Your Team To Play Australia

onlyrocknroll

Call me crazy (or worse) but I think that it might be worth starting this match without Heaslip.

His form has been very poor so he shouldn't be considered undroppable, even considering his undoubted class. It would allow us to pick Ferris and still allow SOB to play in a position where he offers a greater threat. And Jennings (admittedly not playing well either) would be there to hopeful slow down Australian ball.

SOB breaking from the scrum and hitting Genia or Cooper hard early in the match might be useful both tactically and psychologically for Ireland.

6 Ferris
7 Jennings
8 SOB

Heaslip on the bench to come on for Jennings on 60 min. He strikes me as the type of player who would respond positively to being dropped


(Other than that I say Healy on for Court, Trimble for Earls, and I'll sit on the fence re. the halfbacks.)

Stev_o

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people genuinely believe you can play 10man rugby vs these guys?

Do you think we can win a shootout against them?

Regardless this isn't the crunch match of the pool. Most important match is Italy.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

Do you think we can win a shootout against them?

Regardless this isn't the crunch match of the pool. Most important match is Italy.

nope, I don't think we can beat them anyway.
I'd rather see us try though.

Stev_o

Deleted User wrote: »

nope, I don't think we can beat them anyway.
I'd rather see us try though.

The only way we'll win this is playing it safe and forcing Cooper to do something stupid.

fallliner

My team would be:

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 DOC
5 POC
6 SOB
7 Ferris - he's fast than SOB and more likely to intimidate cooper.
8 Heaslip
9 Boss - better suited to this kind of opponent. Reddan average at best and will get eaten alive by Genia.
10 Sexton - got to stick with him.
11 Earls
12 BOD
13 Bowe - Dorce must be dropped so at least Tommy could create something.
14 Trimble - should be one of first names on sheet on form.
15 Murphy - only option as kearney not fit yet and we'll need kearney right if we're to have any chance of going deep in this tourny.

Subs would probably be something like - fla, court, cullen, Leamy, Rog, Reddan, Kearney

Jennings doesnt get a look in for me ... shouldnt be there in first place

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

The only way we'll win this is playing it safe and forcing Cooper to do something stupid.

there is no safe vs Aus.

We wont compete at lineout time, we'll achieve parity in the scrums, and they'll find all the cracks that have been exposed by lesser teams in the past months.

If we go out there and fight dirty, we might be able to yellow card our way to a result, but 10 man rugby will hurt our overall ability to get this team firing in time for the rest of our games.

totallegend

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people genuinely believe you can play 10man rugby vs these guys?

We can't, we will get torn to pieces.

The Irish lineout cannot win ball on the opponents' throw, so kicking for the corners is not an option, especially when you have players like Cooper, O'Connor and Beale who have no problem breaking out of their own 22 and sprinting the length of the field.
Picking and driving around the fringes of the ruck is not a great call either when you have the likes of Pocock scavenging for ball and possibly the most physically strong scrum-half in the tournament defending.
The Irish scrum could well get the upper hand on Saturday but not to the extent that we're going to be driving them backwards at a rate of knots; if we get steady ball from the scrum, it has to be with the intention of launching the backs or giving Heaslip a platform to try to make a bit of yardage.

No, we need to go into Saturday with the intention of playing proper rugby and giving it a go. We have to attack and at least pretend like we're in the same century as the Aussies.

wixfjord

Stev_o wrote: »

The only way we'll win this is playing it safe and forcing Cooper to do something stupid.

I don't think so, which is why I'd play Sexton.
As I've said, if we play ROG, we'll keep it closer, but lose in the end imo.
If we play Sexton and he has a mare again, we'll be beaten out the gate, but our best chance is to play Reddan and Sexton, hope that we beast them with intensity, don't let POC or DOC carry at all, feed Ferris, SOB and Heaslip a vial of Quade's blood and run at them like we did against England, while beating in the forwards like we also did against England, and to hope that Sexton has finds his Northampton/England form.

Also, plenty of the patented wrap around, as I think Aussies 10-13 channel can be got at defensively.

Very unrealistic, and unlikely, but I do think an on form Sexton is far better at playing that high intensity game than ROG.

Lord Trollington

fallliner wrote: »

My team would be:

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 DOC
5 POC
6 SOB
7 Ferris - he's fast than SOB and more likely to intimidate cooper.
8 Heaslip
9 Boss - better suited to this kind of opponent. Reddan average at best and will get eaten alive by Genia.
10 Sexton - got to stick with him.
11 Earls
12 BOD
13 Bowe - Dorce must be dropped so at least Tommy could create something.
14 Trimble - should be one of first names on sheet on form.
15 Murphy - only option as kearney not fit yet and we'll need kearney right if we're to have any chance of going deep in this tourny.

Subs would probably be something like - fla, court, cullen, Leamy, Rog, Reddan, Kearney

Jennings doesnt get a look in for me ... shouldnt be there in first place

Your not from Ulster by any chance?

I got a good laugh from the bold bit.

Stev_o

wixfjord wrote: »

I don't think so, which is why I'd play Sexton.
As I've said, if we play ROG, we'll keep it closer, but lose in the end imo.
If we play Sexton and he has a mare again, we'll be beaten out the gate, but our best chance is to play Reddan and Sexton, hope that we beast them with intensity, don't let POC or DOC carry at all, feed Ferris, SOB and Heaslip a vial of Quade's blood and run at them like we did against England, while beating in the forwards like we also did against England, and to hope that Sexton has finds his Northampton/England form.

Also, plenty of the patented wrap around, as I think Aussies 10-13 channel can be got at defensively.

Very unrealistic, and unlikely, but I do think an on form Sexton is far better at playing that high intensity game than ROG.

Im not advocating putting on ROG and calling up Hayes and Foley to rebrand 10 man rugby.

Im more pointing out that we wouldn't do well in a shootout game espeically how easily we manage to turn the ball over.

yupyup7up

PhatPiggins wrote: »

How can Bowe score two tries and have a 'shocker' ?

Because he must have knocked on at least 6/7 times. You'd expect him to be scoring against a team like the US.

thomond2006 wrote: »

He took his tries exceptionally well, was in the perfect position in both instances. 'Shocker' is probably referring to his general play, where he knocked on a few times and was unsure under the high ball. Probably a bit harsh because Murphy struggled too in that department.

Yeah he did well for his tries, but there was far too many handling errors. I only seen Murphy butcher a high ball once, for some reason he turned his body to face the line instead of the other way, so the ball went backwards but out to touch. Made no sense!

Quint2010 wrote: »

Agree. How can a player have a shocker when he was our most potent attacking threat and was involved in the build up and finished off our second try. He had a couple of knock on's including one pas that was fired at him at 30 mph from a distance of about 3 metres by D'Arcy

A couple? again, he knocked it on about 6 times. That's unacceptable at that level. Trimble is the form winger at the minute.

bamboozle wrote: »

less than 2 minutes in Earls is put clear through the centre with only full back to beat and with Heaslip on his shoulder, Earls showing zero composure ran across Heaslips line taking him out of the equation and was tackled by the full back.
All he had to do was run straight, draw the full back, pass to Heaslip and its try time under the posts.

Bowe got 2 trys despite his dreadful handling early on, plus have a look at the lines Bowe runs, he's the only back we have capable of running the support lines and low and behold he gets 2 trys for himself.

He made a mistake, so what? The only mistake of the game he made. Bowe is considered one of the best wingers in the world, earls is still learning his trade on the wing. Bowe is world class but he isn't match fit yet.

Timothy Bryce

.ak wrote: »

Hrmm, good thread tho.. I think the majority of us are in agreement with the who we'd like to see starting, there's some slight differences in everyones posts, but the funny thing is we'll see some unusual picks come saturday, because that's how Kidney does... :P

My 2c...

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. DOC
5. POC
6. SOB
7. Leamy
8. Heaslip
   
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. McFadden
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Court
17. Flannery
18. Cullen
19. Ferris
20. Murray
21. ROG
22. Earls

Couple of things: The SH/FH pairing is so important from the kick off... I'm not wearing blue-tinted shades here, I honestly think Sexton and Reddan on their best days will compete with the best. Also communication is key.. if Kidney decides to start ROG, that's fine, that's understandable.. but he must start a familiar SH with him: Murray. No more of this mixing at the pivot...

Leamy at 7? I know, but SOB is a world class 6, and that'll be one of our few strengths.. Also he can move about for Ferris to come on as an impact sub.

Earls as replacement? Well if dreams come through and Kidney drops Darce for McFadden we'll need someone that can double up as FB if Kearney takes a blow.. Earls had a great game at FB in march, and is looking less like a finisher these days.. he'd be ideal at FB cover, or just a general 22. More than likely Wallace will get this role.

Earls must be picked immediately. At fullback.

Ditto Leamy at 7.

:pac:

Leslie91

whycliff wrote: »

Your not from Ulster by any chance?

I got a good laugh from the bold bit.

I thought that was interesting too. No doubt Ferris is quality and quick, but 1 thing he is not, is faster than SOB.

wixfjord

whycliff wrote: »

Your not from Ulster by any chance?

I got a good laugh from the bold bit.

Ferris is about twice as fast as SOB. Didn't he used to be a sprinter?
Incredible athlete.

fallliner

whycliff wrote: »

Your not from Ulster by any chance?

I got a good laugh from the bold bit.

What was it that made you laugh? For clarity I think like most that SOB is probably our most dangerous player and most on form. I've been eagerly following him for years and cant wait to see a potential dream team combo with him and Ferris.

re: ferris having potential to intimidate cooper more - I meant that because Ferris is more oriented towards smashing guys in a man and ball sense than SOB. SOB is a beast with ball in hand.

re: having Ferris at 7 because he's faster than SOB .... hmmm he is faster full stop.

But thanks for the constructive feedback on my team suggestion ;-)

Leslie91

fallliner wrote: »

What was it that made you laugh? For clarity I think like most that SOB is probably our most dangerous player and most on form. I've been eagerly following him for years and cant wait to see a potential dream team combo with him and Ferris.

re: ferris having potential to intimidate cooper more - I meant that because Ferris is more oriented towards smashing guys in a man and ball sense than SOB. SOB is a beast with ball in hand.

re: having Ferris at 7 because he's faster than SOB .... hmmm he is faster full stop.

But thanks for the constructive feedback on my team suggestion ;-)

Is Ferris faster?, really?. I remember him running like a mad thing for the Lions in SA (before he got injured) but didn't think he'd be quicker than SOB. Having said that don't think he is a 7, probably too tall.

fallliner

Leslie91 wrote: »

I thought that was interesting too. No doubt Ferris is quality and quick, but 1 thing he is not, is faster than SOB.

Oh come on guys, lets not go off track with silly nonsense. Stephen Ferris is one of the fastest forwards in world rugby. There are two off the top of my head who can compete - Tom Croft and Pierre Spies (who is probably a tiny bit faster.)

Ferris is the 2nd fastest sprinter in the Irish squad behind only Tommy Bowe.

Again - I love SOB .... he's a monster and a legend in the making for years to come, but 1 thing he is not, is faster than Stephen Ferris.

Anyway ... what a back row we could have with these boys together, especially if Heaslip can rediscover his own form.

Shane10

wixfjord wrote: »

Ferris is about twice as fast as SOB. Didn't he used to be a sprinter?
Incredible athlete.

SOB seems pretty quick but hes prob shorter than ferris so maybe ferris dont seem as quick in peoples minds. both tanks of men. ferris was good against the USA. didnt know ferris was known for his speed though.

Leslie91

FWIW my MOTM yesterday was Ferris.

Who won MOTM?, anyone know?.

pickarooney

I don't know who got it but Todd Clever would have been my pick.

Rattlehead_ie

P O'Connell. Who I thought had a good game. He did a lot of donkey work, but agreed Ferris was a player you defo noticed on the pitch. Rarely heard mention of Heaslip or D'Arcy. I think I would prefer to see McFadden in there.

As for ROG Vs Sexton. I don't mind either one starting, they both bring a different style of play to the back line and the game, so depending on what game Aussie bring to us. What I will say in ROG defense is, yes he may not be the best tackler, but you could say the same a Copper, I mean ffs Aussies, put him in full back on defense moves to protect him. Copper is a liability, can do amazing things, but can be terrible. If I'm honest my bigger concern would have been Digby Ioane but thank god he is out.

bamboozle

yupyup7up wrote: »

Because he must have knocked on at least 6/7 times. You'd expect him to be scoring against a team like the US.


Yeah he did well for his tries, but there was far too many handling errors. I only seen Murphy butcher a high ball once, for some reason he turned his body to face the line instead of the other way, so the ball went backwards but out to touch. Made no sense!


A couple? again, he knocked it on about 6 times. That's unacceptable at that level. Trimble is the form winger at the minute.



He made a mistake, so what? The only mistake of the game he made. Bowe is considered one of the best wingers in the world, earls is still learning his trade on the wing. Bowe is world class but he isn't match fit yet.

your original point was Earls was our best back and Bowe was poor, my point was Earls butchered a great opportunity to get us up and running while Bowe scored 2 trys on the day, i fail to see the relavence of the above?
either way in his 3rd season in the squad Earls can hardly be considered a novice.

trackguy

Stev_o wrote: »

The only way we'll win this is playing it safe and forcing Cooper to do something stupid.

I agree. Sure we can run the ball but with a) struggles with the breakdown and b) David Pocock, we should really only do it in the right areas.

Emmet is right about the lineout in fairness, we haven't competed there in years.

If we are going to play ROG and 'play it safe', Cullen should really start also.

trackguy

wixfjord wrote: »

Very unrealistic, and unlikely, but I do think an on form Sexton is far better at playing that high intensity game than ROG.

I agree on Sexton but if it is unrealistic what's the point?

I'd love us to go out and play like against England in March but on what evidence could we see it happening?

The best plan imo is to start ROG and bring Sexton on at 50 minutes to push the pace.

Cpt_Blackbeard

bamboozle wrote: »

if you want to go down the road of slurring Heaslip by calling him Houdini why dont we call DOC Jimmy Hoffa cause DOC has not been seen on the pitch in 2 seasons.
Leamy at 7 - you should really stick to munsterfans.

i'd take heaslip on a bad day any day over the penalty machine that is Leamy. Did you by any chance notice how our rucks disintigrated once Jennings was replaced by Leamy? Leamy POC and DOC were hanging out in the 10 channel looking to carry the ball when they should have been hitting rucks with gusto.

DOC's Munster form does not warrant a starting spot for Ireland but, when he is picked for Ireland he really ups his game. He was outstanding at the start of the 6N when most posters didn't think he deserved the start.

I don't think that Leamy is a 7 and I probably should have put Ferris at 7 as he is the faster player but, I was setting up the flankers to play right and left rather than open and blind. Having 2 very strong tacklers and counter-ruckers in Leamy and Ferris playing 6 and 7 would allow SOB, at 8, to fill a sort of Parisse role. By that I mean that he could concentrate solely on his carrying and link play between the forwards and backs. The worldcup isn't the place to try a completely new backrow dynamic though.

Dropping Heaslip was more sensationalism (and a bit of WUMing) than anything else. Kidney needs to take him aside and tell him that he needs to up his game or who ever starts against Russia has a good chance of getting ahead of him for the Italy match. He should be one of our standout forwards in every match and he should be playing for the post-WC captaincy imo. He needs to do what SOB did when he game on the scene - He needs to be greedy and look to impose himself on the game. He is a brilliant link man between forwards and backs and a great ball carrier but, we are not seeing that part of his game. At the start of the US match he was actively looking for the ball but, he got complacent as the match went on.

DOC is in the same boat as Heaslip although not to the same level. He needs to be told that his place is under threat. Ryan would be the man to take DOC's spot for the Italy game, if he performs against Russia, and not Cullen imo. If all the locks were in their best form, Cullen is a worse version of POC and Ryan is a worse version of DOC. Playing Cullen would completely chance the dynamic of our second-row pairing and doing it at the WC is risky. Cullen is very over-rated in these parts imo. (Of course the Munster fan would think that though, riiight?? :rolleyes: )

profitius

We need ball carriers. SOB and Healy will make a big difference and I'd also consider putting Donnacha Ryan ahead of DOC. Court, Ross, DOC and Jennings showed that they're not good ball carriers. Ross cannot be dropped so I'd change the others.

I also believe that Heaslip has not been mentioned this season mainly because Ireland are holding back their attacking plays until they meet the Aussies.

I'd start with Murray and Sexton again. The conditions were sh!te and they were getting sloppy ball all the time. If its a wet day though I'd play Boss!

We should also target the Australian scrum.

My team would be:

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 DOC
5 POC
6 SOB
7 Ferris
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Trimble
12 D'Arcy
13 BOD
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

Mr.Applepie

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

DOC is in the same boat as Heaslip although not to the same level. He needs to be told that his place is under threat. Ryan would be the man to take DOC's spot for the Italy game, if he performs against Russia, and not Cullen imo. If all the locks were in their best form, Cullen is a worse version of POC and Ryan is a worse version of DOC. Playing Cullen would completely chance the dynamic of our second-row pairing and doing it at the WC is risky. Cullen is very over-rated in these parts imo. (Of course the Munster fan would think that though, riiight?? :rolleyes: )

We have 4 locks in our squad who bar some minor differences are the exact same type of player. POC & Cullen are better in the lineout (slightly). DOC & Ryan do more "unseen work". Other than that they are basically carbon copies. None of them are good with ball in hand or look to offload in the tackle. We don't have a Botha type enforcer who will smash rucks all day. We have 4 locks who are the same weight, same height with the same skillsets.

DOC has been uselss (bar the 1 game in 10) for two years now.
POC would be fine if he just stopped trying to carry ball. He's useless at it, let someone who has a chance of making some ground do it.
Cullen hasn't been given a chance. He played well in the 6 nations 2 years ago but has gotten no gametime since, ditto Ryan.

andrewdcs

profitius wrote: »

I also believe that Heaslip has not been mentioned this season mainly because Ireland are holding back their attacking plays until they meet the Aussies.

that way lies madness sadly. I've no doubt this team have genuine world beating class in there somewhere, I just don't think we'd intentionally stifle it for a season cos I don't think the IRFU / Kidney etc. are insane......

HOLD on a MINUTE!


I'm sticking with the bad juju argument. Makes as much sense as anything, and as ever, rugbys 90% psyche 10% brutality and we have no mojo.

We need to get the whole group in a circle and shake feathers at them. If anything else the ensuing giggle fit should break inevitable tensions.

Reddan for Murray, Healy, SOB back in.

profitius

andrewdcs wrote: »

that way lies madness sadly. I've no doubt this team have genuine world beating class in there somewhere, I just don't think we'd intentionally stifle it for a season cos I don't think the IRFU / Kidney etc. are insane......

HOLD on a MINUTE!


I'm sticking with the bad juju argument. Makes as much sense as anything, and as ever, rugbys 90% psyche 10% brutality and we have no mojo.

We need to get the whole group in a circle and shake feathers at them. If anything else the ensuing giggle fit should break inevitable tensions.

Its been clear that they've been holding back. The set pieces are going well and so is the defense but the attack has been toothless. They're too good and too intelligent to be playing so badly. Btw, they've also more or less admitted that they're not showing their hand.

I think Ireland will look to play like Wales did against the Boks except kick less. The best way to defend is to attack so instead of going from side to side they'll keep it tight first and try to use SOB, Heaslip, Ferris and Healy to punch holes in the Aussies defense before going wide. They'll also try something inventive to unlock the Aussie defence like a little chip in behind the rushing defenders etc. They'll also be happier going through the phases and keeping it simple.

If its a very wet day ROG will start and they'll play more territory IMO.

Ireland will also look to try and dominate the scrums. Mike Ross is one of the worlds top scrummagers I think and Healy is also becoming a destructive scrummager.

twinytwo

profitius wrote: »

We need ball carriers. SOB and Healy will make a big difference and I'd also consider putting Donnacha Ryan ahead of DOC. Court, Ross, DOC and Jennings showed that they're not good ball carriers. Ross cannot be dropped so I'd change the others.

I also believe that Heaslip has not been mentioned this season mainly because Ireland are holding back their attacking plays until they meet the Aussies.

I'd start with Murray and Sexton again. The conditions were sh!te and they were getting sloppy ball all the time. If its a wet day though I'd play Boss!

We should also target the Australian scrum.

My team would be:

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 DOC
5 POC
6 SOB
7 Ferris
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Trimble
12 D'Arcy
13 BOD
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

We do need good ball carriers... but what we dont need is half the pack looking to carry like we saw agaisnt the US and no one getting stuck into the rucks,,, paul o connell should be banned from carrying ball off the ruck. he should be in the fecking thing