Rip Off UCD

Yillan

I'm starting in UCD this month. It's my third college in Ireland and I'm looking at the student guide. A continuing theme within is that student life, specifically the administration, at UCD is geared towards taking money from the student at any possible opportunity.

For instance, I see that a replacement ID card in UCD costs €30 whereas in UL it was €6. Repeat exams in DIT were €60 for as many as you failed as distinct from €230 per module which is bananas.

Not bringing your student card to your exam is a €50 fine. This is a new idea for me entirely. You're freaking out about the exam, then you freak out that you have forgotten your student card and have to rush across campus for a temporary replacement and then they slap a €50 fine on you for good measure. Well that's compassion right there. Cheers UCD. It's just so unnecessary. Who would consciously fail to bring their ID to the exam and bring extra stress on themselves? The fine is set up as if some students remembered their card because they didn't want to be fined €50 which just isn't the case. You'll forget your card if you're flustered about an exam. Fining someone for being stressed is like The Samaritans charging premium rates for their calls.

Bringing a phone into the exam incurs a €50 penalty aswell, which I can understand as a deterrent, but it's just money again. Where did they even get that €50 number from? And then where does it go? Do UCD budget for a certain number of €50s that they hope to get from students? When a phone does go off, does it trigger a huge search involving five minutes of loud rustling. Does the invigilator that finds the phone get a percentage of the 'prize money'?

I read in another thread that UCD are heavily in debt, but I'm getting the impression that there's a lot of pulling out €50 bills and handing them over to the college as you make your way through your course. A bit like travelling Ryanair. It just strikes me as a horrible and really unjust way to run a college.

cozzie55

Yillan wrote: »

I'm starting in UCD this month. It's my third college in Ireland and I'm looking at the student guide. A continuing theme within is that student life, specifically the administration, at UCD is geared towards taking money from the student at any possible opportunity.

For instance, I see that a replacement ID card in UCD costs €30 whereas in UL it was €6. Repeat exams in DIT were €60 for as many as you failed as distinct from €230 per module which is bananas.

Not bringing your student card to your exam is a €50 fine. This is a new idea for me entirely. You're freaking out about the exam, then you freak out that you have forgotten your student card and have to rush across campus for a temporary replacement and then they slap a €50 fine on you for good measure. Well that's compassion right there. Cheers UCD. It's just so unnecessary. Who would consciously fail to bring their ID to the exam and bring extra stress on themselves? The fine is set up as if some students remembered their card because they didn't want to be fined €50 which just isn't the case. You'll forget your card if you're flustered about an exam. Fining someone for being stressed is like The Samaritans charging premium rates for their calls.

Bringing a phone into the exam incurs a €50 penalty aswell, which I can understand as a deterrent, but it's just money again. Where did they even get that €50 number from? And then where does it go? Do UCD budget for a certain number of €50s that they hope to get from students? When a phone does go off, does it trigger a huge search involving five minutes of loud rustling. Does the invigilator that finds the phone get a percentage of the 'prize money'?

I read in another thread that UCD are heavily in debt, but I'm getting the impression that there's a lot of pulling out €50 bills and handing them over to the college as you make your way through your course. A bit like travelling Ryanair. It just strikes me as a horrible and really unjust way to run a college.

i know it sounds like the charge for everything but i will stand up for the college in some sense.
There is one major advantage to setting the price to repeat at €230. A good few people in the college think along the same line as me on this. It is a major factor when sitting an exam knowing that if you fail it will cost €230. I know people in other colleges and universities who think nothing of failing exams as it only costs 60 quid to repeat. They tend to throw in the towel way before the exams for certain subjects and consider it an easier option to repeat the exam at a different date when they may not have as many/hard modules. I know this may not be a good enough argument for some people but to me it is one way to justify the cost.

I assume that the reason it costs so much is that UCD have to hire the RDS for exam periods the cost of which is substantial, for you to have to repeat your exam you are taking up a seat which could be used by a student sitting an exam for the first time and as a result the RDS has to be hired for longer periods. As far as I know trinity charge roughly the same for repeats, they again use the RDS for exams. In reality it costs UCD millions to have exams each year which they are obliged to do and they simply can't afford it.

As for the €50 fines they never get put into practice. The one for a mobile phone really only applies if your mobile rings during the exam if you are that stupid to leave your phone on then you deserve to be fined. I know they say that its a 50 quid fine to bring a mobile into the hall but if they fined everyone they would be bringing in millions in fines just from this alone every year.
As for forgetting your student card. Generally as long as you have some form of identification on you for the exam you won't be fined. You have to present yourself at some desk before the exam stating you have forgotten your student card but have a drivers licence etc.

delta_bravo

You haven't even began college yet and you're already moaning?

Yes repeats are dear. Prevent this cost by not failing your exams.

Yes a replacement card is dear. Prevent this cost by not having the need to replace it.

Again exam fines are completely preventable. I believe the money collected from those go towards the student hardship fund.

Life isn't always fair. Get yourself organised and you will not incur any of these costs.

AdamD

They all seem like pretty easy things to avoid.

UCD: Don't be a moron.

Yillan

delta_bravo wrote: »

You haven't even began college yet and you're already moaning?

Yes repeats are dear. Prevent this cost by not failing your exams.

Yes a replacement card is dear. Prevent this cost by not having the need to replace it.

Again exam fines are completely preventable. I believe the money collected from those go towards the student hardship fund.

Life isn't always fair. Get yourself organised and you will not incur any of these costs.

I'm glad you got to reply to my post with such a wonderful sense of your own superiority. I hope you enjoyed yourself.

People fail exams. People lose their cards. People are human and make mistakes. It seemed from reading the student guide that UCD were looking to profit from these mistakes. If the exam fines go towards the student hardship fund then that's great. Repeat exams are expensive and I see the pros and cons of this aswell.

I'm not moaning, but simply asking if my initial impression was correct and the college was out to get our money by way of fines. If a lot of these fines are not actually enforced then I suppose they aren't.

unknown13

Yillan wrote: »

People fail exams. People lose their cards. People are human and make mistakes. It seemed from reading the student guide that UCD were looking to profit from these mistakes. If the exam fines go towards the student hardship fund then that's great. Repeat exams are expensive and I see the pros and cons of this aswell.

The pros outweigh the cons more when dealing with high repeat exams fees. The lectures would regularly have more people in them, there would be a good level of attendance at labs and tutorials. Also students would put more effort into their assignments because they want to get as near as possible to the 40% before the actual exam.

Yillan wrote: »

I'm not moaning, but simply asking if my initial impression was correct and the college was out to get our money by way of fines. If a lot of these fines are not actually enforced then I suppose they aren't.

You were moaning, your in a place that is different to the colleges you have been to and now that there is money at stake for messing up, you have decided to go on a long rant about it. If this thread was created in early January then people would be more willing to accept your points for moaning.

jan shyr

The thing about student card is that even if you don't loose it, it may not last 4 to 6 years. Mine after two years, is pretty worn off and has a serious crack in that black strip which I glued. Perhaps I should have kept the old one for printing and library. Good thing it still works in the library.

As for forgetting your student card. Generally as long as you have some form of identification on you for the exam you won't be fined. You have to present yourself at some desk before the exam stating you have forgotten your student card but have a drivers licence etc.

Not true. Invigilators only accept student cards. Unless he or she has not been informed about rules that student card is the only acceptable form of identification. In that case person who forgot student card is rather lucky (not that I heard it happen to anyone but I know that my classmate had to pay 50e fine for not having student card).

Sibylla

Some of the replies here are quite harsh. The OP is perfectly right to point this out. Student cards do not last forever and people can fail exams for numerous reasons. Illness, bereavement. College is expensive enough. It doesn't make sense for UCD to charge so much more than everywhere else.

Raphael

jan shyr wrote: »

The thing about student card is that even if you don't loose it, it may not last 4 to 6 years. Mine after two years, is pretty worn off and has a serious crack in that black strip which I glued. Perhaps I should have kept the old one for printing and library. Good thing it still works in the library.


Not true. Invigilators only accept student cards. Unless he or she has not been informed about rules that student card is the only acceptable form of identification. In that case person who forgot student card is rather lucky (not that I heard it happen to anyone but I know that my classmate had to pay 50e fine for not having student card).

If you go into them and say it's falling to bits, they might replace it. Worked for a mate of mine.

Sibylla wrote: »

Some of the replies here are quite harsh. The OP is perfectly right to point this out. Student cards do not last forever and people can fail exams for numerous reasons. Illness, bereavement. College is expensive enough. It doesn't make sense for UCD to charge so much more than everywhere else.

Extenuating circumstances allows a non-charged, uncapped repeat. The one you pay for is just if you failed it for no good reason.

the_big_shmoke

Yillan wrote: »

I'm starting in UCD this month. It's my third college in Ireland and I'm looking at the student guide. A continuing theme within is that student life, specifically the administration, at UCD is geared towards taking money from the student at any possible opportunity.

For instance, I see that a replacement ID card in UCD costs €30 whereas in UL it was €6. Repeat exams in DIT were €60 for as many as you failed as distinct from €230 per module which is bananas.

Not bringing your student card to your exam is a €50 fine. This is a new idea for me entirely. You're freaking out about the exam, then you freak out that you have forgotten your student card and have to rush across campus for a temporary replacement and then they slap a €50 fine on you for good measure. Well that's compassion right there. Cheers UCD. It's just so unnecessary. Who would consciously fail to bring their ID to the exam and bring extra stress on themselves? The fine is set up as if some students remembered their card because they didn't want to be fined €50 which just isn't the case. You'll forget your card if you're flustered about an exam. Fining someone for being stressed is like The Samaritans charging premium rates for their calls.

Bringing a phone into the exam incurs a €50 penalty aswell, which I can understand as a deterrent, but it's just money again. Where did they even get that €50 number from? And then where does it go? Do UCD budget for a certain number of €50s that they hope to get from students? When a phone does go off, does it trigger a huge search involving five minutes of loud rustling. Does the invigilator that finds the phone get a percentage of the 'prize money'?

I read in another thread that UCD are heavily in debt, but I'm getting the impression that there's a lot of pulling out €50 bills and handing them over to the college as you make your way through your course. A bit like travelling Ryanair. It just strikes me as a horrible and really unjust way to run a college.

i'd love to be at ucd u moaning douche!

Yillan

the_big_shmoke wrote: »

i'd love to be at ucd u moaning douche!

There's probably a very good reason why you're not

smalls

I Just graduated from UCD after three years of paying over the top for nearly everything and getting a less personal and caring experience with the staff and people who are supposed to be there to help you... surely if they are going to charge so much in comparison to other colleges in the country for everything, they should deliver he service with more respect, caringness and even pretending to pay full attention to each student.

Witcher

smalls wrote: »

I Just graduated from UCD after three years of paying over the top for nearly everything and getting a less personal and caring experience with the staff and people who are supposed to be there to help you... surely if they are going to charge so much in comparison to other colleges in the country for everything, they should deliver he service with more respect, caringness and even pretending to pay full attention to each student.

You sound like you expected hugs off the lecturers for your money:pac:

smalls

haha def not... even a response to an email! not much to ask when u pay 230 euro to repeat a class

the_big_shmoke

Yillan wrote: »

There's probably a very good reason why you're not[/QUOTE

is not gettin enuf points 4 my course a very good reason?:p

Witcher

smalls wrote: »

haha def not... even a response to an email! not much to ask when u pay 230 euro to repeat a class

Yeah, that type of thing makes it all a bit impersonal, probably just par for the course with the size of UCD:)

Killer Pigeon

Did you find this out before or after you applied to UCD?

smalls

me? after, but they also introduced fees as the time went on, the exam regualtions in regards to the student card is new etc...

Laserhead

30 Euro for a replacement student card seems beyond excessive to me. They can't cost more than a tenner to make and the idea that I'm not going to lose it, damage it, or have it stolen at some point in the next three years is pretty damn naive. The idea of paying 230 if I fail a module (which I certainly hope I won't) is also an extra stress I could really do without.

That said, I knew this was the case when I put UCD down on my CAO, and I'm hoping the teaching, the people and the craic will make the cost worth it.

Killer Pigeon

Due to education cut, free-fees for EU student and a slump in international ranking, which means less full-fee paying foreign students coming to the college, UCD has been forced to turn into a corporation.

NeuroCat

Was just browsing this forum and thought I'd give an outside perspective. I'm in Trinity and it really does seem that the invigilators can be slightly impersonal in UCD. Granted the rules are there for a reason but common sense does seem to prevail in most cases. If someone forgets their student card they are asked their date of birth and they are allowed sit the exam without paying a fine if they provide the correct information.

Also, there is no fee for repeating exams in Trinity. Not sure how this is catered for, but I would assume it's due to the fact that the repeat exams are held on the Trinity campus and not in the RDS.

Also, I was told that after 45 mins you cannot enter an exam in UCD (granted if you're running 45 mins late for a 3 hour exam you'd be in a spot of bother even if you were allowed sit it). I know in Trinity if you are running extremely late, if you run to your tutor straight away they can call to the exam centre and find out if anyone has left the exam and if not, you may be allowed sit the exam in the presence of your tutor (However this all depends on whether or not your tutor would volunteer themselves to supervise)

GobBass

I'll be sensible for now because its early in the morning and say it sounds like you knew what you were getting yourself into.

Annasopra

most of those costs are easily avoidable

triseke

I've just graduated from UCD, after spending 5 years there (degree, then masters) and I have to say, I didn't lose my card once, never failed an exam, and generally had no fines to pay. It can be done.

And people that say that the UCD staff are impersonal and uncaring, maybe the ones that you dealt with were, but within both my degree and masters, the staff were wonderful and caring people who really helped me out when I needed it.

I'm exceptionally glad I went to UCD, I had a ball and i'm honestly going to miss the place this year.

CramCycle

NeuroCat wrote: »

Also, I was told that after 45 mins you cannot enter an exam in UCD (granted if you're running 45 mins late for a 3 hour exam you'd be in a spot of bother even if you were allowed sit it). I know in Trinity if you are running extremely late, if you run to your tutor straight away they can call to the exam centre and find out if anyone has left the exam and if not, you may be allowed sit the exam in the presence of your tutor (However this all depends on whether or not your tutor would volunteer themselves to supervise)

In UCD you would go straight to the head exam guy (can't remember his name) but he is an extremely nice guy in the RDS and explain your situation, if he believes your reason/excuse and no one has left yet you will be put in with the X students at the end of the hall and given your full 3 hours, happens a bit with students sleeping in or running late due to traffic/illness etc. It is at his discretion and there will be a note on your file in case someone questions the believability of your results. He may have a small QandA with you if there are any issues (your not believable/people have already left etc).

I think people are getting the wrong impression as they are alot more easy going than you'd think, of course there are tool's of invigilators but generally if you go up to the main group at the beginning and explain about your card etc, I have never seen an issue being raised, unless of course you are a dick in which case they will definitely fine you but in most cases you will be fine (disclaimer: not all, obviously).

My student card had a picture of an inflatable sheep, I had not thought this through and I became known at the student desk "as that guy with the picture" but no one minded at exams when I explained I was messing at registration.

dyl10

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Due to education cut, free-fees for EU student and a slump in international ranking, which means less full-fee paying foreign students coming to the college, UCD has been forced to turn into a corporation.

It was turning into a corporation long before that.

The pros outweigh the cons more when dealing with high repeat exams fees. The lectures would regularly have more people in them, there would be a good level of attendance at labs and tutorials. Also students would put more effort into their assignments because they want to get as near as possible to the 40% before the actual exam.

There is one major advantage to setting the price to repeat at €230. A good few people in the college think along the same line as me on this. It is a major factor when sitting an exam knowing that if you fail it will cost €230. I know people in other colleges and universities who think nothing of failing exams as it only costs 60 quid to repeat. They tend to throw in the towel way before the exams for certain subjects and consider it an easier option to repeat the exam at a different date when they may not have as many/hard modules. I know this may not be a good enough argument for some people but to me it is one way to justify the cost.

It would be interesting to see figures on whether either of the above points stand up. I believe attendances are still falling with regard to the first point.
With regard to the second, I would be surprised if less people failed in UCD than in other universities. I would imagine the €230 is something of an optimum fee that most wealthy UCD students can afford to pay, rather than a threshold fee that acts as a big disincentive.

I've posted on this topic before but I think the repeat fee is exorbitant, although, its probably not to those who don't worry about money.
People seem to never mention the students who fail through having a lower level of ability. There are courses out there that are difficult and there are courses that should be more difficult.

Perhaps this repeat fee puts more pressure on teaching faculty to use bell-curving or make their modules more passable. If there was no repeat fee lecturers could simply argue that their students who fail need to get up to a higher level; try that with the financial penalty that we have.

The repeat fee could actually be promoting lower standards.

Raphael

the_big_shmoke wrote: »

i'd love to be at ucd u moaning douche!

Have a months ban. Abuse is against the charter, as is not reading the charter.

Pandoras Twist

They are stupidity taxes. Better to raise funds through punishing things which can be easily avoided than to cut funding from other areas, particularly as the funds go towards student support.

As mentioned, extenuating circumstances will allow you to take a free, uncapped repeat if there were circumstances outside of your control. Other than that, its your own fault for failing an exam and perhaps paying 230 quid for a repeat might make you study harder next time.

I am an utter scatterbrain and I've lost about 3 or 4 student cards since the 30 euro charge came in, but I know its my own fault and I take a lot better care of them as a result of it.

Killer Pigeon

NeuroCat wrote: »

Was just browsing this forum and thought I'd give an outside perspective. I'm in Trinity and it really does seem that the invigilators can be slightly impersonal in UCD. Granted the rules are there for a reason but common sense does seem to prevail in most cases. If someone forgets their student card they are asked their date of birth and they are allowed sit the exam without paying a fine if they provide the correct information.

Well the thing is, there have been cases during UCD exams where students have gotten others to sit their exams for them. It wouldn't be too hard for someone to memorise some simple bits of information, such as one's date of birth. This is why they're very strict about it and that you require a student card in the exam because it is a form of photo-ID.

NeuroCat wrote: »

Also, there is no fee for repeating exams in Trinity. Not sure how this is catered for, but I would assume it's due to the fact that the repeat exams are held on the Trinity campus and not in the RDS.

Yes, it would be primarily because repeat exams are held at the same time as normal exams in the RDS. This wasn't always the case. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a money-making element to it as well.

NeuroCat wrote: »

Also, I was told that after 45 mins you cannot enter an exam in UCD (granted if you're running 45 mins late for a 3 hour exam you'd be in a spot of bother even if you were allowed sit it). I know in Trinity if you are running extremely late, if you run to your tutor straight away they can call to the exam centre and find out if anyone has left the exam and if not, you may be allowed sit the exam in the presence of your tutor (However this all depends on whether or not your tutor would volunteer themselves to supervise)

You see there are a multitude of different exams held in the same hall at the same time. Usually there is an hours break between exams, where staff/ invigilators need to prepare the hall for the next exam season. It would be a bit unfair on the staff if they needed to unset procedure just to cater for one student who, by their own fault, was late.

jan shyr

Also, I was told that after 45 mins you cannot enter an exam in UCD (granted if you're running 45 mins late for a 3 hour exam you'd be in a spot of bother even if you were allowed sit it). I know in Trinity if you are running extremely late, if you run to your tutor straight away they can call to the exam centre and find out if anyone has left the exam and if not, you may be allowed sit the exam in the presence of your tutor (However this all depends on whether or not your tutor would volunteer themselves to supervise)

Who is this tutor??? There has been plenty of times when not one of my lectures has been during the exam and other times they simply don't know that I am one of their students due to classes so big.

Besides being late by 45 mins isn't really acceptable. They are exams after all. One can get up a bit early. Plenty of people are just lazy. This was the case during the winter exams when peopl living near UCD were complaining and wanted exams to cancel (last day was cancelled, had to sit that exam in second semester). Of course there will always be unfortunate people who will be late through no fault of their own.

Fad

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Yes, it would be primarily because repeat exams are held at the same time as normal exams in the RDS. This wasn't always the case. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a money-making element to it as well.

Not all are held off campus, have had two repeats from two separate schools on campus (Both at the end of semester period).