Chicken Litter

kenny d

Hi folks, looking for a bit of a heads up here please. We have a chance here of getting some chicken litter over the winter. We have got stuff off this grower in the past and as he is an a1 operator we have never had any problem with botulism or anything like that. We used to store it in the midan and spread it a few months later.Problem is we feel we lost a lot of the N from it. We have a big old 150 k gallon open slurry tank not in current use. We were thinking of tipping the litter in there, adding water, agitating and then spreading as slurry in an effort to utilise all the nutrients. Anybody ever do this ? As always all thoughts / ideas much appreciated.

bob charles

A well managed heap will have limited N loss, I hope you are keeping it covered over the winter? Maybe it was layer litter instead of broiler. dont dream of doing what your thinking as it would take a serious amount of water to get it to 10%dm

kenny d

Yeah Bob we always had it covered and it is Broiler litter. Said slurry tank catches a lot of water anyway as it is open to the elements of the Wet Wesht !

LostCovey

kenny d wrote: »

Hi folks, looking for a bit of a heads up here please. We have a chance here of getting some chicken litter over the winter. We have got stuff off this grower in the past and as he is an a1 operator we have never had any problem with botulism or anything like that.

Are you seriously considering spreading broiler litter on pasture after all the big botulism outbreaks that have been caused by it??????????

Are you not taking an enormous gamble that could clean you out ?

No matter how good the operator is, he only has to miss picking one carcass and if you mix the litter, you could spread it through the whole thing.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, and you are ploughing it in for tillage, but you mentioned botulism, so I assume you are putting it on pasture.

Why would you take a punt like that for cheap manure?

LostCovey

kenny d

LostCovey wrote: »

Are you seriously considering spreading broiler litter on pasture after all the big botulism outbreaks that have been caused by it??????????

Are you not taking an enormous gamble that could clean you out ?

No matter how good the operator is, he only has to miss picking one carcass and if you mix the litter, you could spread it through the whole thing.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, and you are ploughing it in for tillage, but you mentioned botulism, so I assume you are putting it on pasture.

Why would you take a punt like that for cheap manure?

LostCovey

As with life everything is a bit of a gamble but no we have absolutely no fears whatsoever of spreading litter from this grower as we have done so for years and never had a problem. Botulism has raised its ugly head in the aftermath of poorly run chicken units where the management of the unit left a lot to be desired. I can vouch for this lad as I know his set - up like the back of my hand. Bottom line is that litter is a terrific fertiliser when you can be as confident of its source as we are.

LostCovey

kenny d wrote: »

As with life everything is a bit of a gamble

True, but putting your herd on the table in a needless riskybet is more than most of us would gamble!

kenny d wrote: »

As with life everything is a bit of a gamble but no we have absolutely no fears whatsoever of spreading litter from this grower as we have done so for years and never had a problem. Botulism has raised its ugly head in the aftermath of poorly run chicken units where the management of the unit left a lot to be desired. I can vouch for this lad as I know his set - up like the back of my hand. Bottom line is that litter is a terrific fertiliser when you can be as confident of its source as we are.

Since feed antibiotics were withdrawn as growth promoters, botulism has ceased to be a thing that happens on poorly run farms. People who have been cleaned out with by botulism outbreaks have not necessarily got litter off "bad farmers".

I have no doubt you supplier is an excellent operator, and has a great set-up but that won't prevent botulism - if only it was that simple.

Botulism in cattle is not God's punishment for getting broiler litter off bad farmers - its an inherent risk in spreading ANY broiler litter on pasture.

However, its your right to take what risks you see fit with your own stock. Having said that I hope I am not near enough you for crows and foxes to be dragging stuff off your land onto mine, because that brings both of us into the gamble.

LC

bob charles

LostCovey wrote: »

True, but putting your herd on the table in a needless riskybet is more than most of us would gamble!




Since feed antibiotics were withdrawn as growth promoters, botulism has ceased to be a thing that happens on poorly run farms. People who have been cleaned out with by botulism outbreaks have not necessarily got litter off "bad farmers".

I have no doubt you supplier is an excellent operator, and has a great set-up but that won't prevent botulism - if only it was that simple.

Botulism in cattle is not God's punishment for getting broiler litter off bad farmers - its an inherent risk in spreading ANY broiler litter on pasture.

However, its your right to take what risks you see fit with your own stock. Having said that I hope I am not near enough you for crows and foxes to be dragging stuff off your land onto mine, because that brings both of us into the gamble.

LC

100% agree with above

Are you serious spreading chicken litter on grassland!!! Your not a neighbouring farmer of mine that spreads it on grassland aswell, Lets just say next time he does it, there will be action.

This sort of messing destroys the job for everyone else doing the job properly, ie delivered,spread and ploughed in a matter of a few hours.

Just wait till there is a botulism outbreak - last one near here had 20 animals wiped out, and a few farmers lucky to escape with there lives. Botulism is now a real danger in all broiler litter even the well looked after stuff. Its idiots spreading it on grassland that will finish the job for everyone and in turn add cost to burn it as disposal. Its illegal to spread it on grassland in my county, dont know if this is enforced country wide though

chickenfarmer

I don't agree with spreading on the pasture. We used to spread on our land up until 2 years ago. I am very exact on how I manage my house and it is walked 3 times a day. I still wouldn't take the risk. I have seen it on 1 farm where a guy lost 11 cows in the space of a couple of weeks. We send all our litter off for composting now.
The other thing to remember that boiler litter is very high in P's & K's. If spreading the whole time these need to be balanced out.

LostCovey

chickenfarmer wrote: »

I don't agree with spreading on the pasture. We used to spread on our land up until 2 years ago. I am very exact on how I manage my house and it is walked 3 times a day. I still wouldn't take the risk. I have seen it on 1 farm where a guy lost 11 cows in the space of a couple of weeks. We send all our litter off for composting now.
The other thing to remember that boiler litter is very high in P's & K's. If spreading the whole time these need to be balanced out.

Very well said.

This is a far more responsible approach than giving people assurances that it is safe because you have a good broiler farm and run a tight ship, because that's never going to address the risk.

LC

chickenfarmer

Thanks, Well its like this. We run a commercial free range house. 12000 broilers. All it takes is to miss 1 bird and you are facing calamity. The toxin from 1 carcass can spread out in a 3 foot circle from it in the field. It takes 1 mouthful of grass to kill a cow. Return from farming is too small to cover losses like that. Also it takes generations to build up good relations with neighbours and a good name for yourself. I'm not going to risk that.

Having said that its just my cents worth. I don't agree with it been spread on grassland. Its up to the OP to decide for themselves.

LostCovey

chickenfarmer wrote: »

Having said that its just my cents worth. I don't agree with it been spread on grassland. Its up to the OP to decide for themselves.

I agree, but I assume the OP posted to hear opinions.

He's not getting opinions he wanted to hear, unfortunately, but as you say its his call.

LC

kenny d

LostCovey wrote: »

I agree, but I assume the OP posted to hear opinions.

He's not getting opinions he wanted to hear, unfortunately, but as you say its his call.

LC

Crikey you can tell what opinions I wanted to hear ? Are you psychic or what ?To reiterate we have been spreading litter for years and we have never had a problem in a 300 head herd so save the pontificating. And yes I am fully aware that there is a first time but I tend to run my place the way I deem fit and proper without worrying about what the neighbours might think

bob charles

kenny d wrote: »

Crikey you can tell what opinions I wanted to hear ? Are you psychic or what ?To reiterate we have been spreading litter for years and we have never had a problem in a 300 head herd so save the pontificating. And yes I am fully aware that there is a first time but I tend to run my place the way I deem fit and proper without worrying about what the neighbours might think

ah yeah great, tough sh*te if the neighbours lose 10 cattle aslong as you have cheap fert. Things have changed allot from the past regarding the incidence of botulism in chicken litter. I live near a intensive area of chicken growers and all the litter is shipped off miles due to the problems with botulism and the anger that it has caused.

johngalway

I had looked into chicken litter earlier this year because of another matter. Discovering what it can do when spread on grassland, well, no thanks, not if I got it for nothing.

Department website has a little about it, not hugely informative, but it goes against good farming practice.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmingsectors/poultry/spreadingofpoultrylitteronland/

kenny d

bob charles wrote: »

ah yeah great, tough sh*te if the neighbours lose 10 cattle aslong as you have cheap fert. Things have changed allot from the past regarding the incidence of botulism in chicken litter. I live near a intensive area of chicken growers and all the litter is shipped off miles due to the problems with botulism and the anger that it has caused.

Oh I see my neighbour is going to lose cattle but i won't - give me a break.

kenny d

chickenfarmer wrote: »

I don't agree with spreading on the pasture. We used to spread on our land up until 2 years ago. I am very exact on how I manage my house and it is walked 3 times a day. I still wouldn't take the risk. I have seen it on 1 farm where a guy lost 11 cows in the space of a couple of weeks. We send all our litter off for composting now.
The other thing to remember that boiler litter is very high in P's & K's. If spreading the whole time these need to be balanced out.

Can I ask why you stopped spreading on your land 2 years ago ?

bob charles

kenny d wrote: »

Can I ask why you stopped spreading on your land 2 years ago ?

If you dont know the logical answer to your question asked, you are seriously misinformed about the safety of chicken litter. You seem also to be oblivious as to how your neighbours cattle may contract botulism whereas your own may not. Go figure

LostCovey

kenny d wrote: »

Crikey you can tell what opinions I wanted to hear ? Are you psychic or what ?

Yes I can.

Because I read your first post, where you sought opinions on retaining the nitrogen (N) content of broiler litter in storage. You didn't get these.

Instead you got opinions on the stupidity of saving a few quid while risking thousands for yourself and your neighbours, and what a reckless, un-neighbourly irresponsible act you were contemplating.

My special powers tell me you did not want to hear these opinions

kenny d wrote: »

To reiterate we have been spreading litter for years and we have never had a problem in a 300 head herd so save the pontificating. And yes I am fully aware that there is a first time but I tend to run my place the way I deem fit and proper without worrying about what the neighbours might think

Kenny_d, it is very clear that you do things your own way with no regard to your neighbours. I actually figured this bit out all by myself, but thanks for the confirmation.

People like you cause mayhem, for yourselves, for your neighbours.

And no outbreak of botulism in cattle in Ireland has had any human consequences. But if that ever changes, you had better be very fond of your 300 cattle, because you as a known spreader of this muck won't be able to give them away. Neither will your neighbours, but no harm there I suppose.

Madame LostCovey, psychic boardsie

kenny d

bob charles wrote: »

If you dont know the logical answer to your question asked, you are seriously misinformed about the safety of chicken litter. You seem also to be oblivious as to how your neighbours cattle may contract botulism whereas your own may not. Go figure

Bob in all fairness that question is directed to the relevant poster so maybe you should come on down off that high horse that you are on ! God I wish that I was surrounded by all well to do neighbours like you are all purporting to be but unfortunately I live in the real world where it is up to each individual to do whatever is best for them.

johngalway

This is going nowhere good, I'm locking the thread.