Lidl

cfuserkildare

Okay, time for a moan.

Lidl have built a new place in Celbridge and the entrance path is right beside and possibly encroaching into a famine/pauper graveyard.

Can we find out if any archeological investigation was carried out before the diggers went in?? Because nobody heard about it until the bull-dozers arrived.

Any help/ advice appreciated.

Cheers.

Dr Strange

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Okay, time for a moan.

Lidl have built a new place in Celbridge and the entrance path is right beside and possibly encroaching into a famine/pauper graveyard.

Can we find out if any archeological investigation was carried out before the diggers went in?? Because nobody heard about it until the bull-dozers arrived.

Any help/ advice appreciated.

Cheers.

Slightly OT but what is the history of that cemetery? Are there any records? Is it a "visible" graveyard with headstones etc or a field/empty space?

As for the building work, if the builders did come across any bones without reporting them to gardai they are in direct contravention of the Coroner's Act. Leaving aside the possibility of an archaeological find if the Coroner is not notified about any human remains uncovered they'll be in trouble.

cfuserkildare

Hi,

The graveyard in question is well known as there are ceremonies held there once or twice a year, a plaque and some sort of lamp post with bronze birds flying around it stands in the center of the pathway into it
.

DeepSleeper

There was an Archaeological Impact Assessment done in advance - it is available on the Kildare Co Co planning website in two formats...

http://idocsweb.kildarecoco.ie/iDocsWeb/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=1406934&format=djvu

http://idocsweb.kildarecoco.ie/iDocsWeb/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=1406934&format=jpeg

slowburner

DeepSleeper wrote: »

There was an Archaeological Impact Assessment done in advance - it is available on the Kildare Co Co planning website in two formats...

http://idocsweb.kildarecoco.ie/iDocsWeb/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=1406934&format=djvu

http://idocsweb.kildarecoco.ie/iDocsWeb/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=1406934&format=jpeg

DS. Couldn't open the links

DeepSleeper

Go to the Kildare Co Co website

find the Planning page, then the planning enquiry link

type Lidl into the Applicant Name Section and Celbridge into the Development Address section

Three results appear - click on 10430

Click on the DOCUMENTS tab at the top left of the screen

On the list of documents, find FURTHER INFORMATION DETAILS 21/9/2010 - TECHNICAL REPORT 982KB and click the JPEG link

slowburner

DeepSleeper wrote: »

Go to the Kildare Co Co website

find the Planning page, then the planning enquiry link

type Lidl into the Applicant Name Section and Celbridge into the Development Address section

Three results appear - click on 10430

Click on the DOCUMENTS tab at the top left of the screen

On the list of documents, find FURTHER INFORMATION DETAILS 21/9/2010 - TECHNICAL REPORT 982KB and click the JPEG link

Thanks for that - finding the paper is a bit of an excavation in its own right.

cfuserkildare

Hi All,

Just a little bit more,

Apparently this only went through because the land belongs to the HSE otherwise the deal would never have happened!

Any further info would help hugely.

Cheers.

cfuserkildare

Hi,

Apparently this site holds the remains of between 1500 and 2500 people,
and yet it is only a small site?

Surely there would have been some overspill as the site is less than half a footy pitch in area??

Also were the surounding walls the original boundary or are the walls a more recent feature?

Cheers.

cfuserkildare

Okay,

Heard on the grapevine that remains have been found in the area that Lidl are using as entrance road, Unconfirmed as yet but you can see taped off areas when you go past on the bus.
Need confirmation of this then see what can be done about it,

Comments/advice welcome.

Cheers.

ted1

we live on a small island with alot of history. i doubt you can 'tdig anywhere without finding something of hostorical importance

Gee Bag

Okay,

Heard on the grapevine that remains have been found in the area that Lidl are using as entrance road, Unconfirmed as yet but you can see taped off areas when you go past on the bus.
Need confirmation of this then see what can be done about it,

Comments/advice welcome.

Cheers.

Somebody else has already given you the link to the archaeological testing report on Kildare County Councils website. Nothing archaeological was found on the site. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. You should take the time to read this report.

The development has planning permission. In effect that means that even if there was archaeological stuff there the developer would be allowed to have it excavated so they could carry on building. This might seem crazy/unfair/outrageous etc. but digging stuff up on building sites is how most archaeologists make their money.

cfuserkildare

Okay,

It seems that Gee-Bag has a problem with my posts,
Any particular reason why?

Also according to Kildare Co.Co. the site is being monitored very closely, so that could mean that they are expecting to find something.

So why the attitude?

Gee Bag

I don't really have a problem with your posts. Its just that you are making statements that are very unrealistic such as "no one head about it until the bulldozers arrrived". The planning proccess in Ireland is very transparent. The entire planning file is available on the councils website. The developer has to place an ad in a local paper stating that they are applying for planning and a small sign has to be erected at the site in public view to show that an application for planning has been submitted.

I just wanted to explain the way archaeology in Ireland works. If you follow the link that was given above and read the archaeological report on Kildare County Council's website it makes it quite clear that the site was subject to test excavation by a very reputable commercial archaeological firm and nothing of significance was found. For me this trumps anything 'heard on the grapevine'.

Archaeological work in the republic is undertaken by professional archaeologists and requires a licence to be issued by the National Monuments Service and the National Museum of Ireland. If there was a chance that human remains were going to be on the site then an osteoarchaeologist (bone specialist) would also have to be present.

If the site is being monitored that means an archaeologist is present on site to keep an eye on topsoil stripping, excavation of trenches etc. This is standard practice when a development is near a known or potential archaeological site

I appreciate that you are interested in the subject so if I seemed testy in this thread I apologise, I didn't mean to have a go at you. However, I do think the comment you made re. delisting post 1700 RMP sites on another thread was just daft.

Anyhow, hope this explains things better.

cfuserkildare

Gee-Bag,

I know what you are saying and yes procedure should be followed, but what should happen is not what always does happen.

Having been in contact with Kildare County Council it has been revealed to me that there are problems with the whole project, yes it is being monitored closely, but the we will just have to wait and see.

Gee Bag

cfuserkildare wrote: »

what should happen is not what always does happen.

True that