Newbie to Production

Omega28

can anyone recommend a vsti like massive or better than massive?

thanks

Hayte

Uhhh, Massive is quite a technical synth (semi modular/wavetable synthesis). I don't recommend it for a beginner. I don't even recommend it for intermediate users because it'll put strange ideas into your head and then when you are sufficiently confused, you will just use presets for the rest of your life and thus make pick n mix dance music forever.

For example, the modulation oscillator is basically an LFO capable of audio rate modulation but (as far as I can tell) can't be used for cross modulation or ring modulation which...doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but whatever. If you have no idea what the above means then start running for the hills because this synth will. confuse. the. s**t. out. of. you.

Unoe-60 is where a beginner starts, then you graduate to Synth1. If you can program Synth1 you can also program any other subtractive synth of similar complexity like Nord Lead 2. Hell, Synth1 even sounds like a Nord Lead 2. After you get good at Synth1 then a good entry point into modular subtractive synthesis is Uhe ACE. At this point you have to unlearn some concepts such as the difference between oscillators and LFOs (they are the same thing, the only difference is the rate). So you can use oscillators as LFOs and vice versa. i.e. you can plug an oscillator into a filter so its modulating the cutoff. Set it to audio rate and use the filter as an FM source for another oscillator. It also introduces you to concepts like cross mod and ring mod. If you can program ACE then you can look at almost any modular Moog and know roughly how to work it by following the cables from input to output.

Once you get to that stage you can say you are pretty decent at programming subtractive synths, which is the easiest kind to learn and will do you well for alot of the stock buzzing, chirping, bleeping sounds in dance music. At that point you can jump into any other synthesis type but they are typically more arcane. Some of it like Additive and FM synthesis requires some basic knowledge of math to understand and then program (in the case of FM you will need to refresh your trigonometry otherwise you won't have a clue what you are doing and will turn into a cookie cutter DX preset peddler).

Laserface

Android 666 wrote: »

I was calling your opinion rubbish not because of the whole software/hardware debate which is frankly a load of tiresome bollix but because you contend that there has been no epic electronic music made in the last 10-15 years.

You can bemoan the fact that it isn't made on an analogue synth, me, I'm hitting the dancefloor.

no my opinion isn't rubbish, yours is.. I SWEAR!
etc etc.
Its a bit childish to insult my opinion would you agree?
it ain't gonna change in fairness as i tend to form my own as opposed to jumping on the opinion of the majority

and pls don't try to make out that anyone is bemoaning anything..this is a forum for discussing points. if you're too immature to realise that even as "someone who remembers oldskool"... then you should maybe take a break from your laptop

As I already said ..a vst to a synth is like internet porn to a real woman.
anyone who even contemplates disagreeing with that needs their heads checked.

Android 666

Laserface wrote: »

no my opinion isn't rubbish, yours is.. I SWEAR!
etc etc.
Its a bit childish to insult my opinion would you agree?

You made a claim that was completely ridiculous and I challenged it. I'm not going to apologise about it because you feel insulted.

Laserface wrote: »

it ain't gonna change in fairness as i tend to form my own as opposed to jumping on the opinion of the majority

You're forming your own opinion based on the mantra of most of the people on gearslutz - that's hardly being an original thinker tbf.

Laserface wrote: »

and pls don't try to make out that anyone is bemoaning anything..this is a forum for discussing points. if you're too immature to realise that even as "someone who remembers oldskool"... then you should maybe take a break from your laptop

If this isn't bemoaning then I don't know what is:

i'd even go as far as saying that there hasn't been much epic electronic music made AT ALL since the birth of cheap home software. maybe the odd dubstep bassline here and there but compared to the electronic music that was made in the late 80s - late 90s.. its rubbish. why? software

my 2 cents

Maybe you should take a break from your synth and listen to some music being made at the moment.

Laserface wrote: »

As I already said ..a vst to a synth is like internet porn to a real woman.
anyone who even contemplates disagreeing with that needs their heads checked.

Is this the Swiss Tony train of thought? 'Playing a synth is much like making love to a beautiful woman. You have to fiddle with her until she starts making sweet sounds.'

The fact is this is a thread dealing with somebody wanting to get into music production. To suggest buying thousands of euros worth of analogue equipment like some people here have is farcical. He is better off buying a copy of Ableton like he has, buying a set of Sennheiser HD25 headphones and getting to grips with how to make sounds with synthesis using books like this: http://noisesculpture.com/how-to-make-a-noise-a-comprehensive-guide-to-synthesizer-programming (This book is downloadable for free here from the author's site).

If they get a taste for music production and feel it's something they want to explore more then suggest to them to move onto analogue synths and monitors and everything else needed to give people the required gear horn they need.

Soft and analogue synths are different and both bring different things to the table but to dismiss one totally because you're being a bit sniffy is ridiculous. Softsynths and DAWs give an unprecedented ease of access for people to make music but just because there is an unbelievable amount of bad music being made by people that haven't a clue doesn't mean you blame the tools that they used. Those tools in the right hands can produce great music and people that have a well rounded knowledge of synthesis (which I don't have unfortunately) can make most anything they want on those soft synths. If you're new to production you're better off learning how synthesis works, what various oscillators and filters do and applying them to soft synths and then maybe moving to analogue synths if you have the inclination and your budget can stretch that far. Buying an analogue synth and doing nothing more than twiddling the knobs with out any idea of what you're doing is as useless as a guy using the presets on their softsynths.

eeloe

I really feel people are getting too in to the analogue vs digital debate....I like where ismta going, but lads leave out the petty arguing.

The best bit of advice I was given when I started a few years ago, was to pick a DAW(which the OP has already done) get some good clean samples(drum and perc sounds) and 1 synth.

Learn to master that one synth, and if you feel you are trying to get a sound that you can achieve from that synth, then do some research in to another one to purchase, if you start messing around and have a HD full of synths that you don't know how to use.

The best one I've personally experienced that has a broad range is Sylenth1.

Neverlandland

We should get back onto topic, if anyone wants to continue the digital vs analog debate, they should probably do it via private messages as most people don't care, this could have been a useful thread.

OP: I would suggest that if you want to produce and play live, go for ableton. If you mainly want to produce, go for fruity loops, mainly because of the huge quantity of tutorials on youtube!

I wouldnt bother with Massive. Try Synth1 first. When you're used to that, you'll be in a better position to decide which synth you would like to splash out one. If I had to pick one, it would be Sylenth.

When starting, check out as many tutorials as possible. However, you will get bogged down if you get too many synths. You'll be searching for the ultimate patch, when in fact you'd be better off just tweeking some other patch yourself.

I think it is very important to force yourself to produce songs, even if they're crap. I have spent a lot of time producing over the last couple of years, but only have a handful of songs done which isnt great. Practice makes perfect and you will notice each one get better, so work to deadlines - make sure you dont spend too long on the one project.

At the minute, I am working on 3 week cycles. Week 1 I'll songwrite and sound design, and in week 2 I mix and 'master'. Week 3 is just spent looking at tutorials etc trying to become good at synthesis and knowing my synths inside out.

With a cycle like this, you get songs done while also learning a lot about different techniques, and you don't get bored! Then in time, you can shorten the cycles until you can come up with a song completely in a day or so! That's the plan anyway...

hubiedubie

Dylanmc111 wrote: »

can anyone recommend a vsti like massive or better than massive?
thanks

Closest in functionality (and better):
Waldorf Largo - offers both wavetable and subtractive synthesis.

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However, for a beginner I would recommend one of the following:

1. FXPansion SynthSquad: The Strobe synth is perfect for beginners. It has a waveform display and simple controls. As you advance you can start to use the others (Amber, Cypher etc)
2. Lennardigital Sylenth: Simple subtractive synth with powerful sound.
3. U-he Imposcar 2. Decent emulation.

For free ones: Any of the TAL/TOGU synths as has already been mentioned:

http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products