land improvement laws

flatout11

well a bit more detail on the new legislation in the journal today,
it seems the red tape is back in production!!!!!

LostCovey

flatout11 wrote: »

well a bit more detail on the new legislation in the journal today,
it seems the red tape is back in production!!!!!

It was long enough the other way with people getting grants to waste their money wrecking wetlands that had no potential for agriculture. Not to mention "arterial drainage". Not a fan of paperwork, but a free for all did not work either.

LC

flatout11

LostCovey wrote: »

Not a fan of paperwork, but a free for all did not work either.

LC

dont disagree with your last sentiment, but it does have some serious consequences for indivudal farmers, although it would appear to be less severe than i previously thought,
for example: we bought a piece of land 2 years ago, it belonged to a old farmer who was selling it off,
fields were 1 to 2 acres poorly layed out etc...
we cleared the fields into suitable sizes and realined boundarys, made roadways through it etc..
now we did remove a considerale ammount of boundarys i guess when you start adding them up it could reach 500m, i aint a big fan of cutting down every tree in the place but in this case it was necessary and we did replant an considerable ammount afterwards,
so to cut a long story shorth we under the new proposals could have to seek planning permission to do so and if we had awkard neighbours (thankfully they arent that bad ) they would be within there rights to object for some possible aesthetic value that they deemed important
therefore preventing or delaying us from 'improving' the farm

Tora Bora

LostCovey wrote: »

It was long enough the other way with people getting grants to waste their money wrecking wetlands that had no potential for agriculture. Not to mention "arterial drainage". Not a fan of paperwork, but a free for all did not work either.

LC

Don't have wetlands, and havent seen the comic article yet. BUT, my instinct tells me, to call my local friendly bull dozer man. Get the whole place banged into minimum four to five acre segments. No point waiting around for dickheads with clipboards to pick our pickets, when they themselves have nice pensionable jobs.

LostCovey

Tora Bora wrote: »

LostCovey wrote: »

It was long enough the other way with people getting grants to waste their money wrecking wetlands that had no potential for agriculture. Not to mention "arterial drainage". Not a fan of paperwork, but a free for all did not work either.

LC

Don't have wetlands, and havent seen the comic article yet. BUT, my instinct tells me, to call my local friendly bull dozer man. Get the whole place banged into minimum four to five acre segments. No point waiting around for dickheads with clipboards to pick our pickets, when they themselves have nice pensionable jobs.

It's inevitable that some people will react like that. Others will see some value in what the EU are making us do. And a few will feel ashamed that in 2011 we need clipheads with dickboards from Dublin OR Brussels to force some of us to mind whats left of our wetlands.

LostCovey

bob charles

thankfully have the bulldozer in at the moment, might make a half arsed start on next years job so I dont need to apply for planning and assessment. this could be a right gravy train to be aboard

MOSSAD

Most people forget that the field system is man made and at times for practicality it's necessary to revise the layout. Of course relpant a hedge row and where possible save trees, and even plant a variety of new and potentially useful trees.
There has to be a bit of give and take-not all of us are benchmarked and pensioned.

LostCovey

MOSSAD wrote: »

Most people forget that the field system is man made and at times for practicality it's necessary to revise the layout. Of course relpant a hedge row and where possible save trees, and even plant a variety of new and potentially useful trees.
There has to be a bit of give and take-not all of us are benchmarked and pensioned.

On this one, you're in Mossad, and some of us are on the West Bank

Pappa J

LC i get the impression you are big into organic farming, fair play, horses for courses. But the whole issue of wet lands.......... i've seen good land turn wetter and wetter each year due to the lack of maintaanance of major rivers on the part of the Office of public works and the refusal by county councils to give permission to individuals to take the work and cost on by themselves.
On another point Peat Fens. about 25-30 years ago we got co funding from the Dept of Agriculture to reclaim a large area of peat land and all works were inspected, approved and signed off on by them. This land is highly productive... growing maize, grass silage and grazing animals.
So you cant assume all wetlands are non productive given a chance.

flatout11

what exactly constitutes wetlands??

Pappa J

I saw the first doccument published and wetlands are

"For the purposes of the legislation the following are regarded as wetlands:-

Lakes, resevoirs and ponds
Turloughs
RIvers and canals
Swamps and marshes
Floodplains that are perminanently or periodocally inundated with water (including callows)
Peatlands (bogs, wetheath and fens)
Wet Woodlands
Caves
Cliffs
Salt Marshes
Dune slacks and machairs
Transitional Marshes (e.g. estuaries and lagoons)
Intertidal Habitats (to 6m below the lowest spring tide level)"

Its a bloody mine field. It would be well worth your while getting a copy of it from your local teagasc advisor.
I'm trying to get a campaign going to resist this crap within discussion groups but guys don't know anything about it and just shrug their shoulders and say more red tape.

flatout11

ok im clear on the wetlands
but land drainage (excl wetlands) this makes no sense from a conservation or any other piont of view or am i missing something????
how are they going to calculate the rest

5live

I may be wrong in my interpretation LC but to replace a broken covered field drain (present for over 100 years) as i was planning to do next year will now require dept of ag approval as it drains over a quarter of an acre of area (or would if it was still working:rolleyes:). Now this plot of ground has grown silage barley and maize over the last 20 years and provides essential grazing in dry summers but it and about 20% of my farm is being effectively sterilised for production as essential and continuous maintainance is effectively being prohibited on this land (as far as the sketchy details provided so far can be interpreted) rendering productive ground worth 10k an acre to essentially forestry land worth 3k an acre in the stroke of a pen, without any discussion or consultation (yes its you i am talking about John Gormless:mad::mad::mad:) or any compensation paid.

On this i am not mossad or in the west bank but a very p***ed off arab in the heart of jerusalem being denied access to my olive groves next door without taking a 50 mile detour through numerous roadblocks that i can be refused access on at any time by any, as your so succinctly phrased it, cliphead with a dickboard.

flatout11

5live wrote: »

I may be wrong in my interpretation LC but to replace a broken covered field drain (present for over 100 years) as i was planning to do next year will now require dept of ag approval as it drains over a quarter of an acre of area (or would if it was still working:rolleyes:). Now this plot of ground has grown silage barley and maize over the last 20 years and provides essential grazing in dry summers but it and about 20% of my farm is being effectively sterilised for production as essential and continuous maintainance is effectively being prohibited on this land (as far as the sketchy details provided so far can be interpreted) rendering productive ground worth 10k an acre to essentially forestry land worth 3k an acre in the stroke of a pen, without any discussion or consultation (yes its you i am talking about John Gormless:mad::mad::mad:)

this is exactly the problem, the scope of this legislation is far greater than wetlands and conservation,
essentially you can consider it like this, any work that needs more than a mini-digger needs planning permission

blue5000

I think all this has come about because of one dickhead farmer in wexford who had 100's of cattle wintered on sand dunes. The sand dunes were protected habitat. I don't know how the situation got out of hand, but media got hold of it and OPW or whatever they call themselves these days were not able to take control of the situation. Now EU has come out with the big stick and we all suffer as a consequence.

On the other hand we have board na mona removing peat right down to the gravel in large tracts of land in the midlands and small ppl being banned from cutting turf with a slean.

As farmers we need to take more responsibility for the wildlife that live on our farms. If we don't look after it now, it will be gone in a generation. We are lucky to have so much in this country compared to parts of the uk or denmark for example. Don't get me wrong, I know farmers hate to see a field flooded, or an old lads farm beside us growing scrub, but we need to do a little bit more to protect our wildlife heritage for our kids. It won't break us financially. Apologies for the rant!

Otherwise when it's gone it's gone forever

5live

blue5000 wrote: »

I think all this has come about because of one dickhead farmer in wexford who had 100's of cattle wintered on sand dunes. The sand dunes were protected habitat. I don't know how the situation got out of hand, but media got hold of it and OPW or whatever they call themselves these days were not able to take control of the situation. Now EU has come out with the big stick and we all suffer as a consequence.

On the other hand we have board na mona removing peat right down to the gravel in large tracts of land in the midlands and small ppl being banned from cutting turf with a slean.

As farmers we need to take more responsibility for the wildlife that live on our farms. If we don't look after it now, it will be gone in a generation. We are lucky to have so much in this country compared to parts of the uk or denmark for example. Don't get me wrong, I know farmers hate to see a field flooded, or an old lads farm beside us growing scrub, but we need to do a little bit more to protect our wildlife heritage for our kids. It won't break us financially. Apologies for the rant!

Otherwise when it's gone it's gone forever

I agree with you up to a point blue5000. Habitat is hugely important and as the only farm around with anything approaching a ditch left in place i am now left with the realisation that financially i would have been better off levelling off the entire farm, like so many around me, rather than having the benefits of wildlife corridors and shelter. And now a big block of my farm is effectively sterilised by stopping any remedial works necessary.

The point i stop at is when someone dictates what i can do on my land as regards habitat and how important it is while having immaculate lawns and wildlife sterile tracts of housing without an ounce of habitat or native planting.

Do as i say, not as i do

Looks like i will be ranting all day now as the correct buttons have been pressed:(

blue5000

Ya 5live I know how you feel. Sorry for pressing the buttons, I agree it is different when it is being shoved down your neck by a bunch of prix. They need to lighten up a bit, there has been a lot of heavy handed legislation without consultation, I'm just trying to get ppl to look at the big picture.

flatout11

blue5000 wrote: »

Ya 5live I know how you feel. Sorry for pressing the buttons, I agree it is different when it is being shoved down your neck by a bunch of prix. They need to lighten up a bit, there has been a lot of heavy handed legislation without consultation, I'm just trying to get ppl to look at the big picture.

a lot is gonna depend on how the dept staff screen what is necessary for
full planning permission
id still love to know what they determine as the limit
is it per year per holding
per farmer ????????????????

vcsggl

you might have thought that given the economic state of the country that the government would be seeking ways to reduce the number of civil servants on its payroll. Instead there seem to be ever more opportunities to recruit quite well paid people with degrees but with no understanding at all as to how large parts of Ireland actually function at grass roots level. We have the "septic tank inspectorate" and now the farmland planning officer brigade. None of these people contribute anything at all to the prosperity of the country but cost us all a lot of money and simply make life more difficult for those trying to make a basic living from the land.

I have had a long exchange with a couple of characters in Dublin about the septic tank charges and the one consistent thing in the responses is that "We have to comply with EU legislation" - asked why we have to do that the answer is "because we do" ! The same logic - or lack of it - seems to be behind the new planning regulations. Some half baked graduate in an office in Brussels does some desk / internet research on wetlands, farming etc and puts forward new legislative proposals and before we know it we've got bright young things with rule books and clipboards knocking on the farmhouse door asking to see your hedgerow and drain records.

Surely there must be those in government that have the common sense to say - "hang on a minute, Ireland's rural communities have had a really hard time and are struggling to survive. The last thing we want are more rules and regulations that cost the people money and are of no benefit to the country as a whole. Take your new legislation away and come back in 10 years time when the country's back on track and we might consider your proposals"

I've said it before and was criticised but in many respects the old rural Ireland was a far better place to live than it is today!

George

LostCovey

vcsggl wrote: »

you might have thought that given the economic state of the country that the government would be seeking ways to reduce the number of civil servants on its payroll. Instead there seem to be ever more opportunities to recruit quite well paid people with degrees but with no understanding at all as to how large parts of Ireland actually function at grass roots level. We have the "septic tank inspectorate" and now the farmland planning officer brigade. None of these people contribute anything at all to the prosperity of the country but cost us all a lot of money and simply make life more difficult for those trying to make a basic living from the land.

I have had a long exchange with a couple of characters in Dublin about the septic tank charges and the one consistent thing in the responses is that "We have to comply with EU legislation" - asked why we have to do that the answer is "because we do" ! The same logic - or lack of it - seems to be behind the new planning regulations. Some half baked graduate in an office in Brussels does some desk / internet research on wetlands, farming etc and puts forward new legislative proposals and before we know it we've got bright young things with rule books and clipboards knocking on the farmhouse door asking to see your hedgerow and drain records.

Surely there must be those in government that have the common sense to say - "hang on a minute, Ireland's rural communities have had a really hard time and are struggling to survive. The last thing we want are more rules and regulations that cost the people money and are of no benefit to the country as a whole. Take your new legislation away and come back in 10 years time when the country's back on track and we might consider your proposals"

I've said it before and was criticised but in many respects the old rural Ireland was a far better place to live than it is today!

George

The flip side to that argument is the number of species we have needlessly lost, and the amount of habitat that has been thoughtlessly destroyed.

The septic tank issue is a legacy of incredibly bad planning, and was well flagged at the time that Bertie was cheerleading the bungalow blitz of rural Ireland.

I agree its sad that we apparently need others to tell us to cease urinating in our groundwater.

LostCovey

LostCovey

blue5000 wrote: »

I think all this has come about because of one dickhead farmer in wexford who had 100's of cattle wintered on sand dunes. The sand dunes were protected habitat. I don't know how the situation got out of hand, but media got hold of it and OPW or whatever they call themselves these days were not able to take control of the situation. Now EU has come out with the big stick and we all suffer as a consequence.

On the other hand we have board na mona removing peat right down to the gravel in large tracts of land in the midlands and small ppl being banned from cutting turf with a slean.

As farmers we need to take more responsibility for the wildlife that live on our farms. If we don't look after it now, it will be gone in a generation. We are lucky to have so much in this country compared to parts of the uk or denmark for example. Don't get me wrong, I know farmers hate to see a field flooded, or an old lads farm beside us growing scrub, but we need to do a little bit more to protect our wildlife heritage for our kids. It won't break us financially. Apologies for the rant!

Otherwise when it's gone it's gone forever

Fair play I agree with everythingyou have written, and esp re Bord na Monas plundering of the entire midlands. An ecological equivalent of Anglo Irish Bank, and the only justice is that in the long run the memory of their vandalism, and a few housing estates will be their only long term legacy

I was in Sligo for a weekend over the summer, and some plonker has rotavated a track to make an all-weather gallop for horses right through a sand dune system in an SAC. And was using it the day we were there. On a fragil;ed sand-dune peninsula he did not own - I checked.

I am not making this up, you could not.

We sadly don't seem to be able to set and enforce our own standards. maybe the country is too small - someone always knows someone who will "go aisy".

Maybe this legislation is a bit OTT or a gravy train for the superannuated.

But if it wasn't for the EU, there would be nothing left.

We need someone to mind us it seems.

LC

5live

LostCovey wrote: »

I agree its sad that we apparently need others to tell us to cease urinating in our groundwater.

LostCovey

And i take it you are ok with those 'others' having their sewage pumped out into dublin bay or as is the case in a local village, raw barely filtered sewage into a local stream? I had an amazing notion that all in this fair land were equal and laws affecting one should affect all? Should we also enact a SI to preserve biodiversity in urban areas? No? Because our urban brethern may be inconvenienced by having to mow along a blackthorn hedge? Equality would be a b***h wouldnt it;)

Back to the topic. Just how is this going to work anyway? Are they going to use OS maps (now at least 50 years out of date)? Is there going to be an inspectorate? A restriction on townlands or DEDs? SFP maps? This is really going to be fun:pac:

Birdnuts

5live wrote: »

And i take it you are ok with those 'others' having their sewage pumped out into dublin bay or as is the case in a local village, raw barely filtered sewage into a local stream? I had an amazing notion that all in this fair land were equal and laws affecting one should affect all? Should we also enact a SI to preserve biodiversity in urban areas? No? Because our urban brethern may be inconvenienced by having to mow along a blackthorn hedge? Equality would be a b***h wouldnt it;)

AFAIK the following SAC/NHA's are located in and around Dublin City - Bull Island, Knock Lake, Booterstown Marsh, Liffey Valley Park etc.

Our ongoing failure to address water quality issues in this country was again highlighted by this rather alarming story in recent weeks:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0825/1224302935385.html

LostCovey

5live wrote: »

And i take it you are ok with those 'others' having their sewage pumped out into dublin bay or as is the case in a local village, raw barely filtered sewage into a local stream? I had an amazing notion that all in this fair land were equal and laws affecting one should affect all? Should we also enact a SI to preserve biodiversity in urban areas? No? Because our urban brethern may be inconvenienced by having to mow along a blackthorn hedge? Equality would be a b***h wouldnt it;)

Back to the topic. Just how is this going to work anyway? Are they going to use OS maps (now at least 50 years out of date)? Is there going to be an inspectorate? A restriction on townlands or DEDs? SFP maps? This is really going to be fun:pac:

How many wrongs make a right.

Just because Dublin Bay is toxic & largely destroyed by pollution isn't a great argument to put the rest of the country in the same state.

Thats like saying you should light your car if someone torches your house.

LC

Pappa J

I emailed Simon Coveney 2 days ago with our discussion groups concerns. His advisor emailed me back to say she will pass on the points to Simon and the other relevant officals dealing with the issue. She also added, a "consultation process will begin next week and will allow all farmers to engage with the Department and consult on the various practical considerations involved" . Im my opinion this would sound like there is time left yet.
Every one should send emails to simon.coveney@oir.ie to express their concerns.

Hope we can get something done !!

Pappa J

LostCovey wrote: »

How many wrongs make a right.

Just because Dublin Bay is toxic & largely destroyed by pollution isn't a great argument to put the rest of the country in the same state.

Thats like saying you should light your car if someone torches your house.

LC

Can't agree yith you there LC

Would you not agree the biggest polluters (Cities, Towns & Villages without propper treatment plants) should be tackled first and corrected IN FULL before moving on to "the other socalled polluters.........Farmers and rural dwellers"

How many rural septic tanks would equal the pollution form a major city.
Anyway i'm drifting from the topic. The land drainage proposals are only a show to keep the EU off the governments backs and above all avoid €33,000 a day fines which were ignored by previous governments.

Pappa J

flatout11

IOthink the scope of the laws goes to far ...
with these new laws its the idea of having to seek planing permission to undertake drainage works on agricultural land...... can anyone explain the sense in this because its beyond me

5live

Pappa J wrote: »

Can't agree yith you there LC

Would you not agree the biggest polluters (Cities, Towns & Villages without propper treatment plants) should be tackled first and corrected IN FULL before moving on to "the other socalled polluters.........Farmers and rural dwellers"


Pappa J

+ infinity there. 50 acres per septic tank will definately produce more environmental degradation than 200,000 houses effluent on 50 acres:rolleyes:

Good work pappa j. I already emailed my gov TD but it wouldnt do any harm to email the top lad himself.

(but maybe 'simon' is more concerned with septic tanks than officially recognised;))

No6

flatout11 wrote: »

IOthink the scope of the laws goes to far ...
with these new laws its the idea of having to seek planing permission to undertake drainage works on agricultural land...... can anyone explain the sense in this because its beyond me

Its to keep the planners who are currently doing very little gainfully employed harassing the farmers who it now seems are one of the few growth industries in Ireland at the moment!! They are currently making anyone who applies for planning for a house or extension life miserable and they want to spread the love!!

The problem with land drainage is it sppeds up the flow of water into watercourses and therefore causes flooding. In the last number of years all commercial developments required SUDs calculations and systems (basicly holding tanks) to maintain the surfance water output of the developement at a calculated green field level. It sounds to me that they want to start bringing in mitigation measures to agricultural drainage to ultimately possibly reduce flood risk and of course charge a nice fee for doing so!!!

Grecco

No6 wrote: »

The problem with land drainage is it sppeds up the flow of water into watercourses and therefore causes flooding.

God forbid there might be a bit of flooding on the flood plains, If only they hadn't gave reckless planning decisions to there builder buddies to build thousands of houses on them.
typical ret@rds in cushy state jobs

5live

Wouldnt it open a nice can of worms if they designated all flood plains protected and anyone doing anything including drainage or reseeding needing planning permission and it was extended to houses too:D

But on the plus side, the eejit who left this issue on the bottom of the pile while he was doing more important stuff like stopping incineration in his constituency and banning deer hunting (you know, the stuff that really really affects our lives:rolleyes:) has found a job in a university. Well thank god for that. Now must stop the kids from thinking of going there as their standards are extremely low:pac:

flatout11

5live wrote: »

Wouldnt it open a nice can of worms if they designated all flood plains protected and anyone doing anything including drainage or reseeding needing planning permission and it was extended to houses too:D

But on the plus side, the eejit who left this issue on the bottom of the pile while he was doing more important stuff like stopping incineration in his constituency and banning deer hunting (you know, the stuff that really really affects our lives:rolleyes:) has found a job in a university. Well thank god for that. Now must stop the kids from thinking of going there as their standards are extremely low:pac:

great another soap box for him to preach from!!!!!

Pappa J

5live, the funny thing is most of these flood plains are already SAC's !!!

LostCovey

There's a fantastic (in my opinion) letter in today's Irish Times by a Cork farmer.

I assume copyright prevents me copying and pasting it, so you can read it here.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2011/0912/1224303945125.html

I agree totally with his viewpoint, so a lot of the people on this thread might want to save themselves a click!

Slagging off John Gormley is all fine & dandy (I am fond of it myself). However he is a politician, and they always have an exit route. He has cleared off to a handy number in the States, most of us will be staying put, and we need to think a bit harder about how we got our landscape, and what we have done with it, and what we are going to do with it.

Revving up the Komatsu and grubbing up ditches & old hedges is cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

LostCovey

Tipp Man

Hold on there now for just 1 second

That letter from the "farmer" says that the destruction of the hedges and wetlands continues unchecked. Whatever about wetlands (which i don't know about), this is complete garbage with regards to hedges.

For starters you cannot remove a hedge nowadays without planting an equivilant length of hedge BEFORE the removal. These are the rules in South Tipp coco and i assume they are the same around the country. Secondly the dogs on the street know that since the introduction of the REPS that Irish farmers have planted enough hedges to go from Dublin to Moscow and back again. That's a hell of a lot of hedges so to say that the destruction continues unchecked is in fact a lie.

From my own personal point of view the amount of birds that are around the yard this year is unbelievable and such a variety as well, you name it and its flying around the place (sh###ting everywhere as well i might add but thats another story). The swallows have been having a running battle with the cuckoo all summer, the sight of 20 or 30 swallows chasing a cuckoo is fantastic.

As a group famers get bad enough press as is, lets not give ourselves even more bad press with inaccuarte letters from so called "farmers"

Tipp Man

In fact the removal and planting of repalcement hedge is covered in this department document

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/crosscompliance/landscapefeatures/Hedges%20and%20drains%2012%2008%2009.pdf

vanderbadger

ya the comparison to Brazilian rainforrests even though he highlights it is a bit over the top surely ?

Tipp Man

vanderbadger wrote: »

ya the comparison to Brazilian rainforrests even though he highlights it is a bit over the top surely ?

To put that in context from 2000 to 2005 the ANNUAL area of rainforest that was destroyed was about 22,000 sq KM. That's an area equal to 75% of the area of Belgium. So in that 6 years an area equal to 4 Belgiums was lost

5live

LostCovey wrote: »

There's a fantastic (in my opinion) letter in today's Irish Times by a Cork farmer.

I assume copyright prevents me copying and pasting it, so you can read it here.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2011/0912/1224303945125.html

I agree totally with his viewpoint, so a lot of the people on this thread might want to save themselves a click!

Slagging off John Gormley is all fine & dandy (I am fond of it myself). However he is a politician, and they always have an exit route. He has cleared off to a handy number in the States, most of us will be staying put, and we need to think a bit harder about how we got our landscape, and what we have done with it, and what we are going to do with it.

Revving up the Komatsu and grubbing up ditches & old hedges is cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

LostCovey

A couple of points on that LC.

Personally i prefer a JCB for hedge removal, more manouvreability dontcha know:rolleyes:

And is he actually a farmer? As i told an exTD a while back, 2 bullocks in the back haggart doesnt quality you as a farmer, just a hobbyist.

And as vanderbadger says, useing brazilian rainforests as a comparison is a tad:rolleyes: OTT

Also, i remember reading (in new scientist, i think but cant locate the article yet) a lot of the decline in wild bird population can be ascribed to earlier hatching of the insect population that they depend upon for food so they are left with the late and lower populations, due to global warming (and not climate change, as climate has always changed and always will).

And the article makes no mention of habitat change at any point between their summer and winter habitats. They dont just hop onto a ryanair flight and fly direct to some airport in the back of beyonds and get a bus to their winter habitat (Do they?:(). So ALL the decline cannot be due to habitat removal in ireland ,just some, despite what the meeja would like the general population to think.

I also note you made no mention of, as tippman has pointed out, the huge increase in hedge rows in the last decade. Is that because you are being argumentative just for the sake of it or that you ignore any points that may weaken your arguments:pac:

Anyways, this legislation is covering more than hedgerows, LC(which are already more than adequitely covered by existing legislation IMO), as tippman has pointed out

And what leadership is he waiting for, for pitys sake. His land, he can let the whole thing get covered with furze and brambles if he wants. If he wants leadership, show it and quit complaining that someone else wont do what he wants them to do. Manup for pitys sake

MOSSAD

With respect to the loss of birds, the past two winters have done them no favours. With prolonged freezing around here down to -18c, packed snow, frozen ground and watercourses, I can say that not alone has the bird population been affected by the weather, but also rats, mice, foxes and badgers. These things happen, and it's idiotic to put the blame on farming practices, eg look at the effects of REPS.
As regards the landscape, for the most part humans have made it over thousands of years-try Mitchell's Shell guide to reading the Irish Landscape.

Birdnuts

MOSSAD wrote: »

With respect to the loss of birds, the past two winters have done them no favours. With prolonged freezing around here down to -18c, packed snow, frozen ground and watercourses, I can say that not alone has the bird population been affected by the weather, but also rats, mice, foxes and badgers. These things happen, and it's idiotic to put the blame on farming practices, eg look at the effects of REPS.
As regards the landscape, for the most part humans have made it over thousands of years-try Mitchell's Shell guide to reading the Irish Landscape.

I wouldn't put all the blame on farming practices eitheir - problems in wintering areas in Africa are also a factor in recent decades. Having said that the intensfication of agriculture since the 40's combined with the loss of small mixed farms have certainly been the main cause of the major declines in species such as Corncrakes, Curlew etc.

PS: On a more positive note I have noticed a modest recovery in Cuckoo numbers in the last few summers - I guess the likes of REPS and the general efforts of enlightened farmers should take some credit in this case:)

johngalway

MOSSAD wrote: »

foxes

Foxes in this area weren't a bit bothered by the two harsh Winters.