Parkway Shopping Centre to be completed.

munstergirl

From todays leader, can council influence planner? I've no idea, but I hope not! Also anyone know what a "buck-ape" is, language used by mayor? Seems like council opposing, easy for them, they all have a job.... what would save limerick city centre is more jobs.... people working in parkway if it ever happens will have money to spend in shops, pubs and resturants of city centre.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/crunch_talks_set_for_parkway_valley_plan_1_3047357


CITY and county councillors will sit down next week for crunch talks over the planned Parkway Valley Shopping Centre.

Mayor Jim Long is to bring county councillors, city councillors, and various officials from the two authorities around the table to discuss the controversial plan - which could see a massive shopping park constructed off the Dublin Road. The meeting will be chaired by former Kerry Group boss Denis Brosnan.
With an application for retention of the development currently before Limerick County Council, there are major fears, if it goes ahead, it could represent the death knell for the city’s dying centre.
Meanwhile, Mayor Long believes the developer behind the project, Suneil Sharma is treating him as a “buck-ape” for only agreeing to a meeting with him late next month - by which time, planning permission could be in place.
Concerns were expressed by the Limerick Chamber, and the Limerick City Business Association over the project, with entrepreneur Helen O’Donnell saying if it goes ahead, it will be “devastating” for the city.
The Mayor has now issued a rallying cry to businesses in the city, asking them all to stand behind him against the multi-million euro scheme.
“It is time for leadership, it is time for all those passionate about the city to come together. I am concerned this development would wipe out a number of places in the city centre.”
In e-mail communication, Mr Sharma has offered to meet Mayor Long on Monday, October 17, to allow him to allow his team time “to prepare a comprehensive presentation of our plans.”
But this offer has angered the Mayor: “The planning decision is due on October 6, and he has already engaged senior auctioneers on this planning team looking for expressions of interests. All the boxes will be ticked when he decides to sit down with us. This is a real kick for us.”

Berty

Aha The council are throwing their toys out of the pram because some millionaire/billionaire has decided they are just a few folks who have to sign on the dotted line to let him get on with his work.

And NOW they are worried about the city centre. They have had years and now they are going to dig their heels in and block major development because it will kill the city centre.

"Bloody Jobsworths" :mad:

kilburn

Anyone who thinks that the building of Parkway Valley will NOT kill the city really need to throw whatever they are smoking out the window.

On another note, to the city car parks are full brigade the electronic car park information signs project has gone out to tender, so when they are up you will be directed to where the spaces are in the so called full car parks.

Amazotheamazing

Beer Baron wrote: »

Aha The council are throwing their toys out of the pram because some millionaire/billionaire has decided they are just a few folks who have to sign on the dotted line to let him get on with his work.

And NOW they are worried about the city centre. They have had years and now they are going to dig their heels in and block major development because it will kill the city centre.

"Bloody Jobsworths" :mad:

Why do you want the city centre killed?

Berty

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Why do you want the city centre killed?

I never said I did. I'm not the one building shopping centre. I'm not able to stop him building the shopping centre. I don't work on the council.

Moral: I have no input and no power.

So: Why should I stand in the way of progress? The city was dead even during the "boom" compared to other cities. Do you really believe that stopping a shopping centre / entertainment complex being built will somehow save the city centre?

Don't let the council and their failings confuse you. They had time and money to revitalise the "river city" and they never did. On their heads be it.

munstergirl

The developer has NOT invested multi millions in this project yet, its all subject to planning.

I think the mayor is being v aggressive about this. Maybe the developer will spend his multi millions elsewhere and limerick city centre will be saved. Ha ha.

Why doesn't the council do something about crime,shop lifting, anti social behavior, junkies, kids on horses,lack of gardai patroling streets, charity collectors, the real reasons people don't shop in city centre anymore.

Oh unemployment, 22,000 plus. Shops are dying as some limerick people have no spare money to spend.

Kess73

I see Clonmel is getting an Iceland store. From what I hear they had a very similar approach to getting Iceland in as they did in getting the M&S store to Clonmel. Guess having people who know how to deal with large companies pays off.

ABEasy

The city is already dead, this shopping centre will make no difference either way. I think munstergirl is right, need to look at improving the city centre by getting rid of the junkies and scumbags before anyone will make a significant investment there. It's the most depressing city centre I've ever been in....

Kess73

Beer Baron wrote: »

I never said I did. I'm not the one building shopping centre. I'm not able to stop him building the shopping centre. I don't work on the council.

Moral: I have no input and no power.

So: Why should I stand in the way of progress? The city was dead even during the "boom" compared to other cities. Do you really believe that stopping a shopping centre / entertainment complex being built will somehow save the city centre?

Don't let the council and their failings confuse you. They had time and money to revitalise the "river city" and they never did. On their heads be it.

Exactly. There is a whole heap of smoke and mirrors being produced to try and paint the prospect of a development at the Parkway valley site as being the only threat to the city centre. You would swear that it is at a point that if the Parkway Valley centre gets stopped that the city is suddenly going to become a proper city centre in terms of retail range and facilities.

If the Parkway valley project gets shelved, we can look forward the the usual claims of how the Opera centre will save the city centre or how the Sarsfield street SC will save the city centre.

I'm all for the Parkway valley centre being stopped IF a city centre development is at the stage where it can be approved and work can begin within 12 months in terms of starting to build it, but the thing is that in 12 months time they will still be talking about the Opera centre and no doubt a number of other "hige" projects that are just around the corner.

Last month we had the rubbish statement about how Cork and Galway are not really busy and how they don't have more people in the city centre than Limerick and that it is because the streets of Limerick are so big that the Limerick crowds look small.

Then we had the talk of how M&S were on the verge of coming to Limerick city centre for the 158th time, despite M&S saying that they were not.

Then late last month/early this month we had the "news" that a major development was on the card that would see the Old Dunnes near Sarsfield brdige plus most of Sarsfiled street, Liddy street, some of O'Connell street, and some of the AQ park turned into a massive shopping centre. Then it turned out that the real news was that the building of the old Dunnes was going to be cleaned up like the empty dead units on Patrick st/Rutland st and no retail centre was on the cards.

And now we are back to hearing rubbish from the council about trying to stop a developer who has a track record of bringing in retailers tocommit to his projects before he builds.

Pity they were not as quick to try and make waves about the Irish developers who built lots of retail units that are now sitting empty thanks to the mentality of just building without having first having lined up your tenants/potential tenants, or as quick to open their mouths when a Limerick developer built loads of houses that are mostky sitting idle and the same developer wants to build more onto the same dead project.

jc84

ABEasy wrote: »

The city is already dead, this shopping centre will make no difference either way. I think munstergirl is right, need to look at improving the city centre by getting rid of the junkies and scumbags before anyone will make a significant investment there. It's the most depressing city centre I've ever been in....

The city is the worst for scumbags, I don't even go near the city anymore last time I was there some guy got his BMW smashed in by a couple of scumbags on heroin screaming for fags, the city is finished anyway whether the parkway goes ahead or not

enfant terrible

Kess73 wrote: »

Then we had the talk of how M&S were on the verge of coming to Limerick city centre for the 158th time, despite M&S saying that they were not.

Were M&S ever close to coming to the Crescent SC?

Resi12

Why is everyone in Limerick so obsessed with M&S coming here, acting like if it does all our troubles will be washed away.

M&S is not exactly cheap, I don't see how them opening a store in a place with high unemployment rates/bad retail sector would make sense. If we can't even have a Supervalu any more what makes people think M&S is coming?!

sioda

Resi12 wrote: »

Why is everyone in Limerick so obsessed with M&S coming here, acting like if it does all our troubles will be washed away.

M&S is not exactly cheap, I don't see how them opening a store in a place with high unemployment rates/bad retail sector would make sense. If we can't even have a Supervalu any more what makes people think M&S is coming?!

We have a super value in grove island do we not?

tfitzgerald

The problem with Limerick city is rates . They are the highest in Ireland and they would prefer to see you close than give you a break on them . Also turning Limerick into the largest taxi rank in the country hasn't helped and now they are getting in a private company to act as traffic wardens another incentive to park in the city

Cookiemunster

tfitzgerald wrote: »

The problem with Limerick city is rates . They are the highest in Ireland and they would prefer to see you close than give you a break on them .

The amalgamation of the councils is going to resolve some of the rates issues.

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Also turning Limerick into the largest taxi rank in the country hasn't helped

The problems isn't too many taxi ranks, it's too many taxis. But thats another issue altogether.

tfitzgerald wrote: »

and now they are getting in a private company to act as traffic wardens another incentive to park in the city

What to you expect them to do? They're not allowed to hire new wardens to replace those that have retired so people are staying in spaces all day or people are parking in delivery zones and on double yellow lines. If you park illegally you deserve to be fined, whether its by a council warden or a private outsourced one.

Amazotheamazing

Beer Baron wrote: »

I never said I did. I'm not the one building shopping centre. I'm not able to stop him building the shopping centre. I don't work on the council.

Moral: I have no input and no power.

So: Why should I stand in the way of progress? The city was dead even during the "boom" compared to other cities. Do you really believe that stopping a shopping centre / entertainment complex being built will somehow save the city centre?

Don't let the council and their failings confuse you. They had time and money to revitalise the "river city" and they never did. On their heads be it.

It's not progress. Surprised anyone could view shopping centres as progress.

I think the city centre needs to complete changed, but i think improvements are being made, the quays are nicer, the pedestrian streets are nicer, the market is nicer etc. People are forgetting how bad the city centre was in the 80's and early 90's.

Goofy

I just went through the planning permissions. The place will have 3 anchors, 55 retail units, 15 restaurant units, 2 financial, an olympic sized ice rink and a park. The cinema and "well being centre" are no longer on the permission.
That amount of retail space is not needed anywhere in the midwest. Do people think that there are 75 different businesses waiting for this to be built before they open their new shops here? This is a white elephant. Unless something usefull can be done with the site the council should order that it be demolished and returned to a greenfield site or turned into a park

SnoopyGunner

sioda wrote: »

We have a super value in grove island do we not?

Yes, that store is open.

Berty

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's not progress. Surprised anyone could view shopping centres as progress.

Progress is finishing the site from its current state. I was in Longford town this afternoon and they have a fully built shopping centre for years which has never opened. Let him build it.

"Build it and they will come" (rather apt, no?)

phog

Beer Baron wrote: »

Progress is finishing the site from its current state. I was in Longford town this afternoon and they have a fully built shopping centre for years which has never opened. Let him build it.

"Build it and they will come" (rather apt, no?)

I cant see how that argument stands up, why aren't all the retail units used in the Jetland, Castletroy, Parkway and Coonagh Cross. I'm leaving out the Crescent as it's probably the most successful S/C in the Mid West.

Resi12

If any new shopping centre is to be started it should be the Opera. I'm sorry but I don't give two fooks what county people have to say. I wish for once they would just shove it.

When people talk about Limerick it's the city, much like any other city in the world. Not the country area's surrounding it, so for that sake I would much prefer the city to be brought back to life first rather than letting people pump money into what seems to me a doomed project.

I mean isn't there enough shopping centres out that area? There's the one with B&Q right next to it (which is empty as it is), then there's the one with Dunnes that stays open late/Pizza Hut etc and then there is the Parkway itself which I know isn't much but still.

Another centre of retail is not needed there in my opinion, especially one that sounds so enormous. Even if it does do well, why in the world do we need another shopping centre outside the city that requires travel? Why is everyone so keen to turn the city surroundings into a prime area, it's just a bit much now to be honest considering we don't even have a cinema in the city. It's just a shambles, a complete shambles.

Berty

phog wrote: »

I cant see how that argument stands up, why aren't all the retail units used in the Jetland, Castletroy, Parkway and Coonagh Cross. I'm leaving out the Crescent as it's probably the most successful S/C in the Mid West.

What is the draw to the Jetland? Dunnes(only if you are grocery shopping frankly).

What is the draw to Castletroy? Superquinn(only if you are grocery shopping frankly)

What is the draw to Coonagh Cross? Tesco or Tesco Fuel

What would the draw to the Parkway Valley be? 5 anchor tenants. Two may possibly be Grocery shopping like the others but if there are any disposable stores like Pennys then they would be on to a winner. Look how busy Pennys is ANY day of the week.

One of the only reasons I visit town on a personal level is so that the missus can visit A-Wear and Pennys because Pennys is apparently crap in the Crescent. Other than that there is no draw.

Now, if M&S and Pennys were in the new shopping centre then we would go there just for the two of them. The Ice Rink in Dundalk is doing very well as it is and they now have a resident ice hockey team. This would also be good for the city/county.

Also, resi12, The building would be on the fringes of the city/county and frankly people in Castletroy/Monaleen consider themselves part of the city and not the county so they don't particularly see the difference.

Amazotheamazing

Beer Baron wrote: »

What is the draw to the Jetland? Dunnes(only if you are grocery shopping frankly).

What is the draw to Castletroy? Superquinn(only if you are grocery shopping frankly)

What is the draw to Coonagh Cross? Tesco or Tesco Fuel

What would the draw to the Parkway Valley be? 5 anchor tenants. Two may possibly be Grocery shopping like the others but if there are any disposable stores like Pennys then they would be on to a winner. Look how busy Pennys is ANY day of the week.

One of the only reasons I visit town on a personal level is so that the missus can visit A-Wear and Pennys because Pennys is apparently crap in the Crescent. Other than that there is no draw.

Now, if M&S and Pennys were in the new shopping centre then we would go there just for the two of them. The Ice Rink in Dundalk is doing very well as it is and they now have a resident ice hockey team. This would also be good for the city/county.

Also, resi12, The building would be on the fringes of the city/county and frankly people in Castletroy/Monaleen consider themselves part of the city and not the county so they don't particularly see the difference.

What five anchor tenants do you think are so eager to move to Limerick that they just can't wait, but are also circumspect enough that they won't go into any of the existing retail units?

I had genuinely hoped the recession would wake people up to the pointlessness of overbuilding.

phog

Beer Baron wrote: »

What is the draw to the Jetland? Dunnes(only if you are grocery shopping frankly).

What is the draw to Castletroy? Superquinn(only if you are grocery shopping frankly)

What is the draw to Coonagh Cross? Tesco or Tesco Fuel

What would the draw to the Parkway Valley be? 5 anchor tenants. Two may possibly be Grocery shopping like the others but if there are any disposable stores like Pennys then they would be on to a winner. Look how busy Pennys is ANY day of the week.

One of the only reasons I visit town on a personal level is so that the missus can visit A-Wear and Pennys because Pennys is apparently crap in the Crescent. Other than that there is no draw.

Now, if M&S and Pennys were in the new shopping centre then we would go there just for the two of them. The Ice Rink in Dundalk is doing very well as it is and they now have a resident ice hockey team. This would also be good for the city/county.

Also, resi12, The building would be on the fringes of the city/county and frankly people in Castletroy/Monaleen consider themselves part of the city and not the county so they don't particularly see the difference.

You can complete and open Parkway Valley with as many anchor tenants as you like and then if it's a success all you'll do is draw the customers away from the existing shopping centres, something has to suffer, we've a smaller population with less disposable income now than when this place first kicked off.

How many white elephans do you want around the city?

ABEasy

How many white elephans do you want around the city?

I'd prefer a white elephant than a derelict building site!

I say let him build it (not that my opinion will make a difference), it will generate employment whilst it's built, generate development fees and rates for lmk co co and if it doesn't work it won't cost us a dime (foreign developer & nib is not a nama bank). Plus it will prob bring down the rent in the crescent which is very high.

phog

ABEasy wrote: »

I'd prefer a white elephant than a derelict building site!

I say let him build it (not that my opinion will make a difference), it will generate employment whilst it's built, generate development fees and rates for lmk co co and if it doesn't work it won't cost us a dime (foreign developer & nib is not a nama bank). Plus it will prob bring down the rent in the crescent which is very high.

Have you seen the state of Dunnes Stores on Sarsfield St? Building a S/C just to complete a derelict site and then it turning into a white elephant wont do much for an eyesore.

ABEasy

phog wrote: »

ABEasy wrote: »

I'd prefer a white elephant than a derelict building site!

I say let him build it (not that my opinion will make a difference), it will generate employment whilst it's built, generate development fees and rates for lmk co co and if it doesn't work it won't cost us a dime (foreign developer & nib is not a nama bank). Plus it will prob bring down the rent in the crescent which is very high.

Have you seen the state of Dunnes Stores on Sarsfield St? Building a S/C just to complete a derelict site and then it turning into a white elephant wont do much for an eyesore.

Have you seen the state of the site at groody? What would you prefer a finished building or a derelict site? Because without development it's going to stay as a site getting worse and worse each year! Plus that building in Sarsfield St is a poor comparison, it was as ugly as sin when it was built never mind 40yrs later. Finally I don't believe it will definitely be a white elephant, I'd imagine the anchor tenants would be in place before a block is laid (this fella seems to know what he is doing e.g. Opera centre).

Amazotheamazing

ABEasy wrote: »

I'd prefer a white elephant than a derelict building site!

I say let him build it (not that my opinion will make a difference), it will generate employment whilst it's built, generate development fees and rates for lmk co co and if it doesn't work it won't cost us a dime (foreign developer & nib is not a nama bank). Plus it will prob bring down the rent in the crescent which is very high.

Why not build it as something Limerick actually needs?

jc84

Even if no one was to move in wouldn't a finished centre look better than what's there now, retails down because of the economic slowdown but I have no doubt that things will pick up and who's to way the retail spaces won't be filled then

phog

ABEasy wrote: »

Have you seen the state of the site at groody? What would you prefer a finished building or a derelict site? Because without development it's going to stay as a site getting worse and worse each year! Plus that building in Sarsfield St is a poor comparison, it was as ugly as sin when it was built never mind 40yrs later. Finally I don't believe it will definitely be a white elephant, I'd imagine the anchor tenants would be in place before a block is laid (this fella seems to know what he is doing e.g. Opera centre).

jc84 wrote: »

Even if no one was to move in wouldn't a finished centre look better than what's there now, retails down because of the economic slowdown but I have no doubt that things will pick up and who's to way the retail spaces won't be filled then

Of course a new building will look better than a derelict site but if this centre does actually turn out to be a success then that will have other centres closing and turning into a derelict building. There simply isnt enough retail footfall in the Mid West to sustain all the retail property that is available not to mind adding to it.