Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

Gumbo

Guys, does it makes difference if your public sector?
I'm a bit confused as to my salary, as the gross figure, pension deductions and taxable salary etc

I just want to confirm if I will get the 51% saving or 23% saving.
Any way to work it out, I can PM somebody my details if they want. Thanks.

My payroll section said I will be down €24 per forthright if I spend the max €1000.

CramCycle

kceire wrote: »

Guys, does it makes difference if your public sector?
I'm a bit confused as to my salary, as the gross figure, pension deductions and taxable salary etc

I just want to confirm if I will get the 51% saving or 23% saving.
Any way to work it out, I can PM somebody my details if they want. Thanks.

My payroll section said I will be down €24 per forthright if I spend the max €1000.

If your in the top tax bracket you will get the higher saving, if your mainly int he lower bracket you will save the lower amount, if your under the lower tax bracket you won't save anything but you will have the benefit of paying interst free over the year.

its taken off your gross salary, so you dont pay tax that you would have normally paid through your wages.

John37

It states on the legislation for this that the BWT scheme can only be availed of once every 5 year period. I wonder how exact they are in terms of availing of it again i.e if you used it first time around in the say July 2009 could you avail of it in say January or Ferbruary next year or would it have to be strictly July next year i.e would there be a bit of leeway on using it again

Gumbo

John37 wrote: »

It states on the legislation for this that the BWT scheme can only be availed of once every 5 year period. I wonder how exact they are in terms of availing of it again i.e if you used it first time around in the say July 2009 could you avail of it in say January or Ferbruary next year or would it have to be strictly July next year i.e would there be a bit of leeway on using it again

It would be at your employers discretion, but as it amounts to tax fraud, I wouldn't expect them to allow you to do it.

Beasty

kceire wrote: »

It would be at your employers discretion, but as it amounts to tax fraud, I wouldn't expect them to allow you to do it.

If as you say it amounts to tax fraud the employer has no "discretion" whatsoever!!

If someone first availed in July 2009 they cannot avail again with the same employer until July 2014 at the earliest

dogsears

Beasty wrote: »

If as you say it amounts to tax fraud the employer has no "discretion" whatsoever!!

If someone first availed in July 2009 they cannot avail again with the same employer until July 2014 at the earliest

Actually what the legislation says is that a person cannot avail of the scheme "more than once in any period of 5 consecutive years of assessment" starting with the year in which they first get a bike under the scheme. A year of assessment equates to the calendar year. So if the first year is 2009, the 5 consecutive years of assessment are 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013.

That person can get another bike under the scheme in 2014 which would include Jan 2014. Conceivably this would be the same if they first used the scheme in Dec 2009. So the actual time period could be less than 5 years, it could in fact be just slightly over 4 years. No tax "fraud" in that - its exactly what the legislation provides.

John37

dogsears wrote: »

Actually what the legislation says is that a person cannot avail of the scheme "more than once in any period of 5 consecutive years of assessment" starting with the year in which they first get a bike under the scheme. A year of assessment equates to the calendar year. So if the first year is 2009, the 5 consecutive years of assessment are 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013.

That person can get another bike under the scheme in 2014 which would include Jan 2014. Conceivably this would be the same if they first used the scheme in Dec 2009. So the actual time period could be less than 5 years, it could in fact be just slightly over 4 years. No tax "fraud" in that - its exactly what the legislation provides.

Thats what I was thinking myself. Happy days. I will more then likely need a new bike at the turn of the year

kev23f

Hi all. I'm familiar with the operation of this scheme but have the following question concerning someone using the scheme when they have an expected leave date from a company.
So employee A is due to exit the company in 2 weeks. Final payroll run for this employee is within that 2 weeks where all final salary and/or deductions due will be processed.
Company practice is to deduct the full amount for bike to work scheme deductions in 1 payroll month only.
Given that the employee is due to exit, and all parties are aware of this, is there any reason why the scheme would not permit this scenario? Would the company be entitled to refuse the scheme to the employee, and, for example, tell him to avail of the scheme with his future employer instead?

CramCycle

If his final payroll will cover the entire price then no, they shouldn't really refuse him but it is at their discretion if they have a system in place they could say that it isn't plausible to accomodate his situation, depends on the company.

kev23f

Thanks Cramcycle - so you believe there is nothing in the Cycle To Work Scheme which mandates that the employee remain in the scheme for at least x period of time? Take a slightly different scenario - If the employee had no future employer "lined up" for example, is this not effectively out of line with the intent and spirit of the scheme? (ie cycling to work). Is that sufficient grounds to refuse the scheme?

I think the company will process this by the way, i would just like to ensure any potential issues are covered. Thanks again.

CramCycle

kev23f wrote: »

Thanks Cramcycle - so you believe there is nothing in the Cycle To Work Scheme which mandates that the employee remain in the scheme for at least x period of time? Take a slightly different scenario - If the employee had no future employer "lined up" for example, is this not effectively out of line with the intent and spirit of the scheme? (ie cycling to work). Is that sufficient grounds to refuse the scheme?

Once you intend to cycle it part of the journey to work while you are employed, then you are participating in the scheme.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Doctor Bob wrote: »

biketowork.ie is a commercial operator of the scheme. Not all employers use such a third party service, so their rules may not apply to the OP.

This is the best non-affiliated site for info: http://www.bikescheme.ie/

This site appears to be down/ gone? Or is it meant to be cyclescheme.ie?

Was looking at a Boardman bike in Halfords and was wondering if this Bikes4work voucher thing they're promoting (here) is one of those crowds looking to gouge you.

Doctor Bob

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

This site appears to be down/ gone? Or is it meant to be cyclescheme.ie?

Was looking at a Boardman bike in Halfords and was wondering if this Bikes4work voucher thing they're promoting (here) is one of those crowds looking to gouge you.

It was definitely working when I posted that link, but it's down for me now too.

Bikes4Work is one of the 3rd party providers, most/all of which take a ~10% cut as their fee. You'll still save a fair amount on the full sale price if using such a service is your only option, but the main purpose of said providers seem to be to mystify HR departments into farming out what is a very simple scheme to administer.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Doctor Bob wrote: »

It was definitely working when I posted that link, but it's down for me now too.

Bikes4Work is one of the 3rd party providers, most/all of which take a ~10% cut as their fee. You'll still save a fair amount on the full sale price if using such a service is your only option, but the main purpose of said providers seem to be to mystify HR departments into farming out what is a very simple scheme to administer.

Cool, cheers. I haven't even talking about it with my employers yet tbh. Though we're small enough and they're fairly laid back so I'm sure I can sort it out with them.

cassette50

Can I have my local shop order from Canyon..throw some extra on top for "administration" and purchase it through the scheme?

faigs

cassette50 wrote: »

Can I have my local shop order from Canyon..throw some extra on top for "administration" and purchase it through the scheme?

You'd have to ask your LBS - not sure it would be worth their while butting it through their stock and accounts. They'd prefer you to buy a bike they order in bulk so they can make a better margin on it.

faigs

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Cool, cheers. I haven't even talking about it with my employers yet tbh. Though we're small enough and they're fairly laid back so I'm sure I can sort it out with them.

I ordered off Halfords on the BTW today, wanted to use my Axa discount but you cant if you go through the One4All BTW scheme, but I told them I'd just be bringing in a cheque from work for the amount and didn't want to go though One4All so they allowed that and I got the discount

RainyDay

cassette50 wrote: »

Can I have my local shop order from Canyon..throw some extra on top for "administration" and purchase it through the scheme?

Do you reckon that tax fraud is a good thing?

cassette50

RainyDay wrote: »

Do you reckon that tax fraud is a good thing?

Tax Fraud:eek:...I won't be going down that road.

route66

RainyDay wrote: »

Do you reckon that tax fraud is a good thing?

No fraud there. Bike shop supplies a bike. Charges more than their purchase price :-o

Beasty

Just to be clear - if the shop charges more than the normal price to facilitate the purchase of "extras" that are not allowed under the scheme, that's tax fraud

route66

Beasty wrote: »

Just to be clear - if the shop charges more than the normal price to facilitate the purchase of "extras" that are not allowed under the scheme, that's tax fraud

Agreed. But I see no suggestion of that here.

Beasty

OK, maybe some confusion because of the terminology used

If your LBS buys the bike to re-sell to your employer at a profit that's fine and would qualify under the BTW scheme. It's still a new bike and it's being bought from a bike retailer

cassette50

So just to be clear - if they (bike shop) were for example to order the Canyon Roadlite AL 7.0 and sell it to my employer at 1500....no rules are being broken?

Beasty

cassette50 wrote: »

So just to be clear - if they (bike shop) were for example to order the Canyon Roadlite AL 7.0 and sell it to my employer at 1500....no rules are being broken?

Correct, but it would clearly be cheaper for your employer to buy it directly from Canyon, which also avoids any warranty issues

cassette50

Beasty wrote: »

Correct, but it would clearly be cheaper for your employer to buy it directly from Canyon, which also avoids any warranty issues

Thanks...so no tax fraud ...the problem is my employer will not order directly from Canyon (not on approved list of creditors) but the local bike shops are.

I was going to order the Road lite 6.0 myself outside of the scheme but it is out of stock in my size until mid May.

I'm hoping the local bike shop would order the Roadlite 7.0 as it's in stock an d I could then put it through the scheme.

It's just an idea at this stage.

drunkymonkey

Hi,

I ordered the one4all voucher for purchasing the bike. I haven't sent the cheque up to them yet. I work in a very small company that really want to do as little work as possible for getting the bike for me. The total for the bike and accessories is coming to 617€, can i just pay my employer 617€ straight off and receive the company cheque from them to send up to get the voucher, And receive the tax discount after? I don't want to go by paying month by month route, I want to pay it straight off and get the discount back.

How does my company/ myself claim for the discount after?

As i said it's a very small company that have never done or even heard of the scheme, I get paid every two weeks.

Thanks for your help.

aFlabbyPanda

Beasty wrote: »

Just to be clear - if the shop charges more than the normal price to facilitate the purchase of "extras" that are not allowed under the scheme, that's tax fraud

My LBS offered me the option to purchase the bike at X€ more than the retail price and take the extra money in vouchers/credit to be used in the shop. Didn't take them up on it though.

CramCycle

drunkymonkey wrote: »

And receive the tax discount after? I don't want to go by paying month by month route, I want to pay it straight off and get the discount back.

How does my company/ myself claim for the discount after?

The scheme doesn't really work like that. You (well your company) pay fullprice for the bike.

This valus is deducted from your salary, either all at once or bit by bit over 12 months.

The savings are not discounts. What happens is because it is deducted off your gross salary, you pay less income tax, PRSI etc. i.e. so while it looks like 617 is missing from your wages, you are actually paying less tax. If you bought the bike from your net wages, you would have had to have paid income tax etc. on a greater amount to get the 617euro, to pay for the bike yourself.

Your employer in turn pays less Employer PRSI.

As for the one4all voucher, technically, your employer should be paying the bike shop directly, i.e you should never have the cash in your hands but sometimes with small companies this is impractical. Your employer should also receive an invoice and receipt for the bicycle and the accessories as a one4all voucher isn't covered, but if you furnish them with the receipt/invoice, it should be all rosy.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

CramCycle wrote: »

The scheme doesn't really work like that. You (well your company) pay fullprice for the bike.

This valus is deducted from your salary, either all at once or bit by bit over 12 months.

The savings are not discounts. What happens is because it is deducted off your gross salary, you pay less income tax, PRSI etc. i.e. so while it looks like 617 is missing from your wages, you are actually paying less tax. If you bought the bike from your net wages, you would have had to have paid income tax etc. on a greater amount to get the 617euro, to pay for the bike yourself.

Your employer in turn pays less Employer PRSI.

As for the one4all voucher, technically, your employer should be paying the bike shop directly, i.e you should never have the cash in your hands but sometimes with small companies this is impractical. Your employer should also receive an invoice and receipt for the bicycle and the accessories as a one4all voucher isn't covered, but if you furnish them with the receipt/invoice, it should be all rosy.

So basically the employer paying for the bike in the first place is a must. However they can pretty much take it out of your gross pay straight away after that if you and your employer want?