Five arrests in 'slavery' raid at UK [travellers] site

charlemont

Latchy wrote: »

And in the back garden of merry ol England to ... I wonder what other horror mysterious are out there waiting to be liberated .

It was happening a lot closer to home too, Bud.

Big Nasty

pablomakaveli wrote: »

To be fair sarcasm doesnt always travel well in text form.

True, but in this case I thought it was blatantly obvious. I also commend the poster for not using the rolleyes to personify his point.

Latchy

charlemont wrote: »

It was happening a lot loser to home too, Bud.

Irelands own horror shows have being well documented for sure but as Biggins said ,we sometimes don't realise what's going on in our own back yards .Even when it's sometimes staring us in the face :pac:

Billy86

Biggins wrote: »

Please learn the difference between Roma and European traveling groups as such.

There is no difference. "Not us" = all the same, obviously!

This is absolutely appalling and not enough bad things can happen to the scumbags involved in this. There is literally nothing that can be done to them that will be too much punishment. Added to that, anywhere with even the slightest suspicion of something similar should be acted on ASAP in future in light of this. It is one of the most sickening things I have heard in a long, long time.

However, having said that...

Some people on here really should be ashamed of themselves. Jumping in and lumping all travellers as the same, hinting at this being the norm in the travelling community and attempting to pre-emptively exempt anybody from pointing out that this was FIVE INDIVIDUALS and not the entire travelling community as "traveller apologists" is outrageous.

Hey, surprise... they are Irish, according to the Irish Times. If this story went continental or even global, how would you like it if this were sold as "Irish holding slaves" or if other nations were to hold that against us as a whole? Does anybody have family living abroad? What if they were getting suspicious looks now because "those Irish... they love to travel to other countries and kidnap people into slavery"?

How many people here have seen rednecks in America labelling every black person they come across "a Muslim" and every 'Muslim' they come across as "a terrorist" (think Obama)? If you agree with them then that is your own problem, but if you disagree with them and jumping all over the entire travelling community for this, then you are a hypocrite and every bit as bad. No two ways about it.

Seriously, as a nation that gets stereotyped a lot, with a history of being discriminated and slurred against, that had to (and continues to) work hard to overcome that in recent decades, we really do have a lot of people amongst us who are no better at all. Probably worse, given that we know what it feels like.

Ok, now that that's done, who's going to be the first to try labelling me as a "traveller apologist" (or some other, less 'PC', term)?

hondasam

hondasam wrote: »

It is unbelievable to think it's going on for 15yrs. There has to be more to the story.
I'm sure the media will make an Irish connection somewhere along the line.

It seem they are Irish travellers after all according to the media.

Fieldies Dreams

Travellers shouldnt be allowed keep dogs never mind slaves.

EggsAckley

Apparantly the accused replied when asked had they force unpaid labourers to work up to fifteen hours a day resurfacing and tarmacing "It's not asphalt"

CorkMan

It just shows the little, if any, moral values that is held by the vast majority of itinerants.

Executive Steve

Glad to see the cracks starting to appear in the government's new Job Bridge scheme.

Lando Griffin

EggsAckley wrote: »

Apparantly the accused replied when asked had they force unpaid labourers to work up to fifteen hours a day resurfacing and tarmacing "It's not asphalt"

15 years of tarmacing and there only resurfacing now.

Dyr

Does this not count as a crime against humanity or some such? like off to the hague with them to be strung up type job?

bernardo mac

This news report should prompt authorities here to investigate similar operations here where the labour employed is not just "family".Lots of shrewd lads are involved in tarmacadam,landscaping,scrap,site clearance,insulation etc.Of course much of it may be quite legitimate and a useful service but it would be hoped that the employed,sometimes of foreign origin are insured and receiving, at least, the legal minimum wage

SEPT 23 1989

Would not expect any less

Gummy Panda

Fieldies Dreams wrote: »

Travellers shouldnt be allowed keep dogs never mind slaves.

But they like dags

Dyr

Gummy Panda wrote: »

But they like dags

Priests like kids, they still shouldn't be let within an asses roar of them

MajorMax

If anyone thinks this is an isolates incident they are very naive. I guarantee this is going on at other traveller sites in the UK and in Ireland.

Now that the heat is on and the coppers will be checking other sites there will be a lot of poor feckers getting their throats cut and dumped in unmarked graves

montec

Hats off then to everyone who voted for the knacker king on Celebrity BB.

charlemont

I explained in a previous thread about my fathers house been robbed by travellers, It was done in spite as I helped a guy get away from them, He was in fear so we got him out of Clonmel in the cab of a truck, These clowns even offered me money to say where he was but no can do, Id never sell out a friend, They robbed my house but I got them back where it hurts.

Billy86

Montec, what does your bigotry have to do with any of this?

Billy86

charlemont wrote: »

I explained in a previous thread about my fathers house been robbed by travellers, It was done in spite as I helped a guy get away from them, He was in fear so we got him out of Clonmel in the cab of a truck, These clowns even offered me money to say where he was but no can do, Id never sell out a friend, They robbed my house but I got them back where it hurts.

...and this has, what to do with this disgusting slavery incident exactly?

Dyr

charlemont wrote: »

These clowns even offered me money to say

Traaveller clowns? Thats the stuff of nightmares :eek:

the_syco

"But in fact some people did leave and told us what was going on and when we looked back since 2008 we were aware of 28 people who had made similar accusations."

And yet the cops seemed to just leave them there. I know the English police have a bit of a bad rep, but this takes the biscuit!

Biggins wrote: »

Pavee Point ?

A group that represents travellers. If they trespassed onto your land, Pavee Point would say it's their culture. Same is said when they break most of the laws...

Billy86 wrote: »

...and this has, what to do with this disgusting slavery incident exactly?

That they hunt anyone down who escapes, and f**ks with anyone who helps the escapees?

=-=

Most people in AH know what I think of the travellers. Apart from one group of 5 people that actually travelled, every other "traveller" that I have personally come across never travelled, and deserved to be shipped to a small uninhabited island and left to fend for themselves. The people in Pavee Point should be housed in a small building in the middle of a halting site. It'd be... interesting...

Billy86

Apologies charlemont, I misread your initial post - the one before just set me off a bit. Apologies again, and fair play to you for doing what you did, must have taken some balls!

EDIT:
Seriously though, what you wrote below that is appalling though. I can understand you have had particularly bad run-ins with them, but to tar every traveller with the same brush like that is just not on, and will do nothing towards fixing any issues. Also, if I am right on this it is basically impossible for travellers to travel these days due to recent legislature.

Those who give the travelling community a bad name should in my opinion should be dealt with very, very harshly such is the severity of circumstances that we have come to. But I have dealt with a good number of travellers in my time, and I would wager upwards of 80% of them were perfectly nice and friendly people, and were willing to help me out in isntances where I helped them out also. Which is more than I can say for a good few in the settled còmmunity.

markesmith

We're all biting our tongues and keeping our powder dry here. This is an atrocious story, and is real fuel for the anti-Traveller brigade. If this is widespread, then it certainly needs to be investigated, and not just in the UK but over here as well.

Elmidena

Gypsie refers to when the itinerants were known for being foreign (from Egyptian)
Tinkers refers to when they were known for being a dab hand at crafting/repairing pots&pans etc.
The K-word refers to when they were known for being where to send your exhausted farm animals for meat and glue.
Travellers refers to when they were known for travelling.

Just because they don't do it so much anymore doesn't stop people using the previous terms to describe them. The slavery is appalling, but I find people's attitudes in here to be worse to a degree. Whatever the current PC term for them are, they're still humans. They're still good people, or bad people. Yeah they had a group of slaves, but a lot of "normal" people have been found guilty of imprisonment or worse over the last number of years. Culture has nothing to do with it. These people are just bad; travellers as a whole are not.

smash

Twenty-four men suspected of being held against their will have been found during a raid at a travellers' site.
...
but they were told they could not leave and if they did they would be beaten up and attacked.

You'd think 24 men would say "fcuk this" and fight back.

who the fug

Billy86 wrote: »

Apologies charlemont, I misread your initial post - the one before just set me off a bit. Apologies again, and fair play to you for doing what you did, must have taken some balls!

EDIT:
Seriously though, what you wrote below that is appalling though. I can understand you have had particularly bad run-ins with them, but to tar every traveller with the same brush like that is just not on, and will do nothing towards fixing any issues. Also, if I am right on this it is basically impossible for travellers to travel these days due to recent legislature.

Those who give the travelling community a bad name should in my opinion should be dealt with very, very harshly such is the severity of circumstances that we have come to. But I have dealt with a good number of travellers in my time, and I would wager upwards of 80% of them were perfectly nice and friendly people, and were willing to help me out in isntances where I helped them out also. Which is more than I can say for a good few in the settled còmmunity.

Would they have reported these travellers to the cops

ejmaztec

smash wrote: »

You'd think 24 men would say "fcuk this" and fight back.

Not when there are more people keeping tabs on them with guns.:eek:

LordSutch

hondasam wrote: »

I'm sure the media will make an Irish connection somewhere along the line.

I'd be amazed if there wasn't an Irish connection.

bernardo mac

LordSutch wrote: »

I'd be amazed if there wasn't an Irish connection.

Indeed,and amazing the number of UK registered top-of-the-range 4 wheel drives etc.that regularly visit here for funerals,weddings....

Billy86

Sunshine! wrote: »

Just because they don't do it so much anymore doesn't stop people using the previous terms to describe them. The slavery is appalling, but I find people's attitudes in here to be worse to a degree. Whatever the current PC term for them are, they're still humans. They're still good people, or bad people. Yeah they had a group of slaves, but a lot of "normal" people have been found guilty of imprisonment or worse over the last number of years. Culture has nothing to do with it. These people are just bad; travellers as a whole are not.

Exactly... where was the moral outrage against all of Austria, and calls for all of Austria to be imprisoned or simply exterminated over what Fritzl did? Because this is a very, very similar scenario.

Or Americans for that matter, as with Jaycee Lee Duggard? I assume those calling for action against all travellers, expect similar actions to be taken against all Americans (or at least Texans) and all Austrians also, yes?

who the fug wrote: »

Would they have reported these travellers to the cops

Who am I, and who are you, to say? I can tell you that when I was working in a Statoil/Topaz right after the economy (and thus my job in sales) went splat, that we did have a case where five families from a settled community down the road marched down a traveller in his late-teens down to the shop, because he had done a drive-off worth over €50 in a white van. Nearly all of our issues with theft occurred when the local secondary schools were on lunch, and from local (settled) teenagers in general. So you can use that as an indicator, if you want one.

The likely reason they did that being that we were always good to them (didn't hawk over them when they were in the shop, gave them the sandwiches/muffins/donuts/etc at the end of the day rather than throwing them in the bin, small stuff like that). My manager once even kicked a particularly snooty, middle-aged, quite posh woman out of the shop for being abusive towards three girls (about 7-8 years old) for no reason, who were just hanging about waiting for their mam to pick them up from the school they went to across the road.

Obviously you don't get that with every settled community, but you also don't get every settled community being treated equally as people, either. Like I said in an earlier post, and of course this doesn't count for every traveller and is something to be cautious about, and we were to an extent 'lucky' with the travellers in the settled community near us, but if you help them out, they may well help you out in return. It was very useful too, because they would always let us know if a 'bad family' were visiting or passing through (such as the one who did the drive-off above).

It's all about getting to know them in situations like that, and knowing who top trust and who to watch out for. You know, like people do with people in general - judging them for who they are and not what they are.

charlemont

Bambi wrote: »

Traaveller clowns? Thats the stuff of nightmares :eek:

Ha, The man involved looks like Dastardly from the cartoon.

Paparazzo

Queen-Mise wrote: »

I hope to fcuk there is no Irish connection. That is a vile nasty thing to do or be involved in (slavery that is).


http://paveepoint.ie/

Interesting that their site is in solidarity with the travellers illegally settled on the Dale Farm site but there's not a mention of this.

Ken.

But in fact some people did leave and told us what was going on and when we looked back since 2008 we were aware of 28 people who had made similar accusations."

Taken from the news story in the op. Why did it take 3 years to actually do something about it?.

charlemont

Billy86 wrote: »

Apologies charlemont, I misread your initial post - the one before just set me off a bit. Apologies again, and fair play to you for doing what you did, must have taken some balls!

I got friendly with the bloke as he stayed in as caravan very close to my family home, Sound bloke, I'd describe him as an English ragamuffin if that's the correct word, Like a gypsy out of a Famous Five book, Lovable rogue, He had nothing the poor chap, He was terrified of the family although this family are tough but not the worse, most of them are settled and well known in Clonmel, They have money too but they didn't get rich by being generous, He had enough of it and his girlfriends dad got him a lift out of town in a truck bound for England.

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

Exactly... where was the moral outrage against all of Austria, and calls for all of Austria to be imprisoned or simply exterminated over what Fritzl did? Because this is a very, very similar scenario. Or Americans for that matter, as with Jaycee Lee Duggard? I assume those calling for action against all travellers, expect similar actions to be taken against all Americans (or at least Texans) and all Austrians also, yes?

Ahm, no? I fail to see the connection as both were sex crimes committed by rapists.

What we are talking about here are abductions and incarcerations for financial gain, committed by a group of people, not individuals.

Captain Darling

4leto wrote: »

Slavery is alive and well in this 21st century and it is not only the traveller community engaged in it. Probably more now then there has ever been, numbers wise.

Its called indentured service now, just a modern term the same thing.

We're all a slave to fcuking banks now anyways. Every tax payer in the country is getting fcuking screwed. And its refreshing to know, thats the way we'll be for the rest of our lives. Modern day fcuking feudalism!

Whats going on with those travellers harkens back to times in the not too distant past and is something that i wouldnt believe is widespread within that community.

thegreengoblin

Should be interesting to hear Pavee Point's views on this story. Of course, they should totally and unreservedly condemn these kind of actions and be appalled by the story, like everyone else...

Palmach

Sunshine! wrote: »

The slavery is appalling, but I find people's attitudes in here to be worse to a degree. Whatever the current PC term for them are, they're still humans. .

Right people's atitude is worse than slavery? And the slavers are still human beings? These people are lowlifes of the worst sort and I am sorry to say it typifies the Tinker attitude to law and order. Laws are for others and if you apply it us we'll call you racist. If you coddle a group and teach them that wahtever happens it is not their fault then morality goes out the window.

Billy86

EGAR wrote: »

Ahm, no? I fail to see the connection as both were sex crimes committed by rapists.

What we are talking about here are abductions and incarcerations for financial gain, committed by a group of people, not individuals.

The connection should be obvious, and it them I am drawing the connection to, but rather us and how quite a few are labelling the whole for the appalling misdeeds of the very few in this situation. Surely then this standard should apply across the board, otherwise it is just blatant discrimination and jumping at any opportunity to demonise an entire community.

Again to re-iterate, I would have no issues with those who did this (and others who may also be doing it) being strung up to a tree in the middle of the Sahara/Arizona/Australian/whichever really hot desert to die a slow a painful death.

lucyfu09, apparently it had something to do with legal red tape that they only got lifted recently (June, I think?) so hopefully we see a lot of raids on others suspected of doing the same.

Billy86

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Should be interesting to hear Pavee Point's views on this story. Of course, they should totally and unreservedly condemn these kind of actions and be appalled by the story, like everyone else...

If they have any sense, or even any concept of PR/political nuance that is exactly what they will do. Otherwise, they are condemning themselves to a long, long bout of deserved public ridicule, and will lose any creidbility (and likely with it, sway) that they may hold at present.

Billy86

Palmach wrote: »

Right people's atitude is worse than slavery? And the slavers are still human beings? These people are lowlifes of the worst sort and I am sorry to say it typifies the Tinker attitude to law and order. Laws are for others and if you apply it us we'll call you racist. If you coddle a group and teach them that wahtever happens it is not their fault then morality goes out the window.

I think (at least hope) the guy you quoted was referring to the overall travelling community as 'still human beings' and not those who were involved in this. However, if you consider the travelling community within Ireland to be 'coddled' I really don't know what to say to you. They are essentially like our version of the Aborigines.

ejmaztec

Billy86 wrote: »

The connection should be obvious, and it them I am drawing the connection to, but rather us and how quite a few are labelling the whole for the appalling misdeeds of the very few in this situation. Surely then this standard should apply across the board, otherwise it is just blatant discrimination and jumping at any opportunity to demonise an entire community.

If there were a few million Fritzls involved, then it would probably be a reasonable comparison, but in the case of there being one Fritzl, it's blatantly obvious that it isn't a good comparison.

thegreengoblin

Sunshine! wrote: »

The slavery is appalling, but I find people's attitudes in here to be worse to a degree.

Do you have any idea just how ludicrous that statement is?

Billy86

ejmaztec wrote: »

If there were a few million Fritls involved, then it would probably be a reasonable comparison, but in the case of there being one Fritzl, it's blatantly obvious that it isn't a good comparison.

Thank you for proving my point. All we know is that there were five people involved, just as all we know with Fritzl is that there was one involved (or two with Duggard). The fact that you equate this to "millions" just says it all really, and completely backs up what I was getting at.

Mr. Presentable

Billy86 wrote: »

Thank you for proving my point. All we know is that there were five people involved, just as all we know with Fritzl is that there was one involved (or two with Duggard). The fact that you equate this to "millions" just says it all really, and completely backs up what I was getting at.

With all due respect, this had to be done with the cooperation of all the "travellers" on the site, not just the five arrested. Do we know how many?

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

Thank you for proving my point. All we know is that there were five people involved, just as all we know with Fritzl is that there was one involved (or two with Duggard). The fact that you equate this to "millions" just says it all really, and completely backs up what I was getting at.

One has nothing to do with the other, just because you are willing to be.

I am sure the peeps at Pavee Point will be at loss as to what to put up about it. I am awaiting a publication with baited breath :pac:.

Billy86

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

With all due respect, this had to be done with the cooperation of all the "travellers" on the site, not just the five arrested. Do we know how many?

That is something that is going to have to be looked at, but at present there have only been five arrested. We will find out in time if any others (and more likelym how many others) were involved, but we do not know that yet. For example, Fritzl's wife lived in the very same house that all that evil was going on in for 20+ years and did not know a thing about it, as per the law.

Billy86

EGAR wrote: »

One has nothing to do with the other, just because you are willing to be.

I am sure the peeps at Pavee Point will be at loss as to what to put up about it. I am awaiting a publication with baited breath :pac:.

My point is very simple: when Firtzl's case, or Duggard's, came up the neighbours were not seen as 'in on it' and the overall communities were not either. Even Fritzl's wife was not - her story of being oblivious to it was quite widely accepted from the get-go. So why is that different now that it is the travelling community?

The constant drooling over what Pavee Point will or will not say about this from some on here does point towards an agenda, as if you are just enjoying seeing the travelling community getting in trouble. At which point it would make sense that you would want to lump as many of them in on the blame as possible (like, as another poster said only a few minutes ago: "millions" of them).

vetstu

Travellers call for ethnic statusl

Old link but hopefully this gets through soon.
Then we can do some ethnic cleansing

mod: poster banned.