Did Saturday night ring the death knell for Strikeforce?

MrStuffins

All the signs have been there. UFC wasted no time in shifting all of the top Strikeforce guys over into the UFC. Diaz, Overeem, Cung Le etc.

But Saturday's event surely has to be the biggest sign yet that Strikeforce is dead in the water?

Apparently only a handful of journalists bothered to turn up for the pre-event presser!

Then came the fights. The Arena seats more than 17000 people. And how many people turned up to see the card? Less than 2000! Amazing!

Then the TV broadcast only pulled in 274,000 people. That's just 39,000 more than watched Bellator 49 at the weekend. In the 18 strikeforce events that Showtime have aired, this one ranked no.17 for ratings.

Do you think the conclusion of the HW Grand Prix will be the conclusion of Strikeforce? I would've thought they'd ship the winner straight over to UFC to fight for the title, but considering the finalists I seriously doubt that!

scudzilla

I think anybody who has followed Zuffa for some time realised that there purchase of Strikeforce would mean the end of it.

I gave it 18 months before it went under and all the top fighters went over, shame really as they could move fighters who haven't preformed well (Hardy) and older fighters (Tito).

They could have done stuff like a legends Tourney etc.

Now it seems they're just running it into the ground.

Was the weekends attendance ever confirmed by SF?

MrStuffins

I'm not entirely sure but I have read 4 different reports all saying that the attendance was less than 2000. In a 17000 seater arena that is beyond a disaster!

Edit: official numbers haven't been released but apparently Coker said ticket sales were "rough" and around the 1800 mark.

The Bored One

Its a pity. I had hoped that after they'd stripped the high level assets from it, that they'd use Strikeforce as a venue for their mid level fighters.
There's plenty of decent fighters who pass through the UFC roster who wouldn't be competitive at the higher levels but would be very comepetitive and interesting to watch amongst each other, placing them in strikeforce would have been a good way to keep it going.
If the ticket sales are that low though thats not too likely.

Mr. CooL ICE

Say what you want about Strikeforce production values, but they know how to hide low attendance. I just watched the Bigfoot Cormier intro again and whenever a spotlight shone over anything beyond the front rows, you can see many an empty seat.

I don't follow Strikeforce too much and really only watch the shows featuring bigger names, but the HW GP is something I have been really excited about for a while. Real shame that only 2000 showed up.

MrStuffins

The Grand Prix has lost all credability though.

In the begining there was Fedor, Arlovski, Werdum, Barnett, Overeem....... exciting stuff.

But the way it panned out, especially with Overeem getting the nudge sideways, has ruined it!

One good thing though, we won't have to listen to that clown Mauro Renallo anymore. Jaysus I can't stand him. and Shamrock gets on my nerves as well!

Militich: "Good kick to the ribs"

Shamrock: "Whoa, i know how that feels, I got kicked a lot by Cung Le hahahahahahahaha"

Militich: "Nice boxing"

Shamrock: "Oh I know all about that from the time I fought Nick Diaz"

One of the biggest annoyances for me was those clowns doing the commentary when there are guys out there like Michael "The Voice" Schivello and Bas Rutten! I would sit and watch Cricket if those 2 were commentating!

Xlami

I've no idea why the attendance and tv figures were so low for this event. The last time an MMA event was at that event was hometown Rich Franklin fighting Anderson and they got 16,000. Maybe Cincinatti was the wrong place for an event. Still can't understand why it was so poorly watched. Maybe all the big news during the week took away from it a bit and possibly because Kharitanov and Barnett aren't really names to attract the casual MMA fan. When I was at Fedor-Henderson the event was almost sold out and had a great atmosphere. Obviously Strikeforce probably won't be around this time next year. But it'd be a pity for it to go out with a few poorly atteneded and watched events.

Cill94

It's fate will be the same as the WEC and Pride FC before that. The UFC don't do competition, it's just not their way of conducting business. Instead they prefer to acquire the opposition and then dismantle them until the only thing left standing is the Zuffa monopoly, leaving no room for choice for fans nor fighters.

Also, the poor ratings for the last Strikeforce card can probably largely be attributed to the fact that the tourneys 2 biggest stars (Fedor and Overeem) are now eliminated. The 4 heavyweights that fought on Saturday are largely unknown among casual MMA fans and so didn't pull as high ratings.

The Bored One

After Overreem was pulled out I didn't really see much promotional stuff for the event. After the Zuffa takeover some of the Strikeforce events were advertised during the UFC, can anyone recall if there were any ads for saturdays event on recent promotions?

DrPhilG

Am I right in thinking that Showtime's contract ends in February? But they have an option to renew?

Many felt that Showtime's contract was the only reason the UFC couldn't wrap it up earlier so it's no surprise that they're making very little effort to promote events. With the pathetic viewing figures for the last event and the fact that the UFC have poached Le, Diaz, Overeem, Miller and probably Henderson, plus Fedor's departure, Showtime will drop the product as fast as they can.

There's no doubt that the (in)famous Zuffa hype machine could have ensured a full house and better viewing figures. Better promotion would have at added at least a few more thousand bums in seats and it's a common tactic for Zuffa to comp sometimes thousands of tickets to fill the arena.

MrStuffins

Cill94 wrote: »

The UFC don't do competition, it's just not their way of conducting business. Instead they prefer to acquire the opposition and then dismantle them until the only thing left standing is the Zuffa monopoly, leaving no room for choice for fans nor fighters.

Don't be fooled, when one organisation goes out of business, there's always someone there to step up to the plate. There will always be choice for fighters, which is important for them.

Pride died, Elite XC stepped in. Elite XC died, Strikeforce stepped in and, trust me, there will be someone else willing to be stupid enough to see the opportunity, throw money at it and eventually fail when the superior product, the UFC, swallows them up. Right now there are other places for fighters to go. Bellator (who consistantly put on great cards), BAMMA, Pro Elite have started back up etc.

Now onto what's important for fans. it's very important that UFC continue to be the big guys and the "Superbowl of MMA". This way we can see the best against the best, we can find out who the best guy in each weight-class is without any doubts! It's important MMA doesn't become like boxing and has 4,5 or 6 champions (there are actually 7 World Middleweight Champions at the moment. Take your "Super Champions" and "Diamond Champions" and stick them up your arse).

Again, there will always be haters who will hate "The Man", who are Zuffa right now. But if looked at objectively, you'll see that UFC's dominance is a good thing.

p to the e

MrStuffins wrote: »

Don't be fooled, when one organisation goes out of business, there's always someone there to step up to the plate. There will always be choice for fighters, which is important for them.

Pride died, Elite XC stepped in. Elite XC died, Strikeforce stepped in and, trust me, there will be someone else willing to be stupid enough to see the opportunity, throw money at it and eventually fail when the superior product, the UFC, swallows them up. Right now there are other places for fighters to go. Bellator (who consistantly put on great cards), BAMMA, Pro Elite have started back up etc.

Now onto what's important for fans. it's very important that UFC continue to be the big guys and the "Superbowl of MMA". This way we can see the best against the best, we can find out who the best guy in each weight-class is without any doubts! It's important MMA doesn't become like boxing and has 4,5 or 6 champions (there are actually 7 World Middleweight Champions at the moment. Take your "Super Champions" and "Diamond Champions" and stick them up your arse).

Again, there will always be haters who will hate "The Man", who are Zuffa right now. But if looked at objectively, you'll see that UFC's dominance is a good thing.

I definitely agree. A "premiership" is needed where the best can be against the best and just focus on the belt but these fights may not always be the most entertaining that's why i actually liked the dream of keeping Strikeforce on to either nurture new fighters or place older ones out to pasture.

By the by i'm really impressed with Daniel Cormier. Guy has some serious wrestling skills and his striking seems top notch aswell. Also liking the other heavyweight alternate Chad Griggs. He has power in those hands. I'd love to see how these two get on in the big leagues.

HellsAngel

MrStuffins wrote: »

One of the biggest annoyances for me was those clowns doing the commentary when there are guys out there like Michael "The Voice" Schivello and Bas Rutten! I would sit and watch Cricket if those 2 were commentating!

I haven't watched much Strikeforce as it's not on my cable package, I suppose everyman to himself, but the few times I have heard Bas comment he was on the ball and very far from been a clown.

DrPhilG

HellsAngel wrote: »

I haven't watched much Strikeforce as it's not on my cable package, I suppose everyman to himself, but the few times I have heard Bas comment he was on the ball and very far from been a clown.

I think that's what he said. It annoys him that those clowns are doing the commentary when there are guys like Schivello and Rutten out there.

He doesn't mean that Schivello and Rutten are clowns.

MrStuffins

DrPhilG wrote: »

I think that's what he said. It annoys him that those clowns are doing the commentary when there are guys like Schivello and Rutten out there.

He doesn't mean that Schivello and Rutten are clowns.

Correct. I was calling the Strikeforce guys clowns and was saying the alternatives, The Voice and Bas, are excellent!

Deep10

Did someone actually believe that Strikeforce would continue "business as usual"? Dana allways says his job is to make the fight the people want to see and it was inevitable that people would want to see the top SF fighters vs the UFC guys! Maybe they could keep SF as a farm promotion to build up and coming & young fighters.

Cill94

MrStuffins wrote: »

Don't be fooled, when one organisation goes out of business, there's always someone there to step up to the plate. There will always be choice for fighters, which is important for them.

Pride died, Elite XC stepped in. Elite XC died, Strikeforce stepped in and, trust me, there will be someone else willing to be stupid enough to see the opportunity, throw money at it and eventually fail when the superior product, the UFC, swallows them up. Right now there are other places for fighters to go. Bellator (who consistantly put on great cards), BAMMA, Pro Elite have started back up etc.

Now onto what's important for fans. it's very important that UFC continue to be the big guys and the "Superbowl of MMA". This way we can see the best against the best, we can find out who the best guy in each weight-class is without any doubts! It's important MMA doesn't become like boxing and has 4,5 or 6 champions (there are actually 7 World Middleweight Champions at the moment. Take your "Super Champions" and "Diamond Champions" and stick them up your arse).

Again, there will always be haters who will hate "The Man", who are Zuffa right now. But if looked at objectively, you'll see that UFC's dominance is a good thing.

That's all very well and a nice idea in principle but the problem is that there is currently no fighter's union to ensure that the fighters aren't being taken advantage of. The idea of having a kind of premiership in MMA doesn't work because the UFC are able to decide how much they want to pay a fighter. They can also cut a fighter whenever they like, leaving them to go to a smaller promotion where they'd get payed even less. There's no governing body to regulate the contracts and make sure every fighter is being treated properly. I certainly don't believe that the UFC puts even half of their profit back into the fighters' paychecks.

And while there are a plethora of boxing promotions and multiple champions, boxing at least has crossover fights and co promotion where champions fight champions. The UFC refuses to co promote, as seen in the Fedor debacle way back. Also boxers get payed way more than MMA fighters. GSP doesn't even make a fraction of the money top boxers do. And yes a lot of that is because boxing is the larger sport but also because boxers have better contracts and get a larger slice of the promotion's profits. I read somewhere that Gray Maynard is only getting something like 30k a fight! Pah

MrStuffins

Cill94 wrote: »

That's all very well and a nice idea in principle but the problem is that there is currently no fighter's union to ensure that the fighters aren't being taken advantage of.

And when has there been a hint that UFC fighters are being taken advantage of? You don't think UFC are fair to their fighters? Have you seen the money some of these fighters are on? They have opportunities to win bonuses for fighting well, sometimes as much as $100k! Sure Brian Ebersole got $75k last month after beating Dennis Hallman simply because hallman was wearing a Speedo. UFC fighters are well looked after, this has been well documented.

The idea of having a kind of premiership in MMA doesn't work because the UFC are able to decide how much they want to pay a fighter.

Well of course. WHo else should decide? Do you think that in other sports the employers don;t decide how much to pay?

They can also cut a fighter whenever they like, leaving them to go to a smaller promotion where they'd get payed even less. There's no governing body to regulate the contracts and make sure every fighter is being treated properly.

Again, who says they're not being treated properly? you're just saying words here!

I certainly don't believe that the UFC puts even half of their profit back into the fighters' paychecks.

What's that got to do with anything? There is more to a business than the talent my friend. Again, since when is there a problem with fighters pay? Do you think they're not getting paid enough?

And while there are a plethora of boxing promotions and multiple champions, boxing at least has crossover fights and co promotion where champions fight champions.

Yeah? Tell me ONE boxing division where there is one undisputed champion! Where one man holds all of the beslt and there isn't another man out there claiming to be "world Champion" at the same weight?

The UFC refuses to co promote, as seen in the Fedor debacle way back.

Good! Did you fail to notice that it was UFC who were the ones who build MMA from an exciting but little known sport into the worldwide spectacle it is today? You honestly think that UFC should do all that work, and then help their competitors? I'm guessing you don't study Business!

Also, UFC were very willing to give Fedor the opportunity to fight in the UFC and prove himself as the "Baddest Man on the Planet". They just weren't prepared to help promote M1 for no reason and weren't going to be held to ransom by his advisors. Nothing wrong with that!

Also boxers get payed way more than MMA fighters. GSP doesn't even make a fraction of the money top boxers do. And yes a lot of that is because boxing is the larger sport but also because boxers have better contracts and get a larger slice of the promotion's profits. I read somewhere that Gray Maynard is only getting something like 30k a fight! Pah

Yes, boxing is a bigger sport. Also, this is because MMA is a different kettle of fish. You might as well be comparing Football players pay to Rugby players pay. Also, Gray Maynard brought home $112k from UFC 125! A lot of money.

HellsAngel

DrPhilG wrote: »

I think that's what he said. It annoys him that those clowns are doing the commentary when there are guys like Schivello and Rutten out there.

He doesn't mean that Schivello and Rutten are clowns.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Correct. I was calling the Strikeforce guys clowns and was saying the alternatives, The Voice and Bas, are excellent!

cowzerp

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes, boxing is a bigger sport. Also, this is because MMA is a different kettle of fish. You might as well be comparing Football players pay to Rugby players pay. Also, Gray Maynard brought home $112k from UFC 125! A lot of money.

The reason for that is simple, it's not about competition-it's about sanctioning fee's so to be an indisputed champ you would need to pay for each title to defend it, so therefore most of the time the belts are giving up, but the fact is champions can fight champions which would be good for the sport of MMA, although with every worthwhile competitor been destroyed there would be no champions v champion fights out there.

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

The reason for that is simple, it's not about competition-it's about sanctioning fee's so to be an indisputed champ you would need to pay for each title to defend it, so therefore most of the time the belts are giving up, but the fact is champions can fight champions which would be good for the sport of MMA, although with every worthwhile competitor been destroyed there would be no champions v champion fights out there.

I can't decide if you're saying that would be a good thing or a bad thing.

For me, why have 2 Champions in the first place? Since the dawn of sport, the idea of being the Champion has been all about being the best in the world. And, for me, there should only be one best! When someone comes along who might be as good or better, don't give him another belt and call HIM Champion, give him the opportunity to fight the best and become the best.

Remember David Haye was walking arounf calling himself "The Heavyweight Champ"? Him, his mother and those not familiar with boxing would've believed him (and a lot of people would because he appeared on EVERY tv show known to man). Everybody knew he wasn't THE Heavyweight Champion. He got his opportunity to fight one of the Klitchkos and failed.

Cill94

But Stuffins, don't you want variety? It's the spice of life after all. I know there will always be new promotions springing up but I'm talking about something long-lasting that would have the same level/quality of fighters as UFC. Pride filled that hole and Strikeforce filled it afterward, albeit for only a short space of time (assuming it'll be gone before 2012 is out). Imagine a wealth of promotions all growing their own talent and competing with each other and co promoting massive title fights between champions. Competition breeds a better product for us the fans. I get sick of the UFC product with the same lame gladiator intro and cringey Goldberg commentary. Strikeforce was a breath of fresh air and offered an alternative version of MMA. It's only a matter of time before Zuffa feel threatened by Bellator and buy them out too. JMMA is on its last legs seemingly as well. I think it'd be extremely sad if it gets to the stage where MMA fans are forced to watch only UFC whenever they wanted to see MMA at an elite level.

Xlami

It's not like we're ever going to be left with one organisation. As has been said there will always be organisations to fill the voids left by Pride, Elite and Strikeforce. MMA fans will still continue to watch great fights from promotions all over the world like Bellator, Titan and MFC in America then BAMMA, CW, CC, UCMMA and M1. But the point is none of them will ever over take the UFC. Sometimes I thought the USP of Strikeforce was that it was the number 2 organisation and an alternative. Bellator is a great organisations but we've all heard Askren, Alverez and the likes say they want to test themselves against the UFC guys. With the type of contracts Bellator offer I see them losing any top level fighters the same way Shields was lost by SF.

Cill94

Xlami wrote: »

It's not like we're ever going to be left with one organisation. As has been said there will always be organisations to fill the voids left by Pride, Elite and Strikeforce. MMA fans will still continue to watch great fights from promotions all over the world like Bellator, Titan and MFC in America then BAMMA, CW, CC, UCMMA and M1. But the point is none of them will ever over take the UFC. Sometimes I thought the USP of Strikeforce was that it was the number 2 organisation and an alternative. Bellator is a great organisations but we've all heard Askren, Alverez and the likes say they want to test themselves against the UFC guys. With the type of contracts Bellator offer I see them losing any top level fighters the same way Shields was lost by SF.

I realise that there will always be other promotions. But it will always be an endless cycle of a new promotion gaining popularity, putting on great fights and signing great fighters- and then the UFC buys them out. And it starts over again. I'm just saying that I'd prefer if there were multiple promotions on par with UFC rather than just one behemoth swallowing up every piece of competition that comes their way. As I said, it'd encourage friendly competition and thus create a better product for us. But I know that's not financially a lucrative idea for the UFC and unrealistic in general, I'm just saying in a perfect world that's how I'd like it.

MrStuffins

Cill94 wrote: »

But Stuffins, don't you want variety? It's the spice of life after all. I know there will always be new promotions springing up but I'm talking about something long-lasting that would have the same level/quality of fighters as UFC. Pride filled that hole and Strikeforce filled it afterward, albeit for only a short space of time (assuming it'll be gone before 2012 is out). Imagine a wealth of promotions all growing their own talent and competing with each other and co promoting massive title fights between champions. Competition breeds a better product for us the fans. I get sick of the UFC product with the same lame gladiator intro and cringey Goldberg commentary. Strikeforce was a breath of fresh air and offered an alternative version of MMA. It's only a matter of time before Zuffa feel threatened by Bellator and buy them out too. JMMA is on its last legs seemingly as well. I think it'd be extremely sad if it gets to the stage where MMA fans are forced to watch only UFC whenever they wanted to see MMA at an elite level.

There's nothing wrong with variety, no. But there's no reason why we need it. After all, when you take away the fanfare, the production etc, what you're left with is a fight. A fight is a fight, no matter what banner the lads are fighting under.

And no, of course I don't want loads of different equal promotions all with the same standard of fighter. I want to see the best fight against the best and I want to see who the greatest in the world is. And the way to do that is by pitting them against each other, not keeping them separated and then watch their promoters and bosses negotiate for this that and the other only for them to end up in a Mayweather v Pacquiao situation.

F*ck that! Again, a fight is a fight. It's all the same sport at the end of the day. There is no reason why fighters should be kept apart in different promotions. AT the moment, the UFC is seen as the Champions League of MMA. When you hear footballers say "I couldn't turn down the opportunity to play in the CL", that's the way it should be in MMA. They should want to test themselves. By all means have 100 other promotions underneath that, but in order to find out who the best is, the UFC should exist as the top dogs.

Richy06

MrStuffins wrote: »

DrPhilG wrote: »

I think that's what he said. It annoys him that those clowns are doing the commentary when there are guys like Schivello and Rutten out there.

He doesn't mean that Schivello and Rutten are clowns.

Correct. I was calling the Strikeforce guys clowns and was saying the alternatives, The Voice and Bas, are excellent!

Inside Mma for my weekly dose of Bas! Some man.

Xlami

Cill94 wrote: »

I get sick of the UFC product with the same lame gladiator intro and cringey Goldberg commentary.

Read somewhere there getting rid of that Gladiator intro you'll be happy to hear.

Cill94

MrStuffins wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with variety, no. But there's no reason why we need it. After all, when you take away the fanfare, the production etc, what you're left with is a fight. A fight is a fight, no matter what banner the lads are fighting under.

And no, of course I don't want loads of different equal promotions all with the same standard of fighter. I want to see the best fight against the best and I want to see who the greatest in the world is. And the way to do that is by pitting them against each other, not keeping them separated and then watch their promoters and bosses negotiate for this that and the other only for them to end up in a Mayweather v Pacquiao situation.

F*ck that! Again, a fight is a fight. It's all the same sport at the end of the day. There is no reason why fighters should be kept apart in different promotions. AT the moment, the UFC is seen as the Champions League of MMA. When you hear footballers say "I couldn't turn down the opportunity to play in the CL", that's the way it should be in MMA. They should want to test themselves. By all means have 100 other promotions underneath that, but in order to find out who the best is, the UFC should exist as the top dogs.

BUT no competition means they can skyrocket the PPV prices and not have to worry about putting on great events.

Cill94

Xlami wrote: »

Read somewhere there getting rid of that Gladiator intro you'll be happy to hear.

Huzzah! Maybe Fox will scrape some of the cheese off the UFC presentation.

MrStuffins

Cill94 wrote: »

BUT no competition means they can skyrocket the PPV prices and not have to worry about putting on great events.

PPV Prices? You are now scraping the barrell.

If i'm not mistaken, UFC charge $49.95 right now. DO you really think they will charge more than that? Do you really think that the lack of a rival promotion on a similar footing would effect the PPV charges? And do you really think they would have all of the best fighters in the world and not put on great events?

In any case, UFC PPV is ridiculous value at the moment. If i'm not mistaken, Mayweather v Ortiz is $70 on PPV. For what? The Main Event and a couple of average Undercard fights?

This is silly. Also, I don't pay per view, I have an ESPN sub, so I don't care!

Zero-Cool

Ya the HW grand prix has become an absolute joke! I downloaded mmm recorded strikeforce last weekend but still havn't watched it. I can't stand Mauro and Shamrock drives me nuts.

I love how bad Mauro gets and Bas just pointing and laughing at him, classic stuff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4oJsSnmGkw