every home game but you get the idea!

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Nobody is stopping anyone do anything. What is being suggested is to put a bigger and better show on here how thousands wont feel the need to go away that week.

Why not? We are not in a position to stand idly by and see millions flow into the British economy and out of ours.

Have you ever been to Punchestown Festival? If you did you'd know that you'd fine hundreds of English over supporting our economy, pumping money into the surrounding areas, etc...

Plus Cheltenham is more like the World Cup of National Hunt racing rather than a
National League, so it's a pretty poor comparsion imo. Maybe compare Bath with Tramore or something along the lines and you see very little travelling across the Irish Sea for these minor meetings every week.

applehunter wrote: »

It shows a lack of understanding of the National Hunt industries in GB & Ire.

Both feed off each other.

+1

OPENROAD

Gavin shels wrote: »

Have you ever been to Punchestown Festival? If you did you'd know that you'd fine hundreds of English over supporting our economy, pumping money into the surrounding areas, etc...

Plus Cheltenham is more like the World Cup of National Hunt racing rather than a
National League, so it's a pretty poor comparsion imo. Maybe compare Bath with Tramore or something along the lines and you see very little travelling across the Irish Sea for these minor meetings every week.

+1

popzmaster

wandatowell wrote: »

You are right, was looking at Arsenal vs Bolton in a few weeks, 149 euro's all in. match ticket, return flight and cheap hotel

€149 - Go to one match (and this is considered cheap)
€100 - Go to 18 matches

Easy choice for people who like going to football matches

Zebra3

Gavin shels wrote: »

Christ! Now just a simple stat, the Champions League showed a viewing of nearly one million viewers on RTE last year iirc, now if even a fifth of those went to a LoI match that would mean roughly 20,000 per match per week.

Could you imagine the traffic in Drom? :eek:

Blured

As some people have said I think attracting families from the local communities would be a good step. Making the match day more family friendly though is a big challenge.

I was at the Bohs Ljubljana game in July and was sitting down near the main Bohs supporters section in the Jodi (near the Des Kelly stand). The level of hate and abuse on display was amazing (at least to me). The poor Ljubljana right back copped the most just for taking throw-ins - a couple of times people rushed from the stand trying to grab him (or maybe just to get close enough to give him some more abuse).

My point is this -this was not the kind of place for a family outing. Now people will say, then sit somewhere else, but to get to concession stands in Dalymount you have to walk past that section. The whole experience would definitely put me off going again, let alone bring children along

Anyway - just my 2cents

stovelid

Blured wrote: »

As some people have said I think attracting families from the local communities would be a good step. Making the match day more family friendly though is a big challenge.

I was at the Bohs Ljubljana game in July and was sitting down near the main Bohs supporters section in the Jodi (near the Des Kelly stand). The level of hate and abuse on display was amazing (at least to me). The poor Ljubljana right back copped the most just for taking throw-ins - a couple of times people rushed from the stand trying to grab him (or maybe just to get close enough to give him some more abuse).

My point is this -this was not the kind of place for a family outing. Now people will say, then sit somewhere else, but to get to concession stands in Dalymount you have to walk past that section. The whole experience would definitely put me off going again, let alone bring children along

Anyway - just my 2cents

I used to think it was the business when my Da lost it and swore at players and officials when he took me to football or GAA games. Even funnier was the immediate (wholly insincere) apology and instruction not to tell my Ma.

Blured

stovelid wrote: »

I used to think it was the business when my Da lost it and swore at players and officials when he took me to football or GAA games. Even funnier was the immediate (wholly insincere) apology and instruction not to tell my Ma.

I am not talking about the odd bit of swearing here - you get that at all games be it Soccer, GAA, Rugby, whatever. This was full on hate/vile being poured out.

dan1895

Blured wrote: »

As some people have said I think attracting families from the local communities would be a good step. Making the match day more family friendly though is a big challenge.

I was at the Bohs Ljubljana game in July and was sitting down near the main Bohs supporters section in the Jodi (near the Des Kelly stand). The level of hate and abuse on display was amazing (at least to me). The poor Ljubljana right back copped the most just for taking throw-ins - a couple of times people rushed from the stand trying to grab him (or maybe just to get close enough to give him some more abuse).

My point is this -this was not the kind of place for a family outing. Now people will say, then sit somewhere else, but to get to concession stands in Dalymount you have to walk past that section. The whole experience would definitely put me off going again, let alone bring children along

Anyway - just my 2cents

So a sanitized league where you can't stand up or say boo to the opposition is the way to go? No thanks.
I always find it amazing how a few hundred people in Tolka can create a better, more intimidating atmosphere against opposition with no following than Anfield or other premiership grounds with 30,000+ in them. And yes I've been to Premiership games. Actually stopped going because I can sit down and not shout at home.

Iago

Blured wrote: »

I am not talking about the odd bit of swearing here - you get that at all games be it Soccer, GAA, Rugby, whatever. This was full on hate/vile being poured out.

It's no different at games in the EPL to be honest.

Sparks43

No matter what the clubs do to improve themselves means nothing


The Fai would find a way to fcuk it up in the end

stovelid

Dalyer only has two side open to the public now and their singing support is in the corner of the Jodi so you;re going to hear stuff.

There is just as much hatred in every league including the EPL but you have more defined, stewarded family areas.

I've no problem with my kids seeing me viciously abuse players and officials. I know the line and I don't cross it.

Blured

Iago wrote: »

It's no different at games in the EPL to be honest.

Im sure it is - but England has the population to fill those grounds (most of them) mostly with men - not many families with young kids. The LOI is struggling for attendence - people suggested opening it up to families from the local communities - I just think that isnt an option currently because of the match day experience

bobbysands81

BOHtox wrote: »

Surprisingly, Celtic’s ground, Celtic Park, which is a huge draw for Irish fans, did not figure in the top 10 grounds.

Odd that because Celtic has 4,000-5,000 season ticket holders in Ireland... had a (very) quick look at the visitbritain site and it seems to be only attendances at Premier League games that they're quoting (unless I've completely missed it).

Iago

BOHtox wrote: »

Funny I should ask that as that's exactly what's being spent by Irish people going abroad to watch British football.

From the Irish times:

IRISH FOOTBALL fans spent approximately €145 million last year visiting Premier League grounds and made 164,000 visits, with an average spend of £776 (€884.64) each, according to VisitBritain, the UK’s state tourism agency.
The Irish accounted for one-in-five football fans who visited a Premier League ground from overseas last year. Though the Irish are by far the most popular visitors to Premier League grounds, a similar survey in 2008 found 267,000 Irish fans attended a match in the UK, so the numbers travelling (down almost 40 per cent) have clearly been hit by the recession.
In that year 400,000 Irish people visited a sporting event in the UK, which may be accounted for by the huge influx to Cheltenham and other race meetings every year.
The Premier League is arguably the most popular football league in the world and is beamed into 212 different territories with an audience reach of nearly four billion people.
Last year 750,000 overseas fans attended a Premier League ground. That was worth €678 million a year to the British economy. After Ireland, Norway (77,000), the US (56,000), the Netherlands (41,000) and Germany (39,000) provided the greatest number of visitors.
Unsurprisingly, Old Trafford, the home of Manchester United, was the most popular venue – attracting 114,000 visitors. This was followed by Anfield, the home of Liverpool, which attracted 89,000 visitors; Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium (88,000), Chelsea’s Stamford Bridge (54,000), and Tottenhams White Hart Lane (38,000).
Surprisingly, Celtic’s ground, Celtic Park, which is a huge draw for Irish fans, did not figure in the top 10 grounds.
Patricia Yates, the director of strategy and communication at VisitBritain, said the results showed the impact of a partnership between itself and the Premier League going back to 2008 with many footballers extolling the virtues of the country on the VisitBritain website.
“It has given us access to some of the stars of the British game who have promoted Britain to their fans back home – and encouraged them to come and visit,” she said

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/travel/2011/0903/1224303401548.html

Where would the LOI be with €145 million investment?
If divided up between the current 21 clubs that would mean that each club would get €6.9 million each. That's a lot of money. I presume that's around mid to low Championship level football.
Thoughts on the article and what it entails?

I don't think it entails what you think it entails.

The first problem, which has already been covered in this thread, is that the money spent is total money spent for the UK Exchequer. So it includes flights, accommodation, food, drink, tickets, merchandise and a very healthy percentage of tax. So if we take the overall €145 million figure, ticket sales (less VAT) are probably only worth around €5 million to clubs (at an average price of €30 ex. VAT)

The second issue is working out what the 164k trips actually means in terms of numbers of people, is it unique individuals or is it an aggregate view of all trips. If it's the latter then it's conceivable that it could be as little as five or even ten thousand people in total. If it's five thousand people and they all bought a season ticket to their nearest LOI club and the season ticket costs €200 (not sure if that's average or not) then it's only €1 million between the clubs in ticket sales. Even if it was 20,000 people in total and they all did the same thing it only equates to €4 million to LOI clubs, which isn't to be sniffed at, but is well below the money in the article.

The third issue is whether or not those people already go to LOI games, and if so how frequently and what do they already spend as that needs to be taken away from the total. The secondary point of that is that some of those people will just never go to LOI games, even if there was no other option available and open to them.

All told I think that LOI clubs would be lucky to see in excess of €5 million between them annually even if nobody ever went to the UK to watch football matches. Some of that amount they already receive from people who currently do both, so the net impact would be lessened again.

bobbysands81

Iago wrote: »

I don't think it entails what you think it entails.

The first problem, which has already been covered in this thread, is that the money spent is total money spent for the UK Exchequer. So it includes flights, accommodation, food, drink, tickets, merchandise and a very healthy percentage of tax. So if we take the overall €145 million figure, ticket sales (less VAT) are probably only worth around €5 million to clubs (at an average price of €30 ex. VAT)

The second issue is working out what the 164k trips actually means in terms of numbers of people, is it unique individuals or is it an aggregate view of all trips. If it's the latter then it's conceivable that it could be as little as five or even ten thousand people in total. If it's five thousand people and they all bought a season ticket to their nearest LOI club and the season ticket costs €200 (not sure if that's average or not) then it's only €1 million between the clubs in ticket sales. Even if it was 20,000 people in total and they all did the same thing it only equates to €4 million to LOI clubs, which isn't to be sniffed at, but is well below the money in the article.

The third issue is whether or not those people already go to LOI games, and if so how frequently and what do they already spend as that needs to be taken away from the total. The secondary point of that is that some of those people will just never go to LOI games, even if there was no other option available and open to them.

All told I think that LOI clubs would be lucky to see in excess of €5 million between them annually even if nobody ever went to the UK to watch football matches. Some of that amount they already receive from people who currently do both, so the net impact would be lessened again.

Article says that each person spends circa €885... the real question is how much of that is spent on tickets, in stadium (food, drinks, pies etc...) and in clubs superstore so probably about a tenth pf that figure - €88 per person per visit or an annual total from Ireland of €14.43 million (my completely unscientific 'guesstimate').

Iago

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Article says that each person spends circa €885... the real question is how much of that is spent on tickets, in stadium (food, drinks, pies etc...) and in clubs superstore so probably about a tenth pf that figure - €88 per person per visit or an annual total from Ireland of €14.43 million (my completely unscientific 'guesstimate').

Actually, you're right. How in gods name are people spending €885 per visit??? In fact some people are paying way way more than that, if you consider that most are spending way less.

I think €88 is probably a little on the high side, even on average. However if we take that as a starting point we need to equate that back to an LOI experience. How does the average ticket price compare, how many people will spend in the superstore of a local club etc. I think the figures are widely skewed by those who go to one game a year and buy everything in sight and they all include taxes and charges obviously.

NotorietyH

Iago wrote: »

Actually, you're right. How in gods name are people spending €885 per visit???

Because they're not. That's the average figure for the whole year.

farna_boy

Blured wrote: »

As some people have said I think attracting families from the local communities would be a good step. Making the match day more family friendly though is a big challenge.

I was at the Bohs Ljubljana game in July and was sitting down near the main Bohs supporters section in the Jodi (near the Des Kelly stand). The level of hate and abuse on display was amazing (at least to me). The poor Ljubljana right back copped the most just for taking throw-ins - a couple of times people rushed from the stand trying to grab him (or maybe just to get close enough to give him some more abuse).

My point is this -this was not the kind of place for a family outing. Now people will say, then sit somewhere else, but to get to concession stands in Dalymount you have to walk past that section. The whole experience would definitely put me off going again, let alone bring children along

Anyway - just my 2cents

dan1895 wrote: »

So a sanitized league where you can't stand up or say boo to the opposition is the way to go? No thanks.
I always find it amazing how a few hundred people in Tolka can create a better, more intimidating atmosphere against opposition with no following than Anfield or other premiership grounds with 30,000+ in them. And yes I've been to Premiership games. Actually stopped going because I can sit down and not shout at home.

There is a very easy way to fix the problem of not exposing families to the levels of abuse mentioned above and that is to set up a family enclosure! It was done out in Turners Cross and it has worked well. The family enclosure is pretty much at the opposite end of the ground to the shed, where most of the abuse comes from, and they have a drum and trumpet to help drown out some of the rest of the abuse if it comes to it.

I remember going out to the Cross a few years ago and there would be a regular crowd of 5000-8000 out there. City were doing well at the time and won the league that year but then ran into some problems that I really don't want to go in to.

Ok so the players wages were a little high then and maybe just a little more than we could afford but there was some very nice football being played out there. We played in Europe (to some degree) every year and like the rest of the clubs in the country, we came relatively close to qualifying for the competitions proper on a few occasions.

Now I know it all went horribly wrong a few years later, as it did for a few other clubs as well, but the football at the time gave me a glimpse of what could have been if the financial practises at the time had been more sustainable. There were a number of clubs that were knocking on the door of Europe and I believe that one of those clubs could have qualified sooner had people kept their heads screwed on. Shamrock Rovers have now finally done it ( and well done to them) but if one of the clubs had done it back then maybe all of us would be in a better position now.

Someone mentioned that the LoI could become a feeder league for the EPL and while I can see some benefit to this, it is a very dangerous game to play. City entered a similar agreement with Reading to this and ended up getting screwed when any player of promise was taken away immediately, without any players coming the other way. However, if it was possible to do it correctly, as mentioned previously, with young players coming over here on loan first before breaking into the first team or players looking for visas, it could give the LoI a well needed boost. With these type of players and investment, the LoI clubs could become regulars in Europe and EPL clubs would then also give their young players experience in European football, something that they won't get playing for some Championship club in England.

homerjay2005

BOHtox wrote: »

They probably included the likes of millionaires going over for a week and staying in a ****** star hotel and the likes. Getting a premium ticket etc.

private jets, strippers, hookers and cocaine also ffs......

and the majority of the spend isnt even football related. my season ticket costs me £532 a year plus cup games. the rest is spend on flights, transport and if i need/want, food and beer, which has nothing to do with the football at all.