Should school uniforms be abolished ?

zenno

I think the past boom years have infectiously made everyone so uppedy that they think a child should wear a suit to school nowadays or close to a suit with tie. What bloody difference does it make what the kid wears once they are clean. All this garbage of having kids wear uniforms is old-fart generation and out of date. Parents should be more interested in dressing their kids with comfortable cloth-wear than going on like the jones's.

A form of clothing is not going to make your child any smarter or better than anyone else. I train 3 times a week in a clean tracksuit so am i a scumbag or car robber ?. This blame on tracksuits of which is only clothing do not tell or say anything about a person. I think it's time people worked on some education themselves and learned that clothes do not make you who you are it's your brain that does that, and if you don't understand this then you need further education if possible.

Witcher

As long as the kid has their head down in the books actually learning sh1t then wtf does it matter what they're wearing?

Non uniform days are one of the greatest joys in school...especially when you're doing a practical subject like construction studies..it is so much easier than normal...you are not meant to cut timber in a shirt and tie.

Feathers

Following on from the people who are saying it's to teach kids how to wear a uniform later in life, should we not have them in medical scrubs or Gardaí uniform so? I'd much prefer these people were on form in work than some guy in a bank.

There's a great TED talk by Ken Robinson basically talking about how the industrial era was about instilling conformity into people, but what we're calling the information age and a knowledge economy requires innovation (essentially the polar opposite of conformity).

I can see why schools want a uniform as being much less hassle - no having to judge certain clothes for being inappropriate. But no reason why it can't be blue jeans and a white polo shirt. I know of no-one who pays more attention to anything when they're physically uncomfortable.

RetailChick

We choose a school for our son that has a uniform and a school tracksuit for PE days (2 per week)..........we didn't choose the school for that reason alone obviously it was just a bonus! I never minded wearing a school uniform, I liked that there was no issues over brands etc and you were on a level field with peers.

Lot of emphasis being put on the expense of a uniform, they don't have to cost a fortune. As it turns out when we went to the first parent meeting we discovered that the uniform for the school was only available by one supplier in the area as the crest is stictched into the jumper and the tracksuit top.............we went expecting it to cost a bomb!

We ended up getting the full uniform including 2 shirts, the full tracksuit, including 2 polo shirts (these have the school crest stiched on them also) for €86.I thought that was really reasonable considering it's what he'll be wearing for a year or more everyday!

FinnLizzy

I went to a primary school with no uniforms and believe me, the strawmen that the previous posts mentioned were few and far between.

This B/S of "if we let kids wear what they want, they will be bullied for being poor, they will take ages picking out what to wear, it will be a strain on the parents poket".

I went to a secondary school with uniforms, and it was my first time wearing a school uniform. Itchy, ****ty slack pockets and it's hardly going to cut down on the price of washing up and cloths in general, considering I take if off the second I get home!

Kids aren't as stupid as you think. They wear what they want every other day, and I'm sure an insecure pre-teen girl would feel insecure enough about her appearance without having to wear some horrible geansaí.

Xios

I dress awesome!

paddyandy

The Fashion Industries are Tyrannical the way they watch everything .

Boombastic

Schools have lost the run of themselves with the price of uniforms and specific dress codes. Many children around the world are not required to wear uniforms, yet as adults manage to wear work uniforms if required.


The design of the uniforms in Ireland are not child friendly.

JupiterKid

What surprises me is that the uniforms for many schools have not changed whatsoever with the times and that some school uniforms are the exact same as they were 30 plus years ago. This is ridiculous.

I think school uniforms are a hangover from the Victorian era and either need to be scrapped or updated. I have no big issue with them and can see the pros and cons of them but at least if schools are to keep them they should put some thought in keeping them modern and comfortable.

Look at the way that the tie for men since 2000 is gradually going out of fashion - they way that the men's hat did about 45 years ago - shouldn't school uniforms follow suit? Excuse the pun...:pac:

michellie

I actually saw a advert for a printing company in waterford on facebook who will print the schools crest onto cheaper uniforms, great idea !

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

michellie wrote: »

I actually saw a advert for a printing company in waterford on facebook who will print the schools crest onto cheaper uniforms, great idea !

Interesting point: if the whole idea is to stop brand-awareness (is that was a serious issue, why not ban advertising aimed at kids and limit media targetting? No? Oh, okay then...) then why bother with a crest at all? White t-shirt, blue sweater, grey pants, that dont all have to be the same shade.

A strict dress code, I can understand - and it will do everything that covers tha main points of the pro-uniform cam - but specific uniforms are pointless.

Scruffles

make em go to school in a potato sack and nicks/dunlop/ascot/hi tech trainers,that will teach them more than mainstream schools seem to these days.

Osmosis Jones

I think the uniforms should be gotten rid of, even just a dress code. We had to buy a 70 quid jacket with the school crest that was only allowed to be used to walk into the school because we arent allowed wear coats in class, and if we wear normal jackets in the gates they get taken from us, so stupid:rolleyes:.

Father Damo

hondasam wrote: »

NO because there would be to much competition on who was wearing what everyday.

What a load of old pony that arguement is. Sure if the kid is going to get hassled on their clothes brands they will get it outside of school anyway so what difference does that one make. The uniform rule is some sort of outdated thinking of instilling moral discipline by a strict adherence to correct attire.

Its a school, not the fcuking army. Most teachers who find themselves appointed as the uniform monitor are narcissistic bell ends and, from my experience in one case, probable closted paedophiles, who take out their own bully tormented childhood on kids who cant argue back to them. **** of the highest order.

I dont know if they should be the rule or not. Not in school so I dont really care.

Jester252

No. Uniforms help provide order in the school.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jester252 wrote: »

No. Uniforms help provide order in the school.

And yet people wonder why the Irish don't like choice, new ideas, individuality or creativity.

Fuinseog

Iomib wrote: »

School uniforms are very expensive, Most secondary schools these days require crested jumpers that are €60 each, Skirts that are €50 each, This is huge burden on parents. Ireland must only have school uniforms because the uk have them, No country in mainland europe has school uniforms.

uniforms are not expensive. I know some schools where the shirt cost ten euros. if they wear a normal shirt how much would that cost?

Sea Filly

stovelid wrote: »

No but kids should be able to wear generic uniforms and not ones with crests and the like. Or the school provides the crest and you can sew it on yourself.

Really good idea.

Dyr

Fuinseog wrote: »

uniforms are not expensive. I know some schools where the shirt cost ten euros. if they wear a normal shirt how much would that cost?

uh huh

http://www.thejournal.ie/graphic-of-the-day-barnardos-school-costs-survey-541332-Aug2012/

AMCCORK

There should be school uniforms ( At least there is no choice every morning I can't focus on getting myself dressed in the morning never mind having to select clothes for the kids or do battle over their selections every morning) but they should be the standard colours of grey navy etc that can be bought in Dunnes or Penneys or Tesco etc. I have just spent €410 on school uniform for 1st year because it is a non generic colour, style and crest so have no choice ( and I have to buy the whole lot as nothing since last year). I could have bought generic for under €100. Books will come to around €450 ( I have priced online but not purchased yet). I have already paid a deposit of €200 and there is another €200 due for activities, €120 for shoes and runners and I am guessing another €200 for school bags stationery and any other sports or after school activities that might start so approx €1,500 to go in the door in September.

Fuinseog

Bambi wrote: »

uh huh

http://www.thejournal.ie/graphic-of-the-day-barnardos-school-costs-survey-541332-Aug2012/

the media have their own agenda here. I am talking from my personal experience of working in schools. the trousers the kids wear are the cheapest of the cheap. the shoes they get in pennys.
Aldi has special offers on school uniforms at the moment.


what I do notice, even in the so called posh schools is that the kids often go around in uniforms that could be best described as rags- holes in jumper, scuffed shoes, ripped grey trousers.


yet in civvies many of these kids only wear designer labels.

Fuinseog

Bambi wrote: »

uh huh

http://www.thejournal.ie/graphic-of-the-day-barnardos-school-costs-survey-541332-Aug2012/

I just read your article and laughed out loud. parents are going without food cos the uniforms are so expensive. not since the famine has such destitution been seen.

Dyr

Fuinseog wrote: »

I just read your article and laughed out loud. parents are going without food cos the uniforms are so expensive. not since the famine has such destitution been seen.

It's my article? it's not my article it's meedja's article, and it's bernardo's research, feel free to take issue with either and let us know how you get on.

bottom line here folks, if there's to be a uniform at all at all, it should be the national standard one for all schools and cheap as chips, pullover and tracksuit bottoms or slacks. if schools want to flog a crest for it by all means but even that should be optional

time to move on from the middle class, curtain twitching lad's

Fuinseog

Bambi wrote: »

It's my article? it's not my article it's meedja's article, and it's bernardo's research, feel free to take issue with either and let us know how you get on.

bottom line here folks, if there's to be a uniform at all at all, it should be the national standard one for all schools and cheap as chips, pullover and tracksuit bottoms or slacks. if schools want to flog a crest for it by all means but even that should be optional

time to move on from the middle class, curtain twitching lad's

well, I give you cheaper than chips. two euro for a pair of trousers

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_22851.htm


8 euro for a pair of shoes! a bit pricey
http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_22861.htm

i think part of the problem is that some folk do not know what a household budget is. they know in advance that there will be extra expenditure in septmeber so the logical thing to do would be to save for it.

i would love to know where bernardos got its info from.

Lollipops23

I agree with keeping uniforms, but the fact that they're so specific completely undermines the whole reasoning for them.

They need to allow parents to buy any grey trousers/skirts/pinnies and whatever colour jumper is needed and iron on the crests. That way you'd get your entire thing for approx €30-€40 (inc €5 crest).

It's not rocket science. I despise the way parents are taken advantage of during the back to school season and at xmas (FYI, I'm not a parent, but I know various people with kids of different ages).

skywalker

St.Spodo wrote: »

I'm in favour of no uniforms. If the parents are dirt poor, tell the kids to become hipsters. They can maintain an air of superiority while wearing rags.

It hasnt come to that, damnit it'l never come to that!

paddyandy

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

And yet people wonder why the Irish don't like choice, new ideas, individuality or creativity.

Not true at all ikky .People can find individuality in conformity and always have done .

phasers

Fuinseog wrote: »

well, I give you cheaper than chips. two euro for a pair of trousers

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_22851.htm


8 euro for a pair of shoes! a bit pricey
http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_22861.htm

i think part of the problem is that some folk do not know what a household budget is. they know in advance that there will be extra expenditure in septmeber so the logical thing to do would be to save for it.

i would love to know where bernardos got its info from.

A lot of people can't afford to put hundreds of euro aside for uniforms! and yes, it is hundreds in some cases.

in a lot of girls secondary schools you have to wear a kilt with a specific pattern. Mine cost 45 quid and it was such crappy quality that you'd go through 2 a year. Jumper was 45 quid as well, it felt like you were wearing a Brillo pad and the elbows wore out after 3 months. coat was 60. Tracksuit was another 50. Tie was 15. The only thing I could buy in a normal shop was the shirts, a tenner for a 3 pack in Dunnes.


My Brothers only had to pay for a crested jumper and could buy the rest anywhere. The Jumpers were still 50 quid though.

A huge amount of schools in Ireland have crested uniforms which are only available to buy at an extremely high price from local retailers. There's no point going on about jumpers and trousers from Aldi when they're not applicable to the discussion.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

paddyandy wrote: »

Not true at all ikky .People can find individuality in conformity and always have done .

I know what you mean, but in realation to the post I was replying to, he seemed to think order and conformity was more important. Creativity and passion should be more important that what the kids wear. And that will never happen if everyone thinks the same.

If you need uniforms to enfoce order, something has gone massively wrong somewhere else in the system. And if people think order is the most important thing to instill in an entire nation of children, don't be surprised when said kids grow up unable or too scared to do something different or solve complex problems.

Colmustard

"Schoolgirls are dressing like sexy sluts and sluts are dressing like sexy school girls" Al Murray.

Poxyshamrock

Gone from school 3 years and I still miss my uniform!

Boombastic

phasers wrote: »

A lot of people can't afford to put hundreds of euro aside for uniforms! and yes, it is hundreds in some cases.

in a lot of girls secondary schools you have to wear a kilt with a specific pattern. Mine cost 45 quid and it was such crappy quality that you'd go through 2 a year. Jumper was 45 quid as well, it felt like you were wearing a Brillo pad and the elbows wore out after 3 months. coat was 60. Tracksuit was another 50. Tie was 15. The only thing I could buy in a normal shop was the shirts, a tenner for a 3 pack in Dunnes.


My Brothers only had to pay for a crested jumper and could buy the rest anywhere. The Jumpers were still 50 quid though.

A huge amount of schools in Ireland have crested uniforms which are only available to buy at an extremely high price from local retailers. There's no point going on about jumpers and trousers from Aldi when they're not applicable to the discussion.

Did you darn the elbows of the jumper and your child continue to wear it, or did you just replace it?

Yakult

My school didn't have crested uniforms when I was there 3 years ago and two uniforms would last the year most time. They were relatively cheap and good quality for what they were.
Now they have blazers and a school tracksuit for PE which drove the price up. Not great quality either.

It saves the hassle of trying to find something to wear each morning but no need to over do it and drive prices up.

flanders1979

A dress code would be enough to cut out the style competition.
Any one wearing those horrible new type baseball hats without the bend in the peak should be flogged or drowned in a toilet. I have banned them in my house. They hurt me eyes.

dub_skav

flanders1979 wrote: »

A dress code would be enough to cut out the style competition.
Any one wearing those horrible new type baseball hats without the bend in the peak should be flogged or drowned in a toilet. I have banned them in my house. They hurt me eyes.

You know you can just bend the peak - right?

flanders1979

dub_skav wrote: »

You know you can just bend the peak - right?

but dats not cool man:cool:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dub_skav wrote: »

You know you can just bend the peak - right?

In my day, they would have taken the cap away from you if you bent the peak and you'd have to spend the rest of the day capless and with a cold head.

Kosseegan

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

If you need uniforms to enfoce order, something has gone massively wrong somewhere else in the system. And if people think order is the most important thing to instill in an entire nation of children, don't be surprised when said kids grow up unable or too scared to do something different or solve complex problems.

School uniforms should be abolished and canes should be brought back. That way there would be individuality AND order. Teachers would not have the excuse of stress to get early retirement and the pupil teacher ration could be increased. It would be win win.

Mod note user banned.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kosseegan wrote: »

School uniforms should be abolished and canes should be brought back. That way there would be individuality AND order. Teachers would not have the excuse of stress to get early retirement and the pupil teacher ration could be increased. It would be win win.

Yeah, I've had this discussion with you before and I said then as I say now that your either a troll or a fetishist.

Regardness, living in constant fear is no way for a child to be raised if you want them to be able to communicate and learn.

paddyandy

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Yeah, I've had this discussion with you before and I said then as I say now that your either a troll or a fetishist.

Regardness, living in constant fear is no way for a child to be raised if you want them to be able to communicate and learn.

With no real order in the classrooms the bullies take over and nowadays the Teachers can do nothing effectively .in the 40s and 50s there was no indecision about who was in charge .
It's fear of the Teachers or fear of the Bullies one or the other .Fear in the correct amount can be reassuring and when there is no fear ......MAYHEM .

Guy:Incognito

I was in a school from 1st to 4th year that had no uniform and it was much better. There was no competition to see who had the best clothes either.

paddyandy

How i did long to wear the school Blazer and pressed slacks of the secondary school with the logo .Nothing wrong with uniforms but the fashion industry does'nt like them one bit .Tyrant .

Guy:Incognito

Fuinseog wrote: »

uniforms are not expensive. I know some schools where the shirt cost ten euros. if they wear a normal shirt how much would that cost?

People go home and have to change out of their uniforms so thats 2 sets of clothes a day. Thats more expensive.


If uniforms are gotten rid of why would you send your kids to school in a shirt anyway? A t-shirt will be grand and comfortable. Your certainly not forced to go out and buy desogner shirts to send kids to school in, thats just stupid.

Horrible bloody trousers and scratchy jumpers ar enot needed to learn in. Let the kids be comfortable.

Boombastic

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

People go home and have to change out of their uniforms so thats 2 sets of clothes a day. Thats more expensive.


If uniforms are gotten rid of why would you send your kids to school in a shirt anyway? A t-shirt will be grand and comfortable. Your certainly not forced to go out and buy desogner shirts to send kids to school in, thats just stupid.

Horrible bloody trousers and scratchy jumpers ar enot needed to learn in. Let the kids be comfortable.

I think a lot of the problem lies with the parents and their desires. Some think along the lines 'if little johnny has no uniform-he'll have to wear designer clothes to school, hence more expensive'


Little johnny probably thinks, great I can wear comfortable clothes suitable for actives I participate in'

:rolleyes:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

paddyandy wrote: »

With no real order in the classrooms the bullies take over and nowadays the Teachers can do nothing effectively .in the 40s and 50s there was no indecision about who was in charge .
It's fear of the Teachers or fear of the Bullies one or the other .Fear in the correct amount can be reassuring and when there is no fear ......MAYHEM .

In the 40s and 50s the teachers were either beating or raping the kids so that they were too terrified to learn or create anything. How the **** is that a condusive environment for learning...??

The rest of your argument is categorically wrong. No uniforms =/= no respect. If it were, continental and Scandanaviant countries would be in a right mess. The reverse is also wrong: I went to a school that had uniforms and there was plenty of chaos with some of the teachers.


A school and it's teachers will inspire respect. Nothing to do with unifroms.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

People go home and have to change out of their uniforms so thats 2 sets of clothes a day. Thats more expensive.


If uniforms are gotten rid of why would you send your kids to school in a shirt anyway? A t-shirt will be grand and comfortable. Your certainly not forced to go out and buy desogner shirts to send kids to school in, thats just stupid.

Horrible bloody trousers and scratchy jumpers ar enot needed to learn in. Let the kids be comfortable.

Exactly. if you wnt to instill a dress code, and I'm not at all against it, then at least make it simply, affordable and comfortable.

paddyandy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I was in a school from 1st to 4th year that had no uniform and it was much better. There was no competition to see who had the best clothes either.

Not so with Girls who are more visually orientated .

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

paddyandy wrote: »

Not so with Girls who are more visually orientated .

Girls are more susceptible to media manipulation, you mean. But again, if people were serious about respolvign the problem, they'd stop creating the problem in the first place.

paddyandy

IKKY POO ; Have a look at a Primary Certificate Exam paper for the 1950s
and have a look at The Leaving Certificate Exam paper for TODAY .The 50s Primary Cert. Exams would be impossible for many of today's Leaving Cert Students ..
Standards in Education have plummeted as Teachers know but won't say .
Corporal Punishment instilled an attention span that is'nt there any more .

Guy:Incognito

paddyandy wrote: »

Not so with Girls who are more visually orientated .

Never seemed to be a problem in the school. Everyone just wore what theu like.

Really hot days were great, loads of flesh on show.

JupiterKid

paddyandy wrote: »

IKKY POO ; Have a look at a Primary Certificate Exam paper for the 1950s
and have a look at The Leaving Certificate Exam paper for TODAY .The 50s Primary Cert. Exams would be impossible for many of today's Leaving Cert Students ..
Standards in Education have plummeted as Teachers know but won't say .
Corporal Punishment instilled an attention span that is'nt there any more .

Then go back to the 1950s if you love it so much.:rolleyes: I think you'll find that the level of education of the Irish population today is a quantum leap ahead of the standard in the 1950s when many children were unable to afford at attend secondary school, let alone third level. I'm grateful that those days are gone.