"Improvement" of Font & Morris Roundabouts

PopeBuckfastXVI

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/180711_01.html#draw

Is it me or does there seem to be less traffic in the junction simulation. I'd like to see both configurations handling the same traffic, and also see the effect on off-peak times.

Is that not the point of the signalised junctions over roundabouts - improved traffic flow and less queuing?

There seems to be an extra lane for each entrance to the junction which could cut the perceived queue by a third and the traffic would go in bursts with 50% greater volume. (two extra lanes if you are approaching Morris from the dual carriageway)

Those are just my thoughts - they are not backed by any experience or qualifications.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that not the point of the signalised junctions over roundabouts - improved traffic flow and less queuing?

I mean less traffic overall, less individual car objects in the simulation.

Certainly the system isn't generating the *same* traffic, you can see that at the start, both simulations should have identical starting conditions, and identical traffic generation patterns, to be a fair comparison.

swe_fi

Freaky, I was thinking the exact same thing about the Lynch clip just this morning.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/Model.html

But maybe you were, as me, stuck in traffic thinking..."...what about traffic lights....hmmmm"

The Lynch model, AS IF the road would completely clear of cars from the motorway direction at the lights in between each interval. From driving this road every day I can tell you now, that ain't gonna happen.

Vissim is supposed to be the leading traffic model, but i wonder if they have actually been here or if they have been provided the correct raw data? And more importantly is the simulation software allows for the data: "Input: projected X no of parents expected to buy Y no of schoolbooks for Z no of kids Insert: Interval dates to: from:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VISSIM

This is what my life has come to, thinking about roundabouts vs traffic lights. I want my flying car soon please.

antoobrien

I'd love to know what are they playing at in Ballybane. They're re-opening the right turn to go out the Monivea road from the Ballybane Rd, which means that traffic will have to cross the traffic flow either coming from the Tuam rd or the Dual carriageway. It appears that there's no lights here, so traffic will naturally back up from this point

The slips look like they're not long enough, and it appears that there's lights in the middle of them, which will kill traffic flow (isn't that part of the point of this thing?). The R339 would be an ideal spot to lower the level of the road and put in a covered pedestrian overpass (the combination should make it easier for all pedestrians to use) between Monivea Park & the Monivea Rd. Another one could be provided at between the business park and the R339, making to all a lot safer for pedestrians.

I really don't like those right turn pockets for cyclists - it's a bit risky to assume that motorists will actually stop at read lights, especially when you consider the amount of times that the road signs on roundabouts are regularly hit by cars.

skelliser

notice the lack of slip roads onto the tuam road from terryland or a slip road leaving boston or a slip road coming from the dual carriage way onto the
ballybane road


it seems to me that galway city council are incapable or have the mental capacity to handle more then one slip road!!
This is utter madness!!!

paulgalway

Notice the bus lane at the junction of the Monivea rd and Ballybane rd.

There is no right turn, so buses have to turn left and go to the roundabout - and normal traffic will be on the inside !

there will be 2 lanes of traffic turnning left at this junction onto a single lane.

ciotog

paulgalway wrote: »

Notice the bus lane at the junction of the Monivea rd and Ballybane rd.

There is no right turn, so buses have to turn left and go to the roundabout - and normal traffic will be on the inside !

there will be 2 lanes of traffic turnning left at this junction onto a single lane.

No, the buses will have transponders which activate a traffic signal at that lane. That allows them to carry on straight through rather than going left.

dloob

antoobrien wrote: »

I'd love to know what are they playing at in Ballybane. They're re-opening the right turn to go out the Monivea road from the Ballybane Rd, which means that traffic will have to cross the traffic flow either coming from the Tuam rd or the Dual carriageway. It appears that there's no lights here, so traffic will naturally back up from this point

I think they will have lights there. They need them to stop traffic for the bus gate. I think the solid black lines are stop lines.

The current ban on right turns doesn't stop some cars turning right there anyway. I usually come across one every day.

I notice you still can't turn right onto to ballybane road from monivea. I guess you could go straight and use the jug handle thingy.

dilallio

Quoted from Galway Advertiser Facebook Page

Galway Chamber and the Galway City Business Association have made a submission about the traffic to each councillor. Here it is:

From: Galway Chamber of Commerce and Galway City Business Association

In the first vote on replacing roundabouts on the N6 Bothar na dTreabh with lighted junctions, ten City Councillors voted to replace the roundabout at Briarhill with a traffic lighted junctions, a la Moneenageisha.

This is despite the overwhelming view of the business community that this will be detrimental to business in the city. The following are some of the reasons why the Galway City Business Association and Galway Chamber of Commerce believe Councillors should vote against the proposals to change further Roundabouts on Bothar na Dtreabh to Traffic Light Junctions when the matter comes before City Council on Monday September 12th.

Shoppers/Visitors are avoiding Galway City as they believe that delays at Moneenageisha and across the City will have a negative impact on their visit. Business in Galway is dependent on out of town shoppers who, in the absence of real public transport alternatives, need to use their cars

This is at a time when City centre businesses are really struggling and when we should be doing our very best to attract shoppers and visitors to the city. Retailers, the life blood of the city centre, already cope with punitive commercial rates and rents and cannot be expected to cope with a downturn in footfall arising from the Road Works that will arise from this new development.

The business community doesn’t believe that there is enough research or indeed enough compelling reasons to make this decision at this time of sever economic difficulty. Engineers Ireland and other independent experts have expressed reservations about the proposals to change the Roundabouts to Traffic Light junctions on Both na Dtreabh.

The business community welcomes the Urban Traffic Control System, we want it now…it is not dependent on roundabouts being changed into lighted junctions.

Any works prior to Christmas will create even more traffic chaos when approaching the city and will have a detrimental effect on the vital Christmas Shopping period and will negatively impact on the attractiveness of the Christmas Market as an attraction to visitors coming to Galway

Undertakings that there will be no disruption to events like the Volvo Ocean Race in 2012, Galway Races and the Festival programme 2012 in Galway do not match the experience of the business community during other major projects that have been carried out in the city, nor do phrases like ‘on time and under budget’.

It is the strong belief of Galway Chamber of Commerce and the Galway City Business Association that proceeding with the proposal to change the Roundabouts to Traffic Light junctions as planned will damage business in the city and will result in job losses.

We ask you, as an elected City Councillor, to consider this and to vote against the proposal as it currently stands.

what_traffic

Anybody seen a Press Release or statement from "Engineers Ireland" on this?

paulgalway

On Galwaybay to-day that they are starting re-surfacing of the Monivea rd on Monday. Also starting work on the roundabout at Briarhill !!!.

Did they not learn the lessons from a few weeks ago when they started work on the quincentinal bridge and re-surfacing on University rd.

One thing that came out from the meeting on Monday was that communication with the public would be improved; would be great if one of the council officials came onto the "Talk to..." forum.

Iwannahurl

"The business community welcomes the Urban Traffic Control System, we want it now…it is not dependent on roundabouts being changed into lighted junctions."



So how does Galway Chamber see an AUTC working with uncontrolled roundabouts?

Loudspeakers?

desaparecidos

The one benefit of lights is that it's a bit more fool proof for the morons compared to a roundabout.

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

"The business community welcomes the Urban Traffic Control System, we want it now…it is not dependent on roundabouts being changed into lighted junctions."

So how does Galway Chamber see an AUTC working with uncontrolled roundabouts? Loudspeakers?

Indeed.

Or perhaps they'll ring up GBFM (the radio station that everyone listens to ) and ask them to broadcast a message like "could 1/4 of ye who are travelling towards the XXX roundabout divert down Bogville Rd, XXX is getting a bit backed up".


As I read the press release, I didn't agree but at least I could understand their concerns. Until I got to that bit, though, I just decided they're simply change-resistant boggers who'll complain about things as they are and complain when people want to make them better. They seriously think that doing nothing is an option.

antoobrien

dloob wrote: »

I think they will have lights there. They need them to stop traffic for the bus gate. I think the solid black lines are stop lines.

There's nothing on the map to indicate that, there is however a traffic island.

dloob wrote: »

The current ban on right turns doesn't stop some cars turning right there anyway. I usually come across one every day.

Sure if people did everything they were supposed to (very hard when you have a lifetime license for motorist and allow cyclists on the roads with no training) we wouldn't need to consider ripping this up.

dloob wrote: »

I notice you still can't turn right onto to ballybane road from monivea. I guess you could go straight and use the jug handle thingy.

That would appear to be the case.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

There's nothing on the map to indicate that, there is however a traffic island.

dloob is actually correct here. Traffic lights (only for the Bus) is a feature here at the Bus Gate.

what_traffic

dilallio wrote: »

Quoted from Galway Advertiser Facebook Page

Galway Chamber and the Galway City Business Association have made a submission about the traffic to each councillor.

Was anybody from Boards.ie at the City Hall meeting last Monday? Was a formal submission on the Part 8 report submitted by the Galway Chamber or the Galway City Business Association to the City Executive? Or is above reference to just contacts with Individual Cllr's? Have heard that only 3 submissions where made on the scheme as per http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/180711_01.html
"Bothar na dTreabh (N6) Multi Modal Corridor Improvement Scheme Phase 3 Part VIII Planning Application Font and Morris Roundabouts"

snubbleste

The Chamber made no formal submission to the Council despite all their posturing. They only contacted councillors and the media.

Iwannahurl

What's the significance of Part 8?

Why are submissions so important as opposed to making representations to Councillors?

ciotog

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What's the significance of Part 8?

Why are submissions so important as opposed to making representations to Councillors?

As far as I'm aware; it's the formal part of the planning process where the local authority publicly notifies its intent and plans to develop. This then allows people to provide formal feedback on the proposed development. I would then assume the difference is that the contact with councillors is considered informal and doesn't go on record as a submission under Part 8 would.

Iwannahurl

Thanks.

I guess you mean contact with councillors is considered informal?

ciotog

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Thanks.

I guess you mean contact with councillors is considered informal?

You're right - fixed it.

Iwannahurl

Thanks again.

I now have to get up to speed on Part 8.

Just did a quick preliminary search. This An Taisce document doesn't seem to suggest a material difference between submissions and representations:

This procedure, usually called Part 8, allows a planning authority to grant consent for a development within its own land ownership or jurisdiction where the project is not subject to the EIA Directive. Any proposal is subject to advertisement for public comment under Part 8, P&D Regulations, 2001; but in reality, the planning authority is adjudicating on its own scheme, which is subject to approval by elected members.

Accordingly, in addition to making a direct written submission within the advertised time period to a planning authority, Third Parties are also entitled to make direct representation to elected Councillors.

Sponge Bob

It means that you may make a formal submission AS WELL as talk to a councillor(s) and that neither negates t'other.

Simples!

Iwannahurl

Ah yes, but what of the weighting of each?

The impression given to me was that submissions carry more weight.

Sponge Bob

Yes. Always get you own schpake in and in writing. That did not stop ( eg) Galway City Council changing the design of the SQR cycle lanes AFTER they went through An Bord Pleanála with a very different plan so be fully prepared to go to An Bord P and then to the High Court afterwards once you find yourself ignored twice.

swe_fi

There were 4 data collection people in high vis vests down by the Morris roundabout this morning and yesterday also taking notes on medical clipboards (by the looks of it). Hope they come up with something good.

what_traffic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yes. Always get you own schpake in and in writing. That did not stop ( eg) Galway City Council changing the design of the SQR cycle lanes AFTER they went through An Bord Pleanála with a very different plan so be fully prepared to go to An Bord P and then to the High Court afterwards once you find yourself ignored twice.

I know they have ommitted the Concrete Pedestrian Overbridge which was submitted in the Original plan to an Bord Pleanala. What was the change to the cycle lanes? An Bord Pleanala specified that cycle path/lanes should be "on road" going through the junctions, similar to what now is being put in place on the N6/N59 junction. Only took 26/27 years for that junction to be rectified.

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yes. Always get you own schpake in and in writing. That did not stop ( eg) Galway City Council changing the design of the SQR cycle lanes AFTER they went through An Bord Pleanála with a very different plan so be fully prepared to go to An Bord P and then to the High Court afterwards once you find yourself ignored twice.

In the original plan Joe Tansey said cyclists would dismount and become pedestrians at every junction. Bord Pleanala said no to that although city council are still tryting to impose this assumption at Fort Lorenzo and Corrib Park.

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yes. Always get you own schpake in and in writing. That did not stop ( eg) Galway City Council changing the design of the SQR cycle lanes AFTER they went through An Bord Pleanála with a very different plan so be fully prepared to go to An Bord P and then to the High Court afterwards once you find yourself ignored twice.

I should also point out that Mr. Tansey also wanted two more roundabouts on the SQR. An Bord Pleanala also threw this out and directed that traffic lights be used instead specifically because of the negative effects roundabouts would have had for cyclists and pedestrians.

This was nine years ago and at that point ABP was effectively acknowledging that these roundabouts were not a suitable junction design for a university city like Galway.

People who are now saying that the roundabouts are ok and dont need changing are living in a personal fantasy world of their own creation.