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Work refuses to fill form

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  • 13-09-2011 6:42pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    I just finished college and want to start a professional job. Unfortunately, the area that I studied is not exactly in great demand right now, so I need to do either a FAS course or an internship in order to gain relevant qualifications. However, in order to qualify for most FAS/internship programmes I need to be on social welfare.
    I work 2/3days a week, so I can sign on for partial welfare, thus qualifying for a programme but keeping my job. Thing is I need my workplace to fill out a form saying I only work a certain amount of hours a week. They refuse to fill out the form (they say that it would look bad), so I can't apply for welfare, and can't go on any courses/internships. What am I supposed to do?
    I considered quitting when they said they wouldn't fill it out, but I think giving up a job might look bad and cause me to lose any claim to welfare. I also considered telling them to fill it in or give me my P45, but am concerned that that might also backlash. What can I do in these circumstances? I feel like they're totally trapping me in this dead end job!


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    #2
    Animord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Animord


    What do they mean "it would look bad"? It seems strange.

    Can you show the welfare you wage slips which should show your hours per week?


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    #3
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Animord wrote: »
    What do they mean "it would look bad"? It seems strange.

    Can you show the welfare you wage slips which should show your hours per week?

    I don't actually know what they mean by it. Maybe they mean it looks like they can't provide hours for their employees? There was another employee who gave them a form because they had reduced her hours. But this is different, I'm not looking for more hours I just want to do a training course. I've tried explaining it to them but they just keep insisting that it would 'look bad for them'.
    And do you think that would work? Maybe I'll call the welfare office and explain what's going on to them, see if payslips would be enough?


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    #4
    murphym7
    Registered Users Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭murphym7


    Are your current 2/3 days enforced by the company or are they by your choice. If the company can't provide you with more hours they are obliged to sign the form - if the hours are availble, but you choose not to do them, thats a different story.


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    #5
    kildare.17hmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    they have to fill out the form, you are working part time and are entitled to claim for the other days. Go back and tell them this, it is not going to look bad for anyone especially not the employer unless they are not paying prsi for you? That would be the only reason i could think of that they would refuse such a simple and common request


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    #6
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,966 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    kildare.17hmr wrote: »
    ...unless they are not paying prsi for you?

    That's what I was thinking too.

    OP, go to Welfare and find out exactly how many "stamps" have been paid for you this year.

    See if you can get advice from one of their inspectors re what happends if a company won't sign.


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    #7
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Frobenius toekyou wrote: »
    I work 2/3days a week, so I can sign on for partial welfare, thus qualifying for a programme but keeping my job.

    What exactly are you asking them to confirm, the number of hours that you work or that that is all the hours available? Because it sounds like you have to simply decided to work part time, where in fact the company would be in a position to offer you more hours....

    Jim.


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    #8
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    I have come across this before and I could nearly name the company but will not do so. There is nothing sw can do if this company will not fill in I presume the UP16 form. If I am right this is a major grocery/retail company and it appears to be their company policy not to fill out forms for casual employment.

    If you quit your job there is normally a 9 week disqualification period before you can claim jobseekers but under the circumstances this may not be adhered to if you local sw office is aware of this companys policy.


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    #9
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    What exactly are you asking them to confirm, the number of hours that you work or that that is all the hours available? Because it sounds like you have to simply decided to work part time, where in fact the company would be in a position to offer you more hours....

    Jim.

    Just that that's what I work. I think they're under the impression that I'm saying they've reduced my hours when the truth is I just want to do this training course and need to have a welfare policy to do it.
    If I'm being honest, I think they're trying to coerce me into working there as a permanent full-timer. All I wanted was a part time job to get through college. Now that I have my qualifications I'd like to move on.


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    #10
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    Frobenius toekyou wrote: »
    Just that that's what I work. I think they're under the impression that I'm saying they've reduced my hours when the truth is I just want to do this training course and need to have a welfare policy to do it.
    If I'm being honest, I think they're trying to coerce me into working there as a permanent full-timer. All I wanted was a part time job to get through college. Now that I have my qualifications I'd like to move on.

    Not being smart or anything and dont take this in the wrong way but if they are offering you full time employment you should take it. It may not be in your field but at the end of the day it is a full time job. Can you do this training course at night??? To qualify for an internship you need to be on jsa/jsb for 3 months approx... so even if they will sign the forms for you and you work 2/3 days per week it will take you 6 months(that is the equivalent of being totally unemployed for 3 months to qualify for an internship).


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    #11
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    To be perfectly honest you I'd rather jump in front of the DART than just take something because 'it's a full time job'. I'm not getting stuck in that place, not if I can help it.
    I would like it if they'd co-operate, but in the end it's looking like I'm going to have to leave. I can't let my progress be stunted by a dead-end job. Even if it is the 'safe' option. All I'm really concerned about is how quitting might affect getting on welfare, and as a result getting onto one of these schemes.


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    #12
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    Frobenius toekyou wrote: »
    To be perfectly honest you I'd rather jump in front of the DART than just take something because 'it's a full time job'. I'm not getting stuck in that place, not if I can help it.
    I would like it if they'd co-operate, but in the end it's looking like I'm going to have to leave. I can't let my progress be stunted by a dead-end job. Even if it is the 'safe' option. All I'm really concerned about is how quitting might affect getting on welfare, and as a result getting onto one of these schemes.

    Okay quitting could lead to a 9 week disqualification. In order to avail of a jobridge internship you have to be on a sw payment for 3 months. To avail of a FAS course you have to be registered for sw payment.


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    #13
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    GOOD NEWS!
    One of the senior managers came back from sick leave today and found out what happened (or maybe I told them, either way). They immediately asked to see my form and filled it out, then gave the rest of them a lecture about doing the right thing and moral obligations to your employees. It was beautiful. So it looks like I'm saved.


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    #14
    oxysept
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭oxysept


    Good for you OP - glad to see some one has a bit of cop on.

    But may take on this is the whole culture of forms with Dept of Social Welfare & Revenue CRAZZY- I work for a large Company and happen to sit near our HR & Finance Deps the amount of pointless forms being signed & stamped and duplicate information beinf sought is nuts, when it could all be solved if Revenue & SW required large employers to electronically file the info on a P30 & P60 and a bit more, monthly or weekly or with a payroll run. It would keep records at SW up to date and not that much of a problem as all large companies use standard payroll systems that can be tweaked to accommodate it.

    But no lets make it as hard as possible for people to get what they need & stick doing things as we always did in the so called "public service"


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