Talk Talk at "Talk Talk"

nice_very

So.. what are we (as the people of Waterford) going to do about these hundreds of job losses in recent years? sit in bars over a "large bottle" complaining?? why not get out in force, every unemployed person in the city and county (and indeed, the country) why dont we protest? WE NEED A CHANGE OF POLICY, GOVERNMENT AND DIRECTION, or de we want to be ruled by germany and france, suffering to pay off their bad risks??

seriously people, when is it going to be enough?

eeloe

That's probably what we'll do, sit around drinking until the problem dissapears.

A lot could be done if instead of people trying to find themselves a job, created one for themselves.

I know it's easier said than done, but surely it'd be great for people to be pro active and created a small business with help from the government.

I know the back to work schemes are there, but the government should be advertising this more?

nice_very

... along with so called "internships" looking to abuse what could be a positive move for the country?... I am unemployed since Feb 2011, I have a good education, vast experience and I would LOVE to get my teeth into a project in my area of study/expertise, to help my local community, for 50 euro extra I would do it... is it so hard to place people in jobs relevant to their studies/experience, be it within govt/local govt, without taking the piss?

nice_very

@eeloe: not angry at you or your opinion, maybe it came across as that.. I hope u understand the frustration there is out there, IMO we need to tell the gambling bondholders to f-off, if I dont win the lotto I dont get my money back... say adios to the euro, and tell the imf to f.... well Im sure u understand

Ta tu aerach

I think places like Waterford need to look towards a more sustainable economic path.

Call centres are not a foundation for a vibrant local economy; relying on such a business for such a high volume of jobs was madness.

But this in itself highlights how centralised power is in this country: what might work in Dublin certainlly won't work elsewhere in a nation such as Ireland.

nice_very

Ta Tu, I am in agreement, I just want to see a bit more of pride in our nation... what has happenned?? everybody is/was too comfortable and now they thing they have a right to money/jobs... why not get up off your leather couch in front of your 42" plasma tv and fight/protest to do what is right for this country (not you personally Ta Tu)

Ta tu aerach

nice_very wrote: »

Ta Tu, I am in agreement, I just want to see a bit more of pride in our nation... what has happenned?? everybody is/was too comfortable and now they thing they have a right to money/jobs... why not get up off your leather couch in front of your 42" plasma tv and fight/protest to do what is right for this country (not you personally Ta Tu)

But pride in what exactly?

Surely you first need to build something to be proud of?

Waterford Crystal's demise was a far more significant and regretable loss to the region than Talk Talk. It symbolised a decline in a skilled industry; one which is actually built on something tangible and historic.

Those kind of industries are what you need, not the Talk Talk's of this world.

nice_very

thats what Im talking about.. pride in our built, enviromental, economic and historic heratige.. pride in our history as a people, I have lived through 2 devastating recessions with very personal consequences, all I want to see is our leaders leading us by example, but are we as a people, with our history, going to allow ourselves to be fcuked over again?? and again, and again, and again.... when are WE the people going to draw a line and say: enough is enough.. fix this or gtfo

Ta tu aerach

nice_very wrote: »

thats what Im talking about.. pride in our built, enviromental, economic and historic heratige.. pride in our history as a people, I have lived through 2 devastating recessions with very personal consequences, all I want to see is our leaders leading us by example, but are we as a people, with our history, going to allow ourselves to be fcuked over again?? and again, and again, and again.... when are WE the people going to draw a line and say: enough is enough.. fix this or gtfo

No disrespect, but Ireland is responsible for where she currently finds herself.

Fiana Fail are the most elected party in post-war, European history. That tells its own story really.

But it's not just the national government who's at at fault: when has there been a mass protest in Waterford over the council's handling of local rates and charges for businesses? This has a huge impact on competitivity.

The sorry truth is that Irish people are too docile and too conformist -- mainly due to their Catholic subservience.

Maybe in 3-4 generations this will change enough to make a difference.

nice_very

Ta Tu, I am in total agreement, we are too docile... look at egypt/lybia etc, we as a country see ourselves as more developed.. economically and politacally ass them, yet they are leading the way in saying NO to being fcuked over...

Im quite drunk, so maybe leave this for now... I cant spell... :P Im just trying to get accross the message that we need to stand up for ourselves, as a city, region and country... Im in, if anyone else wants to make your voice heard.. why not unite?

dayshah

hardybuck wrote: »

We don't have what? Can you clarify? There hasn't been huge currency fluctuations either.

Average Eurozone industrial wages:
Ireland: €45k
France: €37k
Germany: €37.5k
Greece: €27.5
Spain: €33k
Portugal: €22
Italy: €32k

Eurozone minimum wages:

Ireland: €8.65
France: €9 - due to a shorter working week
Germany: €8.40
Greece: €4.27
Spain: €4.26
Portugal: €2.02
Netherlands: €8.07

So, Ireland not really in line with other Eurozone countries. A few close on minimum wage fronts, but our average industrial wage is still a bit off. Coming down though.

Employers don't make decisions based on wages, they make them based on labour costs, so those figures are misleading (and out of date). Employers PRSI in Ireland is way below the equivalents in other countries, so this brings labour costs more in line.

Anyway, I was referring to social welfare. Ireland is certainly not one of the most generous in Europe. Countries like France, Denmark etc give far better dole and so on.

Also, with sterling there has been a HUGE depreciation since the boom. Where were you the past four years?

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

The state is the largest single employer in the country, so the state actually does create jobs.

If that is the case why doesn't the government create another 500,000 jobs then?

hardybuck wrote: »

Interestingly, unemployment in the region has decreased since this time last year, and also the south east has lower unemployment levels than the south west, the border region, and Dublin.

Any link for this?

hardybuck

Finnbar01 wrote: »

If that is the case why doesn't the government create another 500,000 jobs then?



Any link for this?

Already had to admit lazily reading my CSO stats on that. The number of males on the live register fell, but levels of females rose. Also important to point out that the live register won't capture the total unemployed - just the ones who are receiving benefits.

Professey Chin

I recommend going the the "Great Getaway" and delivering a Falcon Punch

sparkling sea

dayshah wrote: »

Employers don't make decisions based on wages, they make them based on labour costs, so those figures are misleading (and out of date). Employers PRSI in Ireland is way below the equivalents in other countries, so this brings labour costs more in line.

Anyway, I was referring to social welfare. Ireland is certainly not one of the most generous in Europe. Countries like France, Denmark etc give far better dole and so on.

Also, with sterling there has been a HUGE depreciation since the boom. Where were you the past four years?

Employers base decisions on lots of factors including wages costs but this is rarely the sole cause.

The Irish social welfare system within a European context is considered to be very generous when supplementary benefit packages are added on.

I really hope the Government and IDA target companies that need the skill sets that the people working in Talk Talk already have - surely that and the low company tax rate must be an incentive for companies needing call centres. Yes the minumum wage rate is high but corporation tax is so low!

You cant make a company stay here but it doesnt appear that the people at the top are pursing new companies vigourously enough either.

krissovo

sparkling sea wrote: »

Yes the minumum wage rate is high but corporation tax is so low!

Most call centers work on cost recovery rather than as a profit center, so corporation tax is not much of an incentive. They would have to move their HQ to Ireland to get any benefit. Plus when you include PRSI etc the cost of an Irish call center employee is around €40k even with IDA grants.

Quest software are doing this in Cork.

Finnbar01

According to this article the South East is now the unemployment black spot of Ireland.

The southeast has the dubious honour of topping the State’s table with its unemployment rate, which hit 18 per cent late last year before registering a still-frightening 17.2 per cent in the most recent data compiled by the Central Statistics Office. This compares to a State-wide average of 14.1 per cent, adding credence to the region’s “black spot” fears.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0909/1224303756337.html

Also this from the article:

She adds that each position lost in a multinational tends to lead to at least half a job being cut in supporting businesses

So 575/2 = 288 (rounded) extra jobs that will be lost?!

jonnyfingers

Finnbar01 wrote: »

So 575/2 = 288 (rounded) extra jobs that will be lost?!

Effectively, yes. Usually reduced spending by those unemployed mean reduced profits for shops in town, which in turn means reduced hours or lay-offs for staff of those shops.

Then on top of that you have increased cost to the government through social welfare payments and the decrease in tax revenue.

So everything has a knock on effect.

RxQueen

Do you actually think its wise to be posting this up???

I mean keep somethings to yourself, you are putting all of us in the shit here.

Just to get a few thanks and a few post like... cop on to yourself

Swissarmyknife

Have any politicians national or local,visited the Talk Talk centre since the job losses were announced?

Sully

RxQueen wrote: »

Do you actually think its wise to be posting this up???

I mean keep somethings to yourself, you are putting all of us in the shit here.

Just to get a few thanks and a few post like... cop on to yourself

Mod Note

Likewise, if you have a problem with a post report it and we will address it asap, if required.

Its a stressful time for everyone, no doubt, but please try keep things as calm and collect as possible. Everyone of you are in this problem together, so work together.

RxQueen

yes sir

200motels

hardybuck wrote: »

Think outside the box for a minute. If wage levels weren't as high, cost of living wouldn't be as high either. People doing identical jobs even in Northern Ireland get paid less than us, and pay less for goods and services.

And they get free doctor, free school books, you can't compare this country to the UK.

MitchKoobski

RxQueen wrote: »

Do you actually think its wise to be posting this up???

I mean keep somethings to yourself, you are putting all of us in the shit here.

Just to get a few thanks and a few post like... cop on to yourself

I wasn't doing it for thanks or posts despite what you think, but you are right and I apologise.

RxQueen

It fine, you just have to remember that this is a public site, not just for waterford.. and higher up people do look at websites believe it or not

Psychedelic

Finnbar01 wrote: »

According to this article the South East is now the unemployment black spot of Ireland.



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0909/1224303756337.html

Also this from the article:



So 575/2 = 288 (rounded) extra jobs that will be lost?!

It's not an exact science but it can be anywhere between a half and one jobs lost as a result of a company closing. Some sectors are higher than others - services would be less than say pharma or manufacturing.

dayshah

sparkling sea wrote: »

The Irish social welfare system within a European context is considered to be very generous when supplementary benefit packages are added on.

Yes, it is considered so by people who are too lazy to actually examine the benefits that people get in other EU countries.

sparkling sea

dayshah wrote: »

Yes, it is considered so by people who are too lazy to actually examine the benefits that people get in other EU countries.

Go on enlighten me, I have looked at this and what you say doesnt hold up when supplementary packages are added on. The likes of Household benefits package, supplementary welfare payments, RAS, FIS leave Ireland trailing only behind the Baltic states - even at that there participation in the social contract and theeir level of actual responsibilty to each other is much higher then here. They don't and won't the likes of nixers or cash in hand payments

dayshah

sparkling sea wrote: »

Go on enlighten me, I have looked at this and what you say doesnt hold up when supplementary packages are added on. The likes of Household benefits package, supplementary welfare payments, RAS, FIS leave Ireland trailing only behind the Baltic states - even at that there participation in the social contract and theeir level of actual responsibilty to each other is much higher then here. They don't and won't the likes of nixers or cash in hand payments

In France you get 80% of your salary for two years, plus free health etc etc. Other countries have these add ons too, plus far more generous social insurance.

sparkling sea

dayshah wrote: »

In France you get 80% of your salary for two years, plus free health etc etc. Other countries have these add ons too, plus far more generous social insurance.

Only 9% of the French workforce is unionized

France has not experienced full employment since the 1970s (5% or less) creating huge poverty traps. 40% of the working
population, is either poor, unemployed, or underemployed with access to limited social benefits, and this is no accident. French social
policy is not geared towards the interests of those stuck in poverty and the 2.5 million unemployed (officially, over 9.5% of the labor force something that is not noe by people who are too lazy to investigate the reality of the situation)

French retirees are the richest in the world (relative to current workers) and they retire much earlier than their counterparts in other major Western nations. They form the core of the welfare state’s supporters,and since 1980 their wishes – not those of the 1.7 million working poor, single parents, the unemployed children of immigrants, the handicapped,struggling young families faced with high rents and low incomes – have driven the social policy agenda.