Cannonball Run in the Leaf

pburns

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

East to West? Dublin to Galway requires one 30 minute stop in Athlone. The Leaf can ingest 50 kilowatts of DC through its second larger DC port in the front.

You say that like it's a good thing:eek::o!

I (unexpectedly) had to do a similar trip recently with 5 people and a bicycle on board (Galway to Dublin, chasing around industrial estates in Sandyford for a meet-up and then down to Newbridge). Stopped off for some food on the go but with the weight, speed and distance we covered a Leaf woulda been a MAJOR pain in the hole. OK, so most journeys are less than 10 km or whatever....a bicycle, scooter, motorbike or even one of those covered BMW bikes Pat Kenny used to have - all would be preferable and cheaper (plus a proper car).

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

The Leaf just ticks the right boxes for me and I'm delighted other people are happy with their cars. Other people have their lists of "when the car can do XYZ come back to me" etc I'm happy they have the choice on the market to get what they want. I got what I want as well, thanks!

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

As it stands right now it costs me €20 to do 2100km. Let me know when petrol/diesel cars can do that

OK...you're happy with your choice and everyone else is happy with theirs but I can't help but feel a tinge of triumphant evangelicism here. No offence, I think you've said before you've owned a wide range of cars and bikes, probably more than me. But personally, a Leaf only works if you have a boring, predictable life where nothing unexpected happens and where you're totally anal about planning ahead (or if you have a 2nd car - but that kinda misses the point if the electric car is to stand on it's own merits).

johnos1984

You know if you were being really environmentally responsible the best way to do the CannonBall run would be to get a lift in someone elses car....

Sesshoumaru

MYOB wrote: »

My employer values (at least when charging customers)my time at more than the fuel savings. Quite a lot more.

If in that 2100km I have to do 8 charges its "cost" the company 800 quid. 820 is vastly more than the 100 euro or so diesel costs (remember that corporates won't be paying VAT on the diesel).

Even assuming its done during time where there is no other work available for me to do (this has happened once in four and a half years, may I add) and when I'm on normal salary due to it being in working hours the actual cost in time lost is still more than the "savings". Add in the chance of putting the driver in to over hours and it starts to get painful - in real terms not even the notional costs.

An electric car would *always* cost my employer more than the fuel savings seeing as the price of electricity will go up in tandem with diesel due to us getting most of our energy from fossil.

I honestly don't know what angle you're taking here? My car starts charging itself at 00:10 while I'm asleep. When I'm taking the kids to Dublin Zoo or just going to the shops my employer isn't paying me either. I come out in the morning and just use the car. Then at night it charges itself after midnight. Next morning I go out and just use it. In 9500km of driving I've only had to use the DC chargers a handful of times and half of those times were cause they're free and I just want to check out a new DC charge point.

You may not be aware but our country has a target of 40% of electricity generation to be from renewables by 2020. We are currently at 14% last time I checked. So no electricity won't go up in tandem with diesel. Expect lots more carbon taxes on diesel and petrol as well.

Sesshoumaru

pburns wrote: »

You say that like it's a good thing:eek::o!

I (unexpectedly) had to do a similar trip recently with 5 people and a bicycle on board (Galway to Dublin, chasing around industrial estates in Sandyford for a meet-up and then down to Newbridge). Stopped off for some food on the go but with the weight, speed and distance we covered a Leaf woulda been a MAJOR pain in the hole. OK, so most journeys are less than 10 km or whatever....a bicycle, scooter, motorbike or even one of those covered BMW bikes Pat Kenny used to have - all would be preferable and cheaper (plus a proper car).





OK...you're happy with your choice and everyone else is happy with theirs but I can't help but feel a tinge of triumphant evangelicism here. No offence, I think you've said before you've owned a wide range of cars and bikes, probably more than me. But personally, a Leaf only works if you have a boring, predictable life where nothing unexpected happens and where you're totally anal about planning ahead (or if you have a 2nd car - but that kinda misses the point if the electric car is to stand on it's own merits).

I think it's ironic you talk about triumphant evangelicalism when a significant proportion of peoples reactions to a Leaf are to trumpet how far their ICE cars can travel on one fill and how quickly they can be refilled etc In fact your own post was like this.

This is the motoring forum right? I think my car is awesome! Is that any different to anyone else on motors? Can you honestly say your post doesn't smack of "I'm right and you're wrong" triumpihilism? or you think of me differently from the thousands of other people on motors because the car I like and think is awesome, happens to be an EV?

Shane732

Sesshoumaru have you actually looked at the Leaf?



IMO it looks like total sh1t!

Over €30k for something that can't even do a run from Galway to Dublin, certainly wouldn't be my cup of tea.

You couldn't pay me to drive one of those.

Does the leaf have launch control like?!!

L1011

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I honestly don't know what angle you're taking here? My car starts charging itself at 00:10 while I'm asleep. When I'm taking the kids to Dublin Zoo or just going to the shops my employer isn't paying me either. I come out in the morning and just use the car. Then at night it charges itself after midnight. Next morning I go out and just use it. In 9500km of driving I've only had to use the DC chargers a handful of times and half of those times were cause they're free and I just want to check out a new DC charge point.

My average working day, and the average working day of anyone with a company vehicle, involves trips of lengths that would require a 30 minute "fast charge". I would have thought it was *quite clear* this is what I was talking about seeing as I was referencing the example journey of Dublin to Galway.

If I was extremely lucky I might end up having enough range to get to a work site that had a fast charging point, but seeing as I supply the medical industry and not motorways services or city centre car parks, thats not very likely now is it? So I'd be stuck in Athlone for 30 mins on the way home (or Monasterevin, or wherever. Probably twice on the way to Cork).

9500km of driving is a busy month for me. While my driving is higher than most, *any* field engineer, sales rep, etc is going to do mileage that'd require a 30 minute, employer paid for and lost earning time, break probably 3 to 5 times a week.

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

You may not be aware but our country has a target of 40% of electricity generation to be from renewables by 2020. We are currently at 14% last time I checked. So no electricity won't go up in tandem with diesel. Expect lots more carbon taxes on diesel and petrol as well.

Oh, I'm aware. I'm also aware we haven't got a snowballs of meeting it.

unkel

Am I alone here thinking this discussion is completely pointless? If you drive for a living or have a long commute, even the most competent EV available now (and surely we all agree that is the Leaf) will not do. Not by far. Not for at least another decade of magic evolution of batteries (that's what the dreamers and total optimists say) and probably never

However if you live in an urban area and do most of your driving in that urban area, and don't mind long delays and range anxiety on the odd unplanned longer trip, a Leaf might be a real alternative (given a massive subsidy paid for by the already overstretched tax payers to relatively rich people who already could afford to buy brand new mid market cars) , as it has proven to be for the OP

Entering a Leaf on a fun long distance trip meant to be for fancy cars is just plain wrong though

waxon-waxoff

I dont have a problem with the Leaf in the Cannonball, its all about cars you dont see everyday after all.

Passed by Merrion Sq this evening to see whats in it this year. Two very nice 60's Mustangs and the usual 911's, 430's and Gallardos.

L1011

unkel wrote: »

Am I alone here thinking this discussion is completely pointless? If you drive for a living or have a long commute, even the most competent EV available now (and surely we all agree that is the Leaf) will not do. Not by far. Not for at least another decade of magic evolution of batteries (that's what the dreamers and total optimists say) and probably never

Well, our EV-lover is trying to justify that they are in fact suitable for long distance driving...

kdevitt

unkel wrote: »

Entering a Leaf on a fun long distance trip meant to be for fancy cars is just plain wrong though

Totally agree, its also completely reckless for them to be spreading smug all over the country.

SV

MYOB wrote: »

Well, our EV-lover is trying to justify that they are in fact suitable for long distance driving...

Even though it's quite obvious they're not.


Capable of does not equal being suitable for.

flanders2006

Nissan Leaf charging!

-Chris-

flanders2006 wrote: »

Nissan Leaf charging!

Sesshoumaru

MYOB wrote: »

My average working day, and the average working day of anyone with a company vehicle, involves trips of lengths that would require a 30 minute "fast charge". I would have thought it was *quite clear* this is what I was talking about seeing as I was referencing the example journey of Dublin to Galway.

If I was extremely lucky I might end up having enough range to get to a work site that had a fast charging point, but seeing as I supply the medical industry and not motorways services or city centre car parks, thats not very likely now is it? So I'd be stuck in Athlone for 30 mins on the way home (or Monasterevin, or wherever. Probably twice on the way to Cork).

9500km of driving is a busy month for me. While my driving is higher than most, *any* field engineer, sales rep, etc is going to do mileage that'd require a 30 minute, employer paid for and lost earning time, break probably 3 to 5 times a week.



Oh, I'm aware. I'm also aware we haven't got a snowballs of meeting it.

My car is a family car. The Leaf isn't targeted at business people who do long distances every day. Same way a *insert random two seat sports car here* isn't suitable for someone with kids.

I really do wonder why you bring up your business requirements? I mean there must be plenty of fossil fuel cars that also don't meet your requirements? Does that mean all cars that don't meet your individual requirements are bad?

Sesshoumaru

Shane732 wrote: »

Sesshoumaru have you actually looked at the Leaf?



IMO it looks like total sh1t!

Over €30k for something that can't even do a run from Galway to Dublin, certainly wouldn't be my cup of tea.

You couldn't pay me to drive one of those.

Does the leaf have launch control like?!!

It looks better in black, that's the colour of my Leaf. What car do you have?

Sesshoumaru

MYOB wrote: »

Well, our EV-lover is trying to justify that they are in fact suitable for long distance driving...

I like how you try to label me "EV-lover", I'm obviously not part of the regular "motors gang" in your eyes :P

I've also been fairly consistent on the point that it is capable of longer journeys and it is suitable for occasional long journeys, which is what most people do.

listermint

Design wise Its not bad, somewhere between a Renault Clio and the Micra.

Sesshoumaru

unkel wrote: »

Am I alone here thinking this discussion is completely pointless? If you drive for a living or have a long commute, even the most competent EV available now (and surely we all agree that is the Leaf) will not do. Not by far. Not for at least another decade of magic evolution of batteries (that's what the dreamers and total optimists say) and probably never

However if you live in an urban area and do most of your driving in that urban area, and don't mind long delays and range anxiety on the odd unplanned longer trip, a Leaf might be a real alternative (given a massive subsidy paid for by the already overstretched tax payers to relatively rich people who already could afford to buy brand new mid market cars) , as it has proven to be for the OP

Entering a Leaf on a fun long distance trip meant to be for fancy cars is just plain wrong though

As a society we subsidise a lot of people and projects because we think they are worth while for society overall. Should I complain about people who get mortgage interest relief? rent subsidy? grants for their solar water heating? grants for insulating their homes?

I don't get any of those things, but they are deemed worthwhile to society overall. So I don't complain about those who get this money which comes out of my pocket. I don't agree with all of those, but I accept that a lot of things will happen that I don't agree with because I choose to live in society/community with rules etc.

Oh and I'm not rich, not even relatively speaking. My wife and I sold two perfectly good secondhand cars to buy our one Leaf. I have loan repayments which equal €500 per month. This is a very big outgoing for me! I would not normally be able to afford a car in this price bracket. However when doing my calculations I found we would be saving almost €200 per month on fuel compared to our A6 2.5TDI alone. That saving alone is what put it into the affordable category for me. You can't say someone who buys a 30k Leaf could also afford a brand new ICE car for the same price. That's an apples and oranges comparison and I haven't even gone into lower maintenance costs.

DanyEhrenbrink

Big Nasty

What time did this kick off this morning? 11am or so?

How many times has the leaf had to stop so far?:D

EDIT: Leaf on side of road

keithclancy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I'm really happy for those of you with fossil fuel cars that don't need to stop once on a Dublin to Galway journey. For me it's a minor point. The big issue for me is the saving I make by owning an EV. I've previously posted my figures for July, I just checked online now for August and here is a screenshot:



At the end of the day the range of the Leaf is primarily determined by the capacity of the battery, which currently stands at 24kwh. It's just a battery though, when a better one becomes available I'll be able to replace it. The US version of the BYD e6 is already packing a 60kwh battery pack. Until then I'll live with my €10 per 1050km car

How much is a new battery pack ?

SV

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It looks better in black, that's the colour of my Leaf. What car do you have?

Fair play for actually going out of the norm and buying one and all but man..it's not good looking. Sorry

DanyEhrenbrink

keithclancy wrote: »

How much is a new battery pack ?

When do you need one ? The pack can be replaced cell by cell if required and are likely not to fail, but to degrade over time... in 10 years or so ( expected are 15) they will hold 80% capacity.
( quick info on the matter, Nissan gives 5 years warrenty on all electrical parts including the battery pack)
-- There is no number out there yet for a new pack as Nissan has not yet build a new one. The latest news on the matter is that by 2015 they will offer the leaf with double the range.

SV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCx5T4Sb-q4

mickdw

I would never buy a leaf for many reasons but as demonstrated in a previous thread on here, the running costs are stunning so for the people who can make it work with all its range issues etc, it makes absolute sense and tbh the initial additional cost of the car over a diesel alternative is not significant given the daily fuel savings.
Again as was pointed out to me previously, much of the 'efficiency' is down to night rate electricity costs which offer a significant saving still, thats where the price is at this time and it certainly makes sense.

barura

Guys n' gals, forgive me for suggesting this but how much space does the battery take up? Surely doubling the amount of batteries would solve a certain amount of this problem that is it's range? And increasing the aerodynamics a bit? It doesn't look so aerodynamic to me, for a car which needs no air intake in the conventional manner....

DanyEhrenbrink

barura wrote: »

Guys n' gals, forgive me for suggesting this but how much space does the battery take up? Surely doubling the amount of batteries would solve a certain amount of this problem that is it's range? And increasing the aerodynamics a bit? It doesn't look so aerodynamic to me, for a car which needs no air intake in the conventional manner....

This might answer your question. Besides the batteries are the most expensive part of the car at the moment, due to the limited amount build ( If more people would buy a car like this, the price will drop dramaticly)

keithclancy

DanyEhrenbrink wrote: »

When do you need one ? The pack can be replaced cell by cell if required and are likely not to fail, but to degrade over time... in 10 years or so ( expected are 15) they will hold 80% capacity.
( quick info on the matter, Nissan gives 5 years warrenty on all electrical parts including the battery pack)
-- There is no number out there yet for a new pack as Nissan has not yet build a new one. The latest news on the matter is that by 2015 they will offer the leaf with double the range.

5- 10 years actually .. depending on if you use a fast charge or not.

Also other factors are involved:

* Avoid exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120 °F (49 °C) for over 24 hours.

* Avoid storing a vehicle in temperatures below −13 °F (−25 °C) for over 7 days.

* Avoid exceeding 70 to 80% state of charge when using frequent (more than once per week) fast or quick charging.

* Allow the battery charge to be below at least 80% before charging.

* Avoid leaving the vehicle for over 14 days where the Li-ion battery available charge gauge reaches a zero or near zero (state of charge).

Also:
http://www.inautonews.com/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-costs-19k

After the unwanted advertisement on the Leaf, first with the UK Top Gear and now with Andy Palmer’s interview, Nissan is coming forward and announcing that the company is also offering a five-year / 100.000 km warranty on the Leaf’s electric components, that also includes the battery pack which is designed to last as long as the Leaf.

Basically your covered up to 5 years or 100,000km.

To replace the entire battery pack would cost 19,000 stg.

ottostreet

Anyone know what the BMW parked beside the electric car is? I'm assuming M5?

barura

DanyEhrenbrink wrote: »

This might answer your question. Besides the batteries are the most expensive part of the car at the moment, due to the limited amount build ( If more people would buy a car like this, the price will drop dramaticly)

Well why not get rid of the spare tyre and lash some batteries in there? Put a puncture repair kit or something? Bah, I'm losing my mind with these electric vehicles. For example, I was checking out electric vans and gave em a quick google and you get these: http://www.megavan.org/mega-vehicle-sales.htm Pretty crap range and charging.

The only reason stuff like this is even starting is because of government incentives. It's a false way of going about business.

Check this out though: http://evbmw.com/ THIS is what should be on the cannonball run. It show innovation for the EV market. I remember a company who were making swappable batteries based on liquid salt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_battery#ZEBRA_battery That's a pretty good solution, I feel.

But again, back on topic. I think the leaf doing a cannonball run is silly without boasting a long range feature such as an expandable or interchangeable battery pack? It would not be difficult to find space in the boot! A car that can do a range of 160-200 miles would get my attention at that price of "fuel" for that range, but then again.... When will that happen?

Sesshoumaru

keithclancy wrote: »

5- 10 years actually .. depending on if you use a fast charge or not.

Also other factors are involved:



Also:
http://www.inautonews.com/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-costs-19k



Basically your covered up to 5 years or 100,000km.

To replace the entire battery pack would cost 19,000 stg.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1064332_nissan-leafs-battery-pack-should-last-as-long-as-the-car

“We are confident that [rapid] charging once a day will have no impact on the expected durability,” said a Nissan representative. “A single [rapid] charge plus a conventional charge per day would give enough to travel almost 200 miles a day, or 72,000 miles a year. The average motorist does less than 10,000 miles a year. An example from our telematics shows a privately-owned Leaf in Tokyo still has 100% charge capacity after 10,000 miles and 326 [rapid] charges."

“To make the maintenance of the Leaf as easy as possible, the “battery” is actually 48 batteries in a large box which can be replaced individually to keep costs low. Each is connected to the Leaf’s advanced telematics system so Nissan can monitor the health of each module remotely. The price quoted in the press of [$31,795] for an entire battery is not indicative of the actual cost. It is an extrapolation of the individual price of replacing a single battery multiplied by 48. The cost of a conventional engine and transmission built up from individually sourced parts would be similarly high”

Victor_M

Any car can do the cannonball run once the orgainisers allow it it, and in fairness as rarity goes the leaf is up there with SLR's & SLS's for the moment anyway.

The leaf is an interesting concept but a s a long term solution it has a few more years of development to go, I had a rental prius a few years ago and it was a surprisingly enjoyable experience, topped off when I only had to add €9 of petrol at the end of a weeks driving.

It will be interesting to see if the ESB have to cheat to get the car through the route, I was in Westport 2 weeks ago and there is an E charging post along one of the street that was permanently filled with non EV cars.

If they ever got popular enough (I don't think they will in EV only guise) but between busy charging stations, blocked stations, people disconnecting or stealing the cables etc there are so many obstacles. I forget to charge my mobile the odd night and its a PITA for the day, same with my laptop.

Also my last 3 laptops the weakest links have been the battery's, my last dell gave a warning 'you're battery has passed it usable life expectancy, you can still charge it but it's performance is dramatically reduced" (not the exact wording but something along those lines.) This error occured after less than 3 years, even before it started to error out the usefulness went from 8hrs to 5 very quickly less than 18 months in fact and rapidly went down hill form there.

I believe Nissans 10 year claim is a) under perfect lab conditions & b) if has to be charged using the guidelines that Nissan lay out (like full discharge before charge etc same as mobiles, they will have log data in the leaf and anyone who complains about premature battery degradation will have years of data collected thrown at them saying if you had followed the manufacturers guidelines etc.

The resale value of these will be atrocious given the huge cost of replacement cells.

The Diesel electro combo is, IMO short term the way to go, in fact that Volvo in the other thread looks great.

It will be interesting to see how the Leaf gets on cross country and wheter it can make it on it own without sneaky top ups from a support truck.

DanyEhrenbrink

keithclancy wrote: »

5- 10 years actually .. depending on if you use a fast charge or not.

Also other factors are involved:



Also:
http://www.inautonews.com/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-costs-19k



Basically your covered up to 5 years or 100,000km.

To replace the entire battery pack would cost 19,000 stg.

“The price quoted in the press of £19,000 for an entire battery is not indicative of the actual cost. It is an extrapolation of the individual price of replacing a single battery multiplied by 48. Nissan offers a five-year/100,000 km warranty on LEAF’s electric components including the battery pack. This battery pack is designed to last the lifetime of the car. If used in normal conditions, it is not expected that owners will ever have to replace the battery pack”

keithclancy

DanyEhrenbrink wrote: »

“The price quoted in the press of £19,000 for an entire battery is not indicative of the actual cost. It is an extrapolation of the individual price of replacing a single battery multiplied by 48. Nissan offers a five-year/100,000 km warranty on LEAF’s electric components including the battery pack. This battery pack is designed to last the lifetime of the car. If used in normal conditions, it is not expected that owners will ever have to replace the battery pack”

Essentially what they are saying is the life of the car is 5 years or 100,000km.

A battery is a consumable item, it is not the same as a transmission.

eagerv

I remember not that long ago when a colour tv cost a few months salary!

Battery technology will improve dramatically over the next few years, as will charging times.

Fair play to early users such as Sesshoumaru for presenting his experience with the Leaf in such a clear and precise way. Saw one yesterday near Dublin airport. I thought it looked pretty good, far better than most of the other anonymous new boxes on the road

Lord Derpington

eagerv wrote: »

As a car enthusiast and a technofile I would be very happy to drive any of the competing cars including the Leaf!

Even this?

Renault Megane 2 2.0 RS225 5DR

Sesshoumaru

keithclancy wrote: »

Essentially what they are saying is the life of the car is 5 years or 100,000km.

A battery is a consumable item, it is not the same as a transmission.

A real life example of a privately owned Leaf in Tokyo still had 100% capacity after 10,000 miles and 326 DC fast charges. Another real life example is the original RAV4 EV from Toyota, the ones remaining in the US are easily exceeding 100k and 150k miles on the original battery pack.

Which brings me to my next point about the battery pack. Why do you need to buy a new one? If it does degrade rapidly (which evidence so far indicates it won't) then Nissan have stated before they will refurbish your battery for a fraction of the cost of a new one. Then you're back to 100% capacity again.

SV

greenfly wrote: »

Even this?
[IMG]http://www.cannonball.ie/images/stories/igallery/accepted_cars/large/88_adam_casey.JPG Renault Megane 2 2.0 RS225 5DR[/img]

Why wouldn't you be happy to drive that?

fletch

greenfly wrote: »

Even this?

Renault Megane 2 2.0 RS225 5DR

Why "even this"? I think any car enthusiast would love a spin in that Megane.

Sesshoumaru

greenfly wrote: »

Even this?

Renault Megane 2 2.0 RS225 5DR

I'd like an understated hot hatch like that. I'd prefer if the Cannonball Run wasn't exclusively for expensive cars.

Lord Derpington

fletch wrote: »

Why "even this"? I think any car enthusiast would love a spin in that Megane.

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I'd like an understated hot hatch like that. I'd prefer if the Cannonball Run wasn't exclusively for expensive cars.

I suppose the response from Sesshoumaru kind of sums up the reason I said "even this".
Personally I love understated cars, something like that. Something that could be described as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The only reason I said even this? Is because across Europe the whole cannonball run is for more rare and prestigious cars or a least perceived to be by everyone I have talked to.
The leaf being part of it has a quirky appeal and will get a lot of looks but I can guarantee you a lot of people would take one look at the Mégane or the Mini cooper in the race and say WTF are they doing here?

The Mégane might be a petrol heads wet dream, I cant say ive never drove one in that exact model. But I have drove a normal petrol Mégane and it was something that I can say I did not enjoy one bit.

SV

greenfly wrote: »

The Mégane might be a petrol heads wet dream, I cant say ive never drove one in that exact model. But I have drove a normal petrol Mégane and it was something that I can say I did not enjoy one bit.

If you ever come to a boards meet you're more than welcome to take out my Clio.
I recommend driving a normal Clio first so you can see the difference.
They're not the same thing. RenaultSport, not Renault.



Also, you do make a good point though. I was very surprised to see the Megane accepted, as well as the Fiat 500.

fletch

I would say there are a lot less Megane 225's in the country than Porsche 911s. Anyone who calls themselves a car enthusiast should appreciate them. I agree though, the Mini Cooper really has no place at the rally.

Edit - The Megane never showed up I noticed

SV wrote: »

I was very surprised to see the Megane accepted, as well as the Fiat 500.

The 500 (Abarth Esseesse) is a very rare car in Ireland....I can't imagine there would even be 10 Fiat 500 Abarth Esseesses in the country.

ottostreet

Know what else is rare in Ireland? Dacia.

fletch

ottostreet wrote: »

Know what else is rare in Ireland? Dacia.

I don't know any Dacia performance variants...?

SV

fletch wrote: »

The 500 (Abarth Esseesse) is a very rare car in Ireland....I can't imagine there would even be 10 Fiat 500 Abarth Esseesses in the country.

I don't think there's even 5 of my car in the country(Irish registered anyway) but I doubted it getting accepted so didn't even apply.

seriously disappointed now

ottostreet

fletch wrote: »

I don't know any Dacia performance variants...?

I don't know any Nissan Leaf performance variants.

fletch

ottostreet wrote: »

I don't know any Nissan Leaf performance variants.

Ha that's true however at least the Leaf is showing off new technology, what would the Dacia be bringing to the table?

Big Nasty

ottostreet wrote: »

Know what else is rare in Ireland? Dacia.

We had plenty of Dacia 1300's Renault 12's back in the day!

Lord Derpington

fletch wrote: »

I don't know any Dacia performance variants...?

There is actually LINK
I very much doubt they are widely available though, I just googled Dacia performance