Five arrests in 'slavery' raid at UK [travellers] site

Billy86

vetstu wrote: »

Travellers call for ethnic statusl

Old link but hopefully this gets through soon.
Then we can do some ethnic cleansing

Well, at least you are open about being a bigot. I'll give you that.

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

My point is very simple: when Firtzl's case, or Duggard's, came up the neighbours were not seen as 'in on it' and the overall communities were not either. Even Fritzl's wife was not - her story of being oblivious to it was quite widely accepted from the get-go. So why is that different now that it is the travelling community?

The constant drooling over what Pavee Point will or will not say about this from some on here does point towards an agenda, as if you are just enjoying seeing the travelling community getting in trouble. At which point it would make sense that you would want to lump as many of them in on the blame as possible (like, as another poster said only a few minutes ago: "millions" of them).

Ahm, this was my very first reference to Pavee Point on boards.ie EVER, feel free to check all my comments since I joined .

I wont even bother to reply to the rest of your post, it is getting a bit tedious.

Elmidena

Palmach wrote: »

Right people's atitude is worse than slavery? And the slavers are still human beings? These people are lowlifes of the worst sort and I am sorry to say it typifies the Tinker attitude to law and order. Laws are for others and if you apply it us we'll call you racist. If you coddle a group and teach them that wahtever happens it is not their fault then morality goes out the window.

Please refer to my first post also instead of stealing a snippet. Some of these posters sound like they'd love a genocide....that IS worse than slavery

up for anything

This reminds me of when the settled Irish gleefully used the first wave of refugees and asylum seekers to do odd jobs around the house. People got their houses painted at a €15 day rate when it would have cost them at least €100 if they used Irish tradesmen and nearly sainted themselves for giving them an extra few bob to add to their refugee allowance. :rolleyes:

Then there were the Poles and others who were held over a barrel in labouring jobs. One lad I knew took a week off when his wife gave birth, didn't get paid for it and then was made work a week for nothing to pay his boss back for the loss of earnings on the week he took off. He was an intelligent, educated guy but he needed his job desperately to keep his wife and newborn. His boss was a young farmer's son of 27 who was also acting as a sub-contractor.

Then there were the pot-washers at a very expensive restaurant in town who were being paid €2 an hour.

It doesn't excuse any kind of slavery but it shows that were some in this country who wouldn't have been averse to it if they could get away with it. :mad:

Billy86

EGAR wrote: »

Ahm, this was my very first reference to Pavee Point on boards.ie EVER, feel free to check all my comments since I joined .

You are aware that other people are posting in this forum, right?

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

You are aware that other people are posting in this forum, right?

Yes, but you didn't quote them, you quoted me, right? Anyway, as I said: tedious.


The story has now made the Irish news, just heard it on the radio.

problemchimp

Dangerous Man wrote: »

Let's not jump the gun and get all racist here. These people are a different ethnic group than us settled folk and simply have different traditions within their own culture. It's selfish of us to expect them to live by our rules.

Over a lot of heads it would seem.

Billy86

"The constant drooling..." not "your constant drooling", and then I even cited a post from a different person in thar same paragraph. Reading comprehension is key.

Also, people do tend to find it tedious to have flaws picked in their logic, yes.

EDIT: Anyway, feck it. We're obviously not going to find any middle ground here.

EGAR

Billy darling, I have your semantics on *ignore* now so don't exert yourself on my behalf .

According to news all arrested are Irish. Lovely..

Billy86

Ahh, the good old "I've got nothing else to justify myself, so I'll try to get the last word in and run away" approach... nice!

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

Ahh, the good old "I've got nothing else to justify myself, so I'll try to get the last word in and run away" approach... nice!

No, it's the: *You can't argue with a fool approach* - hence my bowing out of any discussion with you . TTFN

I have no intention of quitting this thread, just the arguing with a fool. Meh.

Billy86

Some gobsh*** wife of somebody arrested with a ridiculous set of fake ones (wonder how she coudl afford them) on Sky News now, trying to deny it and claim discrimination, making a fool of herself. Not too surprising given how much of a lowlife you would have to be to do what they have been up to, hopefully she gets equal punishment to those arrested so far.

Billy86

Thought I was on your ignore list, EGAR?

EGAR

Let's get one thing absolutely clear about the "slaves" who have been discovered by police imprisoned at a traveller's site in Bedfordshire: we must not to be quick to judge.
Which of us can say, hand on heart, that we have not at some time in our lives felt the urge to kidnap one or two stray migrant workers or alcoholics, shave their heads, steal their mobile phones, keep them in a shed or a dog kennel at the bottom of our gardens and force them to perform menial tasks for starvation rations and no money, beating them if they fail to measure up or try to escape?
And even those of us who haven't actually acted on this urge ought surely to be aware that with certain "communities" special exceptions must be made.
For example, you or I might think it is a bit off, murdering your sister, daughter or niece for failing to marry her first cousin and running off with someone she loves instead; or to have your daughter circumcised so that she is unable to experience any filthy sexual pleasure in her marital relations. But what we must learn to understand is that different cultures have different traditions. We should understand honour killings and female circumcision as part of the melting pot of colourful cultural customs which have helped make modern Britain so vibrant and diverse.
And of course, we should extend similar tolerance and understanding to the free spirits of the traveller community, as they roam the land in search of new spots to concrete over and, of course, enhance with their charming, eccentric customs. As I'm sure UN ambassadress Vanessa Redgrave will be the first to point out when she appears on her inevitable visit to the Greenacre traveller site, it is WRONG, quite WRONG to condemn travellers for allegedly keeping slaves. After all, the Romans did it and we think they're civilised. And lots of US Southerners did it right up until the mid 1860s – and we think of them as gentlemen.
That's why we should congratulate the police for their sympathetic, softly softly approach to the problem. (If you think it is a problem, which probably makes you a racist, because as "travellers" they have racial status don't they? Check it out next time you have to fill in a census form). It seems they have been aware for quite some time of this quaint slavery custom:
Says the police officer in charge of the investigation:
"But in fact some people did leave and told us what was going on and when we looked back since 2008 we were aware of 28 people who had made similar accusations."
Indeed, detectives believe that some of the slaves may have been held captive for as long as 15 years.
Fair makes you proud to be British, doesn't it? What a marvellously tolerant nation we have become!

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100104361/traveller-slaves-vanessa-redgrave-can-surely-explain/

skylight1987

if i was to put into words what i think of travellers and how i would deal with them if i ruled the country, i would be banned from boards for good . so i will just keep it to myself

Latchy

Apparently the kidnapped in question were approached outside dole offices and offered jobs and accommodation ,then whisked off for their lifes of slavery .It's being known for some years now that east europeans girl are lured into a life of prostitution , others into forced labour in houses and restaurants but this is a new can of worms .

ejmaztec

Billy86 wrote: »

Thank you for proving my point. All we know is that there were five people involved, just as all we know with Fritzl is that there was one involved (or two with Duggard). The fact that you equate this to "millions" just says it all really, and completely backs up what I was getting at.

It doesn't back up anything that you say whatsoever, you're just clocking up the intentional mis-interpretations, post by post.

youtube!

This kind of thing is widespread, I know personally of a Czech lad who came to Ireland about a yr ago,he was married and simply wanted to earn enough money to pay off a debt for a car back home. he only planned on staying for a few mths or a yr at most.

He got a "job" with a well known circus (sayin no more than that) and was paid 100 euro a week for 7 days 16hrs a day. He was regularly beaten and told he could not leave. On one particular occasion he was told he had to drive the truck from one town to another while the bossman slept, he got lost and ended up in the wrong town,when the boss woke up to see where he had brought them to he pulled him out of the cab and 3 men kicked and punched him and beat him with sticks. He eventually managed to escape and stayed with a friend while he waited for a flight home, needless to say he wont be coming back to Ireland.

flutered

=-=

Most people in AH know what I think of the travellers. Apart from one group of 5 people that actually travelled, every other "traveller" that I have personally come across never travelled, and deserved to be shipped to a small uninhabited island and left to fend for themselves. The people in Pavee Point should be housed in a small building in the middle of a halting site. It'd be... interesting...[/QUOTE]
may i compliment you on the above quote, with the addition that they should be moved from site to site to experience how all the various familys live.

R P McMurphy

Latchy wrote: »

Apparently the kidnapped in question were approached outside dole offices and offered jobs and accommodation ,then whisked off for their lifes of slavery .It's being known for some years now that east europeans girl are lured into a life of prostitution , others into forced labour in houses and restaurants but this is a new can of worms .

It is a sickening thing to do to someone. I remember a case that was initially reported about a girl being held prisoner as a prostitute in Oldcastle in Meath but the story seemed to fade without a trace. There are plenty of people being held as slaves, seems to involve diplomatic staff quite a bit

Latchy

R P McMurphy wrote: »

It is a sickening thing to do to someone. I remember a case that was initially reported about a girl being held prisoner as a prostitute in Oldcastle in Meath but the story seemed to fade without a trace. There are plenty of people being held as slaves, seems to involve diplomatic staff quite a bit

Seems to be the diplomatic corp who are responsible for a lot of it in uk and I recall last news items I remember on this was about Nigerian official who kept a girl as a slave and other non EU diplomats wife who gave some girl a dogs life of slavery and abuse .

Mr. Presentable

Billy86 wrote: »

My point is very simple: when Firtzl's case, or Duggard's, came up the neighbours were not seen as 'in on it' and the overall communities were not either. Even Fritzl's wife was not - her story of being oblivious to it was quite widely accepted from the get-go. So why is that different now that it is the travelling community?

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot see how you draw a parallel between people kept hidden in a basement and never let out, and people used as work crews in public. It's simply not possible that the rest of the site were unaware.

R P McMurphy

Latchy wrote: »

Seems to be the diplomatic corp who are responsible for a lot of it in uk and I recall last news items I remember on this was about Nigerian official who kept a girl as a slave and other non EU diplomats wife who gave some girl a dogs life of slavery and abuse .

Yeah seems to be that way, also remember that pretty wealthy people from oil-rich countries appear to engage in this sort of practice as well. There was a nanny found tortured and murdered in London and it shone a spotlight on forced labour. I think the powers that the MET are using now in this case are a result of legislation brought in last year in relation to the cockle pickers that were killed a few years ago. The anti-slavery legislation does not take into account the new forms of slavery/forced labour that have evolved. I would say our government need to take a look at why the British government introduced it and introduce similar.

JP Liz V1

Shocking :eek:

ejmaztec

Latchy wrote: »

Seems to be the diplomatic corp who are responsible for a lot of it in uk and I recall last news items I remember on this was about Nigerian official who kept a girl as a slave and other non EU diplomats wife who gave some girl a dogs life of slavery and abuse .

Diplomats get away with an awful lot. I remember reading years ago that diplomats from the Nigerian Embassy had racked up the largest total of unpaid parking fines in London.

Azureus

I used to go on holidays to a caravan park called Greenacres in Wales...thought it was the same place there for a minute!

Mental story though-up to 15 years? Doesnt bear thinking about

Latchy

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Yeah seems to be that way, also remember that pretty wealthy people from oil-rich countries appear to engage in this sort of practice as well. There was a nanny found tortured and murdered in London and it shone a spotlight on forced labour. I think the powers that the MET are using now in this case are a result of legislation brought in last year in relation to the cockle pickers that were killed a few years ago. The anti-slavery legislation does not take into account the new forms of slavery/forced labour that have evolved. I would say our government need to take a look at why the British government introduced it and introduce similar.

ejmaztec wrote: »

Diplomats get away with an awful lot. I remember reading years ago that diplomats from the Nigerian Embassy had racked up the largest total of unpaid parking fines in London.

It's being well known for years now that many abuse their positions in every way simply because they can .

Dudess

Yeah I saw an investigative report programme about the brutality of domestic servitude in oil-rich countries, and which gets transported to major cities like London - ****ing hell, it was one of the most disturbing things ever...

LordSutch wrote: »

I'd be amazed if there wasn't an Irish connection.

Yes, those Irish - renowned for their enslaving ways...

Sunshine! wrote: »

Please refer to my first post also instead of stealing a snippet. Some of these posters sound like they'd love a genocide....that IS worse than slavery

I hate prejudice against all travellers because of the actions of particular ones, but people saying they want a cull (much of which is just keyboard warrior talk) is not worse than actually carrying out the acts of enslaving and brutalising.

up for anything wrote: »

This reminds me of when the settled Irish gleefully used the first wave of refugees and asylum seekers to do odd jobs around the house. People got their houses painted at a €15 day rate when it would have cost them at least €100 if they used Irish tradesmen and nearly sainted themselves for giving them an extra few bob to add to their refugee allowance. :rolleyes:

Then there were the Poles and others who were held over a barrel in labouring jobs. One lad I knew took a week off when his wife gave birth, didn't get paid for it and then was made work a week for nothing to pay his boss back for the loss of earnings on the week he took off. He was an intelligent, educated guy but he needed his job desperately to keep his wife and newborn. His boss was a young farmer's son of 27 who was also acting as a sub-contractor.

Then there were the pot-washers at a very expensive restaurant in town who were being paid €2 an hour.

It doesn't excuse any kind of slavery but it shows that were some in this country who wouldn't have been averse to it if they could get away with it. :mad:

As would a small number in any country. It's not an Irish thing, it's a ruthless, dishonest, exploitative low-life thing - available in all societies.

goat2

youtube! wrote: »

This kind of thing is widespread, I know personally of a Czech lad who came to Ireland about a yr ago,he was married and simply wanted to earn enough money to pay off a debt for a car back home. he only planned on staying for a few mths or a yr at most.

He got a "job" with a well known circus (sayin no more than that) and was paid 100 euro a week for 7 days 16hrs a day. He was regularly beaten and told he could not leave. On one particular occasion he was told he had to drive the truck from one town to another while the bossman slept, he got lost and ended up in the wrong town,when the boss woke up to see where he had brought them to he pulled him out of the cab and 3 men kicked and punched him and beat him with sticks. He eventually managed to escape and stayed with a friend while he waited for a flight home, needless to say he wont be coming back to Ireland.

did anyone report that abuse, and the circus he was working for, that is terrible, this man was assaulted, made a slave, and mentally abused, that will happen again by that same circus if they are not brought to the attention of gardai

Orizio

I can't say I'm surprised by this (admittedly horrific) self-fulfilling act of enslavement and chastisement considering the way settled Ireland has oppressed traveller Ireland for decades now.

gozunda

15 "slaves" out of 24 taken into protective custody other 9 dont wish to take part in investigation

Traveller spokeswoman claimed police action was "prejudice against the travelling community"

The site under investigation is a site for Irish Travellers....so it is prejudice (that old hoary chestnut) to accuse members of the travelling community of anything even slavery and even when caught red handed :mad::mad:

when will they stop kidding themselves and everyone else...

MungBean

I'd imagine this type of thing is widespread. Any cowboy who wants to try and exploit someone will try to withhold payment because of lodgings and food provided. Throw in some intimidation and threats of violence to persuade them not to leave and its basically slavery.

A lot of eastern Europeans were taken on in the fishing industry over the last few years. Some given a smaller share because they lodged on the boats. Who's to say the skipper didnt threaten to throw them over board if they didnt do what they were told and then continually told them that will be paid next week?

Person cant/dont want to leave without being paid, cant speak up because of the threats and essentially becomes a slave.

Maruney

Sunshine! wrote: »

Gypsie refers to when the itinerants were The K-word refers to when they were known for being where to send your exhausted farm animals for meat and glue.

The slavery is appalling, but I find people's attitudes in here to be worse to a degree. Whatever the current PC term for them are, they're still humans. They're still good people, or bad people. Yeah they had a group of slaves, but a lot of "normal" people have been found guilty of imprisonment or worse over the last number of years. Culture has nothing to do with it. These people are just bad; travellers as a whole are not.

Well I'll stick with the K word then as they have decieded I dont want my labrador pup anymore and took her off my hands!
Peoples attitude here is worse than slavery ????

Funny how most peole you speak with have had a negitive experience with travellers.
Maybe we need to accept they are mostly bad then with possibly a few good ones instead of the usual vise-versa [EMAIL="cr@p"]cr@p[/EMAIL] of good with a few bad one's.

the_syco

Billy86 wrote: »

Those who give the travelling community a bad name should in my opinion should be dealt with very, very harshly such is the severity of circumstances that we have come to.

The good ones are ignored, the bad ones are protected by Pavee Point.

R P McMurphy

Maruney wrote: »

Well I'll stick with the K word then as they have decieded I dont want my labrador pup anymore and took her off my hands!
Peoples attitude here is worse than slavery ????

Funny how most peole you speak with have had a negitive experience with travellers.
Maybe we need to accept they are mostly bad then with possibly a few good ones instead of the usual vise-versa cr@p of good with a few bad one's.

Whatever about the slavery thing, anyone guilty of stealing a dog deserves to be beaten to death :mad:

Dermighty

appalling stuff

On a side note:

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Some of the men could of been held as slaves for 15 Years

could have been

rowa

the_syco wrote: »

The good ones are ignored, the bad ones are protected by Pavee Point.

Yeah 98% of traaaaaaavelers get the other 2% a bad name. If they are an ethnic minority called "irish travellers" and they don't travel then "irish traveller" minus the "traveller" bit equals "irish" and thus should be subjected to the same laws on trespass and public order etc like everyone else.

Chuck Stone

They didn't do it because they are Travellers they did it because they are nasty fuckers.


I wonder why the slaves didn't run away?

tayto lover

Chuck Stone wrote: »

They didn't do it because they are Travellers they did it because they are nasty fuckers.


I wonder why the slaves didn't run away?

Maybe they thought they were on an Internship Scheme and getting 50e on top of their food and lodgings. Its quite common here now it seems, working for feck all i call it.

Stev_o

Why can't travellers speak English. Im fairly sure they communicate with winks and nods now.

who the fug

Dermighty wrote: »

appalling stuff

On a side note:



could have been

wrong, I understood what he meant so it be OK

Engerlish evolves.

J. Marston

So, anyone else see the traveller with huge boobs on Sky News?

Stev_o

J. Marston wrote: »

So, anyone else see the traveller with huge boobs on Sky News?

Yup, nice to see the UK's social welfare being put to good use.

Big Nasty

J. Marston wrote: »

So, anyone else see the traveller with huge boobs on Sky News?

Pics?

silly

One of the 15 have left the medical centre and headed back to the camp site saying the police are overreacting, and its his home.
I think I heard most of the 15 are not supporting the police investigation.

Billy86

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot see how you draw a parallel between people kept hidden in a basement and never let out, and people used as work crews in public. It's simply not possible that the rest of the site were unaware.

Well, perhaps I worded myself poorly on that. My point was not about the crime(s), but the perception of them. Do I think there were other people on the site aware of what was going on? Probably, yeah. However, it is unfair to judge the entire site until/unless we know the entire site was aware of it. What really offended me earlier were the insinuations of this being common practice amongst the majority of travellers. That is unfounded, uncalled for, and would not be thrown around had this been in the settled community (be it Ballymunn, Mount Merrion or somewhere rural like Leitrim). Granted I maty have over-reacted to what (hopefully, looking back at it) were tongue-in-cheek jokes, but it is that kind of double-standard in society which does nothing to help an already fairly desperate situation regarding the travelling community.

At the same time, did I think in the days after the Fritzl case that the wife was aware of it? Probably, yeah. But the courts found that she was unaware of what was going on there, despite living in the very same house. The point made about blaming all Austrians for that was alluding to how some have been trying to place this on the entire travelling community (not even just the site; travellers full stop). Now that may have been hyperbolic, but it might be better to put it this way: if Americans, Australians, Koreans, or basically people from far away with little-to-no knowledge of the travelling community heard this story, and read that the slave-owners were Irish, how would people here like for the entire nation to be blamed over that in terms of international public opinion, or if people just used it to voice derogatory slurs against us? I would imagine it would leave quite a bitter taste in the mouths of many of those same people lumping the whole thing on the travelling community as a whole. I know it would leave a bitter taste in mine, I can tell you that much.

the_syco wrote: »

The good ones are ignored, the bad ones are protected by Pavee Point.

I am going to be interested in paying more attention to PP given the general reaction towards them in here, and the fact they seem to be at the route of much of the tension. I have known of who they are for a while, but beyond the odd statement or minor controversy, have not really looked very thoroughly into them. It is a shame if that is the case, because both sides have an awful lot of work to do in order to even begin patching things up, and if PP are as pig-headed in reverse as some on here have been, that is obviously about as counter-productive as you can get.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

They didn't do it because they are Travellers they did it because they are nasty fuckers.

I wonder why the slaves didn't run away?

Exactly this.

J. Marston wrote: »

So, anyone else see the traveller with huge boobs on Sky News?

Yeah, I pointed that one out earlier. Huge embarrassment, and definitely makes it look more widespread in that particular settlement. She knew about it you would have to be certain (her husband was one of those arrested they said if I remember right), and the calls of 'discrimination' on her part were so pig-ignorant on her part, and are going to make it a lot, lot harder for those in other sites who have nothing to do, nor any knowledge, or any of this type of stuff. E.g. you could 'tip off' the Gards about any old random site/settlement having slaves on a hoax, and their cries of discrimination have now lost a good deal of credibility because of that eejit.

Maruney

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Whatever about the slavery thing, anyone guilty of stealing a dog deserves to be beaten to death :mad:

Beautiful black Lab. I went up and saw her there but was run out the second I asked "where did you get the nice dog"
Went straight to the Guards and I quote "We wont be going in there after a dog" - this dog was worth about €350.

So there you have it, if there were a few bad eggs in that site why were the Guards afraid to go in?

Settled community who stick up for these people are fools.
I have had the misfourtune of living near a site 3 times now and nothing but trouble in each one.

Solair

I think the book should be thrown at whoever is responsible for this. It's just inhumane, inexcusable and utterly illegal under national and UN law!

However, I think the book should also be thrown at those behind The Industrial Schools and The Magdalene Laundries both of which were slavery operations which kept people in dire conditions without pay.

J. Marston

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Pics?

The day I take pictures of a traveller with a boob job on Sky News is the day that I know I've hit rock bottom. Sorry .

They did look nice, in fairness to her. Face was a mess though...

Billy86

Maruney wrote: »

Beautiful black Lab. I went up and saw her there but was run out the second I asked "where did you get the nice dog"
Went straight to the Guards and I quote "We wont be going in there after a dog" - this dog was worth about €350.

So there you have it, if there were a few bad eggs in that site why were the Guards afraid to go in?

Settled community who stick up for these people are fools.
I have had the misfourtune of living near a site 3 times now and nothing but trouble in each one.

That's a disgrace both for the travellers in that site, and the Gards also. IMO those partocularly bad trouble spot should be broken up constantly, and resistance if they are violent enough about it should result in a quick visit from the riot police.

As much as we need to treat travellers better for the most part, the bad spots need to be clamped down on strongly, something similar to NC's broken windows policies 20-25 years ago.