Johnny & Jimmy (GBFM) saving Galways Roundabouts

scholar007

On the GBFM news at 1 - apparently Johnny & Jimmy are conducting a poll on whether the corpo should go ahead with their inspirational demolition of our roundabouts to be replaced with traffic lights. You gotta text a number with a yes or no answer.

At 1pm, it was a majority vote at that point in time of retaining the roundabouts.

Go on Johnny & Jimmy - Our saviours!!!

extraice

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72494393&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=notify#post72494393

there this poll that being going on for a while , it was started off 15-04-2011
so Johnny & Jimmy , not the frist to poll this ....

Its time we now prost

where the planning permiters ? where the stats to bacjk up this change ...
sould be on line ?

Fair play to them, roundabouts are miles ahead of bloody lights.

I voted wrong - I meant get rid of them.

I have been in th pub all evening.

martyboy48

Johnny & Jimmy are right annoying twats.... Hate it when I have to listen to their sh1te..

pleasant Co.

Jet packs please!

I wonder how many of Jimmy's listeners are people sitting in cars on their own.

ben.schlomo

I'd vote against anything Jimmy Norman is for. Theres no word to describe how much he irritates me.

snubbleste

Would you pay 30c for the text. I would'nt.

sentient_6

You can't just say a blanket yes or no to every roundabout getting changed or not. Some of them work well, others not so well. The only two id even entertain the notion of doing anything about is the headford & the one at the top of sean mulvoy/bohermore. & not even that traffic lights are definately the answer with them. But even 90% of the time those roundabouts work too.

But to start with the biarhill.......augh. There's nothing wrong there, i think the council are mental.

ben.schlomo

snubbleste wrote: »

Would you pay 30c for the text. I would'nt.

Id happily pay a subscription for an anti-jimmy norman service.:D

Diabhal Beag

I've learnt to never listen to Galway Bay. It's a lesson that has served me well.

GalwayGaillimh

it would be bad driving around the town at night and get stuck at lights when prior you could whizz through the roundabouts. In my mind the roundabouts work well, just during the day alot of people tend to forget the roundabout rule
"Look forward before moving on to make sure that traffic in front of you on the roundabout has moved off. This means that you will be able to move on to the roundabout without blocking any traffic coming from your right. "

the realpigiron

19 people on this thread so far have voted to get rid of the roundabouts and presumably replace them with traffic lights. Can any of you come on here and give an account of why you think it's a good idea to go ahead with this plan to replace roundabouts with traffic lights?

When it comes to pedestrians and cyclists surely it's a better idea to build flyovers or tunnels.

GalwayGaillimh

the realpigiron wrote: »

19 people on this thread so far have voted to et rid of the roundabouts and presumably replace them with traffic lights. Can any of you come on here and give an account of why you think it's a good idea to go ahead with this plan to replace roundabouts with traffic lights. When it comes to pedestrians and cyclists surely it's a better idea to build flyovers or tunnels.

They only think in 2D getting them to dig tunnels or put up overpasses like on the continent that would help traffic flow would require a mind meld with Spock or something.

Maybe we could get that faith healer seventh son of a seventh son who is in the advertiser fighting a war against smoking and fat every week to fight traffic congestion instead?

galwaycyclist

the realpigiron wrote: »

19 people on this thread so far have voted to get rid of the roundabouts and presumably replace them with traffic lights. Can any of you come on here and give an account of why you think it's a good idea to go ahead with this plan to replace roundabouts with traffic lights?

When it comes to pedestrians and cyclists surely it's a better idea to build flyovers or tunnels.

http://www.oocities.org/galwaycyclist/info/roundabouts.html

the realpigiron

galwaycyclist wrote: »

http://www.oocities.org/galwaycyclist/info/roundabouts.html

Ok reading some of that, but what of your own opinion? Do you think the installation of lights has helped or made the traffic conjestion worse at Moneenageisha for example?

That article you linked there appears fine in theory, but in practise traffic lights everywhere is a disaster. All those lights on the Dublin Road leading to Moneenageisha has basically rendered that route - including Lough Atalia - a no go area for motorists most of the time.

GalwayGaillimh

I never saw traffic on a Sunday backed up College road or the hill by the haunted house till those lights went in at Moneenageisha.

galwaycyclist

With regret I am not in a position to express any confidence in the ability of the engineers in Galway City Council to manage traffic lights effectively. That said we can't go on with business as usual either.

Also I don't believe what is going on at Briarhill, Morris or Font is driven in the first instance by any concern for cyclists or pedestrians.


I do believe moneennageisha is now better for cyclists and pedestrians but there may also have been other solutions besides traffic lights. The problem with catering for cars is that eventually the number of cars will grow to occupy the capacity you have given them. So you need to start giving some back to other forms of transport.

Mrs OBumble

the realpigiron wrote: »

19 people on this thread so far have voted to get rid of the roundabouts and presumably replace them with traffic lights. Can any of you come on here and give an account of why you think it's a good idea to go ahead with this plan to replace roundabouts with traffic lights?

When it comes to pedestrians and cyclists surely it's a better idea to build flyovers or tunnels.

Tunnels are not a good idea for pedestrians, given the levels of anti-social behaviour in this country. Ditto overhead walkways for pedestrians.

Flyovers for motor vehicles would be fantastic, but have a far greater environmental impact and are very expensive. Trumpet (etc) design roundabouts are similar and take a lot of land - and don't deliver for pedestrians in general.

Which brings us back to lights. They have some specific advantages:
1) pedestrian cycles
2) can be set to give priority to buses: at the end of the day, we just cannot keep burning oil at the same rate we do now, we need people to move to public or at least shared transport
3) give traffic control people the means to control flows in unusual situations - timings can be changed from a central computer as required.

Hows that for some reasons.

Interesting to note that even though only a few of use are audibly in support of lights, the poll results show we're not alone.

dec25532

There is a video on boards (I think it is from Amsterdam, but not sure) which shows that cyclists are given preferential treatment to motorists and if something similar was adopted in Galway city then it would increase cycle use in the city, lessen the amount of cars in the city and render it unnecessary for the City Council to root up or replace any of the roundabouts. Personally, I think the City Council want cars to come into the city and park in their overly priced car parks day in, day out.

the realpigiron

JustMary wrote: »

Tunnels are not a good idea for pedestrians, given the levels of anti-social behaviour in this country. Ditto overhead walkways for pedestrians.

Flyovers for motor vehicles would be fantastic, but have a far greater environmental impact and are very expensive. Trumpet (etc) design roundabouts are similar and take a lot of land - and don't deliver for pedestrians in general.

Which brings us back to lights. They have some specific advantages:
1) pedestrian cycles
2) can be set to give priority to buses: at the end of the day, we just cannot keep burning oil at the same rate we do now, we need people to move to public or at least shared transport
3) give traffic control people the means to control flows in unusual situations - timings can be changed from a central computer as required.

Hows that for some reasons.

Interesting to note that even though only a few of use are audibly in support of lights, the poll results show we're not alone.

I've no problems with traffic lights per se - although I believe they are expensive to operate and maintain - I do have a problem with installing traffic light systems that lead to further traffic congestion as is what has happened at Moneenageisha. Are we going to see those issues of worsening traffic congestion at Moneenageisha replicated at Briarhill and elsewhere due to the installation of traffic light systems?

The 3 points you make there are valid but it appears that the latter two of those points have not been implemented thus far. What's happening is they are just installing light systems that are worsening the traffic congestion, without at the same time implementing changes that may alleviate traffic problems.

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

Tunnels are not a good idea for pedestrians, given the levels of anti-social behaviour in this country. Ditto overhead walkways for pedestrians.

I have to disagree with this (edit: wrt bridges, I agree tunnels are a bad idea), as it seems to be a problem of perception rather than fact.


There are several pedestrian bridges in Dublin that work very well, such as this one on the N4

I've also had used the fantastic set of pedestrian walkways & bridges near one of the campuses of John Moores University in Liverpool (at the junction of Hunter St & A580).

irishdude11

Pedestrians me hole. Like alot of people here, I go through the Monagheesha junction multiple times a day. And what always strikes me is how you will have, at all times, 30+ cars backed up on the hill leading down to the junction yet there is not a sinner walking on the footpath. And this at non-rush hour times and only looking at one approach to the junction. I reckon from obvervation that there must be at least 50 cars (which can contain more than one passenger), on average, going through the junction for every pedestrian. Next time you are stuck at this junction observe the ratio of cars backed up in all directions compared the amount of pedestrians....It is a ****ing joke to be delaying motorists even longer at this junction, and the other planned junctions, when they outnumber pedestrians by a massive amount. 'Pedestrians' dont even give a damn anyway, its not like its a major task for someone to cross a road, we have all been doing it since we were years old. The traffic is backed up so much about the roundabouts anyway that it has always been easy to simply walk through stopped cars. Its only in countries that are overly beauracratic like this one that such a big deal has to be made out of people crossing a road.

I think the only reason the Council are going ahead with this is so they can maintain the level of cash they are allocated by the government.

scholar007

My own personal opinion is, get rid of the traffic lights on the magic roundabout and hey presto - traffic problem solved - Only problem is, the corpo spent loads of dosh on them and will do anything to justify keeping them there.

desaparecidos

I was just at the Moneenageisha lights, on the Dublin Rd side.

I had to wait 3 light sequences to get through. When there was a roundabout there I never once experienced any delay, barely had to stop.

I suppose it would help if people could just GO on green. Why does it take a domino effect? Why can't the line of traffic just all go at the same time?

ciotog

desaparecidos wrote: »

I suppose it would help if people could just GO on green. Why does it take a domino effect? Why can't the line of traffic just all go at the same time?

A lack of road use skills is a part of the traffic problems. As you've noticed people aren't prepared to move when they can. You see it with some people overtaking, often they'll do it when it's narrow or there's oncoming traffic. Yet, on a wide, open, straight road they're dawdling. To an extent that's people being aware of the situation around them rather than just focussing on self. The lack of skill is also evident on the roundabouts and it's that which has contributed to an extent to the issues with roundabouts. Indicators and correct lane - it's not really that hard is it?

ciotog

antoobrien wrote: »

I have to disagree with this, as it seems to be a problem of perception rather than fact.


There are several pedestrian bridges in Dublin that work very well, such as this one on the N4

I've also had used the fantastic set of pedestrian walkways & bridges near one of the campuses of John Moores University in Liverpool (at the junction of Hunter St & A580).

I've found the one under the Briarhill roundabout has more people drinking there earlier in the evening lately. It's unlit and I am sometimes a bit nervous about it. There are ways to address the perception of safety but it also wouldn't hurt to have some gardai pass through there at some points of an evening.

what_traffic

JustMary wrote: »

3) give traffic control people the means to control flows in unusual situations - timings can be changed from a central computer as required.

This is a very good point - and I believe the main reason the NRA / City Council executive want the lights. Will be able to Control the flow of vechicular traffic at peak times on the N6.

Iwannahurl

galwaycyclist wrote: »

With regret I am not in a position to express any confidence in the ability of the engineers in Galway City Council to manage traffic lights effectively. That said we can't go on with business as usual either.

Also I don't believe what is going on at Briarhill, Morris or Font is driven in the first instance by any concern for cyclists or pedestrians.


I do believe moneennageisha is now better for cyclists and pedestrians but there may also have been other solutions besides traffic lights. The problem with catering for cars is that eventually the number of cars will grow to occupy the capacity you have given them. So you need to start giving some back to other forms of transport.

Agreed: the status quo is not an option. The policy for years has been to prioritise motorised traffic above other modes of travel (all those roundabouts being a clear example of such policies in action).

However, is it possible that even Galway City Council could occasionally make the right decision, albeit for the wrong reasons?

The new traffic signals and associated centralised control centre are clearly being installed because there is money available for such traffic management and because policies to date have led to intolerable traffic congestion. The primary motivation for the new plans is therefore to make conditions better for motorists. But if in the process things are improved for cyclists, pedestrians and bus users also, shouldn't that be given at least a cautious welcome?

The mere fact that car drivers, as well as those who see lots of cars moving as a good thing, are weeping and gnashing about the removal of roundabouts suggests that they have had it all their own way for too long.

The writing is on the wall now, IMO. The NRA is now emphasising traffic management over infrastructure expansion, and it seems there will be money available for such measures (which is probably the main driver of the Council's plans, rather than any change of heart).

The Council and various interests that have favoured car use up to now must also know in their heart and soul that the game is up, even if they won't admit it. The holy grail of Galway City traffic -- the outer bypass -- is simply not going to be a reality for several years yet. No other solutions/remedial measures have been proposed other than than Smarter Travel, which appears to be still in limbo while Galway commuters remain in purgatory, or hell, depending on their circumstances.

The frantic attempts to hold on to the roundabouts, and offers to modify them with measures that roundabout lovers never bothered to advocate before, suggests little more than desperation, IMO.

muppetkiller

ciotog wrote: »

I've found the one under the Briarhill roundabout has more people drinking there earlier in the evening lately. It's unlit and I am sometimes a bit nervous about it. There are ways to address the perception of safety but it also wouldn't hurt to have some gardai pass through there at some points of an evening.

Totally agree Ciotog, I used to cycle through it and got many punctures from all the Broken bottles there too. The worse the weather gets you'll find them sheltering in there more often.