Banned for racism

Brown Bomber

This is a nonsense. I never mentioned any race.

This is the relevant section of the post.

Maybe, but, it has to be criminal and the criminal nature has to especially nasty because the Israelis risked being charged with terrorism offenses related to 9/11 by staying quiet. Something along the lines of organ trafficking -- the Organ trading Rabbis were based in NJ -- or sex trafficking. NJ is a US HQ for the Russian Mafia. Or Suter may have been involved in MDMA distribution. Israel has cornered the world market in this.

Also they would need to have connections leading all the way to the highest echelons of Israeli society as it was these along with their Zionist brothers in the US who essentially sprung them from prison.

And then they would have had to somehow accidentally intertwined themselves in the whole 9.11 thing along with a couple of others vans around NY/NJ that day.

To put the above into context I was discussing a declassified FBI report on the Israelis arrested on 9/11 with a user called King Mob in Conspiracy Theories. The conversation, in part came to be about if the company they were working for was a front.

I quoted this from the FBI report:

Oddly equipment typically used in a moving company's daily duties was not found including work gloves, blanket, straps, ropes, boxes, dollies, rollers etc,.

King Mob responded:

Is the only possible explanation for not having this stuff in the van was they they were a front?

To which I replied:

No there are almost infinite reasons "why" but again it is consistent with something dodgy going on.

In his next post King Mob said:

Well assuming that's true, then even the dodgy is far more likely than the conspiracy.

And then I responded with the point above which led to the ban.

Hi Brown Bomber,

You have been banned from 9/11 for the following duration:

2 Month(s)

for the following reason:

Racist Comments

"the Organ trading Rabbis were based in NJ"
"Or Suter may have been involved in MDMA distribution. Israel has cornered the world market in this."
"the highest echelons of Israeli society as it was these along with their Zionist brothers in the US who essentially sprung them from prison"

You have provided no basis for any of these comments, and for so many of these comments in one post, I'm banning you. As your last ban was for a month, this one is for 2 months.

As should be clear I was postulating on what "particularly nasty" crime the arrested the moving company might have been involved in if their silence meant possibly implicating themselves further in one of the greatest crimes of my lifetime.

This can under no reasonable, accurate and fair definition be considered racism.

The crimes listed above i.e. human trafficking, organ trafficking and MDMA distribution are all real.

They were arrested in New Jersey. This report http://www.state.nj.us/sci/pdf/ocreport.pdf issued State of New Jersey Commission of Investigation will attest to New Jersey being a hub for MDMA trafficking and Israel being central to it and NJ as a hub for the Russian Mafia with human trafficking being one of their main earners.


Barrington didn't seem to be aware, so I guess I should link to the very recent case of the NJ organ trading Rabbis to avoid any confusion
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534838,00.html

---

There is a few issues here now as I see it 1) an unjust ban 2) I've been unfairly accused of being a racist 3) biased moderation - I got banned for "racism" because of (true) points I'd made linking crimes with Israel (a nation) but no mention of me linking (true) crimes with Russians; this is a double-standard.

Brown Bomber

I've just had a supportive PM from a user who I've never had any dealings with, which was nice and they've made a good suggestion - to quote the relevant passages from the link.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

They were arrested in New Jersey. This report http://www.state.nj.us/sci/pdf/ocreport.pdf issued State of New Jersey Commission of Investigation will attest to New Jersey being a hub for MDMA trafficking

The DEA’s Alexander Gourley pointed to characteristics of New Jersey that make it a particularly attractive destination for drug smugglers. He cited the state’s established abuser population, its proximity to major East Coast population centers and its extensive transportation infrastructure. He noted, “Drug traffickers exploit the sheer volume of passengers and cargo transported via this infrastructure to conceal their drug smuggling activities.”

Mr. Gourley also maintained that criminal organizations “take advantage of
the ethnic diversity of New Jersey to facilitate their drug trafficking activities.”

Brown Bomber wrote: »

and Israel being central to it (MDMA Trafficking)

Jamaican and Mexican criminal groups are dominant marijuana distributors in New Jersey.
And Israeli and Russian criminal groups are the dominant wholesale-level
MDMA distributors.”

Brown Bomber wrote: »

and NJ as a hub for the Russian Mafia with human trafficking being one of their main earners.

Lieutenant Zalisko testified that prostitution and trafficking in human beings earns
Russian organized crime $7 billion a year worldwide, its third largest source of profit behind trafficking in drugs and weapons.

---

Now if I've made "racist comments" so has the State of New Jersey.

IMO what I have done is made completely reasonable speculation in the context of a conspiracy theory. The very first word I used in the post was "maybe"!

You have five blokes arrested in a van, working illegally for a company which the FBI investigated and considered a "possible front" A company with a warehouse and a fleet of vans. A company who's owner flees the country to Israel the day after being questioned by the FBI.


…[W]hen they feel comfortable … [and] have established what they believe to be a clean importation record, … at that point they'll load up the container and bring in the narcotics. …[T]here’s a tremendous amount of money involved here, and they have tremendous assets …to come in and set up … a shell company, with workers in a warehouse in Newark or Elizabeth, to bring in some imports with … a legitimate business … [without knowing if they will] make any money

… . But … the goal here is not to make money off of that. It’s ultimately to
establish a clean record in the United States with Customs [Enforcement] so they can load up and bring in [a] container [with narcotics].
Martin D. Ficke, Associate Special Agent in Charge of the Newark Office of the
Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland
Security

And even if I am putting 2 & 2 together and getting 5, which I am more than aware of as it was simply thinking out loud, it is nothing even resembling "racist comments".

Brown Bomber

I'm reluctant to come across as pushy to the people I am at the mercy of but this is now the 7th day without even a basic acknowledgement. Has this fallen through the cracks or is there anything going on behind the scenes?

nesf

I'm sick at the moment, so not in a good head space for dealing with this. However I've alerted the other two CMods about this thread. One of them should take a look at it soonish.

Dades

I'll try to take a look at this over the weekend.

Sorry, been so busy haven't looked in here for a bit.

Brown Bomber

nesf wrote: »

I'm sick at the moment, so not in a good head space for dealing with this. However I've alerted the other two CMods about this thread. One of them should take a look at it soonish.

Thank You. Hope you feel better soon.

Brown Bomber

Dades wrote: »

I'll try to take a look at this over the weekend.

Sorry, been so busy haven't looked in here for a bit.

No worries. Much obliged, I'm sure this must be a pain in the arse.

I was just reading the offending statement and thought It'd be sensible to clear up anything else lingering.

Or Suter may have been involved in MDMA distribution.

-->

Suter = Dominik Suter. Who was the business owner of the moving company the Israelis worked for.

September 14, 2001: Head of Shadowy Company Flees US
Dominick Suter, owner of the company Urban Moving Systems, flees the country to Israel. The FBI later tells ABC News, “Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation.” Suter has been tied to the five Israeli agents caught filming the WTC attack. The FBI had questioned Suter around September 12, removing boxes of documents and a dozen computer hard drives. However, when the FBI returns a few days later, he is gone. [New Jersey Department of Law and Public Safety, 12/13/2001; Forward, 3/15/2002; ABC News, 6/21/2002]

http://www.historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=Suter&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on

Also they would need to have connections leading all the way to the highest echelons of Israeli society as it was these along with their Zionist brothers in the US who essentially sprung them from prison.

-->

Around this time intense political pressure is put on US officials holding five Israeli men arrested for suspicious behavior at the time of the 9/11 attacks (see 3:56 p.m. September 11, 2001). According to the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” lobby heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News, well-known criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also becomes involved as a negotiator to help get the men released. (Dershowitz will later refuse to comment on the matter.) [CounterPunch, 2/7/2007] ABC News will later report that was “high-level negotiations between Israeli and US government officials” over the five men, resulting in a settlement. [ABC News, 6/21/2002] Apparently the political pressure will succeed because the men will be released a few weeks later

http://www.historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=dershowitz&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on

Dades

Just discussing this with Barrington.

Will revert in due course.

Dades

I've just been through this incident, and also familiarised myself with any historical issues that might have been relevant. Where bans are concerned I usually try to take posts in isolation, however in the case in question I think the history is interlinked with the reasoning behind the ban.

Technically, your post is addressing other potential activities the suspects in question might have been engaging in, but the reality is this is just an opportunity to throw some muck in one particular direction.

But what makes this post worthy of action is that you have been banned before for almost exactly the same comments, worded differently (last line).

So, lets call a spade a spade here. We're all getting a bit tired of your obvious anti-Semitic attitude, and death-by-a-thousand-cuts style posting.

As far as I'm concerned, the ban should stand as clearly the previous ban did not result in an attitude adjustment. Just a grammatical one which doesn't go far enough to veil the motivations behind it.

That's my thinking on the matter.

(An admin will review this as a final appeal if you request it).

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Barrington didn't seem to be aware, so I guess I should link to the very recent case of the NJ organ trading Rabbis to avoid any confusion
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534838,00.html

I'd also like to point out that this link is provided by a Murdoch Family-controlled website. :pac:

Brown Bomber

Dades wrote: »

I've just been through this incident, and also familiarised myself with any historical issues that might have been relevant. Where bans are concerned I usually try to take posts in isolation, however in the case in question I think the history is interlinked with the reasoning behind the ban.

You think? Why do you think that? The ban was quite clearly stated for making "racist comments". Either I did or I didn't. Quite clearly I did not, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. I never made any reference to race whatsoever.

So is what you are saying is that I was banned for my history????

Dades wrote: »

Technically, your post is addressing other potential activities the suspects in question might have been engaging in,

Technically...? Actually my post is adressing that, you say it yourself That's what I was banned for. I've been banned for "addressing other potential activities the suspects in question might have been engaging in". Has anyone else ever been banned for this?

Dades wrote: »

but the reality is this is just an opportunity to throw some muck in one particular direction.

One direction? That's clearly false. I also mentioned the Russian Mafia. The only one direction I was throwing muck at was criminal groups. If they were Sicilians arrested in a van working for a front and I suggested that they might be involved with the Mafia would I have been banned?

I think we both already know the answer to that...

Speaking of throwing muck in one particular direction. This comment was made by Barrington, the mod who banned me in the Atheist forum which you mod:

Barrington wrote: »

It's not beyond the scope of this debate when their religion is used as the justification of the capital punishment. And by 'capital punishment', I mean 'murder'
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73841073&postcount=81

Their religion = Islam. He is saying Muslims kill people because they are Muslims.

In that same thread which you mod there is a catalogue of Islamaphobic statements.

(This is just a selection and up to page 25 only)

a UK Muslim is far more likely to rape than a non Muslim. This is a direct result of its misogonistic, anti-woman tenor.

How can anyone possibly think a religion which was created/invented by a "non peaceful man" be itself peaceful? Please please dont shy away from the question, the man was a mass murdering, rapist, paedophile who preached the destruction of all other religions......these are all FACTS.

Apologies if you are not Muslim, I just assumed as you are so resistant to facts

Muslims are many times for likely to be involved in a rape case.

I did point out the enormous detrimental effect a dedication to Islam can have everywhere.

Another thing which struck me as funny, in the opening of the debate for the motion, they use Zeba Khan. A beautiful "almost western" woman, non hijab wearing, liberal, open minded, tolerant, educated...muslim. This puts they're argument at a disadvantage immediately. Its the equivalent of bringing Megan Fox to mars and telling martians she's the average earth woman. Why not pluck some average real (percentage-wise) muslim woman from say...Pakistan?

There is a constant victim mentality (by Muslims), that reinforces and encourages the continuing cycle of violence throughout Muslim lands

Islam is a daily justification for violence, worldwide.

it is much much rarer than the near daily suicide bombings in the name of Islam, the routine killing of rape victims, the severe oppression of millions of women in the name of Islam.

it is not just "not a religion of peace" it a religion pretty dedicated to violence.

ACTUAL RACISM HERE
Indian Muslims are commonly involved in violence.

Your reaction as a mod these repetive racist and xenophobic comments?

NOTHING!

Perhaps not surprising as you've said yourself in that very same thread:

People who I don't have a soft spot for:

1. Muslims.

It's laughable that you justify a ban for making "racist comments" when there was no hint of racist comments and at the same time allow "racist comments" in your forum made against a people you "don't have a soft spot for".

Dades wrote: »

But what makes this post worthy of action is that you have been banned before for almost exactly the same comments, worded differently (last line).

They are not the same comments. This can be abley demonstrated by the fact that the banning Mod previously actually PM'd me to say that this ban was not deserved.

Dades wrote: »

So, lets call a spade a spade here. We're all getting a bit tired of your obvious anti-Semitic attitude, and death-by-a-thousand-cuts style posting.

Clearly not. I've recieved more PM's in support over this than I have for anything else ever on boards.

Dades wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, the ban should stand as clearly the previous ban did not result in an attitude adjustment. Just a grammatical one which doesn't go far enough to veil the motivations behind it.

As a mind reader your about as good as Barrington.

This was the offending comment.

Maybe, but, it has to be criminal and the criminal nature has to especially nasty because the Israelis risked being charged with terrorism offenses related to 9/11 by staying quiet. Something along the lines of organ trafficking -- the Organ trading Rabbis were based in NJ -- or sex trafficking. NJ is a US HQ for the Russian Mafia. Or Suter may have been involved in MDMA distribution. Israel has cornered the world market in this.

Also they would need to have connections leading all the way to the highest echelons of Israeli society as it was these along with their Zionist brothers in the US who essentially sprung them from prison.

And then they would have had to somehow accidentally intertwined themselves in the whole 9.11 thing along with a couple of others vans around NY/NJ that day.

There was no "motivation" behind it beyond contributing constructively to a thread. Every single point I made has been backed up on this thread. There was no "racist comments" nor any other rule breach. It's a shame you close ranks on this subject.

Dades wrote: »

That's my thinking on the matter.

Despite the above. Thank you for your time. I mean that sincerely. No hard feelings.

Dades wrote: »

(An admin will review this as a final appeal if you request it).

Yes please.

Dades

BB, a lot of stuff went on in that thread, and clearly some of it slipped under the radar. How many of these posts were reported by you? And no doubt there's a bit of context to be acknowledged too, such as that "soft spot" quote which was an obvious tongue-in-cheek response to an accusation of bias.

Anyhow, this isn't in my court anymore.

Brown Bomber

Dades wrote: »

BB, a lot of stuff went on in that thread, and clearly some of it slipped under the radar. How many of these posts were reported by you? And no doubt there's a bit of context to be acknowledged too, such as that "soft spot" quote which was an obvious tongue-in-cheek response to an accusation of bias.

Anyhow, this isn't in my court anymore.

For what it's worth I actually considered that you and the other guy/girl moderated that thread extremely well. You let the game flow so to speak and only intervened when absolutely neccessary. I genuinely have nothing but praise for your moderation from what I witnessed which is why I was shocked at your obvious double-standards here. I was rather hoping that common sense would prevail and you would treat this objectively and see that I didn't make any "racist comments" but speculated on a conspiracy theory in conspiracy theories and stated facts which I've shown all to be true, but instead you moved the goalposts. Ah well...like I said no hard feelings

Dades

Just for the record I want to repost some of what I said earlier in the feedback forum, now I've had a chance to go through that thread to see how you could drag up so much objectionable material. The accusation of double-standards stings, as that's not a way I want to be perceived.

----

That thread you alluded to in A&A is the exception. We don't really entertain much stuff there on Islam at all and if it wasn't for a few busy posters the thread wouldn't have drawn in a whole bunch of non-regulars who probably spotted the thread on the Boards homepage and jumped in with two feet.

For example the poster of much of what you quoted earlier has only ever posted in that one thread.

Yes, stuff got posted that went under the radar, but that's why we need Reported Posts.
I got one Reported Post for the entire thread from ed2hands for the post which I warned here.

Sometimes mods can't read every post in every thread, and that's when we need people to report stuff.

Brown Bomber

Dades wrote: »

Just for the record I want to repost some of what I said earlier in the feedback forum, now I've had a chance to go through that thread to see how you could drag up so much objectionable material. The accusation of double-standards stings, as that's not a way I want to be perceived.

----

That thread you alluded to in A&A is the exception. We don't really entertain much stuff there on Islam at all and if it wasn't for a few busy posters the thread wouldn't have drawn in a whole bunch of non-regulars who probably spotted the thread on the Boards homepage and jumped in with two feet.

For example the poster of much of what you quoted earlier has only ever posted in that one thread.

Yes, stuff got posted that went under the radar, but that's why we need Reported Posts.
I got one Reported Post for the entire thread from ed2hands for the post which I warned here.

Sometimes mods can't read every post in every thread, and that's when we need people to report stuff.

I do apologise if you feel put on the spot here especially since your not the one on trial here. I would like to reiterate that I genuinely felt that you and Robin moderated that thread exceptionally well. That said I could give you another list as long as my arm with equally ignorant anti-Islam statements and I find it hard to believe that you somehow could've missed them all. The inconsistencies are painfully obvious when comparing that thread to my post I was banned for.

With that in mind I would like if you would please tell me if you would ban me for "racist comments" on this post in A&A in the Islam thread.

This is assuming all of below is factually correct, (as I've already shown my post I was banned for was).

Maybe, but, it has to be criminal and the criminal nature has to especially nasty because the Kosovar-Albanians risked being charged with terrorism offenses related to 9/11 by staying quiet. Something along the lines of organ trafficking -- the Organ trading Imams were based in NJ -- or sex trafficking. NJ is a US HQ for the KLA. Or Thaci may have been involved in MDMA distribution. Albania has cornered the world market in this.

Also they would need to have connections leading all the way to the highest echelons of Albanian society as it was these along with their Arabist brothers in the US who essentially sprung them from prison.

And then they would have had to somehow accidentally intertwined themselves in the whole 9.11 thing along with a couple of others vans around NY/NJ that day.

This is a post that I've previously posted in CT (emphasis added):

I know nothing about your brother-in-law but I can tell you for certain that the KLA are terrorists that at least were in bed with bin Laden and co. and NATO/The CIA. Bin Laden wanted to use Kosovo as a base. It's a good example of how bin Laden IS CIA. Iran were heavily involved in the region in the 90's as well.

Not only are they terrorists they are organised criminals of the worst kind - human trafficking, organ smuggling etc.

Google "Council of Europe" "KLA".
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70378981&postcount=21

No action was taken against the above post. No action was necessary
Obviously you can't be anti-semitic against the KLA who are Muslims but perhaps you can see the pattern of my objection to organised criminal groups regardless of race or religion`?

Brown Bomber

i forgot to clear up previously something about your accusation of "anti-semitism". I can only assume it was related to the me stating the fact of the organ trading Rabbis.

It is a completely reasonable hypothetical connection to make when you consider the facts.

1. 5 illegal Israelis arrested a who worked for a front company in New Jersey in 2001.
2. These Israelis lived in Brooklyn.
3. Brooklyn Rabbis arrested for leading organ trading and money laundering ring by New Jersey FBI in 2009 in Operation Big Rig. This ring had been operating for at least ten years http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/23/2009-07-23_2_new_jersey_mayors_arrested_in_sweeping_money_laundering_probe.html

The idea of the religion never entered my mind. They are criminals. US Attorney General Ralph Marra puts in better than me

clergymen had "cloaked their extensive criminal activity behind a facade of rectitude"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8165607.stm

And to edit in -- If you have a problem with the mentioning of Rabbis in involvement in crimes then to be consistent you must therefore also be banning people left right and centre in A&A for any mentions of clerical abuse. Obviously this does not and will not ever happen there. So we are back into double-standards territory perhaps? It'd maybe be different IMO if I somehow just crowbarred in Rabbis and organ trading in for no reason. This is not the case. Which is why I quoted the conversation leading up to my post to demonstrate this and further clarified (what I knew from the beginning) with links and more information.

Dades

My suggestion of anti-semitism is not based on one single post, but on a history of them. The post in question just happens to mirror comments you previously received a ban for, and to be the latest in a long pattern. We can dance around it all you like, but we all know you have an animosity towards Jews/Israelis.

I'm done here, but the great thing about the DRP is that you still have an Admin to look at your case. I have no problem being overruled in the same way I have no problem overruling a decision I feel was harsh.

Brown Bomber

Dades wrote: »

My suggestion of anti-semitism is not based on one single post, but on a history of them. The post in question just happens to mirror comments you previously received a ban for, and to be the latest in a long pattern. We can dance around it all you like, but we all know you have an animosity towards Jews/Israelis.

I'm not surprised you think I'm anti-semitic if you can't tell the difference between Jews and Israelis and use both terms interchangeably.

I'd love to see a "history" of my "anti-semitic" posts because they don't exist.

You've reluctantly had to accept that there was no "racist comments" nor anti-semitism in my posts but the ban is based on some fictional "history" that you haven't shared and won't be able to find.

I'm being banned twice for the same post months apart. This is outrageous.

The post I am to be banned twice for was "tongue in cheek" as you claimed your "I don't like Muslims" crack was. There is hypocrisy everywhere you look in this.

I notice you never answered if I would be banned for this post. Which is virtually the same as what I was banned for.

Maybe, but, it has to be criminal and the criminal nature has to especially nasty because the Kosovar-Albanians risked being charged with terrorism offenses related to 9/11 by staying quiet. Something along the lines of organ trafficking -- the Organ trading Imams were based in NJ -- or sex trafficking. NJ is a US HQ for the KLA. Or Thaci may have been involved in MDMA distribution. Albania has cornered the world market in this.

Also they would need to have connections leading all the way to the highest echelons of Albanian society as it was these along with their Arabist brothers in the US who essentially sprung them from prison.

And then they would have had to somehow accidentally intertwined themselves in the whole 9.11 thing along with a couple of others vans around NY/NJ that day.

So I assume the answer is no. All I did was replace Israel with Albania. More double-standards.

Brown Bomber

Right, it's been 3 weeks now. Ample time to either substantiate the "racist comments" smear or withdraw. Likewise and in the interests of fairness substantiate the "long pattern" and "history" of "anti-semitism" and "animosity towards Jews" or withdraw the smear.

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Right, it's been 3 weeks now. Ample time to either substantiate the "racist comments" smear or withdraw. Likewise and in the interests of fairness substantiate the "long pattern" and "history" of "anti-semitism" and "animosity towards Jews" or withdraw the smear.

As before, plus one week. I'll just say that if there is someone looking for "the long pattern" and "history" they are wasting their time.

How hard can it be for an objective person to see that this isn't a "racist comment"?

Maybe, but, it has to be criminal and the criminal nature has to especially nasty because the Israelis risked being charged with terrorism offenses related to 9/11 by staying quiet. Something along the lines of organ trafficking -- the Organ trading Rabbis were based in NJ -- or sex trafficking. NJ is a US HQ for the Russian Mafia. Or Suter may have been involved in MDMA distribution. Israel has cornered the world market in this.

Also they would need to have connections leading all the way to the highest echelons of Israeli society as it was these along with their Zionist brothers in the US who essentially sprung them from prison.

And then they would have had to somehow accidentally intertwined themselves in the whole 9.11 thing along with a couple of others vans around NY/NJ that day.

Here is a definition of racism if it helps:

racism or racialism (ˈreɪsɪzəm, ˈreɪʃəˌlɪzəm) — n 1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others 2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

As I quite clearly wasn't referring to any race. The smear should be withdrawn. This is self-evident.

Dades never supported the actual "racist comments" ban. So why am I still banned?

The site can do as it sees fit. However, a mod clearly doesn't understand what racism/"racist comments" are and has quite clearly made a mistake. Knee-jerk reactions, external pressures, and so on lead people to make mistakes. No hard feelings on my part. Mistakes happen...It'll get cleared up in DRP...but no.

The ban is upheld despite the offending post not being even remotely actionable. Why? A "long pa tern" and "history" of anti-semitism - when no such history exists. Even if the history were true; which it is not, your setting some dangerous precedent here where you can be banned wrongly for one offense, appeal it and be banned wrongly for something else picked up from chinese whispers and be accused of something that you personally find vile (anti-semtism) without the banner offering any evidence.

I've been banned through conjecture.

Brown Bomber

Why is this being allowed to happen? To accuse someone of anti-semitism is obvious abuse.

This is from your own DRP charter:

We will not allow people to abuse moderators (or indeed any other members) in this forum.

LoLth

Sorry, I'm only seeing this now (post on feedback linked here). I'll review your request and have an answer , one way or another, thonight.

LoLth

Brown Bomber

LoLth wrote: »

Sorry, I'm only seeing this now (post on feedback linked here). I'll review your request and have an answer , one way or another, thonight.

LoLth

Much obliged. didn't know there was a feedback thread - cheers yekahs

I just want to put this forward as another example of the double-standards as it's important. I was just reading BBC News and I seen the story of the nuns & "missing children" on the BBC. I expected to see this in A&A forum (which Dades moderates).

And this is Penn's (formerly Barrington) -- the banning mods response in A&A.

Actually, how the f*ck is this not a bigger story? This is beyond scandalous, this is downright despicable and vile. Disgusting. Absolutely f*cking disgusting, and most of the media don't seem to care because a) it happened in a country where they speak another language and b) no celebrities were affected.

Everyone involved with this in the past 50 years should be jailed. Simple as that. Possibly 300,000 babies? This wasn't a small network, this was a f*cking operation. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74979645&postcount=680

Yet he has a problem mentioning organ trading Rabbis??? FWIW I don't have a problem with his comments-

Total hypocrisy.

LoLth

I want to apologise for the length of time it took for an admin to drop in here and answer this one. We do miss things and unfortunately this was one of them. (thanks to yekahs for the heads up).

First: this is an admin decision on what has been presented in this thread. I have read the background to this and I have reviewed your posting history, with particular attention to previous bans and infractions. In the interest of fairness I will leave the thread open after this post so you can respond after which I will mark it resolved and that will be the end of the matter. No wall of text please

There are three issues here that I can see.

1. the ban itself
2. the duration of the ban
3. the use of the term racism

So I will address each of these seperately.

To start the duration:

Boards.ie has , for a long time now accepted the practise of sequential bans increasing in duration. Different forums have different rates and some still hold the severity of the transgression to be the main driver of the duration. Conspiracy theories and its sub-forum 9/11 work on a progression of twice your last ban duration. You last ban from Conspiracy theories on 2011-07-27, 1:00 pm was 1 month. prior to this you had three 7 day bans . I'm not sure why the bans werent of increasing durations, perhaps this was before the mods decided to change their paramters for bans. In any case, 1 month was your last ban so any subsequent ban would be 2 months.

The use of the term Racism.
I agree that this term was probably not used with 100% accuracy in this instance and I would be happy to request any mod or cmod that used that term to apologise. However, there is a difference, very subtle, between calling a poster racist and saying that a post contained racist comments. From the definition you posted above regarding the term racist/racism, you are correct, your post does not fall into that category. The wikipedia entry on Antisemitism does apply and I think that was the term the mods were looking for and have used in bans and infractions in the past. The most notable part of the definition being

According to a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity."[1] In its extreme form, it "attributes to the Jews an exceptional position among all other civilizations, defames them as an inferior group and denies their being part of the nation" in which they reside.

Does your post contain technically racist slander/overtones? No. Does it contain technically antisemitic overtones. yes. For what its worth, I do not think that you, as a person are in fact an antisemite but I do think that, your post content in the conspiracy theories forum does reference antisemitic ideals and statements. I would guess that , at some stage in a Conspiracy theories discussion, reference to such ideals would be unavoidable as they are at the heart of many Conspiracy Theories.

The Ban:
as posted here already, you were banned for 7 days on 2011-04-13, 11:35 am for

anti-semitic remarks

The Dispute Resolution procedure was around then but you did not question the ban. Nor did you question the infraction that was awarded at the same time.

The wording at that time that resulted in a ban was:

Next you'll tell me Jews aren't over represented in porn, human trafficking, MDMA trafficking and organ trafficking.

the winky doesnt come through on quoting but smiley/winky/rolleyes aside, it was the content of the post that got you banned. (for singling out an ethnicity and ascribing traits and links based solely on a person association with that ethnicity - in the case of your post, Jewish people).

above you claim that it was a joke. It may well be and I believe you when you say that that is how you intended it. However, the fact remains that you were banned for that joke and the ban stood.

The current ban is for a post that contains many of the same elements. And this is where it gets awkward.

Being a Conspiracy Theory forum, it is almost impossible *not* to have discussion of issues that could be deemed anitsemitic. So a balance needs to be struck on how such topics are handled. I have asked the mods to review their forum with that specifically in mind. Initially my reaction was that the ban was wrongfully imposed. Then I checked what posts you were infracted for and what posts you were banned for. then I checked your general posting in the Conspiracy Theories forum. You do seem to have a tendancy to exaggerate slightly but just enough to make an incident more likely to be a conspiracy involving Israel as a nation rather than just a few Israeli people.

for example: your use of Rabbis (plural) when it was 1 Rabbi that was found guilty and others who were susptected were acquitted. your phrasing of Israel trafficking MDMA when the US Intelligence report mentions Israeli criminal organisations.

In the past you have received infraction and bans for similar posts but you have, to date, not changed your posting style or altered your approach to discussion the forum.

Not an easy one at all to call to be honest because I dont think you should have been banned for that post alone. I do think that you deserved the ban based on past interactions on the forum and past infractions/bans for similar if not identical post content but given teh context of the post I think an escalation of the duration was , while not wrong, unnecessary and it should be reduced to 1 month. This is one instance where mod discretion was used in the issuign of the ban and should have, imho, also been used in the application of the increasing duration rule. The mods hands arent tied and there is room for leniency.


so in summary:

ban stands on merit of mod discretion and forum history
duration reduced to 1 month due to the nature of the forum and the context of the post
Any mod that used the term Racism should apologise for a wrongful accusation.

I will be AFK with RL stuff for a day or two but I will be happy to address any questions or concerns from any mod involved or Brown Bomber when I get back. (I would have preferred to delay posting this until I could be here to answer properly and quickly but given the lag in admin response time so far and my promise to respond last night I felt it better to psot now and answer later).

Penn

I'd like to apologise for using the term 'Racist Comments'. At the time I thought this was correct, but after talks with LoLth and clarifying this matter, I'm happy to admit my mistake and that I was wrong to say it. Apologies.


Bans from 9/11 and Conspiracy Theories lifted.

Brown Bomber

Penn wrote: »

I'd like to apologise for using the term 'Racist Comments'. At the time I thought this was correct, but after talks with LoLth and clarifying this matter, I'm happy to admit my mistake and that I was wrong to say it. Apologies.


Bans from 9/11 and Conspiracy Theories lifted.

Apology is appreciated but not necessary. I apologise if I've seemed to single you out here. As I said before it's nothing personal, I just think you need to be direct when your appeal can be locked at any point without notice.

You've handled yourself with great dignity throughout and FWIW have really earned my respect.

Brown Bomber

Lolth,

I just wanted to thank you for the time and attention you've given to this. I now feel like I've got a fair hearing and that's all I ever really wanted regardless of outcome.

I do refute the anti-semitism claims, FWIW I'm sincerely rather fond of Jews overall, very prominent in the NAACP and the anti-apartheid movent in South Africa for example, but have no intention of demandin more of your time when you've already committed so much.

For my part I've realised I must strive to make sure that I must make my sentences as unambiguous as possible when the topics are so polarising.

Thanks again, and to all involved Penn, Yekahs and Dades.