Born to Run; Are shoes actually damaging?

nellocono

Folks,
I have just read the book 'Born to Run' about the tarahumara tribe in Mexico who run in Togas and bits of sandals strapped to their feet. And it got me thinking, especially seeing as since the runner was introduced by Nike back in the day, running injuries have not gone away and probably increased.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-painful-truth-trainers-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html

So what are your opinions on the matter?

menoscemo

Yawn.

This has been done about a million times. Use the search function.

TheRoadRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

Yawn.

This has been done about a million times. Use the search function.

+1

OP do you mind me asking are you new to running? Because 99.99% of people that I know who run barefoot are all new comers to running and 99.999999% of them end up getting injured from it.

Yes there is something to bare foot running but you'd probably have to never worn shoes from an early age for you feet and leg muscles to be developed properly for it. Just my observations.

nellocono

Sorry I asked, I dont go and trawl through threads before posting every thread

TheRoadRunner

nellocono wrote: »

Sorry I asked, I dont go and trawl through threads before posting every thread

We accept your apology

Seriously though, this topic comes up regularly.

donothoponpop

nellocono wrote: »

Folks,
I have just read the book 'Born to Run' about the tarahumara tribe in Mexico who run in Togas and bits of sandals strapped to their feet. And it got me thinking, especially seeing as since the runner was introduced by Nike back in the day, running injuries have not gone away and probably increased.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-painful-truth-trainers-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html

So what are your opinions on the matter?

Barefoot running was invented by Zola Budd back in 1984. Since then, thousands of top athletes have cast off their shoes, and every single world record, at all distances, has been run barefoot. This proves that barefoot running will make you a better runner.

tunney

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

+1

OP do you mind me asking are you new to running? Because 99.99% of people that I know who run barefoot are all new comers to running and 99.999999% of them end up getting injured from it.

Yes there is something to bare foot running but you'd probably have to never worn shoes from an early age for you feet and leg muscles to be developed properly for it. Just my observations.

i started to run barefoot after a good few years - never for long and never on concrete but when at or near racing weight I found it helped my form.

TheRoadRunner

tunney wrote: »

i started to run barefoot after a good few years - never for long and never on concrete but when at or near racing weight I found it helped my form.

Yeah I could see how it might help somebody who is in good shape with no major injury problems etc. the majority of people I know who try it though are relative new comers who are generally heavier than a good race weight and end up wrecking their legs.

nellocono

Reason I asked actually was because while I am relatively new to running, I am thinking maybe I should move to a light weight type running shoe, something like the Nike Free (or maybe Lunar Glide which is more cushioned I know..)

I am a light weight type runner and am of good health etc.

gerard65

Depends on what your wearing up to now - ie dont go from wearing something like asics kayano's (high cushion) to something like nike free immed. If you want to go more lightweight/less cushion, come down slowly. I started with kayanos, then went to 2140's and am now down to adidas supernova sequence. I have a pair on nike luners up next. I have also changed my foot strike from heal strike to more flat/fore foot. So far so good but its taken 18 months up to now.

tunney

nellocono wrote: »

Reason I asked actually was because while I am relatively new to running, I am thinking maybe I should move to a light weight type running shoe, something like the Nike Free (or maybe Lunar Glide which is more cushioned I know..)

I am a light weight type runner and am of good health etc.

Go on what's light weight?
Height, weight and sex.

I find people think they are light when in reality all they are doing is comparing themselves to an obese society in general.

nellocono

Height = 5' 11
Weight = 11 stone soaking wet
Male

I am currently wearing Saucony triumph 6 which are heavily enough cushioned but am lining up Nike Lunarglides next I think...

menoscemo

nellocono wrote: »

I am currently wearing Saucony triumph 6 which are heavily enough cushioned but am lining up Nike Lunarglides next I think...

According to Runners world the Triumph 6 are 11.1 oz. The Lunarglides are the same weight. I wouldn't consider the lunarglides very minimalist and they have loads of cushioning. The only thing in their favour is that they have a slightly less heel to toe drop than many cushioned shoes.

If you are trying to go more minimalist try something like the Saucony Kinvara...

menoscemo

menoscemo wrote: »

If you are trying to go more minimalist try something like the Saucony Kinvara...

+1 for Kinvara. Light shoe with low heel to toe drop but yet still pretty cushioned. Unlikely to injure yourself with them which cannot be said for going with something like Vibrams or even Nike Free (depending on which model). That "Born to run" book has started a debate and is a good enough read but has caused more problems if anything, imo.

SM01

If you're interested in reading more about barefoot running there's an extensive and long-running debate about it on the following forum that's very interesting but very detailed. Born to Run is a great read but personally I'd be very wary of casting off my 2150s and running barefoot - it's not something to be taken lightly.

http://www.podiatry-arena.com/

liamo123

SM01 wrote: »

If you're interested in reading more about barefoot running there's an extensive and long-running debate about it on the following forum that's very interesting but very detailed. Born to Run is a great read but personally I'd be very wary of casting off my 2150s and running barefoot - it's not something to be taken lightly.

http://www.podiatry-arena.com/

Its time u upgraded to the 2160's SM01 :eek:

AngryLips

In my experience your choice of runners is absolutely critical to your propensity to running-related injuries both from personal experience and from the experience shared with me by fellow runners.

However, that's in no way an endorsement of any particular shoe type, be it minimalist, barefoot or high-support runners. Ultimately it depends on what's right for you based on how you run/walk and what you're used to running/walking in before. Your body will need time to adapt to any new type of runner so making a change from one extreme to another will only ensure you end up with a massive physio bill at the end of it.

As for how different types influence performance I honestly have no idea. What I can say for myself is that I knocked 9 minutes off my half marathon PB when I switched to a minimalist runner. Though I'm not 100% convinced that this wasn't just a total coincidence.

Happy running.

tunney

AngryLips wrote: »

In my experience your choice of runners is absolutely critical to your propensity to running-related injuries both from personal experience and from the experience shared with me by fellow runners.

However, that's in no way an endorsement of any particular shoe type, be it minimalist, barefoot or high-support runners. Ultimately it depends on what's right for you based on how you run/walk and what you're used to running/walking in before. Your body will need time to adapt to any new type of runner so making a change from one extreme to another will only ensure you end up with a massive physio bill at the end of it.

As for how different types influence performance I honestly have no idea. What I can say for myself is that I knocked 9 minutes off my half marathon PB when I switched to a minimalist runner. Though I'm not 100% convinced that this wasn't just a total coincidence.

Happy running.

its well know that saving 50g per shoe saves 25 seconds per km.

heffsarmy

tunney wrote: »

its well know that saving 50g per shoe saves 25 seconds per km.

Alot of well know facts are not true also, you will run faster in lighter runners no doubt.


If someone ran a marathon in 2hrs 35mins approx (pace 3.40min per km) in a pair of trainers weighing 10.5 ounce (298grams approx). They could expect to run a world record marathon in 2hrs approx (pace 2.50min per km) in a pair of racers 7ounce (198grams approx)

tunney

heffsarmy wrote: »

Alot of well know facts are not true also, you will run faster in lighter runners no doubt.


If someone ran a marathon in 2hrs 35mins approx (pace 3.40min per km) in a pair of trainers weighing 10.5 ounce (298grams approx). They could expect to run a world record marathon in 2hrs approx (pace 2.50min per km) in a pair of racers 7ounce (198grams approx)

I was of course taking the piss.

heffsarmy

tunney wrote: »

I was of course taking the piss.

You had to be

TheRoadRunner

heffsarmy wrote: »

If someone ran a marathon in 2hrs 35mins approx (pace 3.40min per km) in a pair of trainers weighing 10.5 ounce (298grams approx). They could expect to run a world record marathon in 2hrs approx (pace 2.50min per km) in a pair of racers 7ounce (198grams approx)

I had a conversation with a knob jockey a couple of years ago at a wedding about running shoe weights. He was waffling on for ages telling me how I was wasting my time wearing the shoes I was wearing as they were too heavy and singing the virtues of his light weight shoes etc bladdy bladdy blah.

I pointed out to him that the loss of 2 stone from his beer belly and fat arse would be more beneficial than any light weight shoe. A bit mean of course but sometime the truth hurts

I always wondered how much benefit you gain from wearing racers versus normal heavy running trainers. I definitely feel lighter in racers but anything over 10k and I run the risk of getting injured. I don't train in racers at all so it's an awful shock to the legs when I race in them.

BTH

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I don't train in racers at all so it's an awful shock to the legs when I race in them.

Would it not make sense to occasionally train in racers? Be it just to intervals or a recovery run every fortnight, so that its not such a shock to the legs on race day?

tombliboo83

The minimalist approach is beginning to interest me. Was planning on a pair of terra plana evo2 and using them maybe once a week, does anybody hear wear them? My mate is up to a half marathon in them and loves them

PaulieC

Go for it, but remember that you will probably have to change your running style away from landing on your heel to your mid/forefoot. The biggest thing I found was having the patience to relearn without doing too much too soon. Good luck !

TheRoadRunner

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

Would it not make sense to occasionally train in racers? Be it just to intervals or a recovery run every fortnight, so that its not such a shock to the legs on race day?

Yes it would make sense. I use to do my intervals and faster reps in racers but got out of that routine over the years.

tombliboo83

tombliboo83 wrote: »

The minimalist approach is beginning to interest me. Was planning on a pair of terra plana evo2 and using them maybe once a week, does anybody hear wear them? My mate is up to a half marathon in them and loves them

bit of a ripoff price though... those terra.

http://barefootjosh.blogspot.com/2010/03/gear-review-mizuno-wave-universe-3.html

get these for a lot cheaper