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RWC Pool C: Ireland vs Australia, Sat 17 Sep 9:30am; Pre/During/Post Match Thread

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    #1622
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Australia
    Sport101 wrote: »
    They were lucky that Pocock and Moore dropped out at the last minute and that it rained though!

    For a start, Moore was finding it extremely difficult to make the side during the Tri-Nations. All this luft about him being vital is way off.
    Yes Pocock is a good backrower, but firstly, they weren't beaten in the backrow. Their entire pack was whalloped in almost every facet of the game. No single player would have changed anything there.
    Also over a tournament, you're only as good as your squad's depth. The Indian cricket team, for example, would attest to this.

    Rainy weather suiting Ireland rather than leaving them open to knock-ons, slips and midfield flips is a myth. You can bet your keyster dry weather was prayed for.


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    #1623
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Australia
    The irony about the Aussies saying Pocock and Moore would have made a big difference is that Pocock is Zimbabwean and Moore is Irish!

    Dan Vickerman is South African, Genia is from Papua New Guinea, Quade Cooper is from New Zealand, James O'Connor has New Zealand and South African parents and Kepu has Tongan parents and learned the game in NZ.


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    #1624
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Australia
    profitius wrote: »
    The irony about the Aussies saying Pocock and Moore would have made a big difference is that Pocock is Zimbabwean and Moore is Irish!

    Dan Vickerman is South African, Genia is from Papua New Guinea, Quade Cooper is from New Zealand, James O'Connor has New Zealand and South African parents and Kepu has Tongan parents and learned the game in NZ.

    All are products of the ARU's youths systems regardless. James O'Connor also happens to be a rugby league academy player.
    Stephen Moore is not Irish. His parents are. He's as QLD as Alfie Langer.
    Kepu is the only real blow-in. In my opinion, not worth his place either.


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    #1625
    Sport101
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭Sport101


    JustinDee wrote: »
    For a start, Moore was finding it extremely difficult to make the side during the Tri-Nations.

    How do you mean? Moore started in all of the Tri-Nations games, in fact he started every game for Australia since November 2010 up until the Irish game.

    As for the rain, a team with such a dominant scrum and pack, will be favourites in wet conditions especially over the Australians who like to fling it around and have often looked clueless in the rain ( game v Munster springs to mind). If we play them again, I'd definitely be hoping for similar conditions, in fact a bit colder would be ideal.

    As for the strength in depth, we were looking good with ROG, Sexton and Earls as 10,12,13 at one stage...thankfully about 4 mins were taken up with scrum resets so bod could get fixed up.


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    #1626
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Australia
    Sport101 wrote: »
    How do you mean? Moore started in all of the Tri-Nations games, in fact he started every game for Australia since November 2010 up until the Irish game
    Three of those games were last minute replacement before the game. Not quite as sure-shot as you seem to think.
    Sport101 wrote: »
    As for the rain, a team with such a dominant scrum and pack, will be favourites in wet conditions especially over the Australians who like to fling it around and have often looked clueless in the rain ( game v Munster springs to mind). If we play them again, I'd definitely be hoping for similar conditions, in fact a bit colder would be ideal
    A team with a dominant pack controls the game regardless of weather conditions. With a teamsheet like Ireland's, there is plenty of skill for running the ball. If you're to play a mixed-bag of tactics, the ability to do this is vital.
    Sport101 wrote: »
    As for the strength in depth, we were looking good with ROG, Sexton and Earls as 10,12,13 at one stage...thankfully about 4 mins were taken up with scrum resets so bod could get fixed up.
    What exactly does that say about Aussie's depth??


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    #1627
    MyPeopleDrankTheSoup
    Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭MyPeopleDrankTheSoup


    JustinDee wrote: »
    For a start, Moore was finding it extremely difficult to make the side during the Tri-Nations.

    What games were these, all Tri nations games I saw he was very good.


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    #1628
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,687 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    GerM wrote: »
    I bet BOD would have been caught on the halfway.

    Not releavant. Yes, I agree that Bowe is pacier, but IF BOD or any other great
    player was in that position they would have dived for the line. That is what Bowe should have done, and I am surprised nobody picked up on this.


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    #1629
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,687 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    phog wrote: »
    I watched the game again last night and have to say we were very lucky to have won it, our defence and forwards won the game for us, we never once really threatened their line. Australia could have scored about 3 tries in the last quarter only for two poor passes and a superb try saving tackle by O'Brien (?).

    With all the ball that was available form our scrums/lineouts we never once really created a decent move form any of your set pieces.

    What a way to try and piss on the efforts of a great team. They win, beat the Aussies, and we look for excuses? Typical. How about that in 80 mins we refused to let Oz get over our line? How about we beat them fair and square because we were plain better? What is lucky about beating Australia in a WC?

    You sound like George Hook.


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    #1630
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Australia
    walshb wrote: »
    Not releavant. Yes, I agree that Bowe is pacier, but IF BOD or any other great
    player was in that position they would have dived for the line. That is what Bowe should have done, and I am surprised nobody picked up on this.

    Or kicked the ball ahead to his left where about 3 or 4 Irish players were, they had all the time and space in the world to score.


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    #1631
    Bryson Wailing Plumber
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Bryson Wailing Plumber


    or how about we now, after we've settled, we can begin to analyse the game objectively and analytically.

    We don't need to ride the wave of post-win-orgasm for the whole year tbh.


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    #1632
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Australia
    phog wrote: »
    I watched the game again last night and have to say we were very lucky to have won it, our defence and forwards won the game for us, we never once really threatened their line. Australia could have scored about 3 tries in the last quarter only for two poor passes and a superb try saving tackle by O'Brien (?).

    With all the ball that was available form our scrums/lineouts we never once really created a decent move form any of your set pieces.

    Ireland didn't have to go for tries though because they were getting penalties from the pressure they were putting Australia under.


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    #1633
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    walshb wrote: »
    What a way to try and piss on the efforts of a great team. They win, beat the Aussies, and we look for excuses? Typical. How about that in 80 mins we refused to let Oz get over our line? How about we beat them fair and square because we were plain better? What is lucky about beating Australia in a WC?

    You sound like George Hook.
    profitius wrote: »
    Ireland didn't have to go for tries though because they were getting penalties from the pressure they were putting Australia under.

    I would advise everyone to watch the game again. We were fantastic, we outplayed Australia up front and our backs defended very well.

    However, there were a number of occasions when we could have easily lost that game. Only for two crap passes from Cooper, it could have been a completely different story, for example.


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    #1634
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,687 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Otacon wrote: »
    I would advise everyone to watch the game again. We were fantastic, we outplayed Australia up front and our backs defended very well.

    However, there were a number of occasions when we could have easily lost that game. Only for two crap passes from Cooper, it could have been a completely different story, for example.

    Yes, that is sport, that is life. Pass bad here and there, bounce of a ball etc etc.

    We won for reasons you stated.

    Why do we try and take the good out of these brilliant days in Irish sport?

    It's typical of George Hook. It pisses me off. No other nation does it.

    There are times when we win where we blame the ref for being "good" to us.
    It's pathetic. Enjoy and embrace these wins. They are damn rare.


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    #1635
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Australia
    I think its too easy to say the Aussies could have scored but didnt because of bad passes. Even if they came off they may not have lead to tries.

    The fact of it is they didnt score because they couldnt breach the defence, those passes were forced because of pressure.

    Ireland could have ran away with it if we took all our opportunities and they were there. Healy knock on on the Aussie line after the kick on by Kearney, Sextons missed kicks and grubbers, Bowe's run, went down the line rather than taking 3 points and we were dominating the break down and Aussie line out was poor. We could have destroyed them. If Aussie did score who's to say we wouldnt have kicked down the line and driven over one ourselves when we needed to.

    You can argue about this might have happened or that might have happened. But it doesnt matter because it didnt. Aussies lost because they were outplayed. And the only option they had to try and score was to take risks, and those risks didnt pay off. Ireland didnt take risks because we were in control of the match.


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    #1636
    Phonehead
    Registered Users Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭Phonehead


    Having watched the game again (this time not through my fingers) I am still really happy with the defence. It's very hard to know from that game if our backs in an attacking sense have gained some awareness of what is being asked of them - Les Kiss delivered with our defence, let's see against Russia how Gaffs attacking plays have developed now we have a new found confidence in the side.


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    #1637
    mgwhelan
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭mgwhelan


    from tv3 news
    Ireland head coach Declan Kidney has a few injury concerns ahead of their pool game against Russia in the Rugby World Cup on Sunday. While one former Australian player has been putting the boot into Ireland.

    Australian centre Tim Horan claimed that Ireland deliberately faked injuries during their historic win over the Wallabies in Auckland.

    Horan made the claims on the basis of a conversation he claims he had with Ireland assistant coach Alan Gaffney.

    "Ireland had a deliberate plan to fake injuries each time there was a breakdown in play last Saturday, so they could slow the game down and frustrate the Wallabies," he wrote on his column for a Sydney newspaper.

    Many supporters of the game in Ireland and abroad - including many Australian supporters - have greeted the comments as ‘sour grapes' on the part of the Australian.


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    #1638
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    walshb wrote: »
    What a way to try and piss on the efforts of a great team. They win, beat the Aussies, and we look for excuses? Typical. How about that in 80 mins we refused to let Oz get over our line? How about we beat them fair and square because we were plain better? What is lucky about beating Australia in a WC?

    You sound like George Hook.

    I thought I was entitled to post my opinion of the game sorry if it doesnt match yours :eek:
    Otacon wrote: »
    I would advise everyone to watch the game again. We were fantastic, we outplayed Australia up front and our backs defended very well.

    However, there were a number of occasions when we could have easily lost that game. Only for two crap passes from Cooper, it could have been a completely different story, for example.

    My point exactly, we were a few Aussie handling errors away from losing the game.
    Skunkle wrote: »
    I think its too easy to say the Aussies could have scored but didnt because of bad passes. Even if they came off they may not have lead to tries.

    The fact of it is they didnt score because they couldnt breach the defence, those passes were forced because of pressure.
    .

    If those opportunites were Irish and we lost the game would we be saying it was defensive pressure or poor handling that cost us the game?


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    #1639
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,687 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    phog, maybe I was a bit harsh. Look, we won, fair and square, because we were better. You pointing out IFS and BUTS means nothing. IF THIS, IF THAT. The bottom line is the Aussies didn't deserve the win, we did. Many rugby games are won and lost because of pressure, mistakes, luck and skill. Both teams can suffer and benefit from these. We got it this time, and fully deserved it. Why try and take the gloss off it with points that we are all aware of? Ifs and buts! You may as well simply declared: If Ireland lost, Australia would have won.

    If Roger Federer hadn't squandered two match points a few weeks back he would have made the U.S. Open final.

    It all means nothing. He didn't; end of.


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    #1640
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Australia
    phog wrote: »
    If those opportunites were Irish and we lost the game would we be saying it was defensive pressure or poor handling that cost us the game?

    Of course we would put it down to what we did that cost us the game. Whatever the result you always look at your own performance as to the reason.

    By the same token if Aussies had of won they wouldnt put it down to luck and say the Irish could easily have won to detract from the win. They would say they controlled it and Ireland had nothing only a few forced opportunities.

    I dont understand what relevance the fact that something may have happened if certain things went a different way. Stuff didnt happen the way the Aussies wanted because we controlled the game I think.

    That game was never Australia’s to lose, so talking about it like it was after the match just detracts from the fact that we outplayed them and deserved the win.


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    #1641
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,687 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Skunkle wrote: »
    By the same token if Aussies had of won they wouldnt put it down to luck and say the Irish could easily have won to detract from the win. They would say they controlled it and Ireland had nothing only a few forced opportunities. .

    Spot on. Other nations celebrate and are damn happy. Why do we want to blame a victory on circumstances? It's weird. We only won BECAUSE of this or that?:rolleyes:


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    #1642
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    phog wrote: »
    I watched the game again last night and have to say we were very lucky to have won it, our defence and forwards won the game for us, we never once really threatened their line. Australia could have scored about 3 tries in the last quarter only for two poor passes and a superb try saving tackle by O'Brien (?).

    With all the ball that was available form our scrums/lineouts we never once really created a decent move form any of your set pieces.

    I don't know.

    Scoring 9 pts to Australians 0 in the second half tells it's own tale I think.


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    #1643
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,687 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Yeah, was Hook a little disappointed we won ?

    Always. That guy is anti Irish. He cannot hide it. Always making excuses if we win and jolly when we lose. A horrible man.


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    #1644
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Australia
    I think Hooks problem was the big hit his ego took especially after his rant the week before.


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    #1645
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,687 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    profitius wrote: »
    I think Hooks problem was the big hit his ego took especially after his rant the week before.

    But it's every match. I think it's sickening to have to listen to this guy. I have no problem with criticism, but with him, it's a lot more than that. He is anti Irish, or at least anti Irish rugby. Those lads are putting their lives on the line at times, an that heap of sh1t hasn't a good word for any of them. He slags them. The gall!

    Wait till we meet Wales in the QF, and if we beat them, he will have his excuses ready.


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    #1646
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Ofcourse there is something to be said for being objective about how your team plays. After all, the game against Australia wasn't perfect, and we'd get turned over if we played like that vs France or the ABs.. So a lot done, more to do. :)


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    #1647
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I don't know.

    Scoring 9 pts to Australians 0 in the second half tells it's own tale I think.

    The way I saw it, we would have scored a try if any of the backrow caught the pass that went to Mike Ross in the Aus 22 towards the end, Bowe could very easily have scored (tackled barely 5 yards short) and Murray crossed for a try but got pinged for something that happened in the ruck (presumably).

    Ireland came a lot closer to scoring than Aus did, even if Aus carried a lot more menace in the backs from long range.


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    #1648
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    The way I saw it, we would have scored a try if any of the backrow caught the pass that went to Mike Ross in the Aus 22 towards the end, Bowe could very easily have scored (tackled barely 5 yards short) and Murray crossed for a try but got pinged for something that happened in the ruck (presumably).

    It wasn't who the pass went to that was the problem I reckon, it was the direction of the pass. If we had gone left at all it was a try. The Australian defence hadn't got into position and was defending narrowly. Two of our backs were out there looking for it and it went to a fatty trundling forward on the other side.


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    #1649
    burkomadlad
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭burkomadlad


    EVERYONE , instead of arguing , i think everybody will get a funny kick off this video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ldqFm2Ajxs


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    #1650
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Australia
    GerM wrote: »
    It wasn't who the pass went to that was the problem I reckon, it was the direction of the pass. If we had gone left at all it was a try. The Australian defence hadn't got into position and was defending narrowly. Two of our backs were out there looking for it and it went to a fatty trundling forward on the other side.

    No need to insult the man, it was O’Connell who wasted the opportunity. Perhaps have a dig at him for being stupid instead.


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    #1651
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    profitius wrote: »
    I think Hooks problem was the big hit his ego took especially after his rant the week before.


    He plays a character, a real life troll. The guy knows his rugby history, you have to give him that. I always find him as the comic relief and know he doesn't even believe half the shite he come out with.

    I kinda like him :P


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