Your irish 22 for the 2015 rugby world cup

Christy42

Utility could be a massive factor for players to get on that plane. That could see Earls fit in instead of Fitz who is still struggling to get a run without injury. I do like Earls though I cringe anytime he goes into the center.

I'm guessing Marshall's spot is probably a straight shoot out between Henshaw (no H cup won't help him) and Cave unless Marshall has an incredible season with no bashes to the head.

I am guessing Payne will get on the plane in some slot, he is talented and covers 15 and 13. Both are needed right now (Kearney is our number 1 15 but if something happened...)

MattD

My squad would be:

Healy, McGrath, Killer
Best, Strauss, Cronin
Ross, Moore, (Fitzpatrick)
Toner
POC, Henderson
POM, Ruddock
O'Brien, Henry
Heaslip
Murray, Reddan, McGrath
Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
Bowe
Darcy
Cave, Fitzgerald
Trimble, McFadden
Kearney, Payne

Fitzpatrick in if a 31 man squad is given, can see a big year for him once fit and healthy. Tuohy just misses out on the squad for Ruddock being 4th choice second row. I really think Luke McGrath, if he makes himself second choice for Leinster will be a more trusted option for Ireland than Marmion. If Luke Fitzgerald plays a good string of games at 13 for Leinster like he's always wanted to, he has the skill and talent to succeed there. Either way he's in the squad as the best Irish winger too. A lot of flexibility in who can come into those 12/13 jerseys. Tough on Zebo and Earls, but they lose out to great players.

The tournament comes just too soon for some good players like Reid, Olding, Cronin, Henshaw and Foley

salmocab

Id imagine it will be all about being a utility player to make the greater squad player like Madigan Earls Mc Fadden Henderson or Donnacha Ryan even that can cover a few positions would be invaluable against the weaker sides and as cover.

bilston

Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Ross, Moore
Best, Cronin, Strauss
O'Connell, Henderson, Toner, Ryan
O'Mahony, Henry, O'Brien, Heaslip, Ruddock

Murray, Reddan
Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
D'Arcy, Olding, Henshaw
Trimble, Bowe, Kearney, Payne, Fitzgerald

Diack might push Ruddock, JS might want to bring a third scrum half. The outside backs will be hard to call, particularly the wings. Zebo and Earls could easily be there and Marshall and Cave could challenge in the centre, Hanrahan could be in with a chance. As for Olding, if his knee is ok and he hits his breakthrough form then for me he travels, no question.

salmocab

Very easy to leave a small crew training in Dublin ready to get to England at very short notice too I suppose, so maybe positions like 3rd choice SH that might make a NZ bound squad might be left out as they could join up with the squad in a matter of hours

danthefan

salmocab wrote: »

Very easy to leave a small crew training in Dublin ready to get to England at very short notice too I suppose, so maybe positions like 3rd choice SH that might make a NZ bound squad might be left out as they could join up with the squad in a matter of hours

There's not a hope in hell we won't take 3 SHs. If, say Murray gets a knock that rules him out of one game, you would have to remove him from the squad in order to bring in the third SH. There will 100% be 3 scrum halves in the squad.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Ross, Moore
Best, Cronin, Strauss
O'Connell, Henderson, Toner, Ryan
O'Mahony, Henry, O'Brien, Heaslip, Ruddock

Murray, Reddan
Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
D'Arcy, Olding, Henshaw
Trimble, Bowe, Kearney, Payne, Fitzgerald

Diack might push Ruddock, JS might want to bring a third scrum half. The outside backs will be hard to call, particularly the wings. Zebo and Earls could easily be there and Marshall and Cave could challenge in the centre, Hanrahan could be in with a chance. As for Olding, if his knee is ok and he hits his breakthrough form then for me he travels, no question.

Funny we're now at the stage where there aren't nearly enough spaces in the squad but there will be 3 scrumhalves going, which means one of those outside backs will have to lose out. God knows who it will be. I think its safe to say though if you're good enough to make the final cut for this squad you're going to have to be playing very very well, which is a great place to be.

I reckon the wingers will be form calls (albeit maybe form several months before the squad is finalised because whoever starts in the 6 Nations will probably be going). Bowe is the only one I would consider 'locked in' because his class is just permanent.

Also I would be very very happy if those 3 centres go, it means the Olding/Henshaw partnership will have happened/will happen at some point

bilston

Tox56 wrote: »

Funny we're now at the stage where there aren't nearly enough spaces in the squad but there will be 3 scrumhalves going, which means one of those outside backs will have to lose out. God knows who it will be. I think its safe to say though if you're good enough to make the final cut for this squad you're going to have to be playing very very well, which is a great place to be.

I reckon the wingers will be form calls (albeit maybe form several months before the squad is finalised because whoever starts in the 6 Nations will probably be going). Bowe is the only one I would consider 'locked in' because his class is just permanent.

Also I would be very very happy if those 3 centres go, it means the Olding/Henshaw partnership will have happened/will happen at some point

You're right about 3 scrum halves, for some reason I thought we had only brought two to previous world cups but I was thinking of the 10 position.

Utah_Saint

bilston wrote: »

Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Ross, Moore
Best, Cronin, Strauss
O'Connell, Henderson, Toner, Ryan
O'Mahony, Henry, O'Brien, Heaslip, Ruddock

Murray, Reddan
Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
D'Arcy, Olding, Henshaw
Trimble, Bowe, Kearney, Payne, Fitzgerald

Diack might push Ruddock, JS might want to bring a third scrum half. The outside backs will be hard to call, particularly the wings. Zebo and Earls could easily be there and Marshall and Cave could challenge in the centre, Hanrahan could be in with a chance. As for Olding, if his knee is ok and he hits his breakthrough form then for me he travels, no question.

very much agree on olding..

shuffol

I'd be surprised to see Madigan going unless he makes a case at 12 next season. Better value in bringing a 12 who can cover 10 like Olding rather than a 10 who can cover 12 given Sexton and Jackson will travel.

.ak

Tbh, whilst I think Olding may be the best thing since sliced bread. I very much doubt he'll be in the RWC squad. It's very much down to whether or not he plays in Autumn. If he doesn't, he won't play in the 6N.

former legend

shuffol wrote: »

I'd be surprised to see Madigan going unless he makes a case at 12 next season. Better value in bringing a 12 who can cover 10 like Olding rather than a 10 who can cover 12 given Sexton and Jackson will travel.

You never know what will happen I suppose. This time last year Madigan was firmly ahead of Jackson as #2 outhalf so in another 12 months things could have changed again.

I agree with .ak though, it's going to be a massive ask for Olding to make it, barring injury to D'Arcy

CatFromHue

There's an awful lot of hype for guy who's only played 19 games for Ulster. That's 19 total and not 19 starts.

I have to say I haven't really seen much of him play so I dunno if it's warranted or what but I do get wary when there's so much hype.

Tox56

shuffol wrote: »

I'd be surprised to see Madigan going unless he makes a case at 12 next season. Better value in bringing a 12 who can cover 10 like Olding rather than a 10 who can cover 12 given Sexton and Jackson will travel.

If Olding does go to the RWC it won't be because he can play 10. He's barely played for Ulster in his other positions 12 and 15 never mind 10.

CatFromHue wrote: »

There's an awful lot of hype for guy who's only played 19 games for Ulster. That's 19 total and not 19 starts.

I have to say I haven't really seen much of him play so I dunno if it's warranted or what but I do get wary when there's so much hype.

He's a brilliant prospect, you can't promise much more than that because of how long hes been out with injury and how quickly those prospects can fade away, but the fact he's already started for Ireland with only 19 total games for Ulster speaks to what a talent he is.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

Tbh, whilst I think Olding may be the best thing since sliced bread. I very much doubt he'll be in the RWC squad. It's very much down to whether or not he plays in Autumn. If he doesn't, he won't play in the 6N.

We'll see.

Look we can't predict how he will return from his ACL injury but if he has recovered completely and he rediscovers his form he will have a real chance at taking Marshall's place in the Ulster team (though Anscombe may have other ideas and might see him as a 15 with Payne making the switch to 13) if he does that he will have a shot with Ireland. Whether he manages to do that by the time the Autumn tests comes round is another matter, however I disagree that that not playing in the Autumn would rule a player our of the 6Ns or WC.

The fact he can play 10/12/13/15 also adds huge value to him as a squad even if that mightn't be a good thing for him in there long term.

former legend

bilston wrote: »

We'll see.

Look we can't predict how he will return from his ACL injury but if he has recovered completely and he rediscovers his form he will have a real chance at taking Marshall's place in the Ulster team (though Anscombe may have other ideas and might see him as a 15 with Payne making the switch to 13) if he does that he will have a shot with Ireland. Whether he manages to do that by the time the Autumn tests comes round is another matter, however I disagree that that not playing in the Autumn would rule a player our of the 6Ns or WC.

The fact he can play 10/12/13/15 also adds huge value to him as a squad even if that mightn't be a good thing for him in there long term.

That's Olding's problem IMO; over the next 5-6 months, he needs to:
1) Prove he's back to fitness
2) Take Marshall's place at Ulster
3) Put in a couple of big performances in the opening rounds of the European cup (he has yet to start a HC game, remember)
4) Get some game time in the November internationals

Even then, he probably still needs either to displace D'Arcy at national level or prove he's a better utility option for covering 10/12 than Madigan to make the RWC. A big ask.

That said, you never know. He got a cap for Ireland when D'Arcy, Wallace and Marshall were all injured, the same thing could happen again and he could suddenly shoot up the rankings.

shuffol

.ak wrote: »

Tbh, whilst I think Olding may be the best thing since sliced bread. I very much doubt he'll be in the RWC squad. It's very much down to whether or not he plays in Autumn. If he doesn't, he won't play in the 6N.

I dont think that will be the case, if someone is playing well enough and better than those in front of them they'll get an opportunity. I think there's definitely room for a bolter at 12, D'arcy will be 35 and without his partnership with O'Driscoll wont be as indispensable and Marshall has looked low on confidence for a while now.

danthefan

We need to wait and see what Olding does once he's fit. He has played very little rugby so far, only has in total about 20 Ulster caps and I'd imagine a good few aren't starts. If he has a great season then he could easily find himself at the RWC but considering how little he's played he'll have to break into the Ulster team first to make the squad imo, because it's a different situation from someone like Jack McGrath who might not be first choice at Leinster but has demonstrated clearly he's up to international rugby.

Christy42

shuffol wrote: »

I'd be surprised to see Madigan going unless he makes a case at 12 next season. Better value in bringing a 12 who can cover 10 like Olding rather than a 10 who can cover 12 given Sexton and Jackson will travel.

We need a third 10. Olding can't cover 10 at international level (yet) and there simply isn't enough games for him to get experience there given he is aiming for the 12 spot in Ulster. A third outhalf who has played outhalf at a high level is required at the WC.

jacothelad

former legend wrote: »

So, with only just over a year and maybe only 10 games until the RWC, where do we stand? This would be my 30-man squad, as of now and assuming everyone is fit.

Props (5): Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Ross, Moore
Hooker (3): Best, Cronin, Strauss
Second-row (4): POC, Toner, Henderson, Ryan
Back-row (5): Heaslip, POM, SOB, Henry, Ruddock
SH (3): Murray, Reddan, Marmion
OH (3): Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
Centres (3): D'Arcy, Marshall, Payne
Back-three (4): R Kearney, Fitzgerald, Trimble, Bowe

This means guys like Tuohy, Jordi Murphy, Earls, Zebo, McFadden and Dave Kearney would all miss out! Then again, the chances of there being no injuries are zero so gaps will open up.

There are a couple of dark horses, like Olding or Hanrahan, but I'd expect it to resemble something along those lines, anyone who hasn't been involved in the national squad so far is going to need an enormous season to force their way in.

The big question is still who plays at 13; I initially had Cave in there but I just can't see him going. I expect to see a lot more of Payne there this season.

Being pragmatic, I'd pretty much agree except for one thing. People keep talking about Payne at 13. They must not have seen him there for Ulster. The improvement between the play when Cave plays there is so significant I can't understand why there is still the clamour to elevate Payne. Cave is a very high quality 13 but no one touches the coat tails of BOD.
We all know Cave isn't experienced at 12 nor would he play there if Marshall was available and I understand that Schmidt wanted to look at Fergus McF. as a 13. Cave played well in the shambolic first test despite what many begrudgers tried to engineer of his performance.

Payne is, i.m.o.,the best 15 in Ireland, particularly when you add his attacking vision and tactical kicking to what he can do while being superb at the normal 15 duties. His forays as a 13 have been little more than anonymous. What he did at 13 four years ago in N.Z. is not really relevant. There is an argument put forward that he should be given the opportunity to show what he can do as a 13 for Ulster. This is fair enough. No one should deny a high quality player the means to show what he can do. I wonder why the same opportunity is so easily denied to Cave. Perhaps after all, his face simply isn't the right one.

Edit: Just a line to say that while I don't hold out any great hope of Deccie Fitz returning, if he does he should be added to the t.h. list.

Utah_Saint

I'm guilty of hyping Olding....can't help it though as he's the most talented back i've seen in Ireland since BOD.

former legend

jacothelad wrote: »

Being pragmatic, I'd pretty much agree except for one thing. People keep talking about Payne at 13. They must not have seen him there for Ulster. The improvement between the play when Cave plays there is so significant I can't understand why there is still the clamour to elevate Payne. Cave is a very high quality 13 but no one touches the coat tails of BOD.
We all know Cave isn't experienced at 12 nor would he play there if Marshall was available and I understand that Schmidt wanted to look at Fergus McF. as a 13. Cave played well in the shambolic first test despite what many begrudgers tried to engineer of his performance.

Payne is, i.m.o.,the best 15 in Ireland, particularly when you add his attacking vision and tactical kicking to what he can do while being superb at the normal 15 duties. His forays as a 13 have been little more than anonymous. What he did at 13 four years ago in N.Z. is not really relevant. There is an argument put forward that he should be given the opportunity to show what he can do as a 13 for Ulster. This is fair enough. No one should deny a high quality player the means to show what he can do. I wonder why the same opportunity is so easily denied to Cave. Perhaps after all, his face simply isn't the right one.

I agree with all of the above; Payne has been distinctly underwhelming at 13 so far but he definitely has the skill set to do it and I think the prospect of having both Payne and Rob Kearney on the pitch will be too tempting for Joe not to give it a lash.

Re: Cave, I've always been a cheerleader of his on boards but I think everyone has missed the significance of him not being given the 13 jersey for the second test in Argentina. The most blue-blooded Leinster fan wouldn't rank McFadden as much more than decent cover at 13 and Joe has seen plenty of McFadden over the last four years, so that doesn't bode well for Cave at all.

jacothelad

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I'm guilty of hyping Olding....can't help it though as he's the most talented back i've seen in Ireland since BOD.

Without getting carried away, when he gets the ball you expect something good to happen, just like when BOD was new on the scene. I however think that in what remains of my lifetime, we will never see a talent and sheer will to win like that of O'Driscoll. I'd love to be wrong. One of the things that BOD brought to the pitch as a young man was great acceleration and a step of either foot. Mike Gibson had it and Olding seems to have been blessed with those attributes. Time will tell. I'm optimistic.

.ak

shuffol wrote: »

I dont think that will be the case, if someone is playing well enough and better than those in front of them they'll get an opportunity. I think there's definitely room for a bolter at 12, D'arcy will be 35 and without his partnership with O'Driscoll wont be as indispensable and Marshall has looked low on confidence for a while now.

Being realistic about it, I think it's very much the case. If he doesn't get any time with the internationals in autumn when will he? 6N is knock out rugby and the coaches won't use it as an experimental ground. He might get a shot with the wolfhounds, but that's it.

Really, we need him fit and firing on all cylinders.

And hopefully he gets a few games at 13 before then too, because I think that's where his future may lie.

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

Without getting carried away, when he gets the ball you expect something good to happen, just like when BOD was new on the scene. I however think that in what remains of my lifetime, we will never see a talent and sheer will to win like that of O'Driscoll. I'd love to be wrong. One of the things that BOD brought to the pitch as a young man was great acceleration and a step of either foot. Mike Gibson had it and Olding seems to have been blessed with those attributes. Time will tell. I'm optimistic.

This.

Watching Olding last season reminded me of watching BOD ten years ago. If he is good enough he will travel irrespective of whether he plays in November or not.

If his fitness is good I bet this won't even be a debate in 12 months time.

stephen_n

A lot of pressure to put on a young lads shoulders, hopefully the injury doesn't impair his ability in the future, when's his scheduled return date?

gosullivan89

stephen_n wrote: »

A lot of pressure to put on a young lads shoulders, hopefully the injury doesn't impair his ability in the future, when's his scheduled return date?

He'll take part in the preseason i would assume.

I don't think a lot of the younger lads will make the WC squad, but great to see such talent coming through all 4 provinces.

MattD

To be fair, we've seen from Moore, Cronin, Reid this season and Gilroy and Marshall the previous seasons, that young players can definitely go from relatively unknown young academy graduate in September to Ireland international in the summer if they play well enough.

Olding has much more of a stable jumping off point than those players mentioned going into the preseason. If Olding plays well enough for Ulster to warrant a place in the squad, he'll get it.

ssaye2

Looking back at o2 challenge aviva 2010


15 Sam Coghlan Murray (Leinster)
14 Craig Gilroy (Ulster)
13 Alex Kelly (Leinster)
12 Luke Marshall (Ulster) Captain
11 Andrew Boyle (Leinster)
10 Paddy Jackson (Ulster)
9 Peter du Toit (Leinster)
1 James Tracy (Leinster)
2 Jonny Murphy (Ulster)
3 Martin Moore (Leinster)
4 Iain Henderson (Ulster)
5 Robert Hynes (Leinster)
6 Steven Lecky (Ulster)
7 Mark McGroarty (Leinster)
8 David McGuigan (Ulster)
Replacements
16 Paddy Carroll (Leinster)
17 Andy Warrick (Ulster)
18 Mark Fallon (Leinster)
19 Paddy Marks (Ulster)
20 Conor Spence (Ulster)
21 Cathal Marsh (Leinster)
22 Michael McAuley (Ulster)

15 Callum Boland (Connacht)
14 Tadhg Leader (Connacht)
13 Daniel Horgan (Munster)
12 Ben Sargent (Munster)
11 Shane Leydon (Connacht)
10 Johnny Holland (Munster)
9 Mark Dolan (Connacht, captain)
1 Aaron Spring (Connacht)
2 Kieran Stokes (Munster)
3 Paul Mullen (Munster)
4 Rob O’Herlihy (Munster)
5 David O’Mahony (Munster)
6 Shane Buckley (Munster)
7 Aaron Conneely (Connacht)
8 Danny Qualter (Connacht)
Replacements
16 James Rael (Munster)
17 Sean Wooton (Connacht)
18 Ian Mullarkey (Munster)
19 David Heffernan (Connacht)
20 Ronan Barry (Munster)
21 Gareth Quinn-McDonogh (Munster)
22 Jack Costigan (Munster)
23 Cathal Quinn (Munster)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3bkmNv7Lns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTVyWRv8yfk

Interesting to watch this from time to time and see who is still performing, shame for Boyle

Interesting to see which names from that list have made senior appearances already.


Ulster
Craig Gilroy (I)
Luke Marshall (I)
Paddy Jackson (I)
Iain Henderson (I)
Andrew Warrick

Leinster
Sam Coghlan Murray
James Tracy
Martin Moore (I)
Cathal Marsh

Connacht
Tadhg Leader
Shane Leydon
Aaron Conneely
Danny Qualter
James Rael (who featured 'for' Munster on this day)

Munster
Johnny Holland

(I) denotes full international cap.

former legend

MattD wrote: »

To be fair, we've seen from Moore, Cronin, Reid this season and Gilroy and Marshall the previous seasons, that young players can definitely go from relatively unknown young academy graduate in September to Ireland international in the summer if they play well enough.

But they all needed gaps to appear when senior players were injured or rested, simply playing well wasn't enough, so to some extent Olding is going to have to hope for that to happen too, except no-one is going to be rested between now and the RWC...

former legend

Deleted User wrote: »

Munster
?

Did Johnny Holland get a small amount of gametime when JJ was injured?

case885

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting to see which names from that list have made senior appearances already.


Ulster
Craig Gilroy (I)
Luke Marshall (I)
Paddy Jackson (I)
Iain Henderson (I)

Leinster
Sam Coghlan Murray
James Tracy
Martin Moore (I)
Cathal Marsh

Connacht
Tadhg Leader
Shane Leydon
Aaron Conneely
Danny Qualter
James Rael (who featured 'for' Munster on this day)

Munster
?

(I) denotes full international cap.

Johnny Holland has played pre season with senior team, suprised JJ wasnt there.

Buer

former legend wrote: »

Did Johnny Holland get a small amount of gametime when JJ was injured?

Yup. Couple of brief appearances from the bench.

former legend

former legend wrote: »

Did Johnny Holland get a small amount of gametime when JJ was injured?

Buer wrote: »

Yup. Couple of brief appearances from the bench.

no mention on Munster's site?

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/academyprofiles.php?player=104780&includeref=dynamic

bilston

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Interesting to see which names from that list have made senior appearances already.


Ulster
Craig Gilroy (I)
Luke Marshall (I)
Paddy Jackson (I)
Iain Henderson (I)

Leinster
Sam Coghlan Murray
James Tracy
Martin Moore (I)
Cathal Marsh

Connacht
Tadhg Leader
Shane Leydon
Aaron Conneely
Danny Qualter
James Rael (who featured 'for' Munster on this day)

Munster
?

(I) denotes full international cap.

Andrew Warwick has a few Ulster caps under his belt now as well.

siltirocker

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting to see which names from that list have made senior appearances already.


Ulster
Craig Gilroy (I)
Luke Marshall (I)
Paddy Jackson (I)
Iain Henderson (I)
Andrew Warrick

Leinster
Sam Coghlan Murray
James Tracy
Martin Moore (I)
Cathal Marsh

Connacht
Tadhg Leader
Shane Leydon
Aaron Conneely
Danny Qualter
James Rael (who featured 'for' Munster on this day)

Munster
?

(I) denotes full international cap.

Leader isn't really part of Connacht anymore, neither is Conneely. To my knowledge none made a senior appearance. Layden made 2 appearances 3 seasons ago, Qualter has played 10 minutes or so in 2 years and Rael is gone too.

That Ulster/Leinster team was superb.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

no mention on Munster's site?

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/academyprofiles.php?player=104780&includeref=dynamic

Academy players often don't have senior appearances added until they're part of the senior squad.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/statzone/players.php?player=104780&includeref=dynamic

bilston

siltirocker wrote: »

Leader isn't really part of Connacht anymore, neither is Conneely. To my knowledge none made a senior appearance. Layden made 2 appearances 3 seasons ago, Qualter has played 10 minutes or so in 2 years and Rael is gone too.

That Ulster/Leinster team was superb.

Did Leader not score a try against Ulster back in April?

Shane Layden is a mystery to me. He looked a serious prospect at 20s level.

sydthebeat

Hasn't leader had quite a few appearances this year for Connacht?

siltirocker

Darragh Leader has made the Connacht team numerous times.

Tadhg Leader is a different player, Darragh's older brother. With Garryowen I believe.

bilston

siltirocker wrote: »

Darragh Leader has made the Connacht team numerous times.

Tadhg Leader is a different player, Darragh's older brother. With Garryowen I believe.

That would explain it!

S12b

siltirocker wrote: »

Darragh Leader has made the Connacht team numerous times.

Tadhg Leader is a different player, Darragh's older brother. With Garryowen I believe.

Was with Shannon and Connacht academy, let go by Connacht and is living in America now

padser

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Interesting to see which names from that list have made senior appearances already.


Ulster
Craig Gilroy (I)
Luke Marshall (I)
Paddy Jackson (I)
Iain Henderson (I)
Andrew Warrick

Leinster
Sam Coghlan Murray
James Tracy
Martin Moore (I)
Cathal Marsh

Connacht
Tadhg Leader
Shane Leydon
Aaron Conneely
Danny Qualter
James Rael (who featured 'for' Munster on this day)

Munster
Johnny Holland

(I) denotes full international cap.

Whether it's quality if player or what they are feeding them in the academy Ulster did exceptionally well out of that group.

Leinster looks OK with 4 but realistically just one guy (Moore) is a regular player. At least it's a tighthead though!!

Don't watch enough Connaught to judge them.

Munster looks fairly shambolic but Munster do have a history of bringing players through late to a high standard (Ryan, O Donnell etc).

The Lost Sheep

padser wrote: »

Whether it's quality if player or what they are feeding them in the academy Ulster did exceptionally well out of that group.

Leinster looks OK with 4 but realistically just one guy (Moore) is a regular player. At least it's a tighthead though!!

Don't watch enough Connaught to judge them.

Munster looks fairly shambolic but Munster do have a history of bringing players through late to a high standard (Ryan, O Donnell etc).

Leinster are fine. Moore is about the only guy to be a regular starter but Coghlan Murray, Tracy, Moore, Marsh have been in pro set up quite recently or still are
Ulster had an exceptional group that year.
Munster's group that age group were not strong but shambolic no. Munster upped their efforts and changed their underage coaching and development system after that year.
Connacht have done ok with that age group though some players have had positional switches etc since then like Aaron Spring who was a loosehead prop in that game plays on the wing/centre with his home town club Sligo in the AIL these days.

padser

.ak wrote: »

Being realistic about it, I think it's very much the case. If he doesn't get any time with the internationals in autumn when will he? 6N is knock out rugby and the coaches won't use it as an experimental ground. He might get a shot with the wolfhounds, but that's it.

.

Im sorry but I just don't buy this.

I accept you are probably correct in practice (ie most likely players in the World Cup squad will have been capped by the autumn internationals) but that's more a function of the fact that the best players for the squad will most likely not appear in the 6 months prior to the World Cup.

But I can't accept that if a player like Olding is tearing it up from November through to May and fulfilling the potential people say he has (I haven't seen enough of his 19 ulster performances to judge) that there is no way into the World Cup squad. New players are introduced during the 6N all the time (Ross was overlooked in nov 2010 IIRC and nailed on most valuable member of the squad by RWC 2011).

If a player emerges during the next season that's better than incumbents I'd expect Joe to pick them. Experience counts in favour of incumbents but it doesn't trump everything.

Tox56

padser wrote: »

Im sorry but I just don't buy this.

I accept you are probably correct in practice (ie most likely players in the World Cup squad will have been capped by the autumn internationals) but that's more a function of the fact that the best players for the squad will most likely not appear in the 6 months prior to the World Cup.

But I can't accept that if a player like Olding is tearing it up from November through to May and fulfilling the potential people say he has (I haven't seen enough of his 19 ulster performances to judge) that there is no way into the World Cup squad. New players are introduced during the 6N all the time (Ross was overlooked in nov 2010 IIRC and nailed on most valuable member of the squad by RWC 2011).

If a player emerges during the next season that's better than incumbents I'd expect Joe to pick them. Experience counts in favour of incumbents but it doesn't trump everything.

Trimble got his chance due to injury admittedly but he went from nowhere near Joe's plans in the AIs to an integral member of the 6N winning team and a big favourite to go to the RWC even this far out, you just can't predict these things

shuffol

I think people's perceptions of how much Joe would rotate are skewed by this years 6N when we were competing for the championship and points difference was going to be crucial. Besides there was no-one who really made a case for involvement this season except Zebo but that was against questionable opposition and he's obviously not as highly rated by Schmidt as he is by others.

Christy42

What do people expect from Hanrahan over the coming year? I expected him to make a few peoples squads (not my own admittedly).

Grimebox

I dunno. I don't think anyone did themselves any favours on the Argentina tour. I think Cave put his hand for 13 but that's about it.