Question on alpaca farming

Starscream25

Hi everyone, just wondering does anyone have any experience breeding or buying alpacas. Are they being sold, has anyone bought an alpaca or two and how was the experience? is a return in capital expected? is it a business anyone has any experience in at all? I've done a bit of research on alpaca websites myself but its only natural for them to paint a positive picture of the industry.
Just fishing for thoughts really on how to get out of this god forsaken rat race.
Anyway, any information would be greatly appreciated.

LostCovey

Starscream25 wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wondering does anyone have any experience breeding or buying alpacas. Are they being sold, has anyone bought an alpaca or two and how was the experience? is a return in capital expected? is it a business anyone has any experience in at all? I've done a bit of research on alpaca websites myself but its only natural for them to paint a positive picture of the industry.
Just fishing for thoughts really on how to get out of this god forsaken rat race.
Anyway, any information would be greatly appreciated.

I have no information, only an opinion.

Alapaca meat is probably nice, but not worth much more than beef or lamb.

Alpaca wool is probably nice, but not worth much more than sheep wool.

They have the reputation of helping keep foxes at bay and reducing causalties among young lambs at yeaning time.

The current prices seem obscenely inflated, and largely due to their relative scarcity, the plentiness of hobby farmers and the demand for breeding stock.

I think that like red deer, fallow deer, ostriches, bison and any other recent novelty farm animal popularised in Ireland, the prices will fall when the market for breeding stock is satisfied, and price becomes related to the value of actual production - the commodity they produce.

Might buy a few then myself!

In the meantime, if I had the price of a few alpacas I would change the car or go on a holiday instead.

LC

Rovi

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What he said.

I too have no particular knowledge of alpacas, but long experience of observing the comings and goings of various 'new' farm enterprises over the decades has shown me that the decent money is made at the very beginning by the suppliers of root/breeding stock.
This is inevitably (to the best of my recollection) followed by a collapse in prices/numbers as whatever market there is becomes saturated and the product finds its 'natural' price level. Most of the 2nd generation people fall off at this point as their expensively purchased root/breeding stock reaches its natural expiry date and/or the economics of selling their product at market prices no longer makes sense.

A few stubborn enthusiasts will often stick with it and weather the depressed prices of a saturated market, and will go on to make what they consider to be an adequate living (ie. on a per with other conventional farm enterprises) at it when the oversupply problem resolves itself.

In short, look at the economics very carefully, and do your best to be in the 1st generation of breeding stock sellers.

johngalway

Rovi wrote: »

but long experience of observing the comings and goings of various 'new' farm enterprises over the decades has shown me that the decent money is made at the very beginning by the suppliers of root/breeding stock.

Yep. Seems that way to me also. There's great talk about wool etc. but when you delve into the subject you find out the only money being made is by selling stock to others, not the other products they're supposedly famed for, that fact should set alarm bells going.

I would steer clear.

MacraPat

Yond boy two posts up says it more eloquently than I ever could.
In truth the same could probably be said about horses, rare breed : cattle, chickens, sheep or outdoor pigs. The only way to make money on them is selling their progeny to the next gobsh!te coming down the road. Any joy you get out of them would offset the financial sting in the mean time.



That being said....
Goats meat is a rapidly expanding market at home and abroad.....Kiko goats ......laughing all the way to the bank lad.

Grecco

Starscream25 wrote: »

Just fishing for thoughts really on how to get out of this god forsaken rat race.
Anyway, any information would be greatly appreciated.

I don't think they`ll get you out of the rat race (so keep running it`ll keep you fit and sharp!!)
, but could make a nice distraction if you have a few quid to spend. I seen a farm near me that has them but it also has some serious fencing done. I`d say if you spent that type of money on fencing cattle you`d have a handy life !!!

lanod2407

As per the above - would like to have a few of them roaming around, but the business model is the same as all the predecessors ....... tbh I'm surprised that the overall downturn hasn't burst the bubble on this one already.......

bnear

Hi Starscream 25 I'm an alpaca owner and have been for about 5 years. There are very few in Ireland at the moment so the for the forseeable future the business will be supplying animals to new buyers. Alpacas have been in the UK for over 20 years and have held their value so I think we can assume that the same will happen here.....We're working on developing the market for the fleece here and that will be an extra income in the future, alpaca fleece is very fine, like cashmere, so it sells for a lot more than sheep wool..If you want to pm me I can answer any questions you have or if I cant I put you in touch with someone who can.:)

Starscream25

bnear wrote: »

Hi Starscream 25 I'm an alpaca owner and have been for about 5 years. There are very few in Ireland at the moment so the for the forseeable future the business will be supplying animals to new buyers. Alpacas have been in the UK for over 20 years and have held their value so I think we can assume that the same will happen here.....We're working on developing the market for the fleece here and that will be an extra income in the future, alpaca fleece is very fine, like cashmere, so it sells for a lot more than sheep wool..If you want to pm me I can answer any questions you have or if I cant I put you in touch with someone who can.:)

hi bnear, just wondering how and why did you get into it? Did you start off with a small enough herd?how are things after 5 years, do you make sales often enough?to be honest if i did get into it i would only consider starting with a very very small number to begin with maybe as little as two pregnant females and see how it develops.
i read somewhere that its relatively cheap to look after an alpaca ,much the same cost as owning a pet dog or would that be an exaggeration?
i also came across an article that said ,arithmetically speaking starting off with 4 pregnant females after ten years the herd size would reach around the 120 mark considering sexual maturuty age and the 11.5 month gestation period and the short time for the female to start the process over again, from this it seems that only the initial investment is the biggest lump sum put into it. it just seems that if you 'let them at it' so to speak with your chosen stud that its a business that will grow itself obviously with care and attention given to the herd.
any farms in cork?
thanks everyone for your reply's and information. i completely understand that caution should be thrown to the wind on this one considering past breeds that were not financially viable after the initial claims

LostCovey

bnear wrote: »

alpaca fleece is very fine, like cashmere, so it sells for a lot more than sheep wool

Who buys the wool, and what is the going price/kilo this year?

LC

EGAR

Emma is in Cork, Starscream: http://www.westcorkalpacas.com/

LostCovey

LostCovey wrote: »

Who buys the wool, and what is the going price/kilo this year?

LC

I assume the complete silence means that nobody is really buying alpaca wool and the idea that alpaca fleeeces are valuable is a bottle of smoke.

Even with mountain sheep, the wool has a (very low) value and SOMEBODY is buying and using it. At least sheep wool sales take the sting out of the cost of shearing, or even leave a bit of profit more recently

As farmed livestock, alpacas are a pyramid scheme species.

LC

bnear

Hi LostCovey
The reason for no response is that I was not online over the last few days, my apologies for having a social life but there is a wide world outside cyberspace :rolleyes: At the moment we are selling our fleece to the Uk just like the sheep farmers as there are no mills left in Ireland as far as I know all fleece goes to the UK to be processed and then back here.... I'm sure if I'm wrong you'll correct me ! As an association we have a few things in the pipeline and hope to have a new venture started soon which will mean a buyer for the fleece in Ireland. I sell some fleeces to local spinners and weavers are very interested too, I have'nt sent this years to the UK so don't know what the market price is yet but I will find out and let you know... It might take a couple of days as i'm pretty busy out there in the real world just in case you're think I've disappeared I did reply tStarscream 25s post by pm in case you think I avoided that too....

LostCovey

bnear wrote: »

Hi LostCovey
The reason for no response is that I was not online over the last few days, my apologies for having a social life but there is a wide world outside cyberspace :rolleyes: At the moment we are selling our fleece to the Uk just like the sheep farmers as there are no mills left in Ireland as far as I know all fleece goes to the UK to be processed and then back here.... I'm sure if I'm wrong you'll correct me ! As an association we have a few things in the pipeline and hope to have a new venture started soon which will mean a buyer for the fleece in Ireland. I sell some fleeces to local spinners and weavers are very interested too, I have'nt sent this years to the UK so don't know what the market price is yet but I will find out and let you know... It might take a couple of days as i'm pretty busy out there in the real world just in case you're think I've disappeared I did reply tStarscream 25s post by pm in case you think I avoided that too....

No bother bnear.

However in the case of sheep wool, it would be fairly easy to indicate who is buying, and how much they are paying per kilo. Your answer suggests that's not possible for alpaca wool - yet there is some implication that it is more valuable than sheep wool.

I have a bit of a problem with alpaca breeders suggesting their livestock are worth 10 times the price of a sheep, but without any real indication of what the market for alpaca products is.

Nevertheless, I wish you the best of luck with your enterprise.

LostCovey

bnear

Thanks for the good luck wished LostCovey, I've emailed an alpaca breeder in the UK to see what fleece is selling for this year, you may want to have a look at their website as they have an online shop so you can see for yourself the prices that alpaca garments and yarn are selling for in the UK. They have been in business for 18 years so we are quite a ways behind them I think its unrealistic to expect us to be as far along with the retail sector as alpacas are a relatively new venture in Ireland. I will let you know fleece prices when I get them, would'nt want you to think I'm ducking the question, just don't have the info yet www.toftalpacas.com

LostCovey

bnear wrote: »

Thanks for the good luck wished LostCovey, I've emailed an alpaca breeder in the UK to see what fleece is selling for this year, you may want to have a look at their website as they have an online shop so you can see for yourself the prices that alpaca garments and yarn are selling for in the UK. They have been in business for 18 years so we are quite a ways behind them I think its unrealistic to expect us to be as far along with the retail sector as alpacas are a relatively new venture in Ireland. I will let you know fleece prices when I get them, would'nt want you to think I'm ducking the question, just don't have the info yet www.toftalpacas.com

No worries bnear, I did not mean this to evolve into an interrogation of one person, I would have thought there would be others out there with the info.

That website link isn't working - maybe a typo?

LC

Rovi

LostCovey wrote: »

That website link isn't working - maybe a typo?

I'd say this is it:
http://www.toft-alpacas.co.uk

ClimberC

Im not a farmer, just a farm hand with a few acres. When i seen one of them links i thought, holy Fcuk i want one!

I have never seen one at sales or anywhere for that matter. Where do you get them?
How much do they cost?
I would love to put one in one of my bosses fields to see the look on his face as he tried to figure out what it is

LostCovey

ClimberC wrote: »

Im not a farmer, just a farm hand with a few acres. When i seen one of them links i thought, holy Fcuk i want one!

I have never seen one at sales or anywhere for that matter. Where do you get them?
How much do they cost?
I would love to put one in one of my bosses fields to see the look on his face as he tried to figure out what it is

€400 - €1500 each seems to be the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.donedeal.ie/find/otheranimals/for-sale/Ireland/alpaca

If I were you, I'd borrow one!

This emperor has no clothes.......

LostCovey

ClimberC

Thats a pity, actually they look like great fun. that being said, so do bears.......................:p

bnear

Hi Lc
Sorry have'nt been on site since yesterday morning but it is www.toftalpaca.co.uk , sorry bout that....Don't worry I don't feel picked on ! Obviously other alpaca owners are busy people and have no time to be on boards !!
ClimberC if you're just looking looking for a couple of lawnmowers, which would be gelded or ungelded males you would be taking from 1,000 and up for 2. Alpacas can live to be in their 20s so you'd have them for a long time and if you have sheep or hens they're great flock guardians. The Alpaca Association of Ireland has a website www.aai.ie theres a list there of alpaca breeders if anyone want to contact one in their area. We;re all happy to have people come visit and see our alpacas and we'll answer any questions. In fact I'm planning to organise a few open days next year so people can come to my farm and learn about alpacas because theres a lot of interest in them.

Rovi

bnear wrote: »

The Alpaca Association of Ireland has a website www.aai.ie

This, perhaps?:
http://www.alpaca.ie/

bnear

Sorry bout that not having a good day with websites !!! Comes from trying to do too many things at once