Legacy - it's been Toyotafied and de-Subaruised!!

pburns

What do people think of these - the new model Legacy? Are they fugly?

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201024198432877

This one has a good spec but 40k:eek:!! Spectacularly bad value given what else is available...

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201117202178764

As some here might know, I have the older version from 08. Really like it - engine is unbelievably smooth, great to drive with few dislikes. But I'd like to have something to trade up to within the next while and I can't get my head around these!

It's much taller and bigger than before, totally different environment. Wheelarches are huge - need 18'' option to look any way OK IMO. The interior seems very American to me and available specs aren't great (esp for the saloon). I've only driven one briefly and apart from the engine there's v little continuity from previous generations.

It's such a shame. There may be a few more powerful 2.0 diesels these days but none I've come across are as good for petrol like refinement and behavior and it offers (or used to) something different in this sector...

dr.fuzzenstein

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201117202178764
That one looks like an Avensis.

-Corkie-

Interiors make the Carina E intresting...

squod

First one looks like a poxy lexus. Which is a shame. the Toyota/Subaru FT-86 looks so good.

dr.fuzzenstein

-Corkie- wrote: »

Interiors make the Carina E intresting...

Even I can't come up with a better insult!:D

mickdw

I think that sport version is shocking looking although I think the other one is a reasonable looking car.

spank_inferno

indeed, kinda Camry-like

I Was VB

-Corkie- wrote: »

Interiors make the Carina E intresting...

Reported!!!

:mad:

-Corkie-

I Was VB wrote: »

Reported!!!

:mad:

LOL....:D:D.

It looks awful to he honest, can't see many parting with the cash for one, not that many ever did part with money for a Legacy but at least before they got a decent looking car.

Anan1

I thought the whole point of a Subaru is that you buy what you need and keep it forever? Like a puppy, it's not just for Christmas.:)

pburns

The current Avensis is actually not so bad - for a Toyota! More cohesive design than the Leggie I'd say. (*Think I need to go wash my mouth with some Listerine after saying that*:o)

Makes me kinda angry they messed with the Legacy so much - there were clear design cues from the very first version back in '89 that carried through the different models. They weren't beautiful but were reasonably handsome and a bit different. They threw all that out the window for the 4th generation...

L-M

Anan1 wrote: »

I thought the whole point of a Subaru is that you buy what you need and keep it forever? Like a puppy, it's not just for Christmas.:)

And pisses on the floor, costs a fortune to bring to the vets and eats your couch?

The new Lagacy is horrid, if they replaced it in a years time with the old model I wouldn't complain.

Anan1

Limerick man wrote: »

And pisses on the floor, costs a fortune to bring to the vets and eats your couch?

The new Lagacy is horrid, if they replaced it in a years time with the old model I wouldn't complain.

The OP has the old model, and is happy with it. I'm asking why would they want to change.;)

L-M

Anan1 wrote: »

The OP has the old model, and is happy with it. I'm asking why would they want to change.;)

Long night last night, awful lazy, I didn't even read the OP's post :P

245

There's no doubt that the new Legacy is overpriced and a design disappointment. The interior has a cheaper feel too. Its not a bad drive though - a little softer than the previous generation.

So what alternatives are you considering? The Honda Accord i-DTEC is considerably cheaper and has similar equipment levels and engine output....

Anan1

245 wrote: »

There's no doubt that the new Legacy is overpriced and a design disappointment. The interior has a cheaper feel too. Its not a bad drive though - a little softer than the previous generation.

So what alternatives are you considering? The Honda Accord i-DTEC is considerably cheaper and has similar equipment levels and engine output....

No AWD, though.

245

Anan1 wrote: »

No AWD, though.

Is it worth the 5k ish difference? I like the AWD and got the benefit from it over the last two winters but the money difference would buy a lot of snow tyres and pay for a few holidays too

Subaru residuals aren't great either. The book value of a '08 Legacy saloon diesel is 15.5k against a new price of 36k.

TomMc

It's a sad state of affairs when some motor distributors no longer bring petrol cars into this country. Even 2.0L and 2.5L NA engined models with moderate (not 2K a year) road tax.

Anan1

245 wrote: »

Is it worth the 5k ish difference? I like the AWD and got the benefit from it over the last two winters but the money difference would buy a lot of snow tyres and pay for a few holidays too

Subaru residuals aren't great either. The book value of a '08 Legacy saloon diesel is 15.5k against a new price of 36k.

All reasons for the OP to keep what they have.;)

pburns

Anan1 wrote: »

All reasons for the OP to keep what they have.;)

Well I probably will keep it a while longer, maybe a year, but I don't intend holding onto it mega long term. I like to keep something fairly fresh as a daily driver - under 4 or 5 yrs old anyway.

You have the last of the old Foresters right? Similar position to what I described - the new Forester whilst not hideous has been turned into a regular high-riding SUV. In all the hoopla about crossovers the last couple of years nobody ever mentions that Subaru had one 15 years ago! Again, such a pity they didn't continue the theme and fit the diesel engine. That would have been a potent mix - desirable, practical, good to drive and economical.

BTW I see the new XV will be v similar dimensions to the old Forester...not sure a high-riding Impreza will be quite as cool though! - http://www.carshowp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2011-subaru-xv-concept-side-view.jpg

245 wrote: »

There's no doubt that the new Legacy is overpriced and a design disappointment. The interior has a cheaper feel too. Its not a bad drive though - a little softer than the previous generation.

So what alternatives are you considering? The Honda Accord i-DTEC is considerably cheaper and has similar equipment levels and engine output....

We've discussed this before;)...

I'm not in a huge rush to change honestly but I reckon I'll be getting itchy feet by next year. The Accord is OK but...just a wee bit bland and I'm not crazy on the busy interior.

I'd probably consider an S60 - despite some reservations expressed before. I know fans of German cars (and that includes the Skoda crowd) will spit into their cornflakes but it's a wee bit different. 5 cylinder engine as well...I like the idea that you get an extra cylinder free:D!

unkel

TomMc wrote: »

It's a sad state of affairs when some motor distributors no longer bring petrol cars into this country. Even 2.0L and 2.5L NA engined models with moderate (not 2K a year) road tax.

It's reality. Subaru (like all other Japanese car manufacturers) are a bit backward and their current range of petrol engines are particulary dirty compared to European cars. In fairness to them they are realistic and they recognise that nobody is going to buy a slow small petrol engined car in Ireland and pay €1,050 or €2,100 motor tax on it. That's why they introduced a diesel engine for all their models in recent years and discontinued all of their petrol models

VolvoMan

pburns wrote: »

I'd probably consider an S60 - despite some reservations expressed before. I know fans of German cars (and that includes the Skoda crowd) will spit into their cornflakes but it's a wee bit different. 5 cylinder engine as well...I like the idea that you get an extra cylinder free:D!

That was actually what I was going to suggest to you, as you would seem to be the type of person who would buy one.

I don't know why Subaru didn't let the last generation Legacy run a little longer in production. Sales wise it was enjoying a bit of an Indian summer due to the launch of the Boxer diesel and it looked miles better than its replacement, both inside and out.

bazz26

I'd hate to be trying to make a living as a Subaru saleperson these days, they must be selling nothing. I've yet to see a current model Legacy on the road and they were launched almost 2 years ago.

TomMc

unkel wrote: »

It's reality. Subaru (like all other Japanese car manufacturers) are a bit backward and their current range of petrol engines are particulary dirty compared to European cars. In fairness to them they are realistic and they recognise that nobody is going to buy a slow small petrol engined car in Ireland and pay €1,050 or €2,100 motor tax on it. That's why they introduced a diesel engine for all their models in recent years and discontinued all of their petrol models

They sell the 2.5L in the UK and both the 2.0L and 2.5L in Germany and other parts of Europe. The Lineartronic (CVT) ones have a CO2 rating of 185g = EUR630 road tax. The manuals are 198g so EUR1050. That's more or less the same as what motorists with 2.0L and 2.5L cars are paying under the old system. The same scenario applies with the Honda Accord's 2.0L and 2.4L petrol engines.

Not all of us lead our lives based on what other people do, get, say or think. If I'm paying 600 a year road tax at present, I'm still prepared to pay it in the future, even if others are getting off lightly (more upmarket diesel cars with lower road tax rates). As are many who pay a grand a year. Many of those who own petrol engined cars up to now are still prepared to pay a small premium in road tax and more in fuel costs (lower mpg) for more civilised transport or driving pleasure. Yes, motorists with older cars (or some newer petrol ones) are effectively now subsidising those with newer diesel ones and it isn't right but I'm not going to pander to conformity. The motoring public should have a choice not be dictated to what they can and cannot drive. It's getting like the old days with poverty spec cars, except now with engine choices. With some manufacturers it's a case of ... You can buy whatever type of new car you like, so long as its diesel. No thanks. Off to the UK I say and buy exactly what you want (nearly new or used), not what they want to sell you here. If they want your business, they should offer choice or face the consequences for their narrow-mindedness. We are not all sheeple.

L-M

bazz26 wrote: »

I'd hate to be trying to make a living as a Subaru saleperson these days, they must be selling nothing. I've yet to see a current model Legacy on the road and they were launched almost 2 years ago.

I think Subaru normally get coupled with other ****e Marques, I've never seen Subaru just by itself.

pburns

Limerick man wrote: »

I think Subaru normally get coupled with other ****e Marques, I've never seen Subaru just by itself.

Carroll & Roche are solely Subaru from their little showroom off the Naas road. Castle in Bray too AFAIK.

L-M

pburns wrote: »

Carroll & Roche are solely Subaru from their little showroom off the Naas road. Castle in Bray too AFAIK.

Jaysus! I've only every seen Subaru with Saab, Seat, that kinda thing. I can't imagine how they are making a living out of that.

TomMc

It's counter intuitive but the dealerships who are just Subaru dealers up to now (rather than multi-franchise) are the most successful. But then again that was then and this is now.

While governments ultimately call the shots, the new car motor trade (dealers and distributors, who are a very strong lobby group) were quite prepared to acquiesce to this race to the bottom because it panders to the lowest common denominator. Lower VRT and road taxes on mainstream (mass-market) diesel cars and scrappage schemes, increases their sales and profits (if run properly), but generally lowers the tone of the car market in Ireland.

So now we are left with a situaton where the rates of road tax are completely disproportionate to the incremental increase in Co2 emissions. Not unlike before with engine size (cc) but even more extreme and unjust. So much so it has all but destroyed the used car market in older vehicles. I'm all for eco-friendly initiatives and the polluter pays principle, but motorists should still have the choice. The carrot and stick approach should still show some sense of proportion, but no the establishment was to homogonise everyone.

TomMc

I see Subaru have decided to add the 2.0L petrol model to the range in the UK as well, not just the 2.5 as before. Except they do not bother with the saloon just the estate (tourer) version, which makes sense since it is the model most traditional Legacy owners prefer. Maybe Subaru in Ireland (and Honda with the Accord) will realise they'll lose more and more of their old customer base if they continue to offer no petrol option.

Anan1

TomMc wrote: »

I see Subaru have decided to add the 2.0L petrol model to the range in the UK as well, not just the 2.5 as before. Except they do not bother with the saloon just the estate (tourer) version, which makes sense since it is the model most traditional Legacy owners prefer. Maybe Subaru in Ireland (and Honda with the Accord) will realise they'll lose more and more of their old customer base if they continue to offer no petrol option.

Whatever about not having petrol, not having automatic is the kiss of death.

TomMc

Anan1 wrote: »

Whatever about not having petrol, not having automatic is the kiss of death.

True, but I still think having manual and auto petrol models (as they do in the UK) would be a step in the right direction. With the next focus on having an auto diesel at some point in the not too distant future. When Honda introduced their first diesel engine to the market (late in the day, Subaru even later), they were manual only. They have managed to put an autobox in the all new Accord diesel.

But if you think about it, look at all the Accords that sold as 1.8 and 2.0L petrols in Ireland down the years. They were very popular with aspirational types (senior reps or junior management), the unpretentious professional classes (and even car hire firms) who all wanted a reliable high quality car. When Honda brought out a diesel Accord they attracted new buyers to the marque. They now were a player in the mainstream and repmobile end of the market, but they had the good sense to keep petrol models available to suit their traditional buyers. But when they no longer have petrol models so widely available in Ireland these buyers are as or more likely to switch marque allegiances than fuels. Honda UK know better but Honda in Ireland (and Subaru) would seem to prefer to offer less model/fuel choice while keeping the list prices higher than they really ought to be.

Lex Luthor

PBURNS, i know how you feel. I honestly don't think i'll be looking at the new legacy when it comes around to changing mine.