Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

pegdrums

cdaly_ wrote: »

Just be aware that you cannot use cash to pay it off early or you don't get the tax benefits. Payroll must take the amount from your pay while you keep the cash in your pocket.

Duly noted.

CramCycle

You could just put the cash into a savings account, which would have the same effect? Release it monthly or even better, try and leave it in there.

Beasty

CramCycle wrote: »

even better, try and leave it in there.

Start of the "next bike fund"

pegdrums

CramCycle wrote: »

You could just put the cash into a savings account, which would have the same effect? Release it monthly or even better, try and leave it in there.

Good idea.

There is always the danger of spending months looking at bike porn and researching all the little differences and then which way is best to pay it off.
Part of me wants to get a €100 second hand carera and just start abusing it! Keep the pennies building up in the mean time and in 6 months get something awesome.

iwillhtfu

Yeah.. That'd be fraud bud and frowned upon in here

rubadub

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Yeah.. That'd be fraud bud and frowned upon in here

It does not have to be fraudulent. He asked if there is a way, there is, you have to buy a bike. So the shop gets some old scrap frame, hands him the components and tells him "there is some minor assembly required with that bike"

there may be other loopholes.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/paye/guide/employers-guide-paye-definition.html#section6.6

Where an employer incurs an expense of less than €1,000 in year one in the provision of a bicycle and/or associated safety equipment, and incurs further costs within a 5-year period, the employee will not be able to claim the exemption in respect of the difference between €1,000 and the amount spent by the employer within the 5-year period.

that sounds like you could just by "associated safety equipment".

So maybe a shop could sell something on that list, like a puncture repair kit for a few hunderd euro and throw in the groupset free.

cython

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Yeah.. That'd be fraud bud and frowned upon in here

Or your post might be misinterpretation.....

pegdrums wrote: »

Good idea.

There is always the danger of spending months looking at bike porn and researching all the little differences and then which way is best to pay it off.
Part of me wants to get a €100 second hand carera and just start abusing it! Keep the pennies building up in the mean time and in 6 months get something awesome.

I took from this that the poster was looking at getting a beater now for €100, and saving up to top up their BTW in 6 months to get a better purchase out of it overall. Of course I could be misinterpreting too

cython

rubadub wrote: »

It does not have to be fraudulent. He asked if there is a way, there is, you have to buy a bike. So the shop gets some old scrap frame, hands him the components and tells him "there is some minor assembly required with that bike"

Nope. Taxes Consolidation Act expressly forbids what you have described (meaning that would in fact be fraud, unless somehow the old scrap frame was brand new, and Revenue guidelines are clear on selling a complete bike, not one built from disparate frame and components):

(5G) (a) Subject to paragraph (c) of this subsection, subsection (1) shall not apply to expense of up to €1,000 incurred by the body corporate in, or in connection with, the provision for a director or employee of a bicycle or bicycle safety equipment, where—
(i) the bicycle and bicycle safety equipment provided is unused and not second-hand,
(ii) the director or employee uses the bicycle or bicycle safety equipment, or the bicycle and the bicycle safety equipment, as the case may be, mainly for qualifying journeys, and
(iii) bicycles or bicycle safety equipment, or bicycles and bicycle safety equipment, as the case may be, are made available generally to directors and employees of the body corporate.

rubadub wrote: »

there may be other loopholes.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/paye/guide/employers-guide-paye-definition.html#section6.6


that sounds like you could just by "associated safety equipment".

So maybe a shop could sell something on that list, like a puncture repair kit for a few hunderd euro and throw in the groupset free.

And that would in fact be blatant fraud

rubadub

cython wrote: »

Nope. Taxes Consolidation Act expressly forbids what you have described (meaning that would in fact be fraud, unless somehow the old scrap frame was brand new, and Revenue guidelines are clear on selling a complete bike, not one built from disparate frame and components

Right, so it reads to me like you could still have a €100 full new bike and slap an expensive groupset on it. Doesn't sound like it cannot be built by the shop.

cython wrote: »

And that would in fact be blatant fraud

is it? if the shop threw in a rain cover for the helmet you bought on the scheme is that also blatant fraud (or some other minor item not on the list). Is there an instance where it could qualify, if the helmet shipped with the cover as standard I expect they could do nothing. So if they cannot throw it in stuff for "free" there could be a business there. A groupset company could start selling puncture repair kits with groupsets free in the same package, labelled primarily as repair kits. Its blatantly obvious what they are doing but would it pass in law?

I am not sure if its true or went on a lot but I heard when sunday trading was illegal here hardware shops would sell say an apple for £50 and throw in a free drill.

cython

rubadub wrote: »

Right, so it reads to me like you could still have a €100 full new bike and slap an expensive groupset on it. Doesn't sound like it cannot be built by the shop.

They might get away with that, and indeed I've heard of shops selling bikes on the scheme with a "non-standard spec". Still a distinct difference from scrap frame with parts in a box though!

rubadub wrote: »

is it? if the shop threw in a rain cover for the helmet you bought on the scheme is that also blatant fraud (or some other minor item not on the list). Is there an instance where it could qualify, if the helmet shipped with the cover as standard I expect they could do nothing. So if they cannot throw it in stuff for "free" there could be a business there. A groupset company could start selling puncture repair kits with groupsets free in the same package, labelled primarily as repair kits. Its blatantly obvious what they are doing but would it pass in law?

IMHO you wouldn't be long in proving intent to either commit or facilitate tax fraud/evasion in that instance, and from there the Revenue wouldn't have to work hard to get a case. Especially if they put the same repair kit without the freebie on the shelf beside it for a realistic price! Your helmet cover analogy is beyond flawed, in the sense that a freebie with a fractional value of the purchase is a completely different planet (let alone ball park) to a groupset worth several hundred times as much as the "primary" purchase.

rubadub wrote: »

I am not sure if its true or went on a lot but I heard when sunday trading was illegal here hardware shops would sell say an apple for £50 and throw in a free drill.

Just because something happens or may have happened doesn't mean that it is or was permitted/legal, so not sure of your point here?

rubadub

cython wrote: »

Your helmet cover analogy is beyond flawed, in the sense that a freebie with a fractional value of the purchase is a completely different planet (let alone ball park) to a groupset worth several hundred times as much as the "primary" purchase.

You say "beyond flawed" but then talk of fractional values. This is the type of thing I am wondering about, is there such a thing in law to cover stuff like this, is there legal terminology for such things and is it covered.

If the groupset and repair kit are never sold separately then how do they put a value on them.

My examples are of course extreme on purpose, but there would have to come a point where it does seem reasonable. By describing my helmet cover as being "on a completely different planet" are you saying they could get away with it. If so when do you think it becomes fraud, as say a fractional value.

cython wrote: »

Just because something happens or may have happened doesn't mean that it is or was permitted/legal, so not sure of your point here?

someone may have remembered and might have been able to point to newspaper articles which might have said it was legally challenged and the shops were allowed to do it.

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: I am satisfied it is PAYE fraud in that it is attempting to circumvent paying tax due via misuse of the scheme, and such things are well detailed on revenues website. If you can find proof in paper or from a statement of revenue to the contrary, then PM me and we can revisit this discussion, for now, leave it there.

pegdrums

cython wrote: »

Or your post might be misinterpretation.....

I took from this that the poster was looking at getting a beater now for €100, and saving up to top up their BTW in 6 months to get a better purchase out of it overall. Of course I could be misinterpreting too

Thank you!
This is exactly what I meant and nothing more.

That got out of control quickly!

By different ways of paying it off I was windering if i could pay off the remainder after a few months.
By NO MEANS was I interested in any sort of fraud.

I had to add that as it was my post that stirred it up.

iwillhtfu

My post was taken completely out of context there lads.

Someone posted about getting a groupset on the bike to work. It's since been deleted.

Pegdrums it wasn't aimed at your post in any way

cython

iwillhtfu wrote: »

My post was taken completely out of context there lads.

Someone posted about getting a groupset on the bike to work. It's since been deleted.

Pegdrums it wasn't aimed at your post in any way

Ah, apologies in that case. See that's why I tend to quote people, and then at least I have the context if they're sneaky

Pivot Eoin

Hi All,

Been a while since I posted here. I used to have a nice Felt F95 Sora setup a few years back, but sold it for dough and to clear out space when I moved to Canada.

Now back in Dublin, and looking to cycle the commute everyday - anyone recommend a few shops to go looking for my new bike?

Ideally can pick up again Sora or higher Groupset, Aluminium Frame, Perhaps Carbon Forks (Not a biggie).

Thanks for input.

IrishLad90

Get a job, join bike to work scheme save on your purchase and have the brilliant tale to tell .. plus you dont have to worry about where to get your bike as the job will pick the store for you and whether your bike is an acceptable choice

Pivot Eoin

IrishLad90 wrote: »

Get a job, join bike to work scheme save on your purchase and have the brilliant tale to tell .. plus you dont have to worry about where to get your bike as the job will pick the store for you and whether your bike is an acceptable choice

Got a job thanks, hence why I said commute! Yes I'll be doing Bike to work of course.

Dont really wanna go too much more than 700, be perfectly happy with the setup I described above, saving for a mortgage right now so just being smart with purchases.

godtabh

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

Got a job thanks, hence why I said commute! Yes I'll be doing Bike to work of course.

Dont really wanna go too much more than 700, be perfectly happy with the setup I described above, saving for a mortgage right now so just being smart with purchases.

If you are on the higher tax bracket go for the full €1000 to get the best benifit

magicbastarder

IrishLad90 wrote: »

plus you dont have to worry about where to get your bike as the job will pick the store for you and whether your bike is an acceptable choice

depends on the employer, some/many allow the employee to pick the store themselves. so best to shop local where possible.

Pivot Eoin - that'd be worth checking out, what options are available to you, assuming your employer offers the cycle to work scheme and what restrictions they may have placed on it.

Tenzor07

Have a look on Adverts or donedeal and pick up a second hand bike

_Brian

godtabh wrote: »

If you are on the higher tax bracket go for the full ?1000 to get the best benifit

The "spend more to save more" plan has one critical flaw - your spending more !!

I can see some logic for those who have unlimited funds but I was shopping for bikes myself recently and got sick of sales men advising me to go right to the limit because "I'd be saving more", they didn't seem to see a problem with me spending more to save the money and I'm sure it was no coincidence that their revenue would be boosted too.

Spend what you can afford OP.

magicbastarder

ah, i don't think most people would quantify it as saving more - it's getting the best value, rather than saving; especially since it's not a fund you can dip into repeatedly until you hit the limit.

if you're on the higher tax bracket, the difference to your pocket on spending €1000 as opposed to €700 is about €3 per week.

smacl

For €700 you're at the lower end of things for a road bike so I'd tend to ring around and see what the different shops have rather than pinning yourself to one recommended shop. Could well be some LBS has a good discounted 2016 model knocking around in your size which is what I'd be going for at that money. I'd also consider looking at a bike with a nice frame and carbon fork on a lesser group set such as Claris (i.e. rebadged 8 speed Sora) and have the group setearmarked as a future upgrade.

Hani Kosti

magicbastarder wrote:

Pivot Eoin - that'd be worth checking out, what options are available to you, assuming your employer offers the cycle to work scheme and what restrictions they may have placed on it.

To actually answer your question regardless of how much you save or not Wheelworx might be able to offer some decent options, Cycle Superstore in Tallaght is another one.
Definitely worthwhile having look in local shops for older models that would fit your budget.
Some shops provide free bike service so if local enough that's another benefit to consider
Good luck hunting!

Star hurl

Staggs in lucan worth a look I got a nice Thompson with Claris and fulcrum 7 wheels around the price your looking at . It was my only bike for commuting and club spins for four years

Star hurl

Staggs in lucan worth a look I got a nice Thompson with Claris and fulcrum 7 wheels around the price your looking at . It was my only bike for commuting and club spins for four years

Pivot Eoin

My thinking behind the 700euro was that was around (Actually higher) than what my Felt F95 cost with new pedals, new saddle, extra tubes etc. And it was more than enough for my fat arse. So I dont really see any need to go much higher this time. Maybe a nice 105 setup would tempt me on a good bike.

Annie get your Run

Star hurl wrote: »

Staggs in lucan worth a look I got a nice Thompson with Claris and fulcrum 7 wheels around the price your looking at . It was my only bike for commuting and club spins for four years

+1 to Staggs, also, I got a second hand bike there on the bike to work scheme so for €700 you could get a better spec bike that's a couple of years old.

cython

Annie get your Run wrote: »

+1 to Staggs, also, I got a second hand bike there on the bike to work scheme so for €700 you could get a better spec bike that's a couple of years old.

While you may have done that, it's against the legislation that facilitates the scheme, so I'd not be proposing it as an option for the OP as it's basically tax fraud.