Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Direct Labour V Builder

Options
  • 08-09-2011 4:21pm
    #1
    nok2008
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭


    Hi All,

    Have recently got planning and have all drawings ready to go to builders for pricing but I am getting mixed messages about the savings that can be made when going direct labour. Architect is pushing builder but thats probably more to do with any easier job for him.

    Are there significant savings between the 2 options.

    I know that builders might be stress free but i would prefer to do some hard work to make sure the mortgage is stress free!! The house is circa 2,500 square foot and is being built in East Cork?

    Thanks for any assistance


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    ssbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    nok2008 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    Have recently got planning and have all drawings ready to go to builders for pricing but I am getting mixed messages about the savings that can be made when going direct labour. Architect is pushing builder but thats probably more to do with any easier job for him.

    Are there significant savings between the 2 options.

    I know that builders might be stress free but i would prefer to do some hard work to make sure the mortgage is stress free!! The house is circa 2,500 square foot and is being built in East Cork?

    Thanks for any assistance

    Hi Nok2008,

    My brother is currently building his house and luckily he is a carpenter so he decided to take on the direct labour route, he reckons it will save him about €80k-€90k overall on a 3,500 square foot house. I would say from talking to him, you would need to be in the trade and have the knowhow, he did some bartering with Blocklayers for their service, it has taken him approx 6-7months longer than a builders timescale and he has put in maybe 40-50hrs aside from his own job every week on his house for the past 4-5 months.

    You will also need a job which is quite lenient in terms of letting you go away to meet delivery men etc.

    I have heard of a number of Project Managers taking on houses versus a builders price and whatever savings they make, they halve with you, might eb worth looking into that if you don't have the time.

    Bob


  • Options
    #3
    observer2u
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭observer2u


    nok2008 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    Have recently got planning and have all drawings ready to go to builders for pricing but I am getting mixed messages about the savings that can be made when going direct labour. Architect is pushing builder but thats probably more to do with any easier job for him.

    Are there significant savings between the 2 options.

    I know that builders might be stress free but i would prefer to do some hard work to make sure the mortgage is stress free!! The house is circa 2,500 square foot and is being built in East Cork?

    Thanks for any assistance



    Firstly neither route will be stress free. Secondly if you go direct labour this should nor affect your architect in anyway, he will not be required to do any more or less work with either route BUT with direct labour so much more responsibly will be on YOur shoulders


  • Options
    #4
    1chippy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    most builders will get better discounts on materials. they know where to source things easily and most builders provider would rather deal with people who know what they are looking for.
    although if you are reasonably competent in building terms and know exactly what your looking for and are willing to haggle and more than likely end up screaming at a few trades thendirect labour can work.
    the main issue i see with direct labour is scheduling and planning. lots of trades will have to be organised in a very systematic aproach and knowing what has to be done at each new problem.trades on day rate rarely point these things out. the other side of things.
    Most builders will actually build a house at a reasonable rate currently. read somewhere recently that 52% of all tenders were entered below cost last year.
    theres pros and cons for both sides but big savings are usually over inflated most builders currently are happy to get around 4-6% of a profit margin. are you not better to get a builder for something that you will use for the rest of your life rather than take the chance.


  • Options
    #5
    tred
    Registered Users Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭tred


    1chippy wrote: »
    most builders will get better discounts on materials. they know where to source things easily and most builders provider would rather deal with people who know what they are looking for.
    although if you are reasonably competent in building terms and know exactly what your looking for and are willing to haggle and more than likely end up screaming at a few trades thendirect labour can work.
    the main issue i see with direct labour is scheduling and planning. lots of trades will have to be organised in a very systematic aproach and knowing what has to be done at each new problem.trades on day rate rarely point these things out. the other side of things.
    Most builders will actually build a house at a reasonable rate currently. read somewhere recently that 52% of all tenders were entered below cost last year.
    theres pros and cons for both sides but big savings are usually over inflated most builders currently are happy to get around 4-6% of a profit margin. are you not better to get a builder for something that you will use for the rest of your life rather than take the chance.

    I wouldnt agree with you 100 on the builders getting a better price these days. The merchants would bite the hand off a self builder for a chance to price, versus the chances taken with a builder!. I had about 6 Reps approach me, 4 from the planning application, with everything priced upfront handed to me!(cement, wall ties, insulation...etc). If your going downt he building route, make the price is speced down to the lowest detail. thickness of insulation, thickness of roof joists, any plastering details, Bands/ corner stones etc, glazing....even the electrical detail you want.


  • Options
    #6
    BigGeorge
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭BigGeorge


    We found the cost saving of direct labour versus main contractor was about 20% even after upspecing some minor elements.

    Will be moving in next month & its a passive house. Its been a very long year, hands on & you need to factor in a holiday for sure in the budget...you'll need it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    royaler83
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭royaler83


    BigGeorge wrote: »
    We found the cost saving of direct labour versus main contractor was about 20% even after upspecing some minor elements.

    Will be moving in next month & its a passive house. Its been a very long year, hands on & you need to factor in a holiday for sure in the budget...you'll need it.

    Did you have a timescale and if so did going direct labour alter the timescale for the worse?!

    I'd imagine trying to organise various tradesmen to arrive on certain days can be cumbersome especially if you're not on site day in day out


  • Options
    #8
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    BigGeorge wrote: »
    We found the cost saving of direct labour versus main contractor was about 20% even after upspecing some minor elements.

    Will be moving in next month & its a passive house. Its been a very long year, hands on & you need to factor in a holiday for sure in the budget...you'll need it.
    BigG would you elaborate a little and give us an idea of what time comments are involved and what level of research and involvement/ time length you were designing and learning prior to your years build. thanks:)


  • Options
    #9
    BigGeorge
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭BigGeorge


    OK, very broad question , would be happy to discuss in person, but to sumarise 1 year of building & 1 year of research /planning in a short para. We put the house out of tender ( 5 actually) via an architect in May last year & there was a massive variation in the numbers that came back which just could not be readily explained by breaking them down. Bottom line is that we know exactly what the market was looking to charge & what we have actually incurred to date.

    We priced up the various subcomponents & hired a site manager to run the job on site. Have been building since Oct / Nov last year, job almost done. Passive spec with all that such entails. Am an engineer by background and have put a lot of time before hand visiting & talking to people deciding exactly what we wanted. Found expertise on PH was a little thin on the ground. Was aware of many of the trade offs before hitting site and changed absolutely nothing once the job started. This forum has been amazing in terms of ideas to incorporate, as has SAS with whom I;ve bounced a lot of ideas & experiences.

    Its been a massive time commitment tbh . Have a look at passivebuild.blogspot.com to guage the process for yourself. Will put a lot more technical info once the job is done & items like the HRV have proven themselves. Some issues with suppliers but most have been fantastic.


Advertisement