*** PLEASE READ - We want your input. (finished)

Hobbes

Hi,

The mods have had a discussion, and we would like to get your input as to what you want from this forum.

Please note the following when answering the question.

- Other peoples posts are not to be debated on this thread. We just want the two questions answered. Such posts will be deleted.

- Your input will be weighted against your current input/history with the forum. So if you have never posted in this forum, nor plan to, then posting suggestions may be weighted lower versus forum regulars.

We will leave the thread for a week to see what kind of input we get back.



So two simple questions are:
1. Are you a Muslim (Yes/No).

2. What do you want to get out of this forum. (Including forum charter, or current issues you have with the forum)

Jaafa

1. Yes

2. Just want a place to talk to other Muslims and discuss matters relating to Islam. Really get sick of debating with other people on the same topics over and over, however am open to honest questions about Islam being posted.

hivizman

(1) I am not a Muslim.

(2) I look on the forum as a place where I can learn more about Islam, whether that's from Muslims or non-Muslims.

As one of the moderators, I've grown rather bored with the way that recurrent issues, which are often quite complex, get raised in a simplistic manner.

irishconvert

1) Yes

2) A place to discuss Islam with Irish Muslims. Also open to answering questions from interested non-Muslims and dispelling some of the myths about Islam. Feel the forum is being dominated by non-Muslim posters who are only interested in corforming their athiest (or other) beliefs and not really here to learn about Islam.

vHOST

1. Yes
2. learn about Islam, and get answer to those questions asked to me by some non-Muslims.

wes

1. Yes
2. Not too sure to be honest. I guess discuss Islam with anyone, and not have anyone get to hostile to one another, as can happen.

dead one

Hobbes wrote: »

2. What do you want to get out of this forum. (Including forum charter, or current issues you have with the forum)

Honestly, i want you to get out of this foram ----
There are two moderators
1. Irish convert
2. Hizvman
I don't have any problems with moderation of these two good people, they are good people even hizvman is non muslim (i like his way of moderation) -- I can only suggest two things, either you can become like hizvman or Irish convert or you can destroy image of islam by keeping the same view of moderation ---
and there is another suggestion, lift cruel doctrine of banning, don't ban people because there is no factor of force in Islam --- even you have no right to ban someone who is abusive to islam -- Let people discuss whatever they want about Islam--- Don't close topics
After reading this post--- You have right to delete this post, you have right to warn / ban me but you have no right to judge me --

Hobbes

I'll let the post stand, don't worry. After all, we want your opinion. Of course if you have issues with a ban you received can use the Dispute resolution forum instead.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1397

Further responses on this should not be discussed here. Thanks.

Mark Hamill

1) I'm not a muslim.

2) This should be a place where anyone can discuss Islam, regardless of point of view on it, as long as they keep it civil and sensible. This forum should not turn into a meeting place for muslims, where non muslims are only barely tolerated if they dont ask questions that some muslims dont like. Its called the "Islam forum", not the "Muslims forum".

Penn

1) No

2) This is the Islam forum, which means naturally, the majority of posters would be interested in Islam, whether because they are Muslim themselves or just interested in it. But so long as people remain respectful and wish to discuss issues rather than trolling, there should be no viewpoints which are out of bounds. People should be able to disagree with some aspects of Islam so long as they discuss it civilly and respectfully, and without using sweeping generalisations and stereotypes. I'm not saying the forum should be overrun with these types of threads as I'm sure there are only a few topics "outsiders" would be interested in discussing, but this is a discussion forum, and both sides of the discussion should be fully allowed so long as everyone treats each other's opinions and their right to hold such beliefs with respect

Mr. CooL ICE

1) Not a muslim

2) To be honest, not much. I only started posting back when I knew very little as I like educating myself on random things I don't know much about. Since then, through this forum and articles, I know much more than I knew a few years ago so am nothing more than an occasional lurker at this stage.

robindch

1) No.

2) I don't really visit here on account of previous forum polices and I'm not fully sure if I'd post here much if they changed. However, I'm with some of the others above and believe that the forum should be open to orderly criticism of the religion as well as praise of it.

If posters wish to discuss the religion without input from non-coreligionists, then I suggest adopting something a bit like a policy from the christianity forum in which some key phrase ("[Muslims only]"?) in the thread title would indicate that only coreligionists should post there, with the mod deleting anything, regardless of how innocuous, from non-coreligionists. This way, all forms of discussion can be supported in I think the simplest way possible.

Mark Hamill

This conversation killer needs to stop entirely:

Hobbes wrote: »

please remember, you ask genuine questions about the Islam religion, [the Islamic forum] is not a place for people to have to defend their faith from attack. So if you don't agree with the response, leave it at that.

This is a discussion forum, so if you post on here, you must expect people to take you up on what you post. Now if someone is being abrasive or rude in what they ask, then you can moderate against that, but too many times this reaction comes out to honest questions that some posters here cant or don't like to answer, so they declare it as an attack. This is disingenuous to the purpose of the forum, insulting to the poster asking the question and, frankly, only reasserts both the notion that Islam and muslims cant handle difficult questions and the notion that whatever the question is asking is actually true.

Mark Hamill

1 no
2 i find it interesting in general and like to discuss it. What I don't like is how heavy handed and extreme the mods can be in the forum. Threads get locked where perhaps renaming the title would suffice. "You're not allowed to disagree at all, ever" is also definitely overkill I think. I have said elsewhere that I understand needing a place where you are able to chat without attack, and that's fine, but what is perceived as "attack" sometimes by the mods in here would be regarded by absolutely anyone else as straightforward discussion.
People coming in and ranting about religion being stupid - fine, kick that out. Ranting about islam and general insults, fine too. But there's far too much else going on.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

This conversation killer needs to stop entirely:



This is a discussion forum, so if you post on here, you must expect people to take you up on what you post. Now if someone is being abrasive or rude in what they ask, then you can moderate against that, but too many times this reaction comes out to honest questions that some posters here cant or don't like to answer, so they declare it as an attack. This is disingenuous to the purpose of the forum, insulting to the poster asking the question and, frankly, only reasserts both the notion that Islam and muslims cant handle difficult questions and the notion that whatever the question is asking is actually true.

Couldn't agree more. In many cases it is not doing the original poster any favours as it implies they're just not able to continue a conversation when asked a question.

dashboard_hula

1. Not a Muslim

2. I would love to be able to use this forum to discuss Islamic issues however I rarely if ever do because the fear of God (no pun intended) has been put into me with the moderating style and I'm genuinely wary of saying anything in case I stick my foot in it. This has been borne out by the reactions on the Feedback thread. I am many things, but a troll and a blinkered poster is not one of them and that's how I was made to feel on that thread.
I understand that Muslims in this forum should not have to feel like they need to defend their beliefs, but to be fair, there are lots of ways of avoiding that. The Christianity forum has managed to weather onslaught from controversial issues and still remain a forum where Christians feel comfortable in discussing anything they wish to (I'm not Christian either btw). I don't see why the Muslim forum can't open up to a bit more energetic debate and discussion. Fair enough, sometimes some plonker is going to come on and say something ridiculously stupid, but there's a lot of seasoned intelligent posters here who are well able to deal with them.


I started taking Arabic lessons recently. Naturally some of these discussions during my classes end up discussing the Quran, culture in Islamic countries, the correct and proper way to speak to people, how to show respect and deference towards men and women etc. This is fascinating to me and I would really love to be able to discuss and contribute here, but I genuinely feel like any simple or seemingly obvious question might not be received well if mods/posters are constantly on the watch out for attackers and trolls.

Thanks for the thread btw, appreciate the opportunity.

Brown Bomber

1. Not a Muslim

2. I think it would be the death of your forum if you changed the rules. I understand that there are some who want to genuinely explore Islam with Muslims in a sincere way but there would be too many others who would poison the well and every second thread would be a) Take a look at this stoning vid Muslims b) Muslims are suicide bombers c) Muslims don't integrate d) Muhammad was a paedofile and whatever else is on the BNP's breaking news feed

It is all too easy to attack a defenseless minority but also here and what you'll end up with is no Muslims left and the Muslim forum will develop into an EDL-like anti-Muslim echo-chamber.

There are many places to discuss/attack Islam on boards.ie off the top of my head humanities, atheism and afterhours. I don't understand why people want to kick in your front door and insult you in your own living room.

Should you ever try to defend your belieffs of course you'll get the usual response of "you would say that because you are a Muslim"

I think three different people said this to me in this thread on "Islam a religion of peace" in the atheism forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056356450

That thread is actually a good example of what to expect if you open the floodgates. Some reasonable criticism of Islam IMO but more ignorance and anti-Muslim vitriol. Such as Muslims are more likely to rape than I a white man is and so on.

Also in that thread you'll see posts by Dlofnep (or something) apparently a staunch republican. How a republican has the kneck to criticise any group over violence I'll never know but in it he goes down the usual Islam = violence route. At one point he even quotes the Quran out of the context to try to prove a point.

Obviously he has never read the Quran but he has got out of context quote from some anti-Islamic hate site.

If I am not mistaken it was him who started off this issue with a feedback thread with "why can't I have a reasonable conversation with Muslims in the Islam forum?" thread"

IMO he has no interest in having any reasonable conversation with Muslims.

The main problem is that Islamaphobia is socially acceptable. So should what is acceptable in the street be allowed here even if it inherently wrong?

I don't think so, the Islamaphobia industry is multi-million dollar industry which studies have shown have seen Muslims (or other brown people) being attacked in the street.

Brown Bomber

Sorry just to add:

If the issue is non-Muslims engaging Muslims in debate then why not have a sticky in this forum where non-Muslims can place links on Islam/Muslims threads they have started elsewhere on the forum and the link can be an invitation for Muslims to engage should they wish to rather than forcing it down their throats here with a put or shut up attitude.

Hobbes

I unstuck the thread. However I am leaving unlocked for the moment in case other want to add. Please read the request in the first post. Thanks.

Bevvie

1. yes

2. I think a few things needed to be changed, the moderation seems a bit heavy-handed at times. To use an example Freiheit got banned by mentioning moderation whereas in other forums would get a warning.

I think discussion and criticism of Islam should be allowed however should it descend into questioning people's actions like what happened with a thread about me, bashing someones beliefs(There is a huge difference between criticism of Islam and bashing beliefs) or people basically saying "you're wrong for your decision" without any proof THEN give them a warning / ban them.

I converted to Islam recently, I have no problem discussing why I converted or why I believe in Islam thoroughly in a PM.

Micky Dolenz

1) No

2) I have only ever lurked, trying to broaden my knowledge base. Not the most welcoming place for new comers. Fair criticism should be debated and rebuked where necessary. A discussion forum where discussion is stifled, will breed resentment.

philologos

Hobbes wrote: »

So two simple questions are:
1. Are you a Muslim (Yes/No).

2. What do you want to get out of this forum. (Including forum charter, or current issues you have with the forum)

1. No, I'm a Christian.

2. I think that I would want to discuss some of the essential claims of Islam, engage in a bit of light debate about the differences between Islam and other faiths, and to engage in a bit of discussion about the current state of Islam in the world.

Personally, I think the moderation on this forum has been firm and fair and I would support the moderators and congratulate them for their work thus far.

donaghs

(1) I am not a Muslim.

(2) I look on the forum as a place where I can learn more about Islam, whether that's from Muslims or non-Muslims.

I also think it should a forum where aspects of Islam can be debated. I think too much fair and sensible discussion has been blocked by heavy-handed moderation. I can partly understand why this is though, as this forum can attract plenty of nutters, and trolls, etc. As long as dicussion is calm and not hateful, I think the guiding principle should be more on free debate than strict religious dogma.

Oranage2

1) Not a Muslim and I disagree with a lot of Islamic culture.


2) I've come here for the entertainment of recent events:

- An online invasion of the After hour big guns on the Islam Forum that are now pretending to have an 'interest' in Islam and telling the Islam forum how things should be run

- The potrayal of the Islam Mod as some sort of heavy handed dictator that runs the forum like fundamental regime

- The now occupation of the Islam forum on every thread by AH + other forums posters/mods

- All the outside posters trying to extract cheap 'thanks'


I cant wait to see what happens next? Maybe a mod being made a matyr? Maybe the Islam posters attacking the AH forum?

I just wish things like this happened in the real world!

DrumSteve

1) Non - religious

2) Less of the heavy handed moderation in places as it does stifle debate. No one wants to see people come on and be abusive but if it is a discussion forum, all points of views should be acceptable to debate... not just views acceptable to Islam.

Jaafa

If I may just touch on what BrownBomber was saying because I feel he kind of better expresses what I was trying to say in my earlier post.

I do feel that any let up in the moderation of this forum will result in many endless, off the point threads in which the same misinformed points will be pressed over and over. Certainly if you follow this forum you will have seen the beginnings of such threads before they were cut down.

That said it is just a feeling I have based only on my experience. As such I think a good compromise may be to reduce the level of moderation in the forum for a trial period (2-4 weeks?) and see what happens. After which if everything works out ok and only 1 or 2 'bad' threads show up then the moderation can be changed in a more permanent manner.

Wolfe Tone

Im not a muslim.


I lurk a lot and I find it very interesting. I want the forum to be a place were muslims can talk and discuss aspects of their faith without having to defend it all the time. If the forum was a free for all the small number of muslims and those with genuine inquiries would be driven out and outnumbered by those with an anti Islam/religion agenda. It shouldnt be a forum to have a go at Islam.