Is it madness to buy our first home now??

donalg1

magneticimpulse wrote: »

As I mentioned before, the Irish GDP is currently funded by export of Pharmaceutical products... Just do some research and see that this is the "only" industry currently keeping Ireland afloat. Of course there is some IT companies like Intel/hp etc also contributing to this.

Then also do your research and see the Pfizer bought Wyeth, Merck and Schering Plough merged...prob the 4 largest companies in Ireland becoming 2. These companies are all in the process of downsizing. Also as I mentioned these companies have not had major new drugs on the market in recent years. Their patents will soon be up which will mean any Indian or Chinese company can produce these drugs for 4 times cheaper then in Ireland!!!

I am an unemployed Chemist and hell if I cannot find a job in the one thing which is heavily invested in Ireland with these Research/Technology/Pharma companies they keep talking about in the news...then I know there is a major storm ahead. My parents were talking to a guy the other week who had a PhD in Nanotechnology...and he was working in a coffee shop and selling up because even he couldnt find a job (remember the one area that Ireland is investing in)!!!!

Quite frankly Australia or Canada is looking much more appealing. Who is going to be left in Ireland to work in the Pharma or IT industry???

I would consider myself the average Irish person...good university qualification, at the age to be looking for property. However why should I spend my life paying taxes for other peoples mistakes when I have such a good education that means I can make it anywhere in the World??? Many Irish people must think the same, many young Irish people must think...to hell with this!!! Already all my cousins below the age of 30 have left for US, Canada and Australia...they wont be buying anything on the Irish property market. It's quite easy for us to just walk away and leave...why?
Ireland is sinking

I can assure you that this is the reality...and it is the reality of many Irish people under the age of 30. The only speculation involved is that it "might" get better...the reality is that it is not getting better or easier unless you decide to get out of the Irish sinking ship

I completely agree with all of the above magnetic and i can understand the frustration of being very qualified and having worked your ass off to gain these qualifications only to be left frustrated by the lack of opportunity to find employment in Ireland today, leaving emigration as the only realistic option for many of us Ireland.

However my point throughout this thread is that the OP is obviously one of the lucky ones that are in a position to acquire a mortgage today and purchase the house they want so why shouldnt he do it.

If you asked those people that have emigrated recently would they prefer to be in Canada or Australia, or at home in Ireland in a job that allows them to take out a mortgage and settle here for life near their family and friends. What would they choose?

beeno67

mathie wrote: »

It's also funny how nobody was able to contradict one of the 26 A-Z points that Theboinkmaster posted.

Well is anyone saying house prices are not going to fall? Every poster I have read seems to accept average prices will probbly fall

magneticimpulse

donalg1 wrote: »

I completely agree with all of the above magnetic and i can understand the frustration of being very qualified and having worked your ass off to gain these qualifications only to be left frustrated by the lack of opportunity to find employment in Ireland today, leaving emigration as the only realistic option for many of us Ireland.

However my point throughout this thread is that the OP is obviously one of the lucky ones that are in a position to acquire a mortgage today and purchase the house they want so why shouldnt he do it.

If you asked those people that have emigrated recently would they prefer to be in Canada or Australia, or at home in Ireland in a job that allows them to take out a mortgage and settle here for life near their family and friends. What would they choose?

They might choose what I will choose and that is to stay well away from Ireland.

I am currently in France and I always consider will I move back to Ireland and settle??? For the past 9 years the answer has been no and the country does not look anymore appealing as time goes on.

Its unfortunate to be away from family and friends, but sure with Skype and Facebook I prob talk to them more often then ever.

As for the OP being "lucky" enough to buy a house. I would not say it is about being lucky but rather about asking is it clever or wise....the whole point of this thread is "the OP mad to buy a house"....and so far 98% of the people have said "Yes it is bonkers to buy a house". Regardless of how much money you have, willing to burn or throw away.

If I had that much hard earned cash and wanted to throw it away to some bank...id rather give it to a homeless guy in the street.

Lets not forget that money didnt just "disappear" into thin air. The property market was like the largest pyramid scam. The people at the top have walked away with all the money and it is sitting in some account in the Cayman Islands, while they sit on the paradise beach drinking Pina Colada's.

The question is....how to become this persons friend? Maybe moving to the Cayman Islands and befriending these ex bankers/property developers is the better option.

ShadowHearth

so i better not mention, that i put deposit on a house yesterday... :rolleyes:

i know 99% of people here are pro haters, but meh... i wanted to buy a house, so i went for it... it works out cheaper then rent and i can do whatever i fecking want in it. it cuts down my daily commute to work from 10kms to 1km, but its still in very good spot in between bigger towns if i will need to find a new workplace...


i always had a job, resetion my hole, i busy as hell all 6 years. In fact me and and misses shadowhearth live in ireland 6 years, all 6 years we are working and newer claimed a single benefit. Not the best payed jobs, but it is more then enough to live, put away, and spend on things we want.

now i am working 6 days per week and pay for all dole huggers, so why the feck i cant do whatever i want with my own money. Everyone just shout: THE END OF THE WORLD! WE ALL GOING TO DIE! No its fecking not, even now ireland is a waaaaaay better place to live then most of eastern europe! you dont know how good you have it here. if you got atleast 2 brain cells, you can make a living here. Normal jobs, you just need your finger out.

i said it before: if you are looking for a HOME, then its a good time to buy, if you are looking at it with clear eyes and realistic situation of your finances. If you are looking for investment, then its a bad time to buy.

donalg1

ShadowHearth wrote: »

so i better not mention, that i put deposit on a house yesterday... :rolleyes:

i know 99% of people here are pro haters, but meh... i wanted to buy a house, so i went for it... it works out cheaper then rent and i can do whatever i fecking want in it. it cuts down my daily commute to work from 10kms to 1km, but its still in very good spot in between bigger towns if i will need to find a new workplace...


i always had a job, resetion my hole, i busy as hell all 6 years. In fact me and and misses shadowhearth live in ireland 6 years, all 6 years we are working and newer claimed a single benefit. Not the best payed jobs, but it is more then enough to live, put away, and spend on things we want.

now i am working 6 days per week and pay for all dole huggers, so why the feck i cant do whatever i want with my own money. Everyone just shout: THE END OF THE WORLD! WE ALL GOING TO DIE! No its fecking not, even now ireland is a waaaaaay better place to live then most of eastern europe! you dont know how good you have it here. if you got atleast 2 brain cells, you can make a living here. Normal jobs, you just need your finger out.

i said it before: if you are looking for a HOME, then its a good time to buy, if you are looking at it with clear eyes and realistic situation of your finances. If you are looking for investment, then its a bad time to buy.

Good lad Congrats

Mr. Loverman

donalg1 wrote: »

I dont see how its not an economically advantageous time to buy, house prices are low at the moment, (granted they will most likely decrease some more), interest rates aren't sky high yet, TRS can still be availed of for now, and its a buyers market so there are plenty of pro's to buying at the moment

The bit in bold is why it is not an economically advantageous time to buy.

Is it better to buy now rather than buy in 2006? Yes.
Is it better to buy now rather than buy in 2012? Unlikely.
Is it better to buy now rather than buy in 2013? Unlikely.
Is it better to buy now rather than buy in 2014? Unlikely.
Et cetera.

House prices seem cheap compared to bubble prices, but it is wrong to compare prices to bubble prices. You need to totally forget about the bubble and ask yourself should an ex-council house in a shithole be unaffordable to those on a low wage, and should an average house in an average area be unaffordable to those on an average wage. The answer of course is no.

arikv

no1beemerfan wrote: »

Personally I would give my left leg to have my own place but keeping emotions out of it I see its not worth buying at the moment, especially as we have a few tough years to get through first. I got married in July and we agreed to rent for the next 5 years and see then. We got lucky in that we have a two bed detached house with a big garden for €450 a month to rent.

First of all, I bought my house back in May (of this year), my rent was 1000 Euro P/M (Dublin), my mortgage is 850 (First time so get the Benefit worth about 70 Euro p/m for the first 7 years at present).
I'm a "non national" and I know which school my kids will go to (primary school), so the house I bought is about 100m from that school.

In many cases prices will drop further, but it doesn't really matter (and I"m a prudent person most of the time).
I've been renting for 18 years, in 3 countries and was quite happy until we had kids and my whole prospective changed but would probably not recommend buying unless you know where (you want to) live in the next 5 years at least.

arikv

BTW, are people aware of the fact that the population grows (even during recessions, probably more during recessions) and despite emigration the fact that no new houses are being built in urban area as I know nothing about rural Ireland (apartments are not desirable by most families), so depending on where you want to live ( I'm living in South Dublin) in my area nothing is being built and despite all the gloom out there Irish people still want to own their homes and there's money out there as South Co. Dublin mostly read about recession (in relative terms) in the examiner and the indo.
Obviously there are two sides to each coin but please do try and think independently, this is partly the reason why no one saw the recession coming (might miss the recovery for the same reason).
I'm not saying that recovery is here but I don't see anyone trying to look at the big picture, any country I know of that had a recession (It's my third in 3 countries), within a couple of years people get on with their lives (except for some people who may never find work in the country) and at the end of the day, come stronger out of it (I know I did).
For the time been, just get on with your lives.

Mr. Loverman

The power of denial.

As I get older I realise what a major problem it is.

beeno67

arikv wrote: »

First of all, I bought my house back in May (of this year), my rent was 1000 Euro P/M (Dublin), my mortgage is 850 (First time so get the Benefit worth about 70 Euro p/m for the first 7 years at present).
I'm a "non national" and I know which school my kids will go to (primary school), so the house I bought is about 100m from that school.

This is a very important point. I always find it strange when single people go on about how they won't buy. Well why the he'll should you when you are single or have no kids. Renting in that situation makes much more sense irrespective of the price of the house. It is different when you have kids and need to provide stability. Kids hate change and moving regularly can cause major problems for families (even more so if it means changing school & friends) I know you can get long term leases but in general (I repeat in general) renting does not offer great stability for families.

ShadowHearth

arikv wrote: »

First of all, I bought my house back in May (of this year), my rent was 1000 Euro P/M (Dublin), my mortgage is 850 (First time so get the Benefit worth about 70 Euro p/m for the first 7 years at present).
I'm a "non national" and I know which school my kids will go to (primary school), so the house I bought is about 100m from that school.

In many cases prices will drop further, but it doesn't really matter (and I"m a prudent person most of the time).
I've been renting for 18 years, in 3 countries and was quite happy until we had kids and my whole prospective changed but would probably not recommend buying unless you know where (you want to) live in the next 5 years at least.

+1 here lad.

The amount of negativity is just stunning! It's like everyoe is waiting for the end of the world! All this scaring of people got country even in to deeper **** then or is now. I am sure good few people in here heard, that Irish have billions in savings in the country!!! Everybody are. Just scared to do anything as they got scared thanks to media!

No one is saying that we have to go and buy stupidly overpriced property now! Just look in the thread in this forum about overpriced properties. Some idiots still live in bubble and don't want to believa that theyr Legoland box is not worth half of million!

There are bargains out there, which can make a briliant family house. I am buying a house myself, which os working out 370eu per month on mortgage. My rent is 650!!! Even if I losse job, it's still easier for me and misses to pay 370 then 650!

I know bank will get alot of money from me, but I better pay that to bank and have my house in 25 years, then paying double for rent and let my landlord to pay for his own house.

It's not black and White with buying houses. You can't just say that buying a house is bad idea now. There are allways variables in that formula, because in one cases buying is a smart choise, in some it's a luxury that you want, and in some cases it's a plain bad idea.

Mr. Loverman

ShadowHearth wrote: »

There are bargains out there

I keep reading this but I am yet to see any "bargains".

What I have seen is property which seems cheap compared to bubble prices, but obviously that doesn't mean anything.

Btw I don't think anyone is saying buying property in general doesn't make sense, that are just saying you will lose money for sure if you buy now. Of course if you are OK with that and have thought it through, that's grand, but many recent buyers keep trying to pretend (delude?) now is a good time to buy based on prices.

donalg1

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

ShadowHearth wrote: »

There are bargains out there

I keep reading this but I am yet to see any "bargains".

What I have seen is property which seems cheap compared to bubble prices, but obviously that doesn't mean anything.

Btw I don't think anyone is saying buying property in general doesn't make sense, that are just saying you will lose money for sure if you buy now. Of course if you are OK with that and have thought it through, that's grand, but many recent buyers keep trying to pretend (delude?) now is a good time to buy based on prices.

How's about a 3 bed semi d in kilkenny for 100k and yes if you buy one you get one free. Would that be a bargain?

highgiant1985

donalg1 wrote: »

How's about a 3 bed semi d in kilkenny for 100k and yes if you buy one you get one free. Would that be a bargain?

depends on the quality of the place, link?

it could be extremely poor and in need or major work or it might not exist at all in which case bargain doesn't exist :P

donalg1

highgiant1985 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

How's about a 3 bed semi d in kilkenny for 100k and yes if you buy one you get one free. Would that be a bargain?

depends on the quality of the place, link?

it could be extremely poor and in need or major work or it might not exist at all in which case bargain doesn't exist :P

It was built in the boom so probably is pretty pi## poor but still not a bad price. Point is though if you look beyond the pale there are plenty of bargains to be had

iguana

beeno67 wrote: »

Kids hate change and moving regularly can cause major problems for families (even more so if it means changing school & friends) I know you can get long term leases but in general (I repeat in general) renting does not offer great stability for families.

Have you ever met kids? I moved 3 times when I was a kid and every single time it was great adventure, except the first time because I was too young to have a clue anything was even happening. Kids don't give too much of a crap about moving until they are fairly old, maybe about 9-10. Up until that point friendships are easily made and lost and moving house can easily be spun as awesome by any parent with a head on their shoulders.

highgiant1985

donalg1 wrote: »

It was built in the boom so probably is pretty pi## poor but still not a bad price. Point is though if you look beyond the pale there are plenty of bargains to be had

you've not provided any link to prove such a place exists...

I can say there's houses going for 5k in Dublin that are great value but it doesn't mean its true. Please provide a link to back up your claim and then people can decide if its good value or not. otherwise your claim is pure speculation and you have provided no proof that bargains can be had.

Spiritofthekop

highgiant1985 wrote: »

you've not provided any link to prove such a place exists...

I can say theres houses going for 5k in Dublin that are great value but it doesn't mean its true. Please provide a link to back up your claim and then people can decide if its good value or not. otherwise your claim is pure speculation and there is not proof that bargins can be had.

Very true.

I would like to see a thread & list started for bargain & value for money priced houses in Ireland.

You can be pretty sure it would be a quiet thread & if there is any input into it they will surly be house's from...."ballyinthemiddleofnowhere" :P

donalg1

highgiant1985 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

It was built in the boom so probably is pretty pi## poor but still not a bad price. Point is though if you look beyond the pale there are plenty of bargains to be had

you've not provided any link to prove such a place exists...

I can say there's houses going for 5k in Dublin that are great value but it doesn't mean its true. Please provide a link to back up your claim and then people can decide if its good value or not. otherwise your claim is pure speculation and you have provided no proof that bargains can be had.

Or you could Google it yourself or look on any number of websites such as daft and note the bargains

Spiritofthekop

donalg1 wrote: »

Or you could Google it yourself or look on any number of websites such as daft and note the bargains

I can gaurentee you!...you will NOT find any or very little to none... value for money or any bargains in Dublin on either of them websites.

highgiant1985

Donalg why should I look for value... I'm not making the claim here you are... I'm asking you to back up your claim that you can get a house in kilkenny for 100k that represents good value and you get a second one free. because otherwise for all we know you are simply making up lies to delude yourself / others.

I'm living in Kilkenny and can tell you your claim is bull**** as I'm monitoring house in kilkenny city(currently have 78 houses tracked from daft/my home) and either your referring to a place outside the city or in the arse of nowhere where very few people want to live or the place doesn't exist. Either way I claim no such value exists.

beeno67

iguana wrote: »

Have you ever met kids? I moved 3 times when I was a kid and every single time it was great adventure, except the first time because I was too young to have a clue anything was even happening. Kids don't give too much of a crap about moving until they are fairly old, maybe about 9-10. Up until that point friendships are easily made and lost and moving house can easily be spun as awesome by any parent with a head on their shoulders.

That would not be general medical opinion. Moving during childhood is associated with poor school attainment, early school drop out and consequently poor work prospects in later life. It is also associated with behavioural problems in children. You are right about the older you are the worse the effects and obviously parents can help ease the situation. Your experience is not necessarily the same for everyone

highgiant1985

donalg1 wrote: »

How's about a 3 bed semi d in kilkenny for 100k and yes if you buy one you get one free. Would that be a bargain?

<- Donal a reminder of what you've said... do you accept that your post is false and you were basically lying and no such place exists?

highgiant1985

beeno67 wrote: »

That would not be general medical opinion. Moving during childhood is associated with poor school attainment, early school drop out and consequently poor work prospects in later life. It is also associated with behavioural problems in children. You are right about the older you are the worse the effects and obviously parents can help ease the situation. Your experience is not necessarily the same for everyone

I moved house when I was 8. I don't think it had any negative impact personally but then again here I am online on a sunny Saturday playing football manger when I could be out enjoying life so maybe its contributed to making me behave like a nerd :P

I can't really remember being that young very well but I do remember I was excited at the time about moving because I got a bigger bedroom.

donalg1

donalg1 wrote: »

highgiant1985 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

It was built in the boom so probably is pretty pi## poor but still not a bad price. Point is though if you look beyond the pale there are plenty of bargains to be had

you've not provided any link to prove such a place exists...

I can say there's houses going for 5k in Dublin that are great value but it doesn't mean its true. Please provide a link to back up your claim and then people can decide if its good value or not. otherwise your claim is pure speculation and you have provided no proof that bargains can be had.

Or you could Google it yourself or look on any number of websites such as daft and note the bargains

Brendan mcglynn has the same offer in donegal now so its not a new thing

beeno67

highgiant1985 wrote: »

I moved house when I was 8. I don't think it had any negative impact personally but then again here I am online on a sunny Saturday playing football manger when I could be out enjoying life so maybe its contributed to making me behave like a nerd :P

I can't really remember being that young very well but I do remember I was excited at the time about moving because I got a bigger bedroom.

My grandfather smoked 20 cigs a day and lived to 85. All that stuff about smoking being bad must be total nonsense then.

highgiant1985

donalg1 wrote: »

Brendan mcglynn has the same offer in donegal now so its not a new thing

again you've failed to back up your original statement... can you just admit you lied so we can all move on?

Those houses in Donegal were seriously overpriced they weren't worth 100k selling price he had put on each house which is why they were not selling. The houses were in an area where there was little demand and 2 for 1 for 100k was NOT a bargain when the houses were seriously overpriced.

again not seeing any bargin...

highgiant1985

beeno67 wrote: »

My grandfather smoked 20 cigs a day and lived to 85. All that stuff about smoking being bad must be total nonsense then.

clearly...

Please reread my post - i was only giving my experience. I did not state anywhere in my post that this was the case for everyone.

donalg1

highgiant1985 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Brendan mcglynn has the same offer in donegal now so its not a new thing

again you've failed to back up your original statement... can you just admit you lied so we can all move on?

Those houses in Donegal were seriously overpriced they weren't worth 100k selling price he had put on each house which is why they were not selling. The houses were in an area where there was little demand and 2 for 1 for 100k was NOT a bargain when the houses were seriously overpriced.

again not seeing any bargin...

No matter what I show you you will still come back with the above bull. Oh its not in Dublin so nobody will live there!!!!! Whatever its a bargain end of story booooo ya

iguana

beeno67 wrote: »

My grandfather smoked 20 cigs a day and lived to 85. All that stuff about smoking being bad must be total nonsense then.

Show us the links to your "general medical opinion" then. I bet they aren't a load of biased, unsubstantiated, refuted nonsense or anything. A friend of mine moved from Ireland to Australia with her 2 young sons and thinks it's the best thing they've ever done as a family. So much so that a year into the move they packed up a camper and decided to spend a year travelling around the country. And she's (shock horror) a doctor!:eek: