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Newbie to Production

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    #32
    Android 666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    Laserface wrote: »
    i'd even go as far as saying that there hasn't been much epic electronic music made AT ALL since the birth of cheap home software. maybe the odd dubstep bassline here and there but compared to the electronic music that was made in the late 80s - late 90s.. its rubbish. why? software

    my 2 cents

    What
    a
    crock
    of
    sh¡t…


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    #33
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    All this bull**** talk of hardware vs software do any of ye actually get round to,ya know,making music and if so lets hear these tracks made with all hardware so we can hear how sonically superior they sound.:p

    there is a ton of disposable music from every single genre of music now because of technology,its not just electronic music.


    By the way agree wholeheartedly with Androids post,whats the difference in a kick from a 909 recorded into a daw and a sample of a kick from a 909?
    There is none :eek:


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    #34
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    software will never ever ever emulate or replace hardware
    I think youll find it has replaced hardware on the overwhelming majority.
    And fine if it doesnt emanulate an analogue synth but so what.you can get world class results with softsynths and some soft synths arent trying to emanulate any synth
    Believe or not there are **** analogue synths out there,same way there are **** softsynths.

    I dont buy this "i can tell its analogue compared to digital either"
    Theres no way in a mix you can pick out the difference between a good softsynth and an analogue synth unless as stated its a very specific sound especially as most synths will be eq'd and maybe have effects on them,very rare you will have a pure synth sound in a final mix on a song.


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    #35
    Doge
    Registered Users Posts: 9,017 ✭✭✭Doge


    seannash wrote: »
    All this bull**** talk of hardware vs software do any of ye actually get round to,ya know,making music and if so lets hear these tracks made with all hardware so we can hear how sonically superior they sound.:p

    there is a ton of disposable music from every single genre of music now because of technology,its not just electronic music.


    By the way agree wholeheartedly with Androids post,whats the difference in a kick from a 909 recorded into a daw and a sample of a kick from a 909?
    There is none :eek:

    depends on how well recorded the sample is! ;)

    I can hear digital artifacts in the 808 and 909 samples included with the RS7000, I've been meaning to load a better sample kit myself lately.
    But yeah, there should be no difference if its a decent quality sample.

    99% of the tracks out there these days are digitally recorded anyway, even the ones pressed to vinyl
    so it makes **** all difference.


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    #36
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    waveform wrote: »
    depends on how well recorded the sample is! ;)
    Which is kinda the point.you might have an analogue drum machine but you still have to get it inside your daw.meaning you have to run it through some decent converters.
    I think its overkill especially when someone else has gone to the bother of doing it already


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    #37
    Polygon_window
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭Polygon_window


    seannash wrote: »
    I think youll find it has replaced hardware on the overwhelming majority.
    And fine if it doesnt emanulate an analogue synth but so what.you can get world class results with softsynths and some soft synths arent trying to emanulate any synth
    Believe or not there are **** analogue synths out there,same way there are **** softsynths.

    I dont buy this "i can tell its analogue compared to digital either"
    Theres no way in a mix you can pick out the difference between a good softsynth and an analogue synth unless as stated its a very specific sound especially as most synths will be eq'd and maybe have effects on them,very rare you will have a pure synth sound in a final mix on a song.


    Rubbish, a good analogue synth sticks out like a beggar in Monaco!!!


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    #38
    Polygon_window
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭Polygon_window


    seannash wrote: »
    Which is kinda the point.you might have an analogue drum machine but you still have to get it inside your daw.meaning you have to run it through some decent converters.
    I think its overkill especially when someone else has gone to the bother of doing it already


    Laziness!


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    #39
    Doge
    Registered Users Posts: 9,017 ✭✭✭Doge


    Polygon_window wrote: »
    Rubbish, a good analogue synth sticks out like a beggar in Monaco!!!


    Plenty of digital synths out there with bags of character that stick out just as much also.

    The Yamaha DX series, The Ensoniq ESQ-1, the c64 sid chip (well it had an analog filter, digitals oscs though), and many many more which I havent listened to extensively.


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    #40
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Polygon_window wrote: »
    Laziness!
    So what your saying is that the results will be the exact same whether you use a good sample of a 909 or a real one and the only difference is that it takes alot more work to use a real 909.

    Cool


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    #41
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Polygon_window wrote: »
    Rubbish, a good analogue synth sticks out like a beggar in Monaco!!!
    Ah yeah,lets just stick with that so.You believe after a synth has been compressed eq'd and maybe had effect put on it you can still tell.

    Fair enough


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    #42
    Doge
    Registered Users Posts: 9,017 ✭✭✭Doge


    seannash wrote: »
    Ah yeah,lets just stick with that so.You believe after a synth has been compressed eq'd and maybe had effect put on it you can still tell.

    Fair enough

    Depends on the synth, and how much of a unique character it has.

    Doesnt matter **** if its analog or digital really, but analogs generally do tend to have more of a unique chracter when compared to digital, in numbers i mean, especially when compared to soft synths.

    Too many people compare digital emulations to recordings of the original synth which have all the eq and effects added.

    They then proceed that the digital emulation lacks the "bite", and characteristics they remember from listening to these classic tracks.

    The x0xb0x is an even more extreme case, it uses the same analog circuity of a TB-303 for the sound generation,

    and yet people claim it lacks the bite of a real TB-303.

    They seem to forget that eq and effects are necessary to make it sound like something they heard on a recorded track.

    If the OP is still reading this thread,
    then maybe ignore what ANYONE has to say and find your own path, this debate is more off putting than anything else for a newbie!


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    #43
    SteveDon
    Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭SteveDon


    Polygon_window wrote: »
    Laziness!
    Let us hear some of your tracks then mr high and mighty!


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    #44
    Laserface
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭Laserface


    Android 666 wrote: »
    What
    a
    crock
    of
    sh¡t…
    my opinion is a crock of ****.. ?

    interesting

    the fact remains.. your Vst's have the letter V in them for a reason.

    some seriously childish mud slinging in here. polygon window hardly comes across as high and mighty just because he actually knows his stuff.

    i use software and hardware..and also am involved in running a local producer night.. where i see and experience almost every type of production thats possible. I always keep my mouth shut and my opinions to myself.. unless someone starts comparing a real synth to a virtual synth. their titles alone should give it away.

    there are tons of huge differences between producers. You'll get lads thinking they are god's gift because they avoid sampled loops.. whereas every sound in their work is actually a sample. you'll get lads who don't have an ounce of musical talent or ability in their bodies but will think they are excellent just because they can master and can technically get something to sound good..with 3 weeks worth of effort. and you'll get hardware vs software heads killing each other too. like us.

    why does everyone seem to think they know best about music? unless you are mozart or steve reich..?

    its a shame it becomes as big an issue as it is.. after all you will rarely see non-electronic musicians fighting like this over who's bass strings are higher quality and whose footpedal produces the clearer flange.

    each to their own..

    and again.. thats my 2 cents. and thats all it is.


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    #45
    SteveDon
    Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭SteveDon


    Laserface wrote: »
    my opinion is a crock of ****.. ?

    Well come on..... you can hardly say their hasnt been any good electronic music since software started becoming prevalent. There is an outrageous amount of good tracks been produced these days. There is an even more outrageous amount of **** tracks being made, but you can find epic tracks if you look.
    Laserface wrote: »
    some seriously childish mud slinging in here. polygon window hardly comes across as high and mighty just because he actually knows his stuff.

    How can you say he knows what hes talking about if he hasnt posted any of his tracks?

    If he really knows what hes on about he should be producing quality tunes..., so lets hear them mate.


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    #46
    Android 666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    I was calling your opinion rubbish not because of the whole software/hardware debate which is frankly a load of tiresome bollix but because you contend that there has been no epic electronic music made in the last 10-15 years. Serioulsy what planet are you on? The music didn't stop being epic, you did. You sound like once of those heads that hangs around the oldskool thread on the electronic forum and you throw in a bit of rubbish about dubstep. There's going an unseemly amount of crap out there, I should know - I contribute to it - but right now is probably one of the most interesting times for underground electronic that there's ever been and this is coming from someone that can remember the 'classics' from the first time around. There is so much amazing music being made right now that it's unreal. There's always going to be bad trance, hardstyle and all that other rubbish but feck me check out labels like Hyperdub and Hotflush and artists like George Fitzgerald, Sandwell District and Joy Orbison and tell me that stuff isn't epic. You can bemoan the fact that it isn't made on an analogue synth, me, I'm hitting the dancefloor. To paraphase that monkey Ian Brown 'It isn't where you're coming from, it's where you're at!'

    A dick making useless noise with a VST is the same as the dick making useless noise with a moog.


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    #47
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    The mud slinging is never started by anyone who is a fan of soft synths,99% of times is when someone who is convinced analogue is the only way.

    Just like what happened in this thread


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    #48
    red dave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭red dave


    Lads cool it...

    My cocks bigger than all of your cocks put together!


    Back to the OP...

    If you're thinking about getting Abelton then yes go for it my son! I've heard many a good things about it. Lots of tutorials online for you to get up to speed with etc.

    Yes also go for Maschine...this too I have heard good things about.


    The End.


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    #49
    Polygon_window
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭Polygon_window


    SteveDon wrote: »
    Well come on..... you can hardly say their hasnt been any good electronic music since software started becoming prevalent. There is an outrageous amount of good tracks been produced these days. There is an even more outrageous amount of **** tracks being made, but you can find epic tracks if you look.


    How can you say he knows what hes talking about if he hasnt posted any of his tracks?

    If he really knows what hes on about he should be producing quality tunes..., so lets hear them mate.


    .1. i don't believe i ever said i knew my stuff!!!
    .2. i don't post my tunes up for free!!!
    .3. i have nothing to prove to you, i am merely given an opinion and advice to the op, its up to him
    .4. i don't care what you think, learn the hard way, i have spent a whole lot of money building my studios and have been down the soft synth path many moons ago, i don't rate them and have stopped using them - my choice!!!
    .5. Yes i do believe a lot of the new electronic music made with vst's is rubbish but of course there are exceptions to every rule, Pantha du prince being one of them, but are you that talented? have acess to the best studios in Berlin/Switzerland for mixing/mastering, if so, go for it!!
    .6. Its far easier to learn the trade using real instruments!

    i'm outta here -bye now!

    oh and yes i do like to go to the trouble of creating my own beats for the same result!!! or so you may think!


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    #50
    SteveDon
    Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭SteveDon


    Polygon_window wrote: »
    .2. i don't post my tunes up for free!!!

    So where can i buy them then if this isnt a complete cop out?


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    #51
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Polygon_window wrote: »
    .
    .2. i don't post my tunes up for free!!!
    A Steve said,where can we buy them.there are also tons of site that let you stream music so people can hear it without having to pay


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    #52
    hubiedubie
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭hubiedubie


    I suspect, at this stage, we've completely scared the OP off. Poor chap. Bet he's handing out in the classical forum now.


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    #53
    Doge
    Registered Users Posts: 9,017 ✭✭✭Doge


    Polygon_window wrote: »
    .1. i don't believe i ever said i knew my stuff!!!

    He was replying to Lazerface there, who thinks you know your stuff.
    .2. i don't post my tunes up for free!!!
    Not even a sample?
    You'll never sell music that way my friend, if you don't let people hear a sample before they buy.

    Sure why not give us a link to your releases on discogs so maybe we can buy the tunes and listen to them?
    Or is there no releases?
    Polygon_window wrote: »
    and have been down the soft synth path many moons ago, i don't rate them and have stopped using them - my choice!!!
    So you completely abandoned soft synths a long time ago?
    Then your opinion is pretty much out dated at this stage,
    and you clearly are not in the know about all the softsynths that have been released since then.

    Times change dude, we have came a long way since Propellerheads Rebirth. :pac:

    Take Care.


    People need to stop being so hung up about the gear they use, and get more hung up about what they can do with it.


    Some of the best tracks have came from artists who worked in constraints,
    by pushing what they have to the limits,
    because they have the talent and creativity to get the most out of it.

    Its these kind of people that constantly put gear whores to shame.

    **** the politics.


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    #54
    Polygon_window
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭Polygon_window


    waveform wrote: »
    He was replying to Lazerface there, who thinks you know your stuff.


    Not even a sample?
    You'll never sell music that way my friend, if you don't let people hear a sample before they buy.

    Sure why not give us a link to your releases on discogs so maybe we can buy the tunes and listen to them?
    Or is there no releases?


    So you completely abandoned soft synths a long time ago?
    Then your opinion is pretty much out dated at this stage,
    and you clearly are not in the know about all the softsynths that have been released since then.

    Times change dude, we have came a long way since Propellerheads Rebirth. :pac:

    Take Care.


    People need to stop being so hung up about the gear they use, and get more hung up about what they can do with it.


    Some of the best tracks have came from artists who worked in constraints,
    by pushing what they have to the limits,
    because they have the talent and creativity to get the most out of it.

    Its these kind of people that constantly put gear whores to shame.

    **** the politics.

    Friends, once again i'll reply for the last time :)

    i am just giving my opinion, if i dont like/use softsynths, its my choice as i stated!!
    no i wont post a link - i am not that much into myself to encourage people here to buy my music as i was just giving the op my opinion, its his choice on what road he wishes to take!!! I have nothing to prove to you and i dont care what you think in this regard

    if he takes it into consideration thats his choice!!

    i am very up to date with the latest and greatest software out there - i already gave my opinion on the daw of my choice for what it does now and what i think it will emerge as a market leader

    i never meant it to turn into a debate of what way is best i.e. software or hardware
    im not hung up at all on what gear i use or else i would of went down explaining the modular way and the infinite sounds at ones disposal

    post up your own damn tracks!!
    bye and best of luck with your productions, i really do mean this!!

    oh and i never said good music cant be made with softsynths, i believe i gave an example of an artist who uses softsynths and recorded sounds, a damn fine artist, but his a very fine artist who has great connections in the business but of course he did of course stat out as an unknown - are you that good??


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    #55
    seannash
    Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    I think you'll find most of us have soundcloud links in our sigs that link tracks


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    #56
    Omega28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭Omega28


    Sorry about the delayed response

    I have read through the comments, and thanks to everyone, I appreciate your feedback/advice.

    Reading some of the comments was like reading double dutch, It was like a totally different language, but I am sure I will pick up what u guys are talking about on my path in production.

    So, I decided to invest in a legit version of Ableton Live 8, I only purchased a MacBook Pro recently so didn't want to put cracked versions of anything on it plus I thought it would be a wise investment since I really want to get into production.

    I have been busy with college so I haven't had anytime to actually use it, a few mins here and there, thats about it!

    My next purchase was to get some sample packs, so I bought some sample packs of www.Vengeance-Sound.com which have the sounds I like.

    So now, I'm onto VSTs, I'm looking for recommendations here guys and dolls? as this is an area I know nothing about.

    My plan is to dedicate an hour or two each night to learn different areas.

    I don't have any more money to do an online course and there are many many tutorials out there but can someone recommend a decent youtube channel?! I think someone mentioned a few in a comment.

    thanks again for the advice guys!


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    #57
    Anima
    Registered Users Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭Anima


    http://www.kvraudio.com/db/synth1-by-ichiro-toda
    http://www.kvraudio.com/db/glitch_by_illformed
    http://www.kvraudio.com/db/crystal_by_green_oak
    http://www.kvraudio.com/db/superwave_p8_by_superwave
    http://www.kvraudio.com/db/rez-by-ugo
    http://www.kvraudio.com/db/phutura-by-phuturetone
    http://www.kvraudio.com/db/kairatune-by-futucraft
    http://www.kvraudio.com/db/tunefish-by-brain-control

    http://kunz.corrupt.ch/products - Most of these are decent

    Mostly free synths but there's an effect or two in there as well. Should be more than enough to get started before you get a commercial synth.


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    #58
    Hayte
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Hayte


    Only thing I would say is that theres plenty of great freeware out there but don't get it all at the same time just because its free. Add one at a time and give yourself time to get used to how it works. One of the quickest ways to land yourself in the hole is to go get a tonne of freeware in one go. You'll get buried in learning curves and you won't learn how to use anything properly. Before you have even learned the basics, you might even replace it with commercial software/hardware and the cycle of ignorance repeats itself. Its a really terrible situation to put yourself in.

    Today, making music on your PC isn't about not having enough options. The problem is the opposite: you have way too many options that are freely or cheaply available to you. It can get out of control and you can develop a really messed up idea of how things work if you don't take it slow and steady.

    Another thing is having loads of different tools to do the same thing. For example, you can pile up tonnes of effects like choruses, digital delays (echo), flangers, phasers etc but all these things are based on the same thing. You can do all of them using a time delay plugin like Voxengo Audio Delay (free) and modulating the time delay with an LFO. The length of the time delay and the speed of the modulation determines the effect (i.e. modulating long delays with a fast LFO = chorus, modulating short delays with a slow LFO = flanging, modulating very short delays with a slow LFO = phasing and using very long delays with no modulation = an echo).

    Its the same if you use tools like de-essers. De-essing can be achieved with a filter plugged into the auxiliary input of a compressor, even if many de-esser plugins do not look like a compressor or a filter, beneath the graphical interface, that is all it is.


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    #59
    ICN
    Registered Users Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭ICN


    Had to read that twice Hayte.. to understand what you were saying exactly, but yeah.. that sounds good enough to check out.

    Cool.
    ______________

    +1

    TAL are deadly.


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    #60
    Omega28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭Omega28


    I was half thinking about buying NI Massive, what do you guys think of this?

    Also, was thinking about buying a midi controller like this http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Akai-MPK-Mini-MIDI-USB-Controller-Keyboard-/150581440045?pt=Midi_Controllers&hash=item230f5a6e2d

    thoughts?

    thanks guys :)


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    #61
    hubiedubie
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭hubiedubie


    Re. Massive: I think Massive is a decent synth, not the best out there but good. It's used by lots of pro producers and there's lots of tutorials online for it.
    It covers subtractive / analog emulation and also wavetable so the sound palette is big. And it can, like it's name sound massive. Some nice distortion/waveshapers/bitcrushers, a big selection of filters. Modulation system is cool too.
    I own it however it's never the first synth I would go for but it's still a decent purchase.

    Incidentally if your're buying plugins check out the marketplace at www.kvraudio.com. Lots of deals to be had there.


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