Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

Inspector Coptoor

route66 wrote: »

Your work colleague needs to go on a "Tax calculations for beginners" course

Basically, 1000/12= €83.33 will be taken off your GROSS salary. Assuming they do it right you will see approximately €40 taken off your NET salary.

You could say nothing and just pay 20*12= €240 GROSS, but it would be dishonest and if/when found out, you'd be obliged to pay the difference I'd guess.

I get paid monthly & it's €83.33 coming off my gross wages.

Loving my bike.

jamesd

route66 wrote: »

Your work colleague needs to go on a "Tax calculations for beginners" course

Basically, 1000/12= €83.33 will be taken off your GROSS salary. Assuming they do it right you will see approximately €40 taken off your NET salary.

You could say nothing and just pay 20*12= €240 GROSS, but it would be dishonest and if/when found out, you'd be obliged to pay the difference I'd guess.

Better to be honest I think in the long run so I gave her your calculations with the "Tax calculations for beginners" course as she pays my wages and they always seem to look good

jamesd

dogsears wrote: »

€20 per month doesn't make sense - comes to only €240 over the year. €20 per week might be right (are you weekly paid?) as 20 @ 50 weeks comes to €1000? Or maybe its the monthly equivalent of €20 per week, if you know what I mean.

Yes she just came back to me and to make it even stranger she said she wanted to do it over 2 years so had been only taking €10 per week from my wages (I am paid weekly not monthly sorry). I asked her to sort it out and come back to me as the max for the scheme is 12 months.

Stephen_C

Is it possible to buy bikes from Evans Cycles on the bike to work scheme. I keep on getting different information from different people.

First I was told that Evans would have to invoice my employer in Euros (which they won't) then I was told it didn't matter what currency the invoice was as long as the amount in Euros is provided to the bike to work scheme.

I wanted to confirm this so I rang revenue and was told that I could only buy bikes from a list of registered suppliers (of which Evans isn't one), I've since been told that that list is for Civil and Public Servants only and that it doesn't matter where your bike is bought as long as they invoice your employer.

My employer is not VAT registered so am I right in thinking that all I have to do is get Evans to invoice my employer and then get them to pay by credit card?

Evans are the sole distributor for the bike I want to get, even shops that used to stock them here can no longer get them.

Idleater

You are allowed to instruct your employer to purchase a bike on your behalf. They choose what limitations to impose on where you can instruct them to purchase from.

I. E., if your employer says that they will pay Evans for a bike for you, happy days.

Soarer

Idleater wrote: »

You are allowed to instruct your employer to purchase a bike on your behalf. They choose what limitations to impose on where you can instruct them to purchase from.

I. E., if your employer says that they will pay Evans for a bike for you, happy days.

Yup.

I could've bought my bike from Canyon, but they wouldn't accept a cheque...and that's what my company uses.

dogsears

Stephen_C wrote: »

I wanted to confirm this so I rang revenue and was told that I could only buy bikes from a list of registered suppliers (of which Evans isn't one), I've since been told that that list is for Civil and Public Servants only and that it doesn't matter where your bike is bought as long as they invoice your employer.

What Revenue told you was wrong. The only limitations (if any) re where to purchase will come from your employer.

From the Revenue FAQ on the scheme (http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/cycle-work-faqs.pdf):

"Can employees choose the bicycle/safety equipment themselves?
It is for employers to decide how they will operate the scheme. Some employers may allow employees to select the bicycle/safety equipment from the retailer of their choice and the employer may then put in place appropriate invoicing and delivery arrangements with the retailer.

Other employers may offer more limited options to employees. An employer could, for example, allow any employee to choose only from the range available from a single retailer."

from_atozinc

I know, yet another thread on bike to work scheme.

I've checked up the FAQ's but can't find the answer I'm looking for.

Thing is my employer only has the bike to work scheme open at certain times of the year. The next slot its open is mid September

But I'd like a bike now

I have no bother buying the bike now myself with me own cash

Can I buy the bike now early with my own cash and still avail of the bike to work scheme through work and still avail of the savings ?

Vizzy

It will very much depend on your employer and the bike shop.
The way the scheme works is that the bike shop issues an invoice to your employer(not you) so if I were you I would at least check with your employer to ensure that you will qualify for the scheme and that they are happy to allow you to buy a bike under the scheme now, rather than in Sept.

dogsears

from_atozinc wrote: »

I know, yet another thread on bike to work scheme.

I've checked up the FAQ's but can't find the answer I'm looking for.

Thing is my employer only has the bike to work scheme open at certain times of the year. The next slot its open is mid September

But I'd like a bike now

I have no bother buying the bike now myself with me own cash

Can I buy the bike now early with my own cash and still avail of the bike to work scheme through work and still avail of the savings ?

Employers can set the rules they like - the tax break is entirely in the context of an employer provided facility. They are under no obligation to put in place a scheme, or to implement one with rules that suit their staff or even make sense. You might think they would want to suit their staff but often the perceived level of admin outstrips that and you end up with a scheme that feels imperfect, such as when you want a bike now, but they only provide the opportunity at certain times in the year.

However take great care when thinking about stepping outside those rules, no matter what you think of them. Check out the FAQ on the Revenue website (http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/cycle-work-faqs.pdf) - you'll see that the employer must purchase the bike in order for you to avail of the tax break. What you're proposing would not accord with that, and it wouldn't be within your employer's rules. So you could be rightly goosed.

I think you need to talk to your employer to see if there is any flexibility in their method of operating the scheme. Not letting people use the scheme until the good weather is virtually gone is obviously not the mark of a scheme that's been thought through, so I would be surprised if there was much wiggle room (I know this from experience, my own employer only allows a short window even later in the year - hope you have better luck!)

gerrowadat

from_atozinc wrote: »

I know, yet another thread on bike to work scheme.

I've checked up the FAQ's but can't find the answer I'm looking for.

Thing is my employer only has the bike to work scheme open at certain times of the year. The next slot its open is mid September

But I'd like a bike now

I have no bother buying the bike now myself with me own cash

Can I buy the bike now early with my own cash and still avail of the bike to work scheme through work and still avail of the savings ?

A lot of retailers are grand with you paying cash, then refunding you when you get the voucher. The voucher is actually good for a year, and is as good as cash to them. This is what I did with mine (I've yet to go back to the shop with the voucher, so I'm assuming nothing will go wrong there, the shop managed to dick up most other things to do with the transaction so here's hoping).

Beasty

from_atozinc wrote: »

I've checked up the FAQ's but can't find the answer I'm looking for.

Really? So why did you start a new thread when the megathread is clearly linked from the FAQs

(it's a rhetorical question - PM me if you want to discuss further)

Threads merged

Beasty

gerrowadat wrote: »

A lot of retailers are grand with you paying cash, then refunding you when you get the voucher. The voucher is actually good for a year, and is as good as cash to them. This is what I did with mine (I've yet to go back to the shop with the voucher, so I'm assuming nothing will go wrong there, the shop managed to dick up most other things to do with the transaction so here's hoping).

If the employee uses cash and then gets the employer to reimburse them it's the employee that buys the bike and the scheme cannot be used. The employer must buy the bike then sell (or gift) it to the employee

The bike shop does not care whether it receives cash or not as the BTW scheme is nothing to do with them. All they are interested in is making the sale and taking the money

from_atozinc

gerrowadat wrote: »

A lot of retailers are grand with you paying cash, then refunding you when you get the voucher. The voucher is actually good for a year, and is as good as cash to them. This is what I did with mine (I've yet to go back to the shop with the voucher, so I'm assuming nothing will go wrong there, the shop managed to dick up most other things to do with the transaction so here's hoping).

So if it was to work , would it work something like this

> I explain the situation to the bike shop and hope they agree
> As I said I want the bike now and the scheme in my workplace does not open until Mid September
> I buy the bike off the bike shop now and pay them with my personal credit card.
> Come September when the bike to work scheme re opens at my workplace, I go to the bike shop and get an invoice with the amount I paid and THE SEPTEMBER DATE on the invoice. ( i.e. not todays date, I presume it has to be the September date on the invoice )
> Present this Invoice to my workplace and wait for them to issue my bike voucher
> Bring the voucher back to the shop and they issue me a refund to my credit card for the amount I should be saving on the tax free savings

Beasty

from_atozinc wrote: »

So if it was to work , would it work something like this

> I explain the situation to the bike shop and hope they agree
> As I said I want the bike now and the scheme in my workplace does not open until Mid September
> I buy the bike off the bike shop now and pay them with my personal credit card.
> Come September when the bike to work scheme re opens at my workplace, I go to the bike shop and get an invoice with the amount I paid and THE SEPTEMBER DATE on the invoice. ( i.e. not todays date, I presume it has to be the September date on the invoice )
> Present this Invoice to my workplace and wait for them to issue my bike voucher
> Bring the voucher back to the shop and they issue me a refund to my credit card for the amount I should be saving on the tax free savings

Sorry, but that would be tax fraud

The employer must buy the bike as I outlined in my previous post. If you buy it directly the scheme is not available. The bike must be new/unused when bought by the employer

from_atozinc

Beasty wrote: »

Sorry, but that would be tax fraud

The employer must buy the bike as I outlined in my previous post. If you buy it directly the scheme is not available. The bike must be new/unused when bought by the employer

Whats tax fraud is me gettin ridden since I started working and paying tax and then my tax being increased every year and USC etc. but thats another matter.

This is my one chance to actually get something back from all the thousands upon thousands ive payed in tax over the last 15 years and its labelled as tax fraud.

In Fairness, im not ripping anyone off really, its all innocent, compared to the sh1t thats gone on in this country

EDIT : And beasty im not getting bould with you , just mad with the whole stoopid system

bren2001

from_atozinc wrote: »

Whats tax fraud is me gettin ridden since I started working and paying tax and then my tax being increased every year and USC etc. but thats another matter.

This is my one chance to actually get something back from all the thousands ive payed in tax over teh last 15 years and its labelled as tax fraud.

In Fairness, im not ripping anyone off really, its all innocent, compared to the sh1t thats gone on in this country

And beasty im not getting bould with you , just with the whole stoopid system

It is tax fraud. To avoid it being tax fraud, you could just wait until the scheme opens in your workplace.

dogsears

from_atozinc wrote: »

Whats tax fraud is me gettin ridden since I started working and paying tax and then my tax being increased every year and USC etc. but thats another matter.

This is my one chance to actually get something back from all the thousands upon thousands ive payed in tax over the last 15 years and its labelled as tax fraud.

In Fairness, im not ripping anyone off really, its all innocent, compared to the sh1t thats gone on in this country

EDIT : And beasty im not getting bould with you , just mad with the whole stoopid system

Even if you having to pay tax was a fraud (its not - it might be unfair to many eyes, but its not fraud) you can't answer one wrong with another as if they cancelled out.

What you were suggesting involves misrepresenting the truth of the matter - especially the part about the September date. That's what makes it wrong.

For sure fraud is a strong word to use for an amount that's small in comparison to bankers bonuses etc and as you say, its easy to feel you're not doing anything wrong by getting something early that you could get in September anyway. But fraud is what it is.

Talk to your employer about opening the scheme at a date that's more suitable to bike riding, or else wait till September.

Squidgy Black

Would you not just save yourself all that hassle and just wait a month?

from_atozinc

stetyrrell wrote: »

Would you not just save yourself all that hassle and just wait a month?

I could. But would just be nice to have it now with the half decent weather.

I'm not trying to trick anyone or purposely do fraud. All I simply want is a bike to cycle on these nice evenings , nothing sinister etc.

gerrowadat

I don't agree it's tax fraud any anything but the most technical sense. Nobody's being swindled out of anything. You pay cash for a bike that's yours right away, then afterwards the tax stuff gets sorted by the company paying for your refund from the bike shop. The company still pays for the bike you specified in the voucher application, you still pay the same tax.

I know I was told by my employer this was fine, and the shop I bought from even had an A4 printed sheet they gave me with my invoice on how to do this.

It's tax fraud like sticking your tongue out is assault tbh.

Beasty

gerrowadat wrote: »

I don't agree it's tax fraud any anything but the most technical sense. Nobody's being swindled out of anything. You pay cash for a bike that's yours right away, then afterwards the tax stuff gets sorted by the company paying for your refund from the bike shop. The company still pays for the bike you specified in the voucher application, you still pay the same tax.

I know I was told by my employer this was fine, and the shop I bought from even had an A4 printed sheet they gave me with my invoice on how to do this.

It's tax fraud like sticking your tongue out is assault tbh.

It's tax fraud - Boards does not allow discussion on how to evade taxes (or indeed breaking any other laws) - any further questions PM me - no further discussion of this in-thread

jimmer123

Can anyone tell me if this is going to work.

I am opting to have the full €1000 taken out in my pay at the end of this month as I am going part time hopefully in September.

Will I get the full saving doing it this way??

Idleater

jimmer123 wrote: »

Will I get the full saving doing it this way??

Only if you earn €1000 more than ( €32,800 + any BIK/pension/medical/other pre tax amount)

Beasty

Idleater wrote: »

Only if you earn €1000 more than ( €32,800 + any BIK/pension/medical/other pre tax amount)

... during the current Calendar year

jimmer123

ok so ive been on a 34k salary up till now....going to go part time in sept if HR finally get back to me. What will happen in the next pay packet?

CramCycle

Take your gross wages per month, subtract 1000euro (your paying all at once right), and then work out your tax as if the new number was your gross. If your going to PT, you may get more back at the end of the year or from revenue next year as your monthly tax is usually calculated based on that being your pay as per usual for the 12 months, but in your last five you will pay less and over the year your average will actually be less than 34k.

padyjoe

I wonder what happens if you want to purchase your bike abroad but your company using vouchers? (Probably they won't let me buy the bike directly I always hearing about middlemen:-((() Some great bikes to be had in the UK for reduced price at the moment. I keep looking locally but can't any sale going on. Or if there's a sale no bike in stock in my size.

CramCycle

How do you mean vouchers?

Nothing in the scheme to stop you buying abroad, solely at the discretion of your company whether they allow it or not.

As for middlemen, if they are a bike shop, they could buy it and re sell it onto you, that is it.

padyjoe

Thank you! Sorry I meant to say: my company is using bike scheme crowd (raliegh2work or something...) so when you join the btw they first tell the voucher middleman what and how, then they issue the voucher to my hr, after I can buy the bike using the voucher. By middlemen I meant bike scheme companies which are administrating (I think) and issuing the vouchers not the bike shops. I suppose in that case you won't be able to buy your bike directly. I've never asked though.