The GAA - A Good or Bad Influence in Ireland

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Was the GAA's policy to mix itself up with politics and culture a good or bad thing for Ireland?

The GAA started out, not as a sporting organisation, but as political and cultural force designed to promote a sense of "Irishness" in an era of growing international nationalistic sentiment. No other sporting organisation in the world is so closely linked with politics and no other sporting organisation kept such discriminating rules in their rulebook for over 110 years (the ban on RUC/British forces joining the GAA, English sports banned from GAA grounds).

No other sporting organisation in the world has an aim to promote a language. It seems to feed off being anything but English. That's how it began and that attitude continues to this day. Has this had a damaging impact on Ireland?

Has the GAA's actions only deepened divisions between North and South? Is it any wonder why unionist politicians won't attend GAA matches given the GAA's clear stance on what it sees as "Irish" and it's subtle support for a united Ireland.

Judgement Day

I think that while the GAA does a lot of good in the country, and in some ways is the lifeblood of many a community, it is largely representative of one tradition. The ban on members of the British forces/RUC etc which was in force until fairly recently did little to endear it to members of the minority faith and it will take a long time for that antipathy towards the GAA to die out. The GAA being the 'IRA at play' was a phrase that I grew up with. I have never been to a GAA games at any level and it's highly unlikely that I ever will. I won't even watch it on TV. I dislike the way county colours, inasmuch as they are a real thing, are adopted by the GAA in the same way as Sinn Fein hijacked the Irish language. There's no point throwing up the token Prods such as Sam Maguire and Jack Boothman - as I don't believe they represent mainstream Protestant feelings towards the GAA. Neither my mother or her brother would have been allowed by the GAA to become members so it's hardly surprising that I hold the views that I do. I am doing my best to ensure that my sons stay well clear of the GAA (and Soccer) too - difficult as it is - due to the GAA is doing its best to penetrate every school regardless of tradition.

CDfm

I gotta admit that I got switched off the Irish for the reasons you mentioned.

Gold fainne in my yoof - I thought I would take it up when I came back to Ireland.

It wasn't for me.

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What I don't get is that sport itself (football) is so fundamentally flawed to be almost laughable.

Thus, why do so many people stick with it?

Well they say that the GAA just got around the country first in terms of setting up a national structure and because they got there first, the tradition just gets passed down. But it has to be more than this. Are people so insecure with their own sense of national identity that they have to play and support a sport that is completely flawed, unskilled and inconsistent?

I know some see the GAA as a sacred cow in Ireland, but their involvement with politics was nothing short of disgraceful and it baffles me how thousands seem to ignore their discriminating recent history.

owenc

hotmail.com wrote: »

Was the GAA's policy to mix itself up with politics and culture a good or bad thing for Ireland?

The GAA started out, not as a sporting organisation, but as political and cultural force designed to promote a sense of "Irishness" in an era of growing international nationalistic sentiment. No other sporting organisation in the world is so closely linked with politics and no other sporting organisation kept such discriminating rules in their rulebook for over 110 years (the ban on RUC/British forces joining the GAA, English sports banned from GAA grounds).

No other sporting organisation in the world has an aim to promote a language. It seems to feed off being anything but English. That's how it began and that attitude continues to this day. Has this had a damaging impact on Ireland?

Has the GAA's actions only deepened divisions between North and South? Is it any wonder why unionist politicians won't attend GAA matches given the GAA's clear stance on what it sees as "Irish" and it's subtle support for a united Ireland.

Hi i'm unionist and i live in northern ireland i think i can answer your questions. I think that it was ok to bring back the irish sports which is the GAA but they did not do that they brought it in as a political sectarian organisation a bit like the orange order and i am not supported of organisations like that so i don't agree with it. I think they were very sectarian and disrespectful to Protestants and still are to an extent, i have catholic cousins and they play all that nonscence and my mother forced me to goto a party in one of them clubs and i hated it, the whole time i was there they constantly bitched about protestants and it was just awful, so i defiantly think that it has made republicans more bitter, it reminded me on them meetings they have in orange halls, it was exactly like that type of mood except republican. I still view it as a republican organisation because it is and i've yet to see any neutral people in there. And whats this nonscence about them wearing those shirts everywhere i'm sorry but they look very tacky and in my opinion they are just wearing them to shove their culture down our throats a bit like people wearing rangers shirts , i know some of them aren't like that but the minute i see someone in that shirt its a complete turn off to me and i do my best to avoid them because i know that they will be the bitter type.

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owenc wrote: »

Hi i'm unionist and i live in northern ireland i think i can answer your questions. I think that it was ok to bring back the irish sports which is the GAA but they did not do that they brought it in as a political sectarian organisation a bit like the orange order and i am not supported of organisations like that so i don't agree with it. I think they were very sectarian and disrespectful to Protestants and still are to an extent, i have catholic cousins and they play all that nonscence and my mother forced me to goto a party in one of them clubs and i hated it, the whole time i was there they constantly bitched about protestants and it was just awful, so i defiantly think that it has made republicans more bitter, it reminded me on them meetings they have in orange halls, it was exactly like that type of mood except republican. I still view it as a republican organisation because it is and i've yet to see any neutral people in there. And whats this nonscence about them wearing those shirts everywhere i'm sorry but they look very tacky and in my opinion they are just wearing them to shove their culture down our throats a bit like people wearing rangers shirts , i know some of them aren't like that but the minute i see someone in that shirt its a complete turn off to me and i do my best to avoid them because i know that they will be the bitter type.

It certainly has a sectarian element, despite what the GAA supporters claim. They had one Protestant President in the 1990s and they use this token to show their openness.

The North has the Orange Order, the South has the GAA. Why anyone would support either baffles me.

cc4life

Our G.A.A. club is the only reason most people have heard of my parish. I have been training and playing for years now and not once have I spoke, or heard anyone else speak about politics or overthrowing any government. I think its a great association and its center of so many peoples lives. I dont know how people I know would survive without it. I would know very few people if it wasnt for the GAA. I think the anti-GAA view is outdated at this point and it has opened itself up to the unionist community in the north of this island. I think closing your mind to the idea is very backward. Thats my view anyway

owenc

hotmail.com wrote: »

It certainly has a sectarian element, despite what the GAA supporters claim. They had one Protestant President in the 1990s and they use this token to show their openness.

The North has the Orange Order, the South has the GAA. Why anyone would support either baffles me.

Exactly i think both them organisations should be banned especially the orange order and i'm unionist i can't believe they tried to punish a unionist politician for going to catholic funeral are they foreal! :eek:

owenc

cc4life wrote: »

Our G.A.A. club is the only reason most people have heard of my parish. I have been training and playing for years now and not once have I spoke, or heard anyone else speak about politics or overthrowing any government. I think its a great association and its center of so many peoples lives. I dont know how people I know would survive without it. I would know very few people if it wasnt for the GAA. I think the anti-GAA view is outdated at this point and it has opened itself up to the unionist community in the north of this island. I think closing your mind to the idea is very backward. Thats my view anyway

Well thats your view. You obviously don't see it from our side of the field, so don't come out with that one. Its fact the GAA is a sectarian republican organisation, they never were for protestants ever, they just did that so people would shut up and they won't get a bad name. In my head the GAA is for the ira type people, well thats what i get from most of those people anyway. They are bigoted and sectarian just as bad as the orange order. I think they should both be banned but of course sinn fien would never let that happen. Its them political parties keeping us back in the past. :rolleyes:

byhookorbycrook

owenc wrote: »

Well thats your view. You obviously don't see it from our side of the field, so don't come out with that one. Its fact the GAA is a sectarian republican organisation, they never were for protestants ever,

So why was Jack Boothman elected as president??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Boothman

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cc4life wrote: »

Our G.A.A. club is the only reason most people have heard of my parish. I have been training and playing for years now and not once have I spoke, or heard anyone else speak about politics or overthrowing any government. I think its a great association and its center of so many peoples lives. I dont know how people I know would survive without it. I would know very few people if it wasnt for the GAA. I think the anti-GAA view is outdated at this point and it has opened itself up to the unionist community in the north of this island. I think closing your mind to the idea is very backward. Thats my view anyway

What is outdated is the GAA's attitude - they only very recently discontinued their ban on members of the RUC joining the GAA and still ban English sports from using GAA facilities.

Even the use of the term "parish" which you mention is a sign of close religious ties that the organisation has, something that I feel is unhelpful in a modern republic.

Plus, isn't the sport itself totally flawed, dysfunctional, disorganised and inconsistent?

owenc

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So why was Jack Boothman elected as president??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Boothman

So what hes not a presbyterian its not the same i'm sorry that is very rare and they only liked him because he was republican. Anyway the gaa is a bigoted organisation and they bitch and bitch about us all the time when you go in there theres just that hatred type vibe in the people yous can say all you like but its there and i'm sticking to my views.

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byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So why was Jack Boothman elected as president??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Boothman

Cue the response about the token Protestant (as my earlier post predicted). Big wow.

The GAA was founded upon the belief that Irishness was to be anything but English. After the Famine, there was an increasing fear among some people that Ireland was losing it's identity and was becoming a mini-England. There was no genuine sporting reason for the GAA - because if there was a sporting reason, the sport would die.

England
Soccer
Speaks English
Protestant

Being Irish was
Playing GAA
Speaking Irish
Being Catholic

The GAA feeds off anti-Englishness and gives it oxygen.

Judgement Day

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So why was Jack Boothman elected as president??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Boothman

Tokenism?

mossyc123

Couldn't be arsed quoting the nonsense above so i'll just give some rebuttals:

Skill level:

Gaelic Football is probably on a par with the Rugby Codes.

Association Football beats both of them probably on a par with Hurling.

Exclusion of Protestants/Unionists:

The community who excluded us from bloody well everything they could for centuries.

My heart bleeds for them if they felt/feel left out :pac:

The security forces of one of the most Secterian states in Western Europe (NI until the '70's) had no right to participate in the games of their victims.

If you want a real example of exclusion from sport in Ireland have a read up on Belfast Celtic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Celtic_F.C.

Literally beaten out of existence by the usual suspects.


Tribalism:

It's the lifeblood of every sports code throughout the World.

Yankees v Red Sox in Baseball, Real v Barca, New South Wales v Queensland in Rugby League,etc, etc

Ever hear the saying "Sport is War minus the Shooting"?

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mossyc123 wrote: »

Couldn't be arsed quoting the nonsense above so i'll just give some rebuttals:

Skill level:

Gaelic Football is probably on a par with the Rugby Codes.

Association Football beats both of them probably on a par with Hurling.

Exclusion of Protestants/Unionists:

The community who excluded us from bloody well everything they could for centuries.

My heart bleeds for them if they felt/feel left out :pac:

The security forces of one of the most Secterian states in Western Europe (NI until the '70's) had no right to participate in the games of their victims.

If you want a real example of exclusion from sport in Ireland have a read up on Belfast Celtic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Celtic_F.C.

Literally beaten out of existence by the usual suspects.QUOTE]

Who is us? What are you talking about?

Your logic is that if one group is oppressed, they have a right to oppress them when they get the chance...warped logic.

I notice that you can see the exclusive element of the club you identified, can you not see that aspect in the GAA?

owenc

mossyc123 wrote: »

Couldn't be arsed quoting the nonsense above so i'll just give some rebuttals:

Skill level:

Gaelic Football is probably on a par with the Rugby Codes.

Association Football beats both of them probably on a par with Hurling.

Exclusion of Protestants/Unionists:

The community who excluded us from bloody well everything they could for centuries.

My heart bleeds for them if they felt/feel left out :pac:

The security forces of one of the most Secterian states in Western Europe (NI until the '70's) had no right to participate in the games of their victims.

If you want a real example of exclusion from sport in Ireland have a read up on Belfast Celtic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Celtic_F.C.

Literally beaten out of existence by the usual suspects.


Tribalism:

It's the lifeblood of every sports code throughout the World.

Yankees v Red Sox in Baseball, Real v Barca, New South Wales v Queensland in Rugby League,etc, etc

Ever hear the saying "Sport is War minus the Shooting"?

Do you seriously think for one moment that we'd be interested in joining the GAA! :pac:

mossyc123

hotmail.com wrote: »

Who is us? What are you talking about?

Your logic is that if one group is oppressed, they have a right to oppress them when they get the chance...warped logic.

I notice that you can see the exclusive element of the club you identified, can you not see that aspect in the GAA?

Us... Irish people... or are you one of those people who through a combination of loathing where your from and a feeling of alienation claim to be a citizen of the World not in anyway tied to a nationality?

Excluding the Oppressor does not mean you are being oppressive yourself.

It's reactionary and a maybe a case of not being "the bigger man" but oppressive?

No.

Don't understand the point you are making in your final para.

mossyc123

owenc wrote: »

Do you seriously think for one moment that we'd be interested in joining the GAA! :pac:

Right so, our Unionist Rep has decreed we can park Rule 21 as a stick to beat the GAA with.

Im OK with that

owenc

mossyc123 wrote: »

Right so, our Unionist Rep has decreed we can park Rule 21 as a stick to beat the GAA with.

Im OK with that

No you said we felt left out and i'm saying we don't

mossyc123

owenc wrote: »

No you said we felt left out and i'm saying we don't

Ah, so you want to continue to pretend to have a problem with something you don't actually have a problem with just to get at the other community...

How very Ulster Unionist of you :pac:

Nhead

I think there is a need to look at the GAA in an historical sense to determine if it was a good/ bad idea to become involved in politics and the cultural revival. Being an island wide organisation, geography plays an important part in whether or not a club might seem sectarian. Does the GAA have the right to tell it's members it's politics? We can't just look at the organisation and it's members through the prism of Northern Irish politics as I think that would be unfair to the ordinary member of a club from the far side of the island. What is clear is the game brings an awful lot of joy to people and that there is a spirit of volunteerism and community that people are attached to.

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mossyc123 wrote: »

Us... Irish people... .

Are Catholics the only real Irish people in your view?

jonniebgood1

hotmail.com wrote: »

Was the GAA's policy to mix itself up with politics and culture a good or bad thing for Ireland?

The GAA started out, not as a sporting organisation, but as political and cultural force designed to promote a sense of "Irishness" in an era of growing international nationalistic sentiment. No other sporting organisation in the world is so closely linked with politics and no other sporting organisation kept such discriminating rules in their rulebook for over 110 years (the ban on RUC/British forces joining the GAA, English sports banned from GAA grounds).

As it was a revival of Irish culture a view of whether it was "a good or bad thing" will depend on alot of peoples own backgrounds. I don't think that you are correct either to dismiss the links between other sports and politics in history. Take the Berlin olympics for example or the ban on south Africa in sporting events in the 70's and 80's due to apartheid. You are referring in this case to the RUC ban so we look at other sports in Northern Ireland. I'm not from the north but as far as I know there are many sports in the north that are divided on sectarian lines. If you wish to condemn the GAA for their attitude to the RUC for example then you must recognise the complexities of the relationship between the 2, occupation of properties, etc. Regarding the ban on foreign games, this is outdated and ridiculous but will soon be got rid of. Like alot of sporting organisations the GAA are slow to change but the opening of Croke park gives a good idea of where the GAA are going.

hotmail.com wrote: »

I know some see the GAA as a sacred cow in Ireland, but their involvement with politics was nothing short of disgraceful and it baffles me how thousands seem to ignore their discriminating recent history.

The rules they apply are becoming more inclusive. What do you mean by "their discriminating recent history"?

In general if you want to look into some of the more controversial aspects of the GAA then you need to consider the context of the situation more than has been done so far in the thread. There are problems highlighted so far without considering why some of these aspects are in place. For example if you say have a recent discriminatory history you should also consider if there are any valid reasons for this.

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jonniebgood1 wrote: »

As it was a revival of Irish culture a view of whether it was "a good or bad thing" will depend on alot of peoples own backgrounds. I don't think that you are correct either to dismiss the links between other sports and politics in history. Take the Berlin olympics for example or the ban on south Africa in sporting events in the 70's and 80's due to apartheid. You are referring in this case to the RUC ban so we look at other sports in Northern Ireland. I'm not from the north but as far as I know there are many sports in the north that are divided on sectarian lines. If you wish to condemn the GAA for their attitude to the RUC for example then you must recognise the complexities of the relationship between the 2, occupation of properties, etc. Regarding the ban on foreign games, this is outdated and ridiculous but will soon be got rid of. Like alot of sporting organisations the GAA are slow to change but the opening of Croke park gives a good idea of where the GAA are going.


The rules they apply are becoming more inclusive. What do you mean by "their discriminating recent history"?

In general if you want to look into some of the more controversial aspects of the GAA then you need to consider the context of the situation more than has been done so far in the thread. There are problems highlighted so far without considering why some of these aspects are in place. For example if you say have a recent discriminatory history you should also consider if there are any valid reasons for this.

Looking into the context of the situation seems like you're trying to excuse their disgraceful past. They had the ban on members of the RIC, then the RUC, in place from the beginning...not as some people think as a reaction to the Troubles. The police in the North picked on the GAA because the GAA had aligned themselves politically with the nationalist cause. The GAA were to blame for that (not excusing the behaviour of the police).

They still have in their rulebook the rule regarding English sports being played in GAA facilities. I find this deeply offensive to our nearest neighbour.

There are examples of politics interferring with sport, but not on the same level as the GAA. No other sporting organisation was founded upon a cultural and political context, with a clear aim to promote an anti-English agenda as a form of Irishness.

So many people have bought into this concept, because I can't see any other reason for intelligent people supporting a sport that is so fundamentally flawed, that it makes it silly to watch.

byhookorbycrook

hotmail.com wrote: »

They still have in their rulebook the rule regarding English sports being played in GAA facilities. I find this deeply offensive to our nearest neighbour.

Errrr....opening of Croke Park??

gooch2k9

They still have in their rulebook the rule regarding English sports being played in GAA facilities. I find this deeply offensive to our nearest neighbour.

I may be wrong but I think its a ban on competing sports, not english per se, those just happen to be the sports competing with it here.

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byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Errrr....opening of Croke Park??

The rule was only temporarily lifted, the ban on English sports remains in GAA policy. Still in 2011. And people support this organisation??

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gooch2k9 wrote: »

I may be wrong but I think its a ban on competing sports, not english per se, those just happen to be the sports competing with it here.

Foreign = English sports.

gooch2k9

hotmail.com wrote: »

Foreign = English sports.

No harm but thats a very blinkered view. You are twisting it just to support your view. If American Football started to grow bigger here you can be sure the GAA wouldn't be letting it on their grounds if it was causing them to lose members.

Like everything else these days they need money to promote and grow their sports, it wouldn't do well to be helping competing sports now would it?

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gooch2k9 wrote: »

No harm but thats a very blinkered view. You are twisting it just to support your view. If American Football started to grow bigger here you can be sure the GAA wouldn't be letting it on their grounds if it was causing them to lose members.

Like everything else these days they need money to promote and grow their sports, it wouldn't do well to be helping competing sports now would it?

That was the intention of the rule when it was founded in the 1880s - to ban English sports. They used the term "foreign" specifically to dig at soccer and rugby being English sports and to undermine that England was a foreign country.

So the GAA realises that the sport is extremely vulnerable to soccer.