Potentially fatal near miss, big eye opener

Rabidlamb

Came out of my local garage this morning making a quick right turn, I travel no more than 50 yards where I prepare to hook right again.
Nothing coming so start to make the turn when the next thing I spot a motorcyclist coming towards me seemingly out of nowhere.
I hit the brakes, he squirms under braking but as I've only just crossed the white line he passes without further incident.
He had a hi-vis vest & lights were on.

Maybe my perception is going, maybe I was distracted, maybe my windows hadn't fully demisted, maybe he came around the bend ahead too fast but either way he'd have been a dead man but for a fraction of a second.

I've been banging my head trying to work out what happened & where I went wrong when I remembered I'd just been undertaken by a car going straight ahead.
He was favouring the middle of the road as was the oncoming motorcyclist.
As I saw nothing coming I started my manoeuvre as normal.
It was the perfect storm for an accident.
Still not sure how I feel.

BuzzFish

And that's why we should all have a spare pair of underpants in our cars.

youtube!

EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED!

PaudyW

jeez you were lucky, next time it might be a truck and it would nd have scraped by , so pay better attention when your driving, look and look again


ps. if it was me on the bike, id have booted your car on the way past.

Only way some people seem to learn is if it costs them

BostonB

Bikes can be hard to see, A pillar can easily obscure one.

thirtythirty

Fair play for avoiding anyway.

The motorcyclist also misread the situation too - a slow/stopped car close to the centre of the road should have indicated to him that you *might* be turning right, whether an indicator was on or not.

However if your turn was a quick movement it's pretty hard for a biker to read the car signals and it'll have turned before the information can be processed.

Rabidlamb

Rabidlamb wrote: »

.........
Maybe my perception is going, maybe I was distracted, maybe my windows hadn't fully demisted, maybe he came around the bend ahead too fast but either way he'd have been a dead man but for a fraction of a second. .............

I reckon you were on planet zog to be honest, you'd want to start slowing to almost a halt going forward in such situations, perhaps an eye test may be in order, I'm not kidding either or trying to stir sh1t, you nearly took a bike out by turning right at a junction.

BanzaiBk

Did this happen in Cork by any chance? South city...

gbee

youtube! wrote: »

EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED!

I think that's a silly expression, I'm not getting out of bed because there could be an unexpected poisonous snake waiting to strike. And I don't live in Australia.

If we could expect the unexpected, we'd go nowhere and do nothing.

And tbh, a bike flying up the road is nothing unexpected ~ what can one do about it ~ I've had identical experience.

It's so common it's even on the road safety ads. Look twice as OP did is about it. He did it.

The science of the male vision is a scan every few seconds and a brain matched report, a male driver is trained to spot danger, anything he thinks is not dangerous is eliminated from his calculations.

A male driver is alerted to movement and can react very fast but at typical bike speeds the bike is not seen in the first instance and is not a threat. The next scan will reveal a foreign object [the bike] and this is prioritised for the next scan, the third scan detects fast moving object and identifies it as a bike and alerts the driver's auto response system to take action ~ usually breaking.

I'm sure I could find times from when the bike should be in the driver's vision [but ignored] from his first scan to the time the alert is issued by the brain, third or fourth scan of the scene.

If these times were overlaid on the speed the bike was doing we'd see how far the bike travelled before being seen. The driver gets a very short notice and the common theme is out of nowhere ~ bicycles do it too ~ they can be deemed to be travelling too slowly to be a danger and are often ignored by the brain.

johnthemull

Think once, think twice, think bike

Anan1

FWIW, i'm impressed that you're taking the time to post-mortem the event to see what you can learn out of it.

Anan1

PaudyW wrote: »

ps. if it was me on the bike, id have booted your car on the way past.

Only way some people seem to learn is if it costs them

Do you want motorists to care about bikers or don't you? That kind of juvenile nonsense just alienates motorists and therefore endangers your fellow bikers.

kerten

Rabidlamb wrote: »

He had a hi-vis vest & lights were on.

In fact biker did everything he could to be seen which makes OP is faulty in this incident

But to be fair, this may happen anyone and motorbikes can react and stop instantly if they don't speed for their own safety.

I have been in same situation and hit motorbike while doing a U-turn despite I checked road many times. Biker didn't wear anything visible(not mandatory in my country), protective(no helmet) and light was off in dark. So I didn't see it coming.

My fault was trusting my vision too much(early twenties aagh) and doing U-turn fast to not to block a busy road(I learned that rushing in traffic brings trouble).

I think maneuvers similar to this should be done slowly even we think that we are so careful.

BostonB

The unexpected, accidents can happen to anyone. People are dangerously deluded if they think they have perfect observation all the time.

Never assume you have been seen either. Even if you look like the Eiffel tower at night.

galwaytt

PaudyW wrote: »

ps. if it was me on the bike, id have booted your car on the way past.

Only way some people seem to learn is if it costs them

What a moronic post.

Motorcyclists like you, we can do without.

And I ride one everyday, btw.

+1 to OP on saving at least one, and who knows, maybe 2, lives. Just goes to back up the RSA ad ( - can't believe I said that - :rolleyes:), that most bike accidents are caused by cars. And sometimes they are just that - accidents.

LLU

In before the "you should have your license taken off you..."
and the "its because of people like you my insurance is so high...."
and the "does anyone else hope a guard saw what happened and throws the book at him....", etc etc

it's not an ideal world. Bad stuff happens and is very often due to a series of small things combining together to make a disaster, which is what nearly happened here, and this is a good reminder of what everyone is up against.

Fair play to the OP for sharing the story!

LLU

LLU wrote: »

In before the "you should have your license taken off you..."
and the "its because of people like you my insurance is so high...."
and the "does anyone else hope a guard saw what happened and throws the book at him....", etc etc

it's not an ideal world. Bad stuff happens and is very often due to a series of small things combining together to make a disaster, which is what nearly happened here, and this is a good reminder of what everyone is up against.

Fair play to the OP for sharing the story!

ah, I see I was miles too late to be in before all that stuff. Quelle surprise!
:rolleyes:

cyclopath2001

Rabidlamb wrote: »

as I've only just crossed the white line he passes without further incident.

Was there a continuous white line in the centre of the road?

LLU

PaudyW wrote: »

jeez you were lucky, next time it might be a truck and it would nd have scraped by , so pay better attention when your driving, look and look again


ps. if it was me on the bike, id have booted your car on the way past.

Only way some people seem to learn is if it costs them

clearly you are very well qualified to lecture other people on safety then.

smellslikeshoes

galwaytt wrote: »

What a moronic post.

Motorcyclists like you, we can do without.

And I ride one everyday, btw.

If you ride every day you will know how often this sort of thing happens. I've had 3 similar close calls in the last fortnight. Two of them didn't even realise what they had done and the other gave me the finger. I have taken my fair share of wing mirrors and I make no apologies for it.

Anan1 wrote: »

Do you want motorists to care about bikers or don't you? That kind of juvenile nonsense just alienates motorists and therefore endangers your fellow bikers.

I couldn't see how alienating motorists could make them any more reckless when it comes to spotting bikers, loosing a wing mirror might give them a wake up call or at the very least make them give bikers a wide berth for fear of it happening again.
The OP has to be commended here because most people would have just shrugged off this close call but instead has used it as a real wake up call to take a good look at his/her driving.

Rabidlamb

PaudyW wrote: »

jeez you were lucky, next time it might be a truck and it would nd have scraped by , so pay better attention when your driving, look and look again

If it had been a truck or a car oncoming their width would have made them visible & not blanked out by the passing car.
You can have every visibility aid at your disposal but if you fit them in a vertical stripe 2 feet wide you're liable to blind spots.

Rabidlamb

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Was there a continuous white line in the centre of the road?

Short broken line only for the right turn.

Rabidlamb

BanzaiBk wrote: »

Did this happen in Cork by any chance? South city...

South Kildare

Anan1

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

I couldn't see how alienating motorists could make them any more reckless when it comes to spotting bikers, loosing a wing mirror might give them a wake up call or at the very least make them give bikers a wide berth for fear of it happening again.

Do you honestly think that kicking a mirror off a car will make that motorist more concerned for the welfare of bikers? They're far more likely to decide that biker = scumbag, and that is always going to be bad news for bikers. We need motorists to be more aware of, and more considerate towards, bikers. Kicking mirrors off may well relieve your (completely understandable) frustration, but remember that the end result may well be another biker in the back of an ambulance.

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

The OP has to be commended here because most people would have just shrugged off this close call but instead has used it as a real wake up call to take a good look at his/her driving.

+1

Big Nasty

LLU wrote: »

In before the "you should have your license taken off you..."
and the "its because of people like you my insurance is so high...."
and the "does anyone else hope a guard saw what happened and throws the book at him....", etc etc

it's not an ideal world. Bad stuff happens and is very often due to a series of small things combining together to make a disaster, which is what nearly happened here, and this is a good reminder of what everyone is up against.

Fair play to the OP for sharing the story!

LLU wrote: »

ah, I see I was miles too late to be in before all that stuff. Quelle surprise!
:rolleyes:

What am I missing here!?!

cyclopath2001

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Short broken line only for the right turn.

Sounds like a tricky road with no overtaking and the broken line just for your exit, so maybe there's risk factors on that road. The most important thing is that no collision happened and some bit of extra care that you took compensated for any mistakes made by either yourself or himself.

If he was approaching a garage exit, he should have been mindful of people exiting, doing the best they can to be safe, but increasing his safety margin just in case.

Rabidlamb

MCMLXXV wrote: »

What am I missing here!?!

The Motors forum has a reputation for being holier than thou & very finger wagging.
There's a small cohort that become judge & jury should you admit to any offence no matter small.

smellslikeshoes

Anan1 wrote: »

Do you honestly think that kicking a mirror off a car will make that motorist more concerned for the welfare of bikers? They're far more likely to decide that biker = scumbag, and that is always going to be bad news for bikers. We need motorists to be more aware of, and more considerate towards, bikers. Kicking mirrors off may well relieve your (completely understandable) frustration, but remember that the end result may well be another biker in the back of an ambulance.

That's where we disagree then. Car drivers being concerned for the welfare of bikers is not a prerequisite for actually being careful and attentive drivers. A hard shock of having your wing mirror smashed serves as more of a wake up call than umpteen RSA adds that just get ignored anyway.
If a car driver labels me as a scumbag because I broke some glass and plastic off their car after they almost killed me then so be it.

Big Nasty

Rabidlamb wrote: »

The Motors forum has a reputation for being holier than thou & very finger wagging.
There's a small cohort that become judge & jury should you admit to any offence no matter small.

That chap posted, then quoted his own post and signed off with a rolleyes.

Is that the joke?

If so it wasn't very funny.

Anan1

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

That's where we disagree then. Car drivers being concerned for the welfare of bikers is not a prerequisite for actually being careful and attentive drivers.

Nonsense. An awareness that we're dealing with real people, people with families, is central to being a careful and attentive driver.

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

A hard shock of having your wing mirror smashed serves as more of a wake up call than umpteen RSA adds that just get ignored anyway.

No, it doesn't, and any motorist will tell you the same thing. You're doing it to relieve your own frustration, no more and no less.

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

If a car driver labels me as a scumbag because I broke some glass and plastic off their car after they almost killed me then so be it.

What about the other innocent bikers who might end up paying for your tough guy act? Do they not matter to you? Do you even realize how much damage you're doing to the cause of all the motorcyclists out there who depend on the vigilance & consideration of motorists to make it home in one piece?

Monty Burnz

LLU wrote: »

ah, I see I was miles too late to be in before all that stuff. Quelle surprise!
:rolleyes:

Um...unless a lot of posts have been deleted, nobody said any of that stuff...

Bodhan

It's easy to be critical of the OP but I recon we've all had some near misses of some sort, be they the your fault or the other driver.
A momentary laps at the wheel is all that's required for disaster to strike.

I just hope it never happens to me

Dilbert75

Are we all more likely to be that little bit more careful to not knock down a motorcyclist because:
(a) we think if we miss they may kick our car
or
(b) we think that if we accidentally hit them we may cause serious or fatal injury?

Might be just me but I think I'd be more concerned about (b). And I think that if I managed to avoid (b), I'd be pretty damn pi$$ed off that the guy that I had just managed to not injure decided he was going to damage my car in return for me not injuring him.

LLU

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Um...unless a lot of posts have been deleted, nobody said any of that stuff...

er no, maybe they didn't say precisely that stuff (which is why I said 'etc etc') but we have had that sentiment with the contributors who think its appropriate to take a boot to the car because its driver confessed to making a momentary error.

stimpson

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

I couldn't see how alienating motorists could make them any more reckless when it comes to spotting bikers, loosing a wing mirror might give them a wake up call or at the very least make them give bikers a wide berth for fear of it happening again.

The irony of this attitude is that it's harder to spot an undertaking biker without a functioning mirror.

Bruthal

Rabidlamb wrote: »

The Motors forum has a reputation for being holier than thou & very finger wagging.
There's a small cohort that become judge & jury should you admit to any offence no matter small.

Thats because they are fantastic flawless drivers while on their keyboard typing about it.

dr.fuzzenstein

Cuddlesworth

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

That's where we disagree then. Car drivers being concerned for the welfare of bikers is not a prerequisite for actually being careful and attentive drivers. A hard shock of having your wing mirror smashed serves as more of a wake up call than umpteen RSA adds that just get ignored anyway.
If a car driver labels me as a scumbag because I broke some glass and plastic off their car after they almost killed me then so be it.

Sixty kilometres a day, five days a week, 52 weeks a year in Dublin traffic at peak times and I can count the amount of times I have come to a no holds barred full brake stop in three years. Twice.

Your doing something wrong to have had that many near misses in a fourth-night, at least the OP has the balls to publicly admit he is wrong and analyse the event afterwards to find where his own actions could have avoided the situation.

Get some training or get a wheelchair(if your lucky).

-Chris-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXI8-_9FrB4

This video seems very apt.


@OP - fair play for spotting the biker and stopping before something worse happened, and fair play for trying to learn from it. Thanks for letting us learn from it too.

Tea drinker

Well, in clonskeagh today was watching traffic turn right at Spar, one guy crawled across the road in front of traffic dunno how he was missed. 5 seconds litter another dipstick crawles across the road on his belly, nearly taking out not one but two cyclists and an oncoming car.

I must call the Garda to ask could they send someone down to take a look at the shenanigans there, as we can only rely on good reactions and luck for so long. Also cyclists going contra flow in the cycle lanes etc.

Well done to stop OP, good learning experience for both of ye. (thank God)

Dilbert75

-Chris- wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXI8-_9FrB4

This video seems very apt.

Jebus that scared the sh1t out of me.

-Chris- wrote: »

@OP - fair play for spotting the biker and stopping before something worse happened, and fair play for trying to learn from it. Thanks for letting us learn from it too.

+1

ciotog

Well done to the OP for having the courage to post this here and the cop-on to reflect on the incident. The thread has been interesting and hopefully is something that people will think of when out on the road. I thought gbee's post was very good ('out of nowhere'). I commute by bicycle so threads like this help me stay out of trouble - you understand the risks better and get a reminder that hi-vis and flashing lights still mean your brain has to be fully engaged in travelling defensively.

galwaytt

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

If you ride every day you will know how often this sort of thing happens. I've had 3 similar close calls in the last fortnight. Two of them didn't even realise what they had done and the other gave me the finger. I have taken my fair share of wing mirrors and I make no apologies for it.

Yes, ****, happens. That doesn't warrant you being a vandal. What do you think the next guy, who's had his mirror wrecked by a noddy like you, will do next time there's a 50:50 on a bike.
Hey, who knows - maybe it'll be you, and the circle will be complete..... :rolleyes:

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

That's where we disagree then. Car drivers being concerned for the welfare of bikers is not a prerequisite for actually being careful and attentive drivers. A hard shock of having your wing mirror smashed serves as more of a wake up call than umpteen RSA adds that just get ignored anyway.
If a car driver labels me as a scumbag because I broke some glass and plastic off their car after they almost killed me then so be it.

'If' ? What you're doing is making yourself a target. Worse, you're making all those anti-bike rules and legislation goddamn easy to bring in: you're a bigger enemy to biking than anyone in a car.

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Are we all more likely to be that little bit more careful to not knock down a motorcyclist because:
(a) we think if we miss they may kick our car
or
(b) we think that if we accidentally hit them we may cause serious or fatal injury?

Might be just me but I think I'd be more concerned about (b). And I think that if I managed to avoid (b), I'd be pretty damn pi$$ed off that the guy that I had just managed to not injure decided he was going to damage my car in return for me not injuring him.

+1

Esel

Rabidlamb wrote: »

.... I prepare to hook right again

That's your problem right there.

tmcw

Thought my wing-mirror kicking incident was an isolated event, pretty disappointed that it seems to be on the minds of more motorcyclists than I gave credit for. I haven't ridden a motorbike in over 10 years (lifestyle made it unnecessary), but I never felt the desire to kick a wing-mirror off or a door in.

I know there is a lot of force/momentum keeping a bike in a straight line, but giving a car a kick sounds pretty dumb, you mightn't estimate the 'give' in the car good enough, the car might move out of your range, or you might hit a bad patch of road just at the point you change your momentum, and if you ever come across the CCTV footage on the internet of the guy on the scooter ending up under the back wheels of a truck, you'll never look at a bursting water-balloon in the same light again.

Sesshoumaru

tmcw wrote: »

Thought my wing-mirror kicking incident was an isolated event, pretty disappointed that it seems to be on the minds of more motorcyclists than I gave credit for. I haven't ridden a motorbike in over 10 years (lifestyle made it unnecessary), but I never felt the desire to kick a wing-mirror off or a door in.

I know there is a lot of force/momentum keeping a bike in a straight line, but giving a car a kick sounds pretty dumb, you mightn't estimate the 'give' in the car good enough, the car might move out of your range, or you might hit a bad patch of road just at the point you change your momentum, and if you ever come across the CCTV footage on the internet of the guy on the scooter ending up under the back wheels of a truck, you'll never look at a bursting water-balloon in the same light again.

I've never taken someones wing mirror in revenge, but I've been sorely tempted on occasions. It's sometimes hard to keep your cool when muppet drivers keep doing the same sh1t over and over and nearly killing you.

A careless and uninsured car driver put me in intensive care for 2 weeks before and destroyed my beloved bike. He tried to lie his way out of it, every passenger in his car gave a different version of events. The car behind me and the car behind him both gave the same version as me. But now it's like every near miss I know 110% the consequences for me if it had happened! I could easily be dead, no father for my kids and thoughts like this do enter my mind after some careless maneuver from a car driver. So far I've kept a cool head, but I'd understand the rage of some bikers who want to claim a wing mirror from careless drivers. It's wrong and probably counter productive, but easy to understand IMO.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I've never taken someones wing mirror in revenge, but I've been sorely tempted on occasions. It's sometimes hard to keep your cool when muppet drivers keep doing the same sh1t over and over and nearly killing you.

A careless and uninsured car driver put me in intensive care for 2 weeks before and destroyed my beloved bike. He tried to lie his way out of it, every passenger in his car gave a different version of events. The car behind me and the car behind him both gave the same version as me. But now it's like every near miss I know 110% the consequences for me if it had happened! I could easily be dead, no father for my kids and thoughts like this do enter my mind after some careless maneuver from a car driver. So far I've kept a cool head, but I'd understand the rage of some bikers who want to claim a wing mirror from careless drivers. It's wrong and probably counter productive, but easy to understand IMO.

By the same token, someone could sit 6 inches behind my bumper when I need to brake and drills into the back of me... but that doesn't mean I get out of the car and drag the idiot out for a beating, or smash his windows in.

If I had an encounter where a biker was an arsehole by kicking my mirror off, I'd not be sad to see him scattered across the road further on. Two wrongs do not make a right.

ciotog

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

If I had an encounter where a biker was an arsehole by kicking my mirror off, I'd not be sad to see him scattered across the road further on. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Do you really equate damage to your car with injury to a person? Is that how low the value of people has gone against property?

IrishZeus

ciotog wrote: »

Do you really equate damage to your car with injury to a person? Is that how low the value of people has gone against property?

I don't think he was equating "people" damage to property damage. He was making the point that exacting revenge (mirror kicking/beating in this comparison) is not a productive way to deal with a situation.

Its utter stupidity in fact.

Jimmy Bottlehead

ciotog wrote: »

Do you really equate damage to your car with injury to a person? Is that how low the value of people has gone against property?

I'm saying that it's not the physical damage that'd piss me off - it's the horrendous attitude and actions of this individual that would make me consider them not THAT big a loss to society.

And that counts whether it's a biker booting off a mirror, someone drink driving, a random unprovoked attack, or child abuse. Not everyone in society adds value, and their absence might improve things in some small way.

ciotog

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I'm saying that it's not the physical damage that'd piss me off - it's the horrendous attitude and actions of this individual that would make me consider them not THAT big a loss to society.

And that counts whether it's a biker booting off a mirror, someone drink driving, a random unprovoked attack, or child abuse. Not everyone in society adds value, and their absence might improve things in some small way.

I get where you're coming from although I don't agree with the sentiment.