Galway CC vote to remove other roundabouts!

snubbleste

The City Manager was on the wireless this morning and stated that the contract for the traffic management centre is going out in the next few days and would be up and running by year end, january at the latest.

Yeah, so basically what ciotóg said.

coconut5

yeehaw wrote: »

Have a think about that one. I can imagine you posting this at any time of year. 'Why are they starting this in summer when all the tourists are here?'

Take your moaning elsewhere moaner.

Why should I? Just an observation. After Christmas would make more sense to me. Just my opinion.

Predalien

leonidas83 wrote: »

Council statistics, I wouldnt trust them or believe them to be accurate in the first place

They use private companies to gather the information on traffic volumes so I'd figure they're accurate enough, don't see why they would have any reason to use false statistics.

Mrs OBumble

PennyLane88 wrote: »

... More roads need to be put in not more f**king traffic lights.
... Headford road roundabout is a disaster, mainly due to those poxy traffic lights. And the fact alot of people who use it cannot get the concept of a roundabout.

So you acknowledge that there are a lot of drivers who cannot "get" RABs - but you want them to stay anyway???

I don't have a link (anyone else???) but am sure I've read that Ireland has the greatest proportion of its land mass devoted to roading of any country in Europe. We don't need more roads: we need better-managed ones, and better demand management of traffic flows.

And re Moneen: I travel thru it every day between 8:10 and 8:45am - never a problem. Travel back most days between 5:30 and 6, far far less problems than there were back in 2007, when the RAB was still there.

PennyLane88

JustMary wrote: »

So you acknowledge that there are a lot of drivers who cannot "get" RABs - but you want them to stay anyway???

I don't have a link (anyone else???) but am sure I've read that Ireland has the greatest proportion of its land mass devoted to roading of any country in Europe. We don't need more roads: we need better-managed ones, and better demand management of traffic flows.

And re Moneen: I travel thru it every day between 8:10 and 8:45am - never a problem. Travel back most days between 5:30 and 6, far far less problems than there were back in 2007, when the RAB was still there.

To put traffic lights on such a ridiculous roundabout, just aggravates the situation. And i never said i was against getting rid of roundabouts, however, the city council doesnt seem to be able to 'plan' and 'develop' roads at all.

I wouldnt mind if putting in a pile of traffic lights would solve the problem, but i know it wont. Drivers will get frustrated and start running red lights, especially during traffic jams. Its already happening on the headford road roundabout, whereby people just get annoyed when not allowed to drive on when there is space for them, causing near misses. And it happens alot at moneen too.

We might have the greatest proportion of land mass devoted to roads than any country in Europe, but it doesnt apply to Galway IMO.

FlashD

Why did they build roundabouts in the first place if they are all wrong?

Will they be changing the traffic lights in 15 years because those are all wrong too.

As I recall there were traffic lights in many places before the roundabouts.

They haven't a clue what they are doing. Let's be honest, this lot couldn't plan their way out of a paper bag.

Take a drive out to many of the suburbun towns and you will see all the houses and industrial estates just standing there empty.

....the council are a waste of our taxes, they get paid too much and they get too many entitlements. They have made a mess of the city and the county.

How would anyone trust this lot to make any decent decision, they are driven by greed.

Regards.

antoobrien

emptybladder wrote: »

(No link, read it in the paper)

Cheers, as a matter of interest which one?

antoobrien

FlashD wrote: »

As I recall there were traffic lights in many places before the roundabouts.

IIRC Many of the roundabouts replaced non signaled crossroads. I don't remember lights at GMIT, the Moneen, Cemetary Cross or Corrib Park, Bishop O'Donnell Rd (to access the Western Distributor) and mini roundabout at the Threadneedle road - but I was rarely over that side of town.

The Headford Rd roundabout (at Meno Park) was built to accomodate BNT, as were the roundabouts at Tuam Rd (JJ Flemmings), Ballybane, Briahill & Doughiska Roundabouts. Coolough was added to link in with the motorway.

The magic roundabout I couldn't be sure about, it's a roundabout so long.

johnnyk66

PennyLane88 wrote: »

....... Drivers will get frustrated and start running red lights, especially during traffic jams. Its already happening on the headford road roundabout, whereby people just get annoyed when not allowed to drive on when there is space for them, causing near misses......

Cant be much space for them if they're causing near misses.:eek:

Robbo

JustMary wrote: »

So you acknowledge that there are a lot of drivers who cannot "get" RABs - but you want them to stay anyway???

I don't have a link (anyone else???) but am sure I've read that Ireland has the greatest proportion of its land mass devoted to roading of any country in Europe. We don't need more roads: we need better-managed ones, and better demand management of traffic flows.

And re Moneen: I travel thru it every day between 8:10 and 8:45am - never a problem. Travel back most days between 5:30 and 6, far far less problems than there were back in 2007, when the RAB was still there.

I had a long winded post about the proportion of roads but the TL:DR version of it is, we're a nation of peasant smallholders and the number of boreens traversing the country wildly skews the total amount of roads in this country. Ironically, Davitt is the one-armed bandit in all this.

antoobrien

yeehaw wrote: »

Have a think about that one. I can imagine you posting this at any time of year. 'Why are they starting this in summer when all the tourists are here?'

In fairness the best time for roadworks is in the summer for several reasons, not least of which is the fact that there are longer days to do the work (meaning in theory that it should take less time). There are also technical issues, such as how the prevailing environmental factors affect the setting of new road dressings - frosts, heavy rain etc cause damage to the road under repair that show up later in the form of potholes, cracks etc.

If the tourist traffic etc is the issue, then we're back to the issue over the past few weeks of traffic management during these projects.

IMO the only time that road works should not be even considered in a normal year in Galway is race week & December. After that take into special events & the environmental factors.

Next year we'll have the ocean race back, so it'll be a bad idea to have road works planned within 2 months of that as they normally end up running very late in this country. Take a look at the work on the Athlone Dual Carriageway, the contra flows were supposed to be gone 3 weeks ago, they were still there on Sunday and look like taking a few weeks yet to finish off the work on the DC itself before moving to the junctions.

EyeSight

johnnyk66 wrote: »

Cant be much space for them if they're causing near misses.:eek:

most of the drivers on that roundabout drive very dangerously. its rare that i see people following the lines, which is very dangerous for a roundabout such as this one. also when drivers see they're in the wrong lane, they decide the best thing to do is speed across lanes in front of others. i'm shocked there's not an accident there every day

antoobrien

EyeSight wrote: »

most of the drivers on that roundabout drive very dangerously. its rare that i see people following the lines, which is very dangerous for a roundabout such as this one. also when drivers see they're in the wrong lane, they decide the best thing to do is speed across lanes in front of others. i'm shocked there's not an accident there every day

Sounds like a job for the traffic corps and a reason to change the licensing system. Lifetime licensing is a bit of a joke - my father got his license over 30 years ago - motoring has changed a lot since then.

Mrs OBumble

FlashD wrote: »

Why did they build roundabouts in the first place if they are all wrong?

Will they be changing the traffic lights in 15 years because those are all wrong too.

As I recall there were traffic lights in many places before the roundabouts.

RABs are fine, for medium volumes of equally-balanced traffic. They're not so fine once traffic gets heavier, or flows are not equal.

Also, traffic light technology has come on a lot in the last 15 years, including (mounts hobby-horse ) the ability to prioritise public transport.

PennyLane88

johnnyk66 wrote: »

Cant be much space for them if they're causing near misses.:eek:

If they are running red lights, they are gonna cause near misses due to oncoming traffic from other lanes.

Happens alot on the headford road as the traffic lights dont seem to be synchronised properly, so the light goes red quickly, letting only one or two cars go during peak times. When there is space for more of these cars behind the red lights, the drivers are getting fed up and so decide to drive on, ignoring red lights. TBH its no wonder it happens, especially when traffic lights there are only letting two cars go at a time.

Iwannahurl

JustMary wrote: »

RABs are fine, for medium volumes of equally-balanced traffic. They're not so fine once traffic gets heavier, or flows are not equal.

Also, traffic light technology has come on a lot in the last 15 years, including (mounts hobby-horse ) the ability to prioritise public transport.

Is there room on your hobby-horse for two?

I've been told to get off my high horse so often, y'see.

Galway's roundabouts were first installed to prioritise free flow of motorised traffic, with all other road users supposed to make do with the leftovers.

Community groups warned that it was a mistake to have so many roundabouts, or at the very least to design them in such a way as to marginalise other modes of travel. Such voices were ignored, naturally, since moving as many cars as possible as quickly as possible was the primary goal. However, once traffic reached saturation point on certain routes the consequences were inevitable.

Now the wheel has come full circle and it's the motorists who are complaining. The NRA is now emphasising traffic management and that's where the funding is going on the N6. About time too. Let's hope the new setup really is used to improve the level of service for bus users, cyclists and pedestrians. They deserve it.

antoobrien

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/43937/city-remains-divided-over-plans-to-scrap-roundabouts

Much of the criticism rests on motorists’ experience of the Moneenageisha junction. However Mr O’Neill said problems there will be addressed as part of the overall N6 works.

What's this - the city council hinting that the moneen lights are not as successful at routing traffic as some people on here would have us believe? (pity there isn't a smiley for incredulous).

Well I never, it couldn't be true:rolleyes:

Or is it just a cynical attempt at deflection from an organisation that described the replacements of the roundabout as a

“leap of faith” not a “leap in the dark”

Are the city council officials trying to undermine any remaining confidence the people have with them, or do they just expect us not to notice/care?

Taking a leap of faith implies (to me) that you don't know how things are going to go and you're praying that you're right and everything will work out, a leap in the dark means you're just stumbling about in the dark hoping to find an answer. Pretty much on tune for GCC - hear no evil see no evil, fingers on the same hand down know what the other one is doing and can't tell its a*se from its elbow.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/43937/city-remains-divided-over-plans-to-scrap-roundabouts

What's this - the city council hinting that the moneen lights are not as successful at routing traffic as some people on here would have us believe? (pity there isn't a smiley for incredulous).

Well I never, it couldn't be true:rolleyes:

Or is it just a cynical attempt at deflection from an organisation that described the replacements of the roundabout as a

Are the city council officials trying to undermine any remaining confidence the people have with them, or do they just expect us not to notice/care?

Taking a leap of faith implies (to me) that you don't know how things are going to go and you're praying that you're right and everything will work out, a leap in the dark means you're just stumbling about in the dark hoping to find an answer. Pretty much on tune for GCC - hear no evil see no evil, fingers on the same hand down know what the other one is doing and can't tell its a*se from its elbow.

Not necessarily.

Firstly, the leap of faith reference may be a request for trust, optimism and a bit of vision, as opposed to the suspicion, cynicism and short-term vested interest that tends to dominate.

Just speculating there, TBH, but the fact is that this initiative stems from the NRA, it's a national route, the objective is better traffic management, and there are funds available.

One set of "intelligent" traffic lights was never going to be a panacea. IMO Moneenageisha junction is better for pedestrians, cyclists and traffic flow on average (ie across all arms, not just those with traffic streams that used to dominate when the junction was a roundabout).

The GTU behaves towards everyone in the same way. Pedestrians, cyclists and probably bus users know all about it. Now it seem we're entering a new era. Say goodbye to the roundabouts you love -- their days are numbered.





EDIT: the reference to the decision not being a "leap in the dark" is a comment on the fact that the proposals are evidence-based, IMO.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/43937/city-remains-divided-over-plans-to-scrap-roundabouts

What's this - the city council hinting that the moneen lights are not as successful at routing traffic as some people on here would have us believe? (pity there isn't a smiley for incredulous).

Well I never, it couldn't be true:rolleyes:

This is not new News. Officials admitted the same at public meeting last June for Briarhill (Lynch Roundabout). What City Manager is "hinting" at: College Rd/Lough Atalia lights and Moneen lights are not linked up.

schween

I clearly live in a different Galway to some others here. I pass through Moneen every morning at around 8.30AM with a wait of maybe a few minutes.

If one more person writes..."What an outrage!" or "What a disgrace!" I might have a fit of laughter! Stop being so outraged, it's not healthy, like traffic!

I am glad the RABs are being dumped, hate them! One thing people seem to forget is the Traffic Management Centre. I think a human actually changing lights as needed would help hugely! It's really inefficient when you have large volumes of traffic being held up by relatively small amounts coming from other RAB entrances.

But, I observe with caution, this is the same council that seems to make a circus of everything!

Iwannahurl

I do think some scepticism is justified.

However, the status quo is not an option. Anyone who thinks that things are better left as they are is either not thinking rationally or else is just willing to wait ten painful years for a bypass to fix everything. Sounds like a heart patient too apathetic and addicted to want to exercise or give up smoking!

Some people's alternative proposal of putting a Garda on every roundabout during "rush" hour is plain daft. Is that what we've come to? Tackle Galway's crazy 21st century traffic by taking us back to the 1960s?

antoobrien

schween wrote: »

One thing people seem to forget is the Traffic Management Centre.

I'm very skeptical about the benefit of this, having seen it in operation in Dublin on a daily basis (I've witnessed Dublin traffic for almost 6 years - it's a lot better than Galway's was before I left btw). On any number of roads at rush hour there are long queues due to the signalling arrangement chosen by the people monitoring it on camera.

Dublin City FM operate a radio show 7-10am & 4-7pm out of the traffic control center and from listening to it they can't see an awful lot. They seem to get more useful information from people sitting in their cars calling an texting in.

If you're ever in Dublin at these hours 103.2 FM is a must.

I suggest before you make up your minds about this system based on what city officials tell us you listen in - it's available on the web.

FlashD

I've read all the posts and i'm not swayed.

Roundabouts or traffic lights, neither will make a difference, the council just want to be seen to be doing something.

If the council were serious about fixing about Galway's traffic then they shouldn't be looking any further then a light rail system. Cost a bomb but that's the long term thinking that's needed not these waste of money band aid exercises.

...as for the comments of being cynical, if there was more cynicism in the country over the last 10 years then the country might be in a better place.

The majority aren't always right.

emptybladder

antoobrien wrote: »

On any number of roads at rush hour there are long queues due to the signalling arrangement chosen by the people monitoring it on camera.

I think there's a bit of confusion on the management centre ... the junctions will effectively 'talk' to each other and know when a line of cars is waiting. The centre is manned ONLY for when a manual override may be needed.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

I'm very skeptical about the benefit of this, having seen it in operation in Dublin on a daily basis (I've witnessed Dublin traffic for almost 6 years - it's a lot better than Galway's was before I left btw). On any number of roads at rush hour there are long queues due to the signalling arrangement chosen by the people monitoring it on camera.

Dublin City FM operate a radio show 7-10am & 4-7pm out of the traffic control center and from listening to it they can't see an awful lot. They seem to get more useful information from people sitting in their cars calling an texting in.

If you're ever in Dublin at these hours 103.2 FM is a must.

I suggest before you make up your minds about this system based on what city officials tell us you listen in - it's available on the web.

I wouldn't rely on a radio station for the kind of information needed to base traffic management and transportation policies on.

Galway Bay FM was recently whipping up hysteria against the proposed conversion of roundabouts to signals. Just try getting the same amount of airtime for discussion of issues relating to the facilitation of non motorised transport.

Iwannahurl

FlashD wrote: »

I've read all the posts and i'm not swayed.

Roundabouts or traffic lights, neither will make a difference, the council just want to be seen to be doing something.

If the council were serious about fixing about Galway's traffic then they shouldn't be looking any further then a light rail system. Cost a bomb but that's the long term thinking that's needed not these waste of money band aid exercises.

...as for the comments of being cynical, if there was more cynicism in the country over the last 10 years then the country might be in a better place.

The majority aren't always right.

There is something in what you say.

TBH I don't know whether light rail could be made to work. Buses have already proven their worth, eg the highly successful #9 route and Park & Ride.

The N6 junctions upgrade and associated AUTC will make a positive difference, one hopes.

However, the ultimate problem is that there are too many cars competing for space in a finite road network. There are several inter-related reasons for such indisputably excessive car use, but there is no doubt that a serious reduction in car use cannot be achieved without a major shift to other transport modes.

Reliable and efficient public transport -- especially buses in the short to medium term -- would be best suited to achieving the required modal shift. There is also significant potential in walking and cycling, as the Public Transport Feasibility Study has shown.

Roundabouts represent a significant barrier to non car based travel throughout the city. Signalising key roundabouts, and altering others to improve safety and convenience, will go some way towards redressing the imbalance. But you're right, such changes are not a panacea.

Iwannahurl

emptybladder wrote: »

I think there's a bit of confusion on the management centre ... the junctions will effectively 'talk' to each other and know when a line of cars is waiting. The centre is manned ONLY for when a manual override may be needed.

An AUTC can also accommodate bus priority measures.

Any idea whether there are any plans for such?

emptybladder

Iwannahurl wrote: »

An AUTC can also accommodate bus priority measures.

Any idea whether there are any plans for such?

Apparently so. However, what GCC say they will do and the system (which is being specced at the moment) they roll out could be vastly different based on past experience

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I wouldn't rely on a radio station for the kind of information needed to base traffic management and transportation policies on.

I'm not saying we should base policy on it, I'm just stating the reason for my skepticism. From what I hear and see in Dublin every day it (the control center they have) is not doing much to help.

But seriously would you dismiss a radio show that is broadcast from the control center, reporting what people on the ground are seeing that the cameras and any automatic systems can't if it was backing up your claims?

I think not.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

I'm not saying we should base policy on it, I'm just stating the reason for my skepticism. From what I hear and see in Dublin every day it (the control center they have) is not doing much to help.

But seriously would you dismiss a radio show that is broadcast from the control center, reporting what people on the ground are seeing that the cameras and any automatic systems can't if it was backing up your claims?

I think not.

Depends on the "people" perhaps? Who are they?