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Woman faces jail for preventing ESB access to her property
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have they put her in prison, i do think it is unfair to do that to her, considering the amount of people who contributed to bringing our country to its knees, and they are still swanning around with pockets bulging, and no mention of putting them behind bars.Folks, perhaps ye might lay off the cranky old biddy comments.
As I understand it, the land owner is entitled to retain ownership of the timber.0 -
have they put her in prison, i do think it is unfair to do that to her, considering the amount of people who contributed to bringing our country to its knees, and they are still swanning around with pockets bulging, and no mention of putting them behind bars.
I agree
Yes, she was brought to Mountjoy womens prison yesterday.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0914/1224304083225.html
On the bright side, our homes are still warm and our fancy computers are still working.0 -
I agree
Yes, she was brought to Mountjoy womens prison yesterday.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0914/1224304083225.html
On the bright side, our homes are still warm and our fancy computers are still working.
Loemolis, your reaction to this story is the worst kind of sentimental rubbish. Just because she is an old woman does not mean she should be able to defy the laws of the land at her discretion. I doubt very much you would have as much sympathy for a thirty year old banker fighting for the trees at his summer home.
All you can see is the headline "Old woman thrown in jail oh noes", when really the headline is "Woman put in jail for defying the Irish judicial system".
The court system does not bow to the whims of individual cases. The facts are the facts whether it is Granny McOldie or Knacker McTraveller who is the relevant party. And thank God for that, or we would be letting people away with murder depending on whatever kneejerk public opinion was popular this week.0 -
jimmycrackcorm wrote: »The ESB said they would plant new trees. I thought that's fair enough.
Really? Because I thought it was a disgustingly patronising offer that showed the complete level of contempt the ESB has for the landowner. They are going to cut down her mature trees, which take longer than a human lifespan to grow to their current size and replace them with sapling which will still be comparatively tiny long after the woman is nothing but dust. They are going to destroy something irreplaceable, offering to plant saplings in their stead is nothing more than a pathetic pr exercise that wouldn't fool anyone with a working brain.0 -
Really? Because I thought it was a disgustingly patronising offer that showed the complete level of contempt the ESB has for the landowner. They are going to cut down her mature trees, which take longer than a human lifespan to grow to their current size and replace them with sapling which will still be comparatively tiny long after the woman is nothing but dust. They are going to destroy something irreplaceable, offering to plant saplings in their stead is nothing more than a pathetic pr exercise that wouldn't fool anyone with a working brain.
Yes it is a PR exercise, but it is just as pathetic that they need to carry out these PR exercises because of the knee-jerk reactions many people have towards stories like this.
These incidents do not take place in a vacuum. We as a society want and need a reliable electricity network. We are prepared to entrust the responsibility for that network to ESB. ESB have to take certain actions to maintain that network. Hold on a second, one individual is upset about actions required, better find alternatives. Oh no, now another ten NIMBYS dont want us on their land, what now? Oh no, now we cant put poles anywhere because all people have to do is fight us in court. Now the network is degrading because of poor infrastructure.
I'm sure they are nice trees and all, but unless you disconnect yourself from the grid you are complicit in the need for a maintained electrical infrastructure, and moaning about that need is rather hypocritical.0 -
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bucketybuck wrote: »Loemolis, your reaction to this story is the worst kind of sentimental rubbish. Just because she is an old woman does not mean she should be able to defy the laws of the land at her discretion. I doubt very much you would have as much sympathy for a thirty year old banker fighting for the trees at his summer home.
All you can see is the headline "Old woman thrown in jail oh noes", when really the headline is "Woman put in jail for defying the Irish judicial system".
The court system does not bow to the whims of individual cases. The facts are the facts whether it is Granny McOldie or Knacker McTraveller who is the relevant party. And thank God for that, or we would be letting people away with murder depending on whatever kneejerk public opinion was popular this week.
I would actually.
Reading one of the earlier posts, someone made it very clear that the route ESB chose was not the only possible route.
Shame on them for doing this to anyone who has the grit and gumption to stand up to this kind of bullying.
Bravo to her!
Shame on them indeed.
Your parallels are the most skewed I have seen on this thread; noone will die and no crime has been committed.0 -
I would actually.
Reading one of the earlier posts, someone made it very clear that the route ESB chose was not the only possible route.
Shame on them for doing this to anyone who has the grit and gumption to stand up to this kind of bullying.
Bravo to her!
Shame on them indeed.
Your parallels are the most skewed I have seen on this thread; noone will die and no crime has been committed.
It is not a skewed parallel to note that if landowners retain the right to deny access to ESB staff, that the majority of landowners will exercise that right. Thats just human nature, and would have major effects on the ability of ESB to operate.
And once again, can I remind everybody that yes, a crime was committed. This lady was not jailed for defending her property, she was jailed for refusing to abide by the decision of the court, a crime in this country. Please try to be more accurate when criticising my posts.0 -
I'd tend to be on the landowners side in this. If it is an area of natural beauty then she is right to resist this :The ESB says it must place five wooden structures and one steel mast on their land, which involves tree cutting, excavations and installation works over a 30-day period.0
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I have sympathy for the woman. Last year the ESB cut some of my trees. Granted the work needed to be done as some branches were very close to the wire. They asked could they cut some of the branches to prevent this from happening. As I had received assurances (verbal) that it would be done in a professional manner and cause no unnecessary damage to the trees I said yes. What I came home to that evening was a scene of destruction with trees hacked off branches and some just cut in half. Some of the trees have subsequently died but the response I received to the death of the trees was that it was due to the harsh winter. It was take decades for the trees to recover. Moral of the tale: hire a tree surgeon to do this work and don't rely on ESB0
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bucketybuck wrote: »Loemolis, your reaction to this story is the worst kind of sentimental rubbish. Just because she is an old woman does not mean she should be able to defy the laws of the land at her discretion. I doubt very much you would have as much sympathy for a thirty year old banker fighting for the trees at his summer home.
All you can see is the headline "Old woman thrown in jail oh noes", when really the headline is "Woman put in jail for defying the Irish judicial system".
The court system does not bow to the whims of individual cases. The facts are the facts whether it is Granny McOldie or Knacker McTraveller who is the relevant party. And thank God for that, or we would be letting people away with murder depending on whatever kneejerk public opinion was popular this week.
I have sympathy for the woman but I'm not making my points out of sympathy.
1. The punishment does not fit the "crime"
This 65 year old woman has been committed to Mountjoy womens prison along with murderers and drug addicts for an indefinite period of time.
Her "crime" was to ignore a court order which said she must allow the ESB onto her land.
Why didn't they just shoot her for such a heinous act.
If you want to sheepishly believe that every court order, government decision and official act is correct and beyond question then how naive are you.
2. The ESB are not blameless in this matter.
The process of placing electricity lines on private land is unregulated.
In the knowledge that they are answerable to no one, the ESB has trampled over landowners for years. The legislation that they are operating under is decades out of date and is not fit for purpose.
Because of this they try to buy a right of way for their electricity lines and in cases where the landowner cannot be bought, they have them committed to prison for not co-operating.
If you are worried that the actions of this woman will cause you to pay more for the electricity running your "fancy computer" then you need not worry, the ESB can waste money all on their own.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1008/1224280633221.html
I think it is also worth noting that they have been previously accused of choosing the route of lines based on the age profile of the landowner.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/eirgrid-profiled-elderly-in-plans-to-build-pylons-2209812.html
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I have sympathy for the woman but I'm not making my points out of sympathy.
1. The punishment does not fit the "crime"
This 65 year old woman has been committed to Mountjoy womens prison along with murderers and drug addicts for an indefinite period of time.
Her "crime" was to ignore a court order which said she must allow the ESB onto her land.
Why didn't they just shoot her for such a heinous act.
If you want to sheepishly believe that every court order, government decision and official act is correct and beyond question then how naive are you.
Pure hand-wringing nonsense.
So if you think a "court order, government decision or official act" is incorrect, then in your world we should just ignore it?
I think I should not have to pay a TV license, should I just ignore my sentence if I am prosecuted? According to Loremolis I should.
And using hyperbole such as "Why didn't they just shoot her for such a heinous act." just illustrates that your argument is based purely on emotionalism as opposed to real world logic.0 -
bucketybuck wrote: »Pure hand-wringing nonsense.
Never heard that expression before.So if you think a "court order, government decision or official act" is incorrect, then in your world we should just ignore it?
We are not sheep. We do not have to mindlessly obey every order and dictat. Nor am I suggesting that we ignore every single law and rule.
We all have a choice. This woman had a choice. My opinion is that she shouldn't go to jail for this. My reasons for this opinion are as per my last post.I think I should not have to pay a TV license, should I just ignore my sentence if I am prosecuted? According to Loremolis I should.
I never said that.
What if you were prosecuted for not having a TV licence and you didn't have a TV. Would you accept your punishment and serve your time without question?
Of course you would because a Licence Inspector and a Judge are never wrong.And using hyperbole such as "Why didn't they just shoot her for such a heinous act." just illustrates that your argument is based purely on emotionalism as opposed to real world logic.
Clearly, that was sarcasm.0 -
No, just the ones that suit you at any particular time.Nor am I suggesting that we ignore every single law and rule.We all have a choice. This woman had a choice. My opinion is that she shouldn't go to jail for this. My reasons for this opinion are as per my last post.
Yes she had a choice. She has a choice to remain in our society. Part of living in our society is obeying our social constructs. Part of ignoring those constructs is facing the consequences. The consequences as accepted by society are jailtime for these offences. She has a choice whether or not to ignore the constructs, but she has no choice in ignoring the consequences.What if you were prosecuted for not having a TV licence and you didn't have a TV. Would you accept your punishment and serve your time without question?
Of course you would because a Licence Inspector and a Judge are never wrong.
If I were wrongly prosecuted I would fight the decision through the same social process that allowed the decision in the first place. What I would not do is stick my head in the sand, turn up to court without a lawyer, and basically thumb my nose up to the Irish legal system crying "f*ck you I won't do what you tell me" like some moody little teenager who hasn't learned the first thing about how society actually functions.0 -
I am surprised at some of the replies posted here.
This lady Ms Treacy is in jail right now for attempting to protect her property which she is entitled to own. She refused access for overhead power lines through her property but as I understand it she offered access for an underground cable. This would solve all problems surely? Electricity can be transmitted by underground cable (as ESB have already done in many places around Ireland- Bantry in 2006, Cobh recently (underground and underwater)in Dublin City - Shellybanks and Inchicore HV underground cables....) The 1927 electricity Act does not state electricity must be transmitted overground.(it states over or under lands...)
If the lady didnt want her lands destroyed and her trees cut down - well then so be it. She is the landowner after all, she should have the say as to what happens to her property. We are all entitled thankful to lock up our homes and protect them and refuse entry to those we dont want on /in our properties. Why should ESB or any other company be any different?0 -
I am surprised at some of the replies posted here.
This lady Ms Treacy is in jail right now for attempting to protect her property which she is entitled to own. She refused access for overhead power lines through her property but as I understand it she offered access for an underground cable. This would solve all problems surely? Electricity can be transmitted by underground cable (as ESB have already done in many places around Ireland- Bantry in 2006, Cobh recently (underground and underwater)in Dublin City - Shellybanks and Inchicore HV underground cables....) The 1927 electricity Act does not state electricity must be transmitted overground.(it states over or under lands...)
If the lady didnt want her lands destroyed and her trees cut down - well then so be it. She is the landowner after all, she should have the say as to what happens to her property. We are all entitled thankful to lock up our homes and protect them and refuse entry to those we dont want on /in our properties. Why should ESB or any other company be any different?
Please try and educate yourself on the both the rights and the responsibilities of being a member of both a state and a society.
And for the last time, this woman is NOT in jail for attempting to defend her property. Saying that just shows your lack of knowledge on the situation.0 -
I also dislike this emotive speak about the trees etc. Has anyone any idea if an ecological survey was carried out? I would be pretty surprised if a report on same hasn't been produced and a detailed method statement available. Are ESB Networks carrying out the clearance work themselves or is it a subbie? Anyway to get back to the habitats and trees, from the photos I have seen the trees are semi-mature at most and the habitats a type which are common and widespread in Ireland. The value in terms of ecology would be low to moderate local value and the impacts are also likely to be low. The mitigation will include working within the limits of the wayleave, protection of trees and hedgerows to be retained, protection of any watercourses and also mitigatory planting where recommended. The habitats will have some moderate value for fauna but as the impact will be minor and short term in nature (disturbance, minor habitat loss) it will not require specific mitigation and will not constitute a significant impact.
The works to put the line in place are relatively minor and once any vegetation has been removed there will be relatively little disturbance contained within a small area. Undergrounding the cable would be hugely expensive and is not carried out with any regularity so I'd imagine that it is not cost effective in this situation. We are are pretty fed up with the government & state/semi-state agencies wasting money but it seems we are only fed up in situations which suit ourselves. We can't have it every way!
The emotive language used to describe this situation in the media and indeed by posters in this thread is misleading and would make anyone think we were losing ancient woodland and our entire faunal population:rolleyes:0 -
There is a matter of natural justice here. This women by all accounts is a very kind and caring respectable person and should not be treated in this manner by the authorities. I have witnessed very serious criminals being treated better by the courts and the state authorities. It is very obvious that the decent and respectable person is not given any respect, but is instead harassed at every turn in every walk of life.
People on here are saying that this will improve the price of electricity, but how can this be if the higher-level managers and even the ordinary workers are given perks at the expense of the ordinary electricity user.
I admire the stand this women is taking and if I was related to her I would be proud of her. Also, there are a lot of users on here attacking this women unfairly so I would be interested to know where their interests lie.
Show some respect for that LADY, release her, and let her go home to her OWN home and land.0 -
Justice for the individual wrote: »There is a matter of natural justice here. This women by all accounts is a very kind and caring respectable person and should not be treated in this manner by the authorities. I have witnessed very serious criminals being treated better by the courts and the state authorities. It is very obvious that the decent and respectable person is not given any respect, but is instead harassed at every turn in every walk of life.
People on here are saying that this will improve the price of electricity, but how can this be if the higher-level managers and even the ordinary workers are given perks at the expense of the ordinary electricity user.
I admire the stand this women is taking and if I was related to her I would be proud of her. Also, there are a lot of users on here attacking this women unfairly so I would be interested to know where their interests lie.
Show some respect for that LADY, release her, and let her go home to her OWN home and land.
Hmmmmm
Excellent first post. Specially created account by any chance??0 -
Natural justice is emotive and far more dangerous to the individual than a black and white system of laws and statutes. Natural justice is the type of populist reactionary rubbish that once saw witches burned at the stake, I would not be so quick to praise "natural" justice if I was you. Natural justice is just whatever public opinion is at any particular time, and I would hardly call the general public well-informed.Justice for the individual wrote: »There is a matter of natural justice here.
Assuming facts not in evidence. By all accounts this woman is a loon who did not even consult a lawyer before defying a court order.This women by all accounts is a very kind and caring respectable person
I assure you that when hardened criminals defy court orders they regularly serve jail time for that offence.I have witnessed very serious criminals being treated better by the courts and the state authorities.
Thats it brother, fight the power.It is very obvious that the decent and respectable person is not given any respect, but is instead harassed at every turn in every walk of life.
Who is talking about the price of electricity? The point is that if we want a consistent network supply we have to allow ESB the latitude to make decisions relating to that supply. The alternative is a very different system of electricity supply. This WOMANS individual wants should not trump that collective need.People on here are saying that this will improve the price of electricity,
Ah, now I see, you want Ireland to move to communism.but how can this be if the higher-level managers and even the ordinary workers are given perks at the expense of the ordinary electricity user.
I also hope you would give her some advice, perhaps get her a freaking lawyer.I admire the stand this women is taking and if I was related to her I would be proud of her.
My interests lie is pointing out that supporting this ladies actions is a very narrow viewpoint that misses the bigger picture for our country and our society.Also, there are a lot of users on here attacking this women unfairly so I would be interested to know where their interests lie.
Perhaps the lady in question could have shown some respect towards the country of Ireland, a country whose laws she apparently feels she can ignore at will.Show some respect for that LADY, release her, and let her go home to her OWN home and land.
I do hope your second post considers all facets of this case, instead of just the simplistic idea that some Granny McFlowerpot has been hard done by.0 -
bucketybuck wrote: »Natural justice is emotive and far more dangerous to the individual than a black and white system of laws and statutes. Natural justice is the type of populist reactionary rubbish that once saw witches burned at the stake, I would not be so quick to praise "natural" justice if I was you. Natural justice is just whatever public opinion is at any particular time, and I would hardly call the general public well-informed.
Clearly the general public are not as well informed as you are.
Informed about what?Assuming facts not in evidence. By all accounts this woman is a loon who did not even consult a lawyer before defying a court order.
"This woman is a loon?" Thats your argument for "facts not in evidence?"I assure you that when hardened criminals defy court orders they regularly serve jail time for that offence.
"regularly"? Why not all of the time?
Why is this woman sent straight to prison for an undetermined amount of time when hardened criminals are only punished "regularly"?
This woman is not a hardened criminal.Thats it brother, fight the power.
Sarcasm, good argument.Who is talking about the price of electricity? The point is that if we want a consistent network supply we have to allow ESB the latitude to make decisions relating to that supply. The alternative is a very different system of electricity supply. This WOMANS individual wants should not trump that collective need.
A number of previous posts in this thread have mentioned the cost of electricity.
The ESB's "latitude" for the erection of electricity lines is unregulated. Shouldn't there be someone in an independent position regulating this?The alternative is a very different system of electricity supply?
Like what? The UK system?
Do you even know anything about the ESB's system of placing lines on private property?Ah, now I see, you want Ireland to move to communism.
More sarcasm.I also hope you would give her some advice, perhaps get her a freaking lawyer.
A freaking lawyer would do no good for her.
She probably should have used a calm and intelligent lawyer, but perhaps she couldn't afford one.My interests lie is pointing out that supporting this ladies actions is a very narrow viewpoint that misses the bigger picture for our country and our society.
Society should look after everyone equally and not make punish those who are unable to stand up for themselves.Perhaps the lady in question could have shown some respect towards the country of Ireland, a country whose laws she apparently feels she can ignore at will.
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/4319FA63-D2D7-4E76-9A8F-B69016A1B63E/0/FOI20112RequestandReply.pdf
Laws are for some and not for others.I do hope your second post considers all facets of this case, instead of just the simplistic idea that some Granny McFlowerpot has been hard done by.
Other than say that society needs laws and electricity, you have made no argument in support of your position.
You've ignored all previous posts in favour of your hard line approach to the treatment of the woman in question.0 -
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Clearly the general public are not as well informed as you are.
Informed about what?
Holy Molis. I don't even know where to start, it is so obvious you have parsed my whole post but you don't actually understand much of what was said. Right from the first line, "Informed about what". Seriously? I make the point that laws should not be subject to the whims of public opinion because the public tends to be uninformed. And what is your reply? "Informed about what". Well for starters, how many people in this thread still believe this lady was jailed for denying access to her property? Thats the general public for you.
Then you drop this idiocy
The previous poster states this woman was a kind and caring person. I quite correctly stated that there is nothing to support that assertation. In counterpoint I offered something there is evidence for, the fact she was crazy enough not to retain legal advice. I wasn't arguing for "facts not in evidence", I was illustrating it. Clearly, clearly, you do not understand the English language."This woman is a loon?" Thats your argument for "facts not in evidence?"
And what then. I say criminals do get sent to prison for defying court orders. Because of how the world works, there may well have been a case where somebody did not get sent to jail for this. I am not aware of any example, but hey, perhaps there is one, so I added the modifier "regularly" to my original post. The point still stood for anybody with half a brain. But your response? "hurr durr well why arent they sent to jail all the time hurr durr". Sweet Jesus thats the dumbest response to an internet post I have ever seen, and I have been on Yahoo answers.
Its unreal. How can somebody so completely miss the point so much of the time. "Like what? The UK system?". What, you can't understand the consequence that if ESB cannot place power lines on private property at their discretion they will be unable to maintain the network. And what would happen then? Even five year olds could answer that one.
I could go through every line you have just written, but each is as inane as the last. What disappoints me the most is that I have wasted my time bothering to respond to it, considering you clearly have little grasp of the situation beyond your deep anger that somebody had to face the consequences of their actions.
Finally, "I have made no argument in support of my position". Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I have made no argument in support of my position that you can understand.0 -
bucketybuck wrote: »Natural justice is emotive and far more dangerous to the individual than a black and white system of laws and statutes. Natural justice is the type of populist reactionary rubbish that once saw witches burned at the stake, I would not be so quick to praise "natural" justice if I was you. Natural justice is just whatever public opinion is at any particular time, and I would hardly call the general public well-informed.
Assuming facts not in evidence. By all accounts this woman is a loon who did not even consult a lawyer before defying a court order.
I assure you that when hardened criminals defy court orders they regularly serve jail time for that offence.
Thats it brother, fight the power.
Who is talking about the price of electricity? The point is that if we want a consistent network supply we have to allow ESB the latitude to make decisions relating to that supply. The alternative is a very different system of electricity supply. This WOMANS individual wants should not trump that collective need.
Ah, now I see, you want Ireland to move to communism.
I also hope you would give her some advice, perhaps get her a freaking lawyer.
My interests lie is pointing out that supporting this ladies actions is a very narrow viewpoint that misses the bigger picture for our country and our society.
Perhaps the lady in question could have shown some respect towards the country of Ireland, a country whose laws she apparently feels she can ignore at will.
I do hope your second post considers all facets of this case, instead of just the simplistic idea that some Granny McFlowerpot has been hard done by.
So you want a dictatorship then? Is respect and fair play for the individual not in your interests also?. It is the job of the courts and the justice system to be impartial. The powerful should not be allowed to dominate the weak, so what is wrong with that? I also cannot understand why you are making insulting remarks about a person you possibly do not know. This women is standing up for herself and as you would understand yourself, nobody likes a bully.0 -
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Knock it off.
While I understand your intentions, why is it that this lady can be characterised as "a very kind and caring respectable person", a claim completely without any evidence and used to present her as the victim in every way? Yet to highlight this by describing her otherwise gets sanctioned?
Hardly a big deal, but frustrating that for some people the only argument they can present is that "she is an old woman, leave her alone", and that cannot be responded to.0 -
It is the job of the courts and the justice system to be impartial.The powerful should not be allowed to dominate the weak, so what is wrong with that?It is the job of the courts and the justice system to be impartial.
Do you think that the court has been impartial in this case?0 -
bucketybuck wrote: »Holy Molis. I don't even know where to start, it is so obvious you have parsed my whole post but you don't actually understand much of what was said. Right from the first line, "Informed about what". Seriously? I make the point that laws should not be subject to the whims of public opinion because the public tends to be uninformed. And what is your reply? "Informed about what". Well for starters, how many people in this thread still believe this lady was jailed for denying access to her property? Thats the general public for you.
Then you drop this idiocy
The previous poster states this woman was a kind and caring person. I quite correctly stated that there is nothing to support that assertation. In counterpoint I offered something there is evidence for, the fact she was crazy enough not to retain legal advice. I wasn't arguing for "facts not in evidence", I was illustrating it. Clearly, clearly, you do not understand the English language.
And what then. I say criminals do get sent to prison for defying court orders. Because of how the world works, there may well have been a case where somebody did not get sent to jail for this. I am not aware of any example, but hey, perhaps there is one, so I added the modifier "regularly" to my original post. The point still stood for anybody with half a brain. But your response? "hurr durr well why arent they sent to jail all the time hurr durr". Sweet Jesus thats the dumbest response to an internet post I have ever seen, and I have been on Yahoo answers.
Its unreal. How can somebody so completely miss the point so much of the time. "Like what? The UK system?". What, you can't understand the consequence that if ESB cannot place power lines on private property at their discretion they will be unable to maintain the network. And what would happen then? Even five year olds could answer that one.
I could go through every line you have just written, but each is as inane as the last. What disappoints me the most is that I have wasted my time bothering to respond to it, considering you clearly have little grasp of the situation beyond your deep anger that somebody had to face the consequences of their actions.
Finally, "I have made no argument in support of my position". Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I have made no argument in support of my position that you can understand.
Again, no counter argument.
"Even five year olds could understand answer that one" is not counter argument.
Speculating on my understanding of the English language is not a counter argument.
Getting annoyed and frustrated because your understanding of the specific issue is limited isn't a counter argument.
I've made several valid points in my previous posts, all of which you've managed to avoid discussing.
All I hear is society this, society that, society will crumble because this woman stopped the ESB.
Your responses on this topic are generic reactionary rubbish could just as easily be cut and pasted as an answer into many of the other forums on this site.
The heading of this thread is "Woman faces jail for preventing ESB access to her property". If yo want to keep arguing over the point of exactly why she went to jail just to avoid any real discussion on the rights and wrongs of it then off you go.0 -
Again, no counter argument.
"Even five year olds could understand answer that one" is not counter argument.
Speculating on my understanding of the English language is not a counter argument.
Getting annoyed and frustrated because your understanding of the specific issue is limited isn't a counter argument.
I've made several valid points in my previous posts, all of which you've managed to avoid discussing.
All I hear is society this, society that, society will crumble because this woman stopped the ESB.
Your responses on this topic are generic reactionary rubbish could just as easily be cut and pasted as an answer into many of the other forums on this site.
The heading of this thread is "Woman faces jail for preventing ESB access to her property". If yo want to keep arguing over the point of exactly why she went to jail just to avoid any real discussion on the rights and wrongs of it then off you go.
Using this logic, you Loremolis, have not offered any argument at all. Would you like to do so, and I will respond to your argument?0 -
bucketybuck wrote: »Using this logic, you Loremolis, have not offered any argument at all. Would you like to do so, and I will respond to your argument?
As I said, I've already made my points in my previous posts.
Have a look.0 -
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Eirgrid was cited in the court, along with ESB. Eirgrid has no statutory powers to enter on lands without permission. This Woman needs a lawyer, she'll be out in five minutes. Her mistake was in going into court without a proper lawyer.
The ESB has huge expertise in overhead powerlines, but very little up to date experience in underground cabling. It uses comparisons against the cost of undergrounding lines in urban areas to justify not doing so in rural areas. ESB doesn't want to go down the route of undergrounding; too many managerial careers are staked on overhead lines.
If all costs are taken into account, compensation etc included, shorter underground rputes taken into account, and like is compared with like, the underground option costs around the same. Moving to underground on a large scale would destroy a few careers, so it won't happen.0
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