Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

CramCycle

Agent_47 wrote: »

Just remember, a voucher like Bikes4work up to the full value of €1,000 is not the same as €1,000 in cash.

a number of bikeshops tell me they get charged 10% by Bikes4work when redeeming the voucher, so you are effectively losing €100 leverage in transactions over €1,000. You effectively have €900. I had hoped to get 10% off the bike but find I can only get 10% off the cash element above the voucher value.

Its a bug bare of mine as my current employer uses them, but they actually shunt all of the work they claim to save them back onto them and the employee. You are basically losing 10% of the value of your bike for absolutely no benefit whatsoever. I think it has also been pointed out if you were a pedant about the letter of the law, they are not a bike shop, and they are selling vouchers, so technically, they are facilitating fraud, albeit not against the spirit of the law.

JonnyMarbles

CramCycle wrote: »

Its a bug bare of mine as my current employer uses them, but they actually shunt all of the work they claim to save them back onto them and the employee. You are basically losing 10% of the value of your bike for absolutely no benefit whatsoever. I think it has also been pointed out if you were a pedant about the letter of the law, they are not a bike shop, and they are selling vouchers, so technically, they are facilitating fraud, albeit not against the spirit of the law.

I don't understand?

How do you lose 10% buying power with bike to work?

Fighting Tao

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

I don't understand?

How do you lose 10% buying power with bike to work?

It’s the admin fee that the voucher company takes. So your company pays the voucher company €1000. You give the voucher to the bike shop. When the bike shop redeems it they only get €900.

JonnyMarbles

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It’s the admin fee that the voucher company takes. So your company pays the voucher company €1000. You give the voucher to the bike shop. When the bike shop redeems it they only get €900.

So it's the bike shop losing out?

It's not me. You don't really have 900 quid.

It's more like, the people buying without the bike to work need to get 10% off or else they're getting overcharged.

Mickiemcfist

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

It's more like, the people buying without the bike to work need to get 10% off or else they're getting overcharged.

Or people using cash get more for their 1000 than those who use B2W.

CramCycle

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Or people using cash get more for their 1000 than those who use B2W.

Pretty much, too make the sale, without the voucher crowd, the bike shop is more likely to throw in additional items at cost to seal the deal, so you might get your lock and lights at a huge discount compared to the RRP. Bike shops may also increase the selling price of certain bikes as they are clearly marketed towards the atypical bike to work users. If they know you and value your custom, they might give you a discount as they know you will return, that option is gone to them now.

plodder

One thing to look out for with the likes of Halfords is they might run a sale promotion with a discount off many bikes. You go into the store and see the bike you want has the discount, but then when you actually try to buy it, they tell you the promotion doesn't apply with bikes4work vouchers. That happened to me and I already had the voucher organised with their name on it, so had to suck it up with the higher price. Wasn't a huge difference really, but it's worth checking details like this before you commit yourself.

Hurrache

Some stores will allow you to buy the bike outright yourself, and will then refund you when you get your voucher. I doubt Halfords would fit into that category, but it's how I managed to pick up a bike in a sale prior to my next scheme window opening up.

CramCycle

plodder wrote: »

One thing to look out for with the likes of Halfords is they might run a sale promotion with a discount off many bikes. You go into the store and see the bike you want has the discount, but then when you actually try to buy it, they tell you the promotion doesn't apply with bikes4work vouchers. That happened to me and I already had the voucher organised with their name on it, so had to suck it up with the higher price. Wasn't a huge difference really, but it's worth checking details like this before you commit yourself.

I went to buy a sale bike this way, not in Halfords, but when the shop realised I was paying a large portion with the B2W voucher, they rang and apologised, they had taken the price down to clear stock rather than return but that it would actually cost them money to sell me the bike at that price. It had such a good discount, I just paid the 100euro extra so that they were still breaking even. They said many of those voucher companies are a pain to deal with, slow to move money to their accounts, to the point they had to hold bikes back to force them to release the funds. I have a strong dislike of those voucher places but I understand that most of the users of the B2W scheme are not regular cyclists starting out, have no built in knowledge of the benefits of having a good LBS and in their mind, just want the easiest solution.

Hurrache

I think it's more so the employer wanting the easiest solution so they outsource all the related work.

cgc5483

plodder wrote: »

One thing to look out for with the likes of Halfords is they might run a sale promotion with a discount off many bikes. You go into the store and see the bike you want has the discount, but then when you actually try to buy it, they tell you the promotion doesn't apply with bikes4work vouchers. That happened to me and I already had the voucher organised with their name on it, so had to suck it up with the higher price. Wasn't a huge difference really, but it's worth checking details like this before you commit yourself.

They don't always do that. Got a bike last year from Halfords. Original quote for for previous model which was down to €900 to clear. Was gone by the time I actually got the bikes4work voucher so they gave me the new model which for retailing for €1200 instead without any cost to me

CramCycle

Hurrache wrote: »

I think it's more so the employer wanting the easiest solution so they outsource all the related work.

But there is the thing, its actually not less work for the accountant. For big firms, who have accountants, this should be a doddle. For the Civil and Public service, same thing. Small companies will have smaller staff numbers, so other than putting some restrictions, it should again be easier to do themselves. I've seen the paperwork they make you fill out for the voucher schemes, you essentially do all the work for them and they take 100quid for the privilege.

C3PO

CramCycle wrote: »

But there is the thing, its actually not less work for the accountant. For big firms, who have accountants, this should be a doddle. For the Civil and Public service, same thing. Small companies will have smaller staff numbers, so other than putting some restrictions, it should again be easier to do themselves. I've seen the paperwork they make you fill out for the voucher schemes, you essentially do all the work for them and they take 100quid for the privilege.

I know for sure that the company I work for would not offer CTW without the services of a "Voucher Company"! I think the point you are possibly missing is that in most larger companies the scheme will be run by HR rather than Finance and HR, certainly where I work, will always look for the easiest (for them) solution!

chillywilly

I’m a bit confused, hopefully someone can clarify.

I recent got a bike through the scheme. The invoice was for €924 in total which my employee paid.

I got my pay slip this month and it looks like €77 was deducted (I.e 924 over 12 months.

Am I right in saying this is incorrect? Surely the deduction should include the tax saving or am I missing something?

cletus

chillywilly wrote: »

I’m a bit confused, hopefully someone can clarify.

I recent got a bike through the scheme. The invoice was for €924 in total which my employee paid.

I got my pay slip this month and it looks like €77 was deducted (I.e 924 over 12 months.

Am I right in saying this is incorrect? Surely the deduction should include the tax saving or am I missing something?

If you have a look, the deduction should be made pre-tax, or from your gross wage, rather than from your net wage. That's where the tax saving is made

magicbastarder

yep; how much has your take home pay changed? you should expect your gross wage to fall by the actual price of the bike over the 12 months.

TheShow

chillywilly wrote: »

I’m a bit confused, hopefully someone can clarify.

I recent got a bike through the scheme. The invoice was for €924 in total which my employee paid.

I got my pay slip this month and it looks like €77 was deducted (I.e 924 over 12 months.

Am I right in saying this is incorrect? Surely the deduction should include the tax saving or am I missing something?

The deduction is before tax, so while the deduction is c€77 pm, your net wage will have only decreased by c€38 based on top rate of tax.

You are actually paying the full price, but the benefit is the tax relief.

CramCycle

C3PO wrote: »

I know for sure that the company I work for would not offer CTW without the services of a "Voucher Company"! I think the point you are possibly missing is that in most larger companies the scheme will be run by HR rather than Finance and HR, certainly where I work, will always look for the easiest (for them) solution!

The funny thing is though, it is, as far as I can tell, not easier, in fact, its possibly more work through the voucher company but like all great Snake oil salesman, they make you think its easier, its certainly alot more work for HR from what I can see.

Mickiemcfist

Can b2w be used to buy just bike parts (i.e. a set of wheels)?

magicbastarder

no, it must be a bicycle. you can buy standard accessories with the bike, though.

David6330

I was wondering if I could just get the standard equipment such as panniers, helmet, cycling jacket etc. through the scheme?

I already have a bike and not looking to upgrade it.

iwillhtfu

David6330 wrote: »

I was wondering if I could just get the standard equipment such as panniers, helmet, cycling jacket etc. through the scheme?

I already have a bike and not looking to upgrade it.

No, the clue is in the name of the scheme.

magicbastarder

would be a waste of the scheme to only go for a few items anyway (which you can't do without buying a bike). you can only access it once every five years, whether you spend €200 or the max €1000.

mirrormatrix

Unless you found someone to do some pretty creative invoicing for you

TheShow

David6330 wrote: »

I was wondering if I could just get the standard equipment such as panniers, helmet, cycling jacket etc. through the scheme?

I already have a bike and not looking to upgrade it.

does your kid need a bike?

CramCycle

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Unless you found someone to do some pretty creative invoicing for you

MOD VOICE: Which of course we would not condone or recommend on this site as it is akin to tax evasion

LollipopJimmy

CramCycle wrote: »

The funny thing is though, it is, as far as I can tell, not easier, in fact, its possibly more work through the voucher company but like all great Snake oil salesman, they make you think its easier, its certainly alot more work for HR from what I can see.

It's for accounting purposes as far as I can see - one4all or whoever would be set up as a vendor.

It's a load of pox because the bike shop loose a fortune

D13exile

Bought my current bike (Trek Domane with Tiagra groupset) under the BTW scheme in September 2014. While I've kept my bike in good nick, it has done considerable mileage and I'd like to upgrade to a better groupset and possible disc brakes. Am I eligible now to get another bike under BTW or do I have to wait until September this year?

CramCycle

D13exile wrote: »

Bought my current bike (Trek Domane with Tiagra groupset) under the BTW scheme in September 2014. While I've kept my bike in good nick, it has done considerable mileage and I'd like to upgrade to a better groupset and possible disc brakes. Am I eligible now to get another bike under BTW or do I have to wait until September this year?

Eligible now unless your employer has specific rules as the scheme is within the tax year.

jos28

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

It's for accounting purposes as far as I can see - one4all or whoever would be set up as a vendor.

It's a load of pox because the bike shop loose a fortune

I can't see why employers think that voucher companies make the scheme easier. All they have to do is transfer the funds directly to the bike shop (following receipt of quotation), set the repayments up in your payroll system and that's it. It gives the buyer a lot more purchasing power. I'm sure most bike shops would rather give discount to their customers than pay 10% commission to a voucher company.