Quality chopping board and knife!

cormie

Hi,
Just looking for suggestions on a quality, life lasting chopping board that will be used for fruit, veg, herbs etc. I never prepare animal products so meat bacteria etc won't be a problem. As far as I'm aware, in this case, I'm best off with a wooden board, hardwood I guess. I don't care about staining from beetroot or anything like that, as long as I can keep it clean and it doesn't damage any knife I use on it, making both the board and knife last a lifetime.

I also need a decent knife, I've heard it's best to find one knife and one knife only that you feel comfortable with. If this is the case, any recommendations on a brilliant knife that will do everything I need it to with all kinds of veg from slicing a soft tomato to a solid butternut squash?

Any feedback appreciated in terms of brands or specific knives and boards and where to get them

joolsveer

I have a few boards and I find I prefer a bamboo one which I bought with a Chinese style chopper. I also have rubberwood ones which do not mark easily. I have a preference for wooden boards and wooden utensils. I do eat dead animal products though.

cormie

Thanks for the reply

Never considered bamboo, have you any hardwood boards to compare to? I hear teak is amongst the best wood for a chopping board?

I know the Japanese have their own style of wood saw, is it the same with Chinese and food knives?

Gee_G

I don't have any info on chopping boards but I bought a fantastic knife off my butcher last year and it is fantastic! Glides through everything and I am going to go back to him to get a carving knife for Christmas!You should try your local butcher!

cormie

Thanks for the suggestion, is there a brand name on that knife at all or any suggestions on brands or where to get a decent one?

Gee_G

I will get back to you on that!

cormie

Thanks

Gee_G

Victorinox is the make of the knife and from looking at pics on the net I think its a "boning knife". But I use it for everything, its great!

cormie

Thanks for that

This one here? http://cookshop.ie/shop/victorinox-butchers-knives/477-victorinox-boning-knife-5-inch-15-cm.html

I know the brand from Swiss Army knives, €20 is cheaper than I thought for a high quality knife though!

Gee_G

Its similar to that one except the blade on mine goes up at an angle, cant see the picture there on that website.

cormie

Thanks Having a little Google and it appears "Global" is a well respected brand and Wusthof aswell, this is the brand Gordan Ramsay uses so I guess that says something! Now to check out the prices

Ddad

For a keen home cook I'd agree on a victorinox knife. I've had my big chefs knife for 10 years and it's still going well.I'd say get a paring knife and a larger knife. The paring knives are only 3-4 quid and the serrated edge ones don't need sharpening. I'd pick a small chefs knife for home use; about 6-8 inch blade. The boning knife would't be great for the rocking motion of chopping. While I was at it I'd buy a good knife sharpener as a steel needs proper technique to be effective. Chantry knife sharpeners are brilliant and a lifetime job. A tad expenisive but cheaper than dealing with blunt knives. Don't get me started on blunt knives:mad:.

As for the chopping board get a nice BIG hardwood one as it gives you loads of room to work on. Every once in a while salt it overnight and that'll deoderise it and disinfect it.

I'd expect to get the lot for aroun 50 quid and I'd expect to be using them all in 10 years time +

Ddad

Sorry, you posted while I was typing the last post. Global are brilliant but pricey (I've three of them; a bit of a fan). Wusthof and very good but I find them heavy and a bit of overkill for home use. The globals are really well balanced and light.

Beware of cheap Globals though. There are loads of dodgy knock offs on the interweb.

The globals have a different angle on the edge of the blade and should be sharpened in a specific way to keep them honed.

On both knives your stepping up quiet a bit on price from the victorinox.

cormie

Thanks again for the advice With regards price, I'm only young at the moment so will get plenty of use from a high quality knife so I wouldn't mind spending a bit more. This looks like it's the cream of the crop: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wusthof-Classic-Piece-Knife-Price/dp/B000SNZZAE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1315911973&sr=8-2

:eek:

Ddad

Yowzah! That is an expesive set of knives. I'm not denigrating them; I'd say they're great I'll be honest I wouldn't bother getting a set like that to start. I'd buy one really good chefs knife one paring and maybe a bread knife and see from there. That's be a third of the price as well.I bought some of mine on sale in BTs. They tended to have good new years sales with great value.

I'd also recommend getting a magnetic knife holder for the wall. It keeps the knives hygenic (I don't like blocks- too hard to keep hygenically clean) if they are nice knives they are nice to look at. They become a feature. Maybe you should have a look at Kyocera ceramic knives too. They are razor; and I mean razor sharp, and keep their edge for a very long time. They are brittle though; I've been careful with mine and I have it four years and it still has a lovely edge. They are very popular among sushi chefs in Japan.

I have about twenty knives and to be honest 6-7 get day to day use. The parers get rotated in and out of the dishwasher so I have five of those. The rest are for specialised jobs that rarely crop up for the ordinary home cook; filleting, boning etc. While we're on the subject though I would highly recommend getting a few good peelers (kuhn rikon) and at least one good tongs (OXO goodgrips). They are indispensable once you get them and last ages. The peelers look flimsy but are very sharp and suprisingly robust.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kyocera-White-Ceramic-Slicing-Knife/dp/B000ESJGZS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315927573&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kuhn-Rikon-Original-Swiss-Peeler/dp/B000WIYCWW/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1315927612&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/OXO-Good-Grips-Locking-Tongs/dp/B00004OCK1/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1315927690&sr=1-1

Deise Musashi

I am biased towards Japanese kitchen knives, but Wusthof, Shun, Henckels etc. are all good as well.

For a chopping board check out TK Maxx and get an End Grain Board, never leave it soaking in water, and give it some mineral oil every so often and she'll last forever.

To buy knives I like the following sites.


http://www.chefknivestogo.com/

http://japanesechefsknife.com/products.html

http://www.heinnie.com/

http://www.knivesshipfree.com/

http://www.ltspecpro.com/

http://www.dlttrading.com/

http://newgraham.com/store/

http://www.knifecenter.com/

http://www.agrussell.com/



Try to handle or use some knives to see what you like in a knife. Personally the heavy guard on a knife that covers the heel of the blade annoys me no end!

cormie

Thanks for the reply Would love to get a decent sized chopping board so food isn't falling off it and I have plenty of room for plenty of veg, although my own countertop isn't the biggest itself.

I'm not too sure what you mean about the heavy guard?

I'm thinking I might just get maybe one really decent knife, maybe the wusthof chefs knife that's in that set I linked to, by itself it's about €110 I think, unless I decide to go crazy and get the whole set on a whim The problem with just buying one, is trying to keep it somewhere safe, if I got a set I'd have a decent block to keep it in.

Deise Musashi

Look at the guard on this knife



Compared to the heel of the blade on a Japanese knife



The heavy guard/bolster means that over time and sharpening the top knife can develop a hollow recurve area just in front of that guard. The japanese blade can be sharpened full length and kept even. I also like the generally thinner stock and higher hardness of the Japanese blades.

I prefer to buy individual knives rather than sets, a block like this can be used to store assorted knives, or use edge guards.

http://www.jmldirect.com/N%C3%BCdo-Knife-Block-PN4422/






http://www.edenwebshops.co.uk/en/pt/-wusthof-blade-guard-for-chef-s-knives.htm


The solid VG-10 Eden knives get good reviews, like this Santoku for £30 sterling. It's an 8 inch knife in a great steel.



I really like my Hattori and Misono UX10, bit pricier though!





Good luck picking a new knife

cormie

Thanks a lot for the suggestions, that block definitely looks slick, but I've always associated JML with cheap supermarket gadget type stuff, do you think it would be up to par to safely store such expensive knives? Wusthof actually have a similar looking one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wusthof-Knife-block-knives-stored/dp/B0009NMVUK but note the price difference :eek: £130 more!! I'd just be afraid the bristles on the JML one might damage the blade in some way, or maybe the hold isn't enough and the tip of the knife will be supporting the weight of the rest? I wonder are the materials used pretty much the same and the Wusthof name just adds the £130?

Thanks for the tip about the guard aswell, the Classic IKON Wusthof set has overcome this problem by getting rid of the guard so that's still a strong contender for me.

Can somebody explain what the top comment is talking about in this video here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syvvxx3eGpI Ramsay is saying about the steel to sharpen it, but the top comment, with over 60 thumbs up, I'm not sure if it's agreeing or disagreeing with him? I imagine any steel would do the job and it doesn't have to be specific to the knife set you use? Any idea where I'd pick up the "right" kind of steel rod to sharpen with?

Also, if you get the right frame around 1:06 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiAmiRaiB9w&feature=relmfu, you'll see the knife he's using is 4596/20, is this a good size for my main knife do you think? There's other sizes too but I wouldn't be sure which would be best suitable.

Deise Musashi

The Hattori Santoku above is an 8inch/20cm knife. I like that for most general kitchen work, the lower Misono Gyuto is ten inch and works great for slicing large joints or whenever I want a little more reach. Either size is good and mainly down to personal preference.

The Santoku has a little more belly for rocking and chopping cuts, the Gyuto has more point for piercing cuts. (Gyuto means literally "Cow Sword")

I also use the petty size as a paring knife, and a good bread knife never goes astray. A little Mora Flexi knife often gets used as a fillet or boning knife as well.

A good set starting out is a parer, main chef knife and a bread knife. More specialised stuff like boners and slicers can come later as they are not essential, but handy to have when needed.

The JML block I haven't used, but it's filled with plastic rods. They will not damage your knife, but might get cut up by your knife

I'm planning on making a larger box and filling it with bamboo skewers, can be tipped out for cleaning. I would prefer a large magnetic block, but small kids in the house...

I hate the way Ramsay whacks his knife on the steel, and does uneven numbers of strokes per side, and doesn't maintain an angle :mad:

A steel is used to realign or straighten an edge. A couple of strokes per side does it. A smooth steel for preferance, the ridged steels are like a file and leave big scratchs that can be stress risers and lead to chipping.

The stainless rod out of a hydraulic shock makes a good steel, next best is smooth borosilicate glass, smooth ceramics, ridged ceramics and last diamond coated steels.

Diamond coated are sharpening steels, they will remove metal, probably too well. They can leave softer kitchen knives looking like boning knives fairly quickly. They have their uses but generally I would advise against them. Steeling will refresh an edge for quite a while but eventually they need to be resharpened. Steeling little and often might mean sharpening every six months or thereabouts depending on the knife and it's user.

I get steels from Eden and Heinnies.

http://www.edenwebshops.co.uk/en/pt/-eden-quality-ceramic-sharpening-rod.htm



http://www.heinnie.com/Accessories/Sharpeners/Fallkniven-Sharpeners/Fallkniven-Shapreners-DiamondCeramic-Rods/p-93-370-212-419/



Chefsknivestogo have some nice ones as well, like the Idahone I got with an Edge-Pro.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/sharpening-steels.html

Padraig Mor

Cormie,

You might be interested in this set: 4 Wusthof Classic IKON knives (chef, bread, carving, paring) for €222 delivered - the cheap price (!) is due to "minor optical faults" with the handles, i.e. they are seconds, but the blades are fine.

Alternatively, Brown Thomas are doing sets of Wusthof Classics or Grand Prix (same blades as IKON series, bolster excepted) for €200. Includes 5 knives, steel and wood block. I've looked and couldn't beat that price online.

cormie

Thanks a lot for that Padraig, the cookplanet deal sounds good, but it also mentions "the handles have small unevenness" which might be a problem with the general handling and use of the knife I wonder?

I checked the brown thomas website and the prices are far higher than what you can get the same for on amazon, for the Ikon series anyway, I think I'd prefer to spend a little extra to get the right one rather than wanting to upgrade again in future so maybe I should just go with the Ikon for now..

Are the Wusthof Ikon linked to on cookplanet different to Wusthof Classic Ikon?

So to narrow it down, I think I'd be interested in:

Wusthof Classic Ikon 4596/20 or similar chefs knife
Knife Block or Magnet (I guess the JML one might suffice unless a magnet would be much better?)
Smooth Steel Rod

How would I know where to get the right hydraulic steel rod thingy?

Deise, are you saying the other ceramic ones etc you linked to aren't really up to par for a high quality knife?

Deise Musashi

The ceramics are great for all good quality knives including very hard Japanese knives, like up to 65Rc hard!

The smooth steel would be better as it would purely be aligning with very little abrasion. It won't make any difference to most people, unless you are stropping your kitchen knives with 1 micron or smaller abrasives. Then it makes no sense to rub it on a 1400 grit abrasive steel and ruin that level of finish.

That's for OCD and obsessive people though. A 1400 grit finish or even a 600 grit will cut very well for most everybody, and gives a little "tooth" to the edge that can feel better than highly polished edges, depending on what's being cut.

A standard knife block ridged steel will chip very hard knives and be overly coarse for most knives. Unless it's just some lump you usee cutting frozen stuff apart I'd avoid cheap ridged steel altogether.

The unglazed portion on the bottom of a ceramic mug would be better than nothing. If available from a breakers yard or something, a largish diameter hydraulic shock would be super, but not a necessity.

In magnetic blocks I prefer the ones covered with wood rather than bare magnet against steel. I've seen rust where the magnetic strips make contact if knives are put up wet. Maybe some old hard drive magnets and a plastic chopping board would do?

Buy quality and buy once (or start collecting knives like me :rolleyes: ), try to handle the knife if possible, even if you buy online. Your ideal knife may turn out not to suit you when handled, balance and hand size differ.

cormie

Wow, this is beginning to sound very very complicated! You sound like you know your stuff about knives for sure

I'm currently using a regular dinner knife to cut everything, I don't even use a chopping board most of the time, just cut up and use my thumb for control and as a barrier, I don't think I can use the same methods with these knives or I wouldn't keep my thumb very long

So if I'm going for a Wusthof knife or knife set, you think the JML block would be ok? I got a bit confused with the talk on the sharpening rods so if there's any chance you could link me to a quality one that will last a life time, suit all quality knives I use with it and that will ship to Ireland for an affordable price, I'd really appreciate it as I'm a bit lost on the rods at the mo

What do you reckon about the deals Padraig linked to?

Deise Musashi

just cut up and use my thumb for control and as a barrier

End grain chopping board or you'll cut yourself, badly! It should look like this kind of thing.



For a cheap ceramic steel I'd look at these.

http://www.edenwebshops.co.uk/en/pt/-eden-quality-ceramic-sharpening-rod.htm

http://www.heinnie.com/Accessories/Sharpeners/Fallkniven-Sharpeners/Fallkniven-Shapreners-DiamondCeramic-Rods/p-93-370-212-419/

Or...you could get a crock stick sharpener like the Spyderco Sharpmaker, bit more money but does a good job of sharpening and touching up your knives.

http://www.heinnie.com/Accessories/Sharpeners/Spyderco-Sharpeners/Spyderco-Sharpeners-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker/p-93-370-217-5691/




I'm not a fan of sets generally, I like to mix and match. If you like the Wusthof Chef get that first and get a feel for it.
Parers are easy, Victorinox do great ones for cheap!
Do you need a slicer? A good bread knife will do the job, though I did get a Watanabe Sashimi knife in the end.
Bread knife, Mac are considered one of the better ones.

cormie

Thanks again

ah, I must have got a bit mixed up, when you linked to them rods before, and when I saw diamond, I immediately thought they were the ones you weren't recommending previously, saying that diamond would probably remove metal too well, I also thought ceramic type was different to just a steel one. So you reckon the one here: http://www.heinnie.com/Accessories/Sharpeners/Fallkniven-Sharpeners/Fallkniven-Shapreners-DiamondCeramic-Rods/p-93-370-212-419/ would be perfect for the wusthof knife and not damage it or anything like that? Should I go for the C or D?

Deise Musashi

I have them both but would go with the C eramic

The diamond one isn't as coarse as some, but will cause more wear than you need on any knife.

A new knife should be sharp, maintain it with the ceramic "steel" and it will stay sharp until the very edge gets worn too much to be refreshed any more by just steeling.

The edge then needs to be reset using abrasive stones, diamond plates, oil or waterstones...whatever method works.

For a home cook making a couple of meals a day, this time period can be six months or more depending on how you use your knife, and how hard the knife steel is. Slicing or chopping, using end grain or poly cutting boards over glass or tile :eek:

I would expect a Wusthoff to come reasonably sharp out the box and with a light steeling prior to or after each use will probably go around six months between sharpenings. Harder knives hold longer, but are harder to sharpen and are more likely to chip out than roll the edge if abused.

This is a good video explaining lots of these points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVCM5BfeA8c

cormie

Thanks again! That video was indeed very helpful and I understand a good bit more now

So, get the block, get the honer, get the blades, hone regularly and every year or so get them sharpened professionally (know anywhere in Dublin that does this?)

So the shopping list should be:

Wusthof knife/knives
Block
honer
Maple/Teak chopping board or laminated bamboo

and I should be set to chop a tomato

Deise Musashi

I'd get the knives, chopping board, ceramic steel and storage solution.

If you have a cheapo knife block your new knives will probably fit into it, or score one in a second hand shop? Make heavy cardboard blade guards and store them in a drawer, until you can get a magnetic rack or a decent block.
Lidl often do a version of the JML one also.

Check TK Maxx for cutting boards and blocks as well, good shop for cooking stuff in general.

If you can't find a sharpener in Dublin, learn to do it for yourself?

I wrote a how-to in the hunting forum, link if your having trouble sleeping you can read the monster thing!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72714711

If your stuck, drop me a PM and I can talk you through it, or send me your knife and I can sharpen it up for you.
I use...you'll see in that thread some of my sharpening kit :rolleyes:
I have a fair bit of kit, and I'm in the process of ordering some Chosera stones from Chef knives to go at the minute (why I'm still up after an evening shift )

Anything else I can help with, feel free to ask here or PM.

cormie

Thanks again for that and for the offer to do the sharpening Had a look at your post, that's certainly a comprehensive kit you have! Don't think I'd take on doing it myself for fear of messing up! Have done chisels myself and they can be tricky enough to get right so I imagine working with a much bigger and curved surface would be even more difficult.

I know they probably aren't up to par for what I'm after but I just saw IKEA do most of what I'm after:

http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/70148989/
http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/10066670/

they do chopping boards too but I can't see a maple or teak one anywhere which I'd like to get.

Again, I'm not trying to go cheap here, I'd want to buy each part once and once only so I may aswell just get the quality products now rather than having to replace inferior ones down the line. I wonder would the JML block be up for a lifetime job or would I be better off spending the money on a wood covered magnetic block, or just a general block. Same with the honer, may aswell get one that will put the knife in as little risk as possible and do a decent job on it, so I guess the previous linked to ones would be much better than ikea options.

Deise Musashi

The block looks grand if the knives will fit in it, hard to judge the size of the slots from a picture. It says it will hold all Ikea knives bar the cleaver so should be big enough for most knives.

That steel will work, but being diamond it'll grind off more than realign the edge. The grit is also coarser than ceramic, so will give a toothier edge, not so bad as long as you've a light touch and don't go overboard

A bog standard poly board is better than nothing until you can come across a decent wooden board. When you do get a wooden board, keep it clean and give it a wipe of mineral oil every so often to feed it.

Again from Ikea, these look pretty good.

http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/30167003/



combined with this...

http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/40082918/



http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/00046786/



And the open ended design of the knife block will help keep it clean and not trap crumbs.