Quality chopping board and knife!

billybudd

If you live in Dublin then go to sweeney orourkes on pearse street, they will have what you are looking for and you will be abe to handle different knives and find one that suits you which is important as you will want to feel comfortable with a proffesional knife.

cormie

Thanks again guys! I saw the ceramic one from IKEA but just assumed as it's almost half the price of the other one, it would be inferior quality? Would the C one on the other site we looked at be much better I wonder (it will cost me over 4x the price) - again, if it's a case where a cheaper one will damage a very expensive set of knives, I'd definitely put in a few more quid to get the right honer.

Might be best to just get the JML block, think it looks a bit fancier too and will suit the knives better and will fit anything

I won't be using the knives on anything until I get the right board so I might pop up to TK max soon and try find a good maple or teak board. I remember in woodturning, we used to use just a drop of olive oil I think it was to oil bowls and things we just turned, can the same be used for the boards I wonder?

Thanks for the suggestion of sweeney's, I'd just be afraid to go in and everything be way more expensive than online or end up buying something unsuitable

sealgaire

joolsveer wrote: »

I have a few boards and I find I prefer a bamboo one which I bought with a Chinese style chopper. I also have rubberwood ones which do not mark easily. I have a preference for wooden boards and wooden utensils. I do eat dead animal products though.

dead animal products . . . . . . . jesus

billybudd

cormie wrote: »

Thanks again guys! I saw the ceramic one from IKEA but just assumed as it's almost half the price of the other one, it would be inferior quality? Would the C one on the other site we looked at be much better I wonder (it will cost me over 4x the price) - again, if it's a case where a cheaper one will damage a very expensive set of knives, I'd definitely put in a few more quid to get the right honer.

Might be best to just get the JML block, think it looks a bit fancier too and will suit the knives better and will fit anything

I won't be using the knives on anything until I get the right board so I might pop up to TK max soon and try find a good maple or teak board. I remember in woodturning, we used to use just a drop of olive oil I think it was to oil bowls and things we just turned, can the same be used for the boards I wonder?

Thanks for the suggestion of sweeney's, I'd just be afraid to go in and everything be way more expensive than online or end up buying something unsuitable

Just go in and see which one suits your hands better and then buy that one online :0)

Deise Musashi

Would the C one on the other site we looked at be much better I wonder (it will cost me over 4x the price)

Ceramic is much of a muchness, only difference is generally in the surface finish affecting the grit level. The Spyderco hones for Sharpmaker are the same synthetic sapphire in fine and ultra-fine. The difference is in the surface treatment.

I use a leather strop loaded with micron grit polishing compound rather than steeling, but I can sharpen down to .25 micron diamond honing paste used for straight razors.
At that level of polish even a glass rod is too coarse and a polished steel is probably too soft, some of my knives are 63-65Rockwell and might cut into a non hardened rod.
For everyday kitchen use 600 grit is plenty and a good ceramic is hard enough even for stuff like laminated ZDP-189 blades, so your covered even if you ever get into exotic steel

If the cheap rod is too coarse you can sand it with fine wet and dry paper, but for most purposes it'll be grand.

I wouldn't use olive oil or any food oil on boards, they get rancid and gummy.
Camelia oil is the traditional oil for samurai swords and such, non toxic and light.
Honestly I use plain white mineral oil on good carbon steel knives, my cutting board and any exposed metal I want to prevent corrosion on. It's non-toxic, tasteless and cheap. I used it on my children when they were babies as it doesn't have the scents that baby oil has. That Ikea board oil is mineral oil, also available in any pharmacy.

Handle the knives in Sweeneys, Brown Thomas, friends houses etc. Get an idea of what you like. I always used 8" knives, but lately find myself using a 10" Gyuto much more. You may prefer a 6" or 4" over a longer knife, a heavier or lighter handle, artificial or wooden handles etc.

I almost forgot also, have a look on Nisbets.ie, handy site for kitchen stuff.

Just for an example, here's a Spyderco pen knife in VG-10 steel I sharpened at 20 degrees per side and stropped at 1 micron.



and this is a hair I shaved or split with that edge without going through, like a block plane



That's the kind of geometry I'd go for on a kitchen knife, sharp but tough enough for general work. On Japanese blades or slicers I'd go down to maybe 15-17 degrees and I know guys going 7 degrees per side and adding a 10 degree micro bevel for insane edges!

Ever see a guy shave with a kitchen knife?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmPj4BsScRc

cormie

Thanks again for all that, it's certainly a technical field

Will probably just go for the more expensive ceramic one so.

I popped into TK Max in carrickmines today and there wasn't much in terms of chopping boards. The best seemed to be an acacia one, around 25eur. Then there were a few 12eur bamboo ones too I think, but none were as big as I wanted. They didn't have any blocks.

cormie

Had a look in a different TK Max and still nothing suitable in chopping boards I'm afraid. I did see a knife block very similar to the jml one, in horrible colours and the quality didn't look too good to be honest, the bristles looked a bit hard, and also like you'd need a few knives in it to get the proper hold. Maybe the IKEA one above would be best.

Is Sweeney O'Rourke an actual shop you can just have a browse around in or an office and you have to buzz in and everything. Their website doesn't seem to have much in terms of chopping boards and knives.

Deise Musashi

I've never been to Sweeney's so I don't know. No harm in asking though

pts

IKEA will be selling their Nordby butcher's block between 31/10/11 and 06/11/11 for €7.99.
It's solid oak, 39cm x 26cm 5cm thick.



For more info see: http://onlinecatalogue.ikea.com/IE/en/2012/IKEA_Catalogue/ (2nd page)

cormie

Thanks for that I see they have a beech one aswell, so oak and beech both hardwoods, they look like pretty good value but I'm just not sure if they will be big enough!

cormie

Just a quick bump here, somebody mentioned they were looking for a "jamie oliver vegetable" knife, without looking it up, I'm guessing it's probably expensive enough given the popular chef's endorsement, but I wonder what the quality of it would be like and could you get a much better one? Would a Wusthof Classic Ikon 4596/20 or similar chefs knife be amongst the best to use for vegetables in general?

Deise Musashi

Jamie Oliver's knife range seems to be made by Bourgeat/Matfer?

German made, high carbon stainless and not over expensive. I really dislike the oversized bolster that seems to have been included as a style thing to make these different to every other Chef's knives?

Wusthoff, Victorinox Fibrox, Henckels et. al. are proven performers in commercial kitchens.

I like an Usuba for veg. They can be had cheaply enough as well.

http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product/719218/Saku-Hocho-Usuba-vegetable-knife-with-sheath.htm

cormie

Hehe, thanks again Deise! Wonder would there be anywhere around Dublin I could pick one up before Sunday at all? Just saw Jamie demonstrating his knives on youtube, set looks ok I guess, but the bolster would mean uneven sharpening over time if I've learned anything from yourself

The Usuba looks interesting anyway, couldn't tell from the link, but is the Usuba another name for a vegetable specific knife, or is it the brand itself?

EDIT: Ah, upon further reading, I see it means "Vegetable knife"

Deise Musashi

Nisbets.ie have next day delivery?

They stock Tsuki and Global Usuba and Santoku knives.

Other than that you could order from Dictum or Japanesechefknife and have a good knife for next year

http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/category/Scharf-und-gut-3530_3541.htm

http://japanesechefsknife.com/products.html

cormie

Thanks again! I actually took a trip into Sweeney O'Rourkes for the first time and believe I got quite a good deal, I only made it 10 minutes before closing so had to rush a little. They only deal in one brand of knife but I was glad to see that one brand was Wusthof He picked out two for me, one was the classic ikon 4176 Santoku, at 83+VAT, and the other was 59+VAT, he said he could knock a bit off and when I asked what's the best price he could do on the Ikon, he said 80 including VAT so I said I'd go with that, not knowing how much it costs on the likes of amazon, but looking now, I believe I got a great deal: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wusthof-Classic-Ikon-Santoku-Knife/dp/B000WW45NY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324598182&sr=8-1



Felt a few different ones and the weight of the Ikon makes it feel pretty good so hopefully it will get good use!

Deise Musashi

Looks like you got a bargain alright!

A nice knife and more importantly it feels good to you. Well wear and mind your fingers, I find Wusthoff to be consistently sharp and hard

If you ever need it resharpened drop me a line, but that should be six months to a year down the line Strop it (or use a ceramic steel) when it starts to lose it's edge and the performance should come back for a good long while, before it needs actual sharpening.

End grain wooden or poly chopping boards only, hand wash and dry, never cut on glass, tile, ceramic, slate or steel!

That's a lifetime investment right there, happy meals!

cormie

Thanks again, the one I got is actually a gift for the person who mentioned the Jamie Oliver one, hopefully this is a good step up from that!

When you mention end grain, do you mean something like this:


where there appears to be lots of different pieces of wood shaped together vertically as opposed to this: http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/images/products/kraftig-chopping-board__0090022_PE223370_S4.JPG

which looks like it could have just been sliced from one piece?

What does strop mean? Is that keeping it sharp with ceramic?

Will definitely keep you in mind for a resharpening! Thanks again!

Deise Musashi

Yep, end grain means you are cutting into the growth rings rather than across them, as you would with a length of plank type board.

The lots of little blocks looking ones are better, don't leave them wet as the glue goes and you have play blocks for the kids

Stropping is usually done on leather, drawing the edge back along the surface so you don't cut in. Paper, mylar etc. can be used as strops, but an old belt on a bit of wood works well with a little autosol. This video from 2:30 on has my strops on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWYrqFsonSE

Ceramic is a little more abrasive, but very good for straightening and refreshing an edge between sharpenings.

Have a good Christmas!

cormie

Thanks a lot, just watching your video now, there's a lot more to a knife than I had ever thought

Happy Christmas!

cormie

Just another bit of news on this.

Went into Sweeney O'Rourkes today and priced the first Classic Ikon 6 knife and block set I linked to in this thread, it's on Amazon for £440, they are charging about €477 including 23% VAT. That's a better price than amazon, again!

While I was in there, I picked up an end grain, rubberwood chopping board, it was only 17eur+VAT so I'm not too sure if the quality is good? I know it's a hardwood and it's end grain too, so ticks them boxes, but is Rubberwood a good or bad chopping block in general I wonder? This is the exact one: http://www.the-emporium.co.uk/product-detail/123708/zodiac-naturals-chopping-board-naten19

I was also in IKEA today and saw the ceramic rod, didn't pick it up as I've no proper knives yet though.

Do you think that chopping block, ikea ceramic rod, ikea oil and a classic ikon set for 477eur would be a good combination, or should I be treating such expensive knives with better accessories? Can't afford it but nice to know there's a cheaper than amazon solution a 20 minute drive away

cnocbui

This is the best sharpener I have used that I would recommend to a newbie to the art:

http://www.seriouscookware.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=7

It removes material in an easily controlled manner and is far less brutal than a traditional 'steel'. Combined with this to hone an edge and you would be set: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Remos-sharpening-stone-hard-Arkansas/dp/B00504I5EE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325614972&sr=8-1

Deise Musashi

If I was spending €400 I would look at getting a large Chef's knife and a parer, maybe a bread knife/slicer. I dislike those sets as you get knives you don't need or want. The Wusthoff are good knives, if the set is something you like then go for it.

The rubberwood board is good and will do you fine for years

That, the ceramic steel and the mineral oil are good for any knives, you could pay more and not do any better.

I don't like the pull through carbide type sharpeners at all, oil stones are good but take a bit of paractice to get good at.

I would be inclined to get one good main knife and add to it as funds allow. At least you can go in and get a feel for different sets in the shop before plonking down cash for a knife.

cormie

Thanks again Deise and thanks for the tip too cnocbui. I seem to have it in my head that them pull through sharpeners are slightly gimicky and don't do as good a job as a proper sharpening would? I don't know why, just I've worked with chisels and things before and it's very hard to get a proper sharpen, but you still see people do it the hard way. Would a pull through be any comparison I wonder?

Glad to know the rod, board and oil will be good for anything. It's a decent size and cheap enough. So a little bit of oil from time to time and then salt too for the board.

Good point about the knife set, there are a few knives I probably wouldn't use much.

What would a chefs knife be used for that a vegetable knife wouldn't be used for, remember, it will be 99% fruit and veg I'll be using a knife for Would a parer and vegetable knife suit me for 99% of cuts I wonder?

Seaneh

cormie wrote: »

I also need a decent knife, I've heard it's best to find one knife and one knife only that you feel comfortable with. If this is the case, any recommendations on a brilliant knife that will do everything I need it to with all kinds of veg from slicing a soft tomato to a solid butternut squash?

http://cookshop.ie/shop/victorinox-catering-knives-utensils/454-victorinox-cooks-knife-8-5-inch.html

that knife will do just about everything you want. It's a good size too, small enough to be useable for a novice and big enough to use for jointing.

I have had one for about 4 years and its my absolute favourite knife.
I've owned Wustof, global and a host of other top brand name knives and while they do retain an edge for longer I find that vic knife above a joy to use and for the price you cannot go wrong.

cormie

Thanks for that. Good to have a choice but I must say, after using and holding the Wusthof classic Ikon I gave as a gift, I'm drawn to it. It just felt a lot better than anything else in the shop at the time and if I am to get just one knife to last me years and years, I'm prepared to put that bit extra in

cnocbui

cormie wrote: »

Thanks again Deise and thanks for the tip too cnocbui. I seem to have it in my head that them pull through sharpeners are slightly gimicky and don't do as good a job as a proper sharpening would?

The sharpener I mentioned is not a pull through. Pull-throughs are to be avoided in my experience. The carbide insert is stroked along the length of each edge separately. It is much easier to get a consistent angle than most other methods I have tried. I use it on my Globals because it establishes the profile easily, removing material with ease, but not brutally like a steel does. Then I hone on a stone. Most times I just use the stone to touch up an edge, but the swisstor comes out once in a while to reset the profile when honing would take too long. It is just the best sharpener I have come across.

I was given one of these that works the same way, except it has a ceramic insert opposite the carbide one. You use the ceramic to hone. I could easily live with just this gem if I didn't already have a stone and the other Swisistor:


http://www.knifecenter.com/item/HV39101/havalon-swiss-combo-star-one-tough

The two must-have knives I would most recommend are a utility knife like this one:



And a Vegetable knife like this:



I have these myself, but get whatever brand you fancy the most, I am just illustrating the style.

cormie

Great, thanks a lot for that. That little tool doesn't sound so bad now Is it straight forward enough to use or would you need to look up methods on how to use it or is it just simple provided instructions?

Veg knife is a definite for myself anyway, I'm not sure which other I'd use mostly then out of utility knife, chefs knife and parer? I'd rarely need to cut anything like bread. What would each of the above be used mainly for?

I had a look at the knife block from IKEA, looks good in that there's a lot of space for various size blades, aswell as a hole for a rod, the one thing that threw me off it was that most insert sections aren't fully surrounded by wood and have a metal wall/barrier on the outer side as you can see from the picture. So I'm guessing the back of the knife would need to lie against this to protect the blade, and have the blade facing in against the wooden side?

Unless I went for something like the JML one, but I saw JML style ones in TK maxx and the ones in tK Max seemed a little cheap with the wires all being plastic so again, I'm not sure how good it'd be to have plastic against the blades?

cnocbui

It is very easy and straightforward to use. You hold it against the edge at about 15º and tilt it slightly so that only one of it's two edges in contact with the blade, and then stroke it along the edge from handle to tip, keeping the angle constant. Repeat for as many times as necessary for each side of the edge. I lift off before reaching the tip so as not to round a pointy tip and then do the lat bit of the tip separately with more care and finesse.

As I said, this is easier for a newbie than holding the knife at a constant 15º against a stone while moving it.

The utility knife I use for fruit, getting the stem out of tomatoes, trimming meat, preparing salads etc, etc. All those myriad small jobs which don't involve a lot of chopping or where a sharp point is handy.

cormie

Thanks again for the info. Might keep it simple, maybe a utility, parer and veg knife or so once I get a few bob

cormie

Just to resurrect this thread again. I never got around to getting a set myself, just the Wüsthof CLASSIC IKON Santoku - 4176 / 17 cm for a gift for someone else. I think I'm going to get myself one also tomorrow. I've seen a few recommendations to get a decent parer knife too. Cutting a tough sweet potato the other day really made me want a better knife. For this kind of tough, hard veg, is a Wüsthof CLASSIC IKON Santoku - 4176 / 17 cm good for the task or would another type be better? Might get a classic ikon parer too if they have one in Sweeney's.