Drive - Ryan Gosling & Carey Mulligan [** SPOILERS FROM POST 219 ONWARD **]

Broads.ie

Broads.ie wrote: »

He was a shyte character. Extremely boring. End of story.

That's just completely untrue. The Driver was one if the most interesting characters in recent memory. Would you have preferred if he was just like Vin Diesel in the Fast and the Furious or like Nic Cage in Gone in 60 Seconds? It was nice to see a character in an action type film who was more than just a hardened military type or career criminal.

work.inprocess

Was really looking forward to this film and was really disappointed - didn't enjoy it at all.

e_e

Broads.ie wrote: »

He was a shyte character. Extremely boring. End of story.

UGH again you try to state your opinions as facts. It's not "end of story" because a lot of people happen to like the character. It's called subjectivity.

You need to calm down, some people feel differently to you not that big a deal.

demolitionman

i enjoyed it.

yeah probably was more style than substance but was still good for what it wanted to do.

what a fucking soundtrack!!!!!!!!!!!!

LeixlipRed

If a movie causes such divisive reactions it generally indicates it's better than 95% of movies made every year. Enough for me.

human repellent

OutlawPete wrote: »

I 'get' the movie perfectly fine, which is why I said in my post that it could so easily have been a classic. You'll always get people who think that, what Gosling brought to the film, is just exactly what was needed for the role, I'm just not one of those people. I don't care how many tooth picks the guy sticks in his mouth, he just was not right for this role and I feel others would have done a far better job, as they would have made it believable. That does not mean that I would want the essence of the character to be something different from what was written on the page, quite the contrary, a young Lee Marvin in the role is not what I am suggesting here, just an actor with more range than Gosling, as I feel the story was deserving of it.

When you want an audience to believe that a man can go from to polar extremes of emotion and behaviour, as this character does, then you need to cast an actor that can translate that onto the screen, give a performance that the audience will feel and will be shocked sure, but ultimately one where thay won't doubt the authenticity of the character's descension (whatever that is), which is why Scorsese had De Niro play Bickle and Kubrick had Nicholson play Jack, rather than whoever the 70's Gosling was at the time . Not sure I'd hold either of those two films in quite the same high regard had Warren Beatty for instance, played either role - but no doubt, had such awfulness befallen either picture, there would still undoubtedly be those who would say that Beatty was perfectly cast, as what he brought to the role, is what ultimately made the film.

And they would be right of course, partially at least, as what he would bring to the film, is what would make the film what would turn out to be but that is precisely why I feel Gosling was completely wrong for this role, as what he brought to the film, almost destroyed it. My guessing would be that on watching the dailies back, they could see Gosling just wasn't coming across as believable. Let's face it, he looks like a dork and a very preppy one at that and I would say that that is what the toothpick was all about (perhaps I'm wrong, could have been in the script long before he was on board). Of course, there could be an argument that nerdy, preppy types can snap too and that's true, but a nerdy preppy type would not walk around as if he thinks he's Steve McQueen, especially if he's had a life that this character must have had, to end up the way he has.

Another thing I wanted to mention ..

Why was character (and all that we are supposed to believe about him) walking around in this getup ..



A guy who is a loner and seemingly, the last thing he wants is to draw attention to himself, is wearing a silver 'look-at-me' cutesy jacket and not only that, but an armed robbery he's about be the getaway driver for?

Laughable.

Feel free to let me know who you would like to have cast in the role in his absence. I see nothing wrong wit the casting i see no fault in the film due to it.

I mean you're nit picking at a jacket, you don't know the characters past, perhaps it was a parting gift from his last life, perhaps he just likes it.

Where did the notion of him being a nerd come to fruition? He's a mechanic/stunt driver (crash scene) and a get away drive, yes an alround typical nerd.

perhaps he should be wearing leather....top to toe..

rediculous arguments, but meh!

IVIada

Phony Scott wrote: »

Saw it at the dublin movie fest and thought it was one of the best movies so far this year. I loved 'Bronson' and it's way better than the horribly pretentious 'Vahalla Rising'.

The first five to ten minutes of this film alone blew me away. It's exactly what I'd expect a film version of GTA to be like, but I'll say no more.

Can't wait to see it again, but some people will hate it. There were a few walk outs at the movie fest screening.

Couldn't of said it better myself so might as well quote you!! :cool:

Broads.ie

Phony Scott wrote: »

The first five to ten minutes of this film alone blew me away. It's exactly what I'd expect a film version of GTA to be like, but I'll say no more.

It's hardly a film version of GTA. It's not an action movie.

e_e

Broads.ie wrote: »

It's not an action movie.

Thanks genre police. :pac:

Warper

This film starts off great with an electric car scene. Then it lulls for about half an hour as the "love affair" takes off. Actually thought it was more of a love story at that stage as it did get a bit schmalzy. The film takes off again for the last hour though and it redeems itself. Overall its definitely one of the best films ive seen this year in what in fairness has been a crap year. 8/10

And ya what a soundtrack - go see it

OutlawPete

Deleted User wrote: »

A quick look at various forums and a lot of people are recognising autism in Gosling's mannerism. I find it rather amusing that people seem resistant to the idea that the Driver was autistic simply because no one explicitly states it in the film.

Well, my argument goes for them also. What they are picking up on is in Gosling attempts at playing this character, he is coming across as somewhat retarded. As someone already pointed out, he has this dumb grin on his face at times where it is mos inappropriate. I feel this is the main reasoning why there was laughter at the screening which I attended.

Deleted User wrote: »

What happened to watching a film and coming to your own conclusions?

Conclusions based on what though? Bad acting?? As there is nothing else to support the theory that he was autistic.

Deleted User wrote: »

.. people ate perfectly entitled to read into the film and many myself included recognises characteristics of autism in the manner the character was played.

Of course people are perfectly entitled to read anything they like into a movie and I welcome it, but people are also entitled to point out the nonsense of such conclusions should they so wish.

Deleted User wrote: »

Comparing the character to McQueen's in The Getaway is unfair. McQueen played a psychotic career criminal who would as easily kill a friend as he would a fly.

The point was that if he did, people would not then assume the character must have been autistic, as almost everything else in the film shows us he wasn't.

Deleted User wrote: »

Knowing two people with autism there are striking similarities between the manner in which they act and the mannerisms of Gosling's character.

Well, having worked with children and adults with autism for many years and also having an autistic sister myself (who is now 34) I myself see nothing about this character's story which would lead me to believe that his is autistic, nothing. If anything, there is a overwhelming evidence to support the contention that he most certainly is not.

Deleted User wrote: »

In Drive the character reacts to violence with violence he rarely instigates it but when he dies he does so to protect those he cares for.

Absolutely, a characteristic that couldn't be any further away from someone with an ASD (Autism Spectrum Disease). You assault someone with autism, they will retreat into themselves and regress even further. If they eve become violent, it is spontaneous, never calculating. The very fact that Gosling can be so calculating in the lift and wait for his moment, shows us that the guy is not in any way autistic.

If that is not enough to convince you that you (and anyone else that has taken such a view that Gosling's character is autistic) are way off-track, the very fact that throughout the movie he has no problem looking each and every person in the eyes while they are addressing him, should be as people with ASDs have serious difficulty with not only maintaining eye contact, but with even just glancing at another eyes, which is was why Levinson was so well applauded for Babbit's mannerisms in Rain Man.

Anyway, as I said, I think all this talk is really just looking for reasons to explain Gosling's mannerisms and over all poor performance in this film. Great film, I really enjoyed it, but it was ultimately beyond Gosling to play this part, as overall he just was not believable in the role which resulted in scenes that should have been full of tension, ending up being somewhat comedic as a consequence.

All just my opinion of course

OutlawPete

OutlawPete wrote: »

Well, my argument goes for them also. What they are picking up on is in Gosling attempts at playing this character, he is coming across as somewhat retarded. As someone already pointed out, he has this dumb grin on his face at times where it is mos inappropriate. I feel this is the main reasoning why there was laughter at the screening which I attended.



Conclusions based on what though? Bad acting?? As there is nothing else to support the theory that he was autistic.



Of course people are perfectly entitled to read anything they like into a movie and I welcome it, but people are also entitled to point out the nonsense of such conclusions should they so wish.



The point was that if he did, people would not then assume the character must have been autistic, as almost everything else in the film shows us he wasn't.



Well, having worked with children and adults with autism for many years and also having an autistic sister myself (who is now 34) I myself see nothing about this character's story which would lead me to believe that his is autistic, nothing. If anything, there is a overwhelming evidence to support the contention that he most certainly is not.



Absolutely, a characteristic that couldn't be any further away from someone with an ASD (Autism Spectrum Disease). You assault someone with autism, they will retreat into themselves and regress even further. If they eve become violent, it is spontaneous, never calculating. The very fact that Gosling can be so calculating in the lift and wait for his moment, shows us that the guy is not in any way autistic.

If that is not enough to convince you that you (and anyone else that has taken such a view that Gosling's character is autistic) are way off-track, the very fact that throughout the movie he has no problem looking each and every person in the eyes while they are addressing him, should be as people with ASDs have serious difficulty with not only maintaining eye contact, but with even just glancing at another eyes, which is was why Levinson was so well applauded for Babbit's mannerisms in Rain Man.

Anyway, as I said, I think all this talk is really just looking for reasons to explain Gosling's mannerisms and over all poor performance in this film. Great film, I really enjoyed it, but it was ultimately beyond Gosling to play this part, as overall he just was not believable in the role which resulted in scenes that should have been full of tension, ending up being somewhat comedic as a consequence.

All just my opinion of course

You say you have worked with autistic people have a sister who is autistic yet you can't see in the character of the Driver anything which may suggest that he is somewhat autistic?

Lets take a look at some of the characteristics of autism under a few groupings which the Driver exhibits.

Language/Communication:
Has flat or limited facial expressions
Does not use gestures
Rarely initiates conversation
May use few words

Social Interaction:
Spends time alone rather than with others
Less responsive to social cues such as eye contact or smiles
Seeks social contact in unusual ways

Play:
Lack of spontaneous or imaginative play
Is very attached to certain toys or objects (His car and the jacket)
Play is repetitive (Driving around night after night)

Behavior:
Drifts aimlessly
Exhibits strong and inflexible interests
Exhibits unusual or non response to pain

It's also important to remember that some people with autism do make eye contact. It's a myth that autistic people will never make eye contact, they may work on it for years but gradually many autistic suffers will be able to make and keep eye contact with others.

There are also numerous incidents where people suffering from Autism react with violence to situations. One famous one a few years back when after being sacked from his job a young man stabbed his manager to death and to this day fails to recognise that he was in the wrong. He had before this taken a knife to school planning to murder a girl who he felt had been taunting him. Now there have been a few cases where a psychopath has wrongly been diagnosed with having a form of ASPD so perhaps it was the former and not the latter that he was.

Laserface

interesting concept..i didn't think of the possibility of him being autistic.
will keep an eye for that when i watch it again someday

this film has certainly got people talking..so as a previous poster said..its obviously better than 95% of ****e released this year. i think we'll all agree on that.

personally i thought it was "style over substance" like many others do.. gosling was ok but i thought the story was really really bad. "nameless modern cowboy drama" or not..it still didn't make for an interesting story.
It was more like GTA Vice City meets Once

the worst point of the film..in my humble opinion... was the love story/relationship. literally made me sick

WHIP IT!

Watched it again last night with some pals. I haven't changed my opinion on it, it is just a bit of a nonsense of a film when it comes down to it.

I enjoyed the violence a bit more again the second time round - don't know what that says about me!

Swing and a miss here from Gosling... and as for that brrrutal jacket...

Tallon

Loved it, Kavinsky is one of my all time favorite artists too

The film is so 80's-ish.. love it

rossc007

I really don't know where the Autism references are coming from, thats a massive leap. I don't think there is a shred of evidence to support it, unless they cut the part where he cleans out a casino.

xalot

Am really torn about this film. Thought it was so beautifully shot and always love when a director is brave enough to use silence and let the audience read into scenes what they like....

I loved that Carey Mulligan's husband wasn't your typical bad ass husband you could see he really wanted to set things right with his wife and I loved the tension between all the characters....

the problem I have with it was that the narrative was a bit sparse and I didn't really relate to Ryan Gosling. I think he's an excellent actor but this role was a little beyond him, I understand why they didn't go with your usual rough and ready action guy but I never believed he was capable of that kind of violence. At times I felt he was so 'cool' and 'cut off' that he appeared a little retarded and I just didn't buy into it.

Boom_Bap

Watched Drive last night. Epic movie, everything about it is superb. Film of the year for me so far.

In relation to the whole autism debate, he isnt autistic. He is just all round bad as$.

OutlawPete

Deleted User wrote: »

You say you have worked with autistic people have a sister who is autistic yet you can't see in the character of the Driver anything which may suggest that he is somewhat autistic?

Correct.

Seriously Darko, this is laughable. Gosling was just miscast and bit off more than he could chew. I guess that's what can happen when studios let actors pick directors, rather than the other way around.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's also important to remember that some people with autism do make eye contact. It's a myth that autistic people will never make eye contact, they may work on it for years but gradually many autistic suffers will be able to make and keep eye contact with others.

A "myth"? Quite unbelievable. I'm lived with and worked with "myths" for yearss did I?

Look, as I said, I have worked with autistic children and adults, have a family member with it and without question, lack of eye contact is the single most common characteristic that I have come accross. You say: "they may work on it" as if they would even know that have an issue with it. The vast majority of children and adults that are autistic have no idea that they have trouble with eye contact, it's not something they think about. Sure, some people with ASDs will make more eye contact than others (my sister being somehwere around only 2% of the time that she is speaking with someone) and ABA helps tremendously if the diagnosis is given early enough and the therapy applied in time, otherwise though, as is the case in this country, that will be the exception rather than the rule.

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets take a look at some of the characteristics of autism under a few groupings which the Driver exhibits.

Language/Communication:
Has flat or limited facial expressions
Does not use gestures
Rarely initiates conversation
May use few words

Darko, you could apply any of the above four characteristics to almost any loner in history, let alone cinema history.

Deleted User wrote: »

Social Interaction:
Spends time alone rather than with others
Less responsive to social cues such as eye contact or smiles
Seeks social contact in unusual ways

Same with the above. Heck, I know many guys that the above could apply to.

Deleted User wrote: »

Play:
Lack of spontaneous or imaginative play

If you apply that characteristic to Gosling's character, then you would have to apply the same to so many others. Do you think DeNiro's character in Heat was autistic also?

Deleted User wrote: »

Is very attached to certain toys or objects (His car and the jacket)
Play is repetitive (Driving around night after night)

Jesus Darko.

You misunderstand just what type of behaviour that was being referenced with the above, when you cut and pasted them from the Autism website. "Play being repetitive" is referring to non-stop rocking or (as was the case with my sister from age 3 to 21) non-stop rolling from side to side on a bed. This guy drives his car around at night and so you think that could qualify as "repetitive play" with regards to autism? You can't be serious with this stuff and the same goes for you thinking that him wearing a satin jacket or being into his car classifies as being "attached to certain toys or objects" and so that also is him meeting yet another criteria on the list of autistic characteristics.

Deleted User wrote: »

Behavior:
Drifts aimlessly
Exhibits strong and inflexible interests
Exhibits unusual or non response to pain

So did John Rambo.

I don't know what forum you first read that autism link with Gosling's character on, but wherever it was, you should pay no mind, as they are just seeing something in the character that they want to. I'm sure there are many theories out there on forums that claim the guy must have been sexually abused as a child, or maybe even some that think that there is clear evidence that he was abducted by aliens at some point in his life (actually, might explain the jacket) but at the end of the day, there is nothing, either in the movie or in the script that would (or should) lead us to rationally believe that this guy was autistic.

Gosling just bit off more than he could chew here, as he just has not got the range to play a character of this nature without coming accross as a simpleton in scenes, wwith or without the toothpick. Maybe the lesson in all this is that it should be the directors that should choose the actors for films and not the other way round.

OutlawPete

OutlawPete wrote: »

Correct.

Seriously Darko, this is laughable. Gosling was just miscast and bit off more than he could chew. I guess that's what can happen when studios let actors pick directors, rather than the other way around.

What's laughable is that you seem so intent on proving that Gosling was miscast rather than even considering that maybe the character may have a form of autism.

OutlawPete wrote: »

"myth"? Quite unbelievable. I'm lived with and worked with "myths" for yearss did I?

Look, as I said, I have worked with autistic children and adults, have a family member with it and without question, lack of eye contact is the single most common characteristic that I have come accross. You say: "they may work on it" as if they would even know that have an issue with it. The vast majority of children and adults that are autistic have no idea that they have trouble with eye contact, it's not something they think about. Sure, some people with ASDs will make more eye contact than others (my sister being somehwere around only 2% of the time that she is speaking with someone) and ABA helps tremendously if the diagnosis is given early enough and the therapy applied in time, otherwise though, as is the case in this country, that will be the exception rather than the rule.

The point remains that there are people with autism who have gotten past the lack of eye contact and will make eye contact. It may be a small percentage but to say that all autism suffers will avoid all eye contact is a myth.

OutlawPete wrote: »

Darko, you could apply any of the above four characteristics to almost any loner in history, let alone cinema history.



Same with the above. Heck, I know many guys that the above could apply to.



If you apply that characteristic to Gosling's character, then you would have to apply the same to so many others. Do you think DeNiro's character in Heat was autistic also?



Jesus Darko.

You misunderstand just what type of behaviour that was being referenced with the above, when you cut and pasted them from the Autism website. "Play being repetitive" is referring to non-stop rocking or (as was the case with my sister from age 3 to 21) non-stop rolling from side to side on a bed. This guy drives his car around at night and so you think that could qualify as "repetitive play" with regards to autism? You can't be serious with this stuff and the same goes for you thinking that him wearing a satin jacket or being into his car classifies as being "attached to certain toys or objects" and so that also is him meeting yet another criteria on the list of autistic characteristics.



So did John Rambo.

All the info on autism I have comes from literature at hand aswell as being in meetings with social workers and trained professionals who spoke to my parents about it as they believed that my younger brother may have a form of autism.

One of the things that was repeatedly mentioned as a sign was that my brother would refuse to wear new clothes and favored 1 or 2 pieces above all else, trying to get him into any thing bar the one t-shirt was nigh on impossible. He would kick and scream if you tried to put anything other than the one t-shirt on but I guess you know better then people who spend every day diagnosing and working with autistic children, next time they call I'll be sure to tell them that they are wrong in their diagnosis.

The fact that each day he would repeats certain patterns in regards to his play time and how he favored 1 toy which he returned to over and over again was also a key point for their diagnosing him as having a form of autism but it seems that the trained professionals must be wrong.

Also, while other characters such as DeNiro in Heat or Man With No Name display a few of the characteristics I posted, very few exhibit so many of the characteristics of autism as the Driver does.

OutlawPete wrote: »

I don't know what forum you first read that autism link with Gosling's character on, but wherever it was, you should pay no mind, as they are just seeing something in the character that they want to. I'm sure there are many theories out there on forums that claim the guy must have been sexually abused as a child, or maybe even some that think that there is clear evidence that he was abducted by aliens at some point in his life (actually, might explain the jacket) but at the end of the day, there is nothing, either in the movie or in the script that would (or should) lead us to rationally believe that this guy was autistic.

Gosling just bit off more than he could chew here, as he just has not got the range to play a character of this nature without coming accross as a simpleton in scenes, wwith or without the toothpick. Maybe the lesson in all this is that it should be the directors that should choose the actors for films and not the other way round.

The theory that he had autism came when I was watching the film and the manner in which the charter acted and reacted. Though I must say it's funny how so many people, including people with autism seem to recognise in the Driver many characteristics of autism yet you are one of the few people who point to it as nothing but bad acting.

Funny how the majority of people, both critics and cinema goers are proclaiming the Gosling gives a terrific performance yet you have repeatedly claimed that it's terrible. You are very much in the minority there.

OutlawPete

Deleted User wrote: »

Funny how the majority of people, both critics and cinema goers are proclaiming the Gosling gives a terrific performance yet you have repeatedly claimed that it's terrible.

You are very much in the minority there.

So what if I am in the minority? Do you think that makes my views of his performance of less value or something? I couldn't care less what the consensus of opinion is when it comes to films or just about anything in the field of the arts for that matter. I think it says all that needs to be said, that you even bothered to make that point quite frankly.

OutlawPete

OutlawPete wrote: »

So what if I am in the minority? Do you think that makes my views of his performance of less value or something? I couldn't care less what the consensus of opinion is when it comes to films or just about anything in the field of the arts for that matter. I think it says all that needs to be said, that you even bothered to make that point quite frankly.

Hey like all art is subjective, everyone gets something different but when everyone else is calling a performance fantastic and you are one of the few people saying otherwise you do have to wonder. I know a film lecturer who will tell you that DeNiro in Taxi Driver gives a dreadful performance. He also believes that Tommy Lee Jones performance in No Country for Old Men was cringe worthy and ruined the film.

Rewatching parts of the film again earlier today and it must be said that Bryan Cranston is absolutely superb in the film. He's one of the most talented actors working today and is one of the few who can truly inhabit a role. Love to see him get some award recognition for his role.

Boom_Bap

Deleted User wrote: »

Rewatching parts of the film again earlier today and it must be said that Bryan Cranston is absolutely superb in the film. He's one of the most talented actors working today and is one of the few who can truly inhabit a role. Love to see him get some award recognition for his role.

I totally agree on Bryan Cranston in this, superb casting and performance.

But, I was disappointed with Ron Pearlman, he gave a great performance, but i dont think that he was suited to the role at all. But perhaps that's because I'm an uber SOA fan and it doesnt suit me if he's not patched up and on a Harley.

coconut5

Deleted User wrote: »

Rewatching parts of the film again earlier today and it must be said that Bryan Cranston is absolutely superb in the film. He's one of the most talented actors working today and is one of the few who can truly inhabit a role. Love to see him get some award recognition for his role.

I didn't love the film, but I thought he was great, and Oscar Isaac, the guy who played the husband.

Carey Mulligan made absolutely no impression, and normally I love her, but I just didn't buy her as a young mother, and I thought it was a bland performance.

Ryan Gosling was okay, but I much preferred him in Crazy, Stupid, Love. I just didn't like the pauses and the creepy smile.

Overall, I didn't get the film, homage to the 80s or not, it just didn't work for me. The best parts were the violent scenes, the rest of it just left me cold. Also, that song 'real human being and a real hero' was truly awful.

human repellent

Deleted User wrote: »

Rewatching parts of the film again earlier today and it must be said that Bryan Cranston is absolutely superb in the film. He's one of the most talented actors working today and is one of the few who can truly inhabit a role. Love to see him get some award recognition for his role.

Couldn't agree more, with breaking bad having one season left, I honestly think we will see him movie into more mainstream movies, without question IMO the best actor on the planet.

Mind you take that with a pinch of salt, as breaking bad is also my favourite tv show

rossc007

A quick google for "Drive Ryan Gosling Autistic" brought back some results

http://urbanhonking.com/isawthat/2011/10/05/please-drive/
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt175981.html

The first one is tongue in cheek, the second is just strange A huuuuuge leap if you ask me, there isn't a single nod to the fact he might have any kind of disability.

IMO, Gosling is trying to be cool, to match the tone of the entire film. If he's coming off autistic, I think he's missed the mark by quiet a margin. Personally, I think he did a good job, but I had an idea it would be divisive.

scico rocks

Deleted User wrote: »

What's laughable is that you seem so intent on proving that Gosling was miscast rather than even considering that maybe the character may have a form of autism.

Sweet Jesus.
An actor plays a role and plays it down instead of overacting, and you think the character is autistic because of this??
Laughable indeed.

I thought the film was great, very refreshing to see a movie like this where it's not all crash, bang, wallop for 90 minutes.

Gee Bag

Watched Drive for the second time.I'm still not overly impressed with it.

I think Ryan Gosling is a truly fantastic actor but was just miscast in this. He was able to carry both Half-Nelson & Lars and the Real Girl, both of which had the potential to be stinkers. He was also good in Blue Valentine which was just a very, very dull film.

Nicholas Winding Refn has used the strong silent type charecter in movies before, (Valhall Rising anyone?) but for me Gosling is too nuanced and too much of a pretty boy to pull off this role.

Carey Mulligan was so bland she could be the new Gwenyth Paltrow.

However, Brian Cranston gets a big gold star from me for his performance.

Gee Bag

You say you have worked with autistic people have a sister who is autistic yet you can't see in the character of the Driver anything which may suggest that he is somewhat autistic?

In fairness if you are trying to explain poor acting by claiming the lad is supposed to be autistic your kind of clutching at straws.