The GAA - A Good or Bad Influence in Ireland

Nhead

hotmail.com wrote: »

Link what exactly? All of what I've said is common knowledge.

I mean link the founding rules that show they were political from the start or not and how that has changed or hasn't changed. Then we can discuss the history aspect and whether it has been a good or bad influence. I have never belonged to a particular GAA club so I don't know all the reasons behind the rules etc etc. I understand what you are saying about the RUC etc but again context is needed, a few documents. I was trying to look at the Cork Multitext on the GAA but the site was down. The only reason I am asking you about sources etc is that you brought up the topic. I have no particular axe to grind for/against the GAA

It is up again
http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/History_of_the_Gaelic_Athletic_Association_GAA

It is an interesting link that shows the role of politics in the association but also, like today, not all it's members belong to a hive mind and many fought to keep politics away from the organisation.

jonniebgood1

hotmail.com wrote: »

Link what exactly? All of what I've said is common knowledge.

As the OP was yours you have a responsibility to other serious users of this forum to provide sources that can be verified to substantiate the more outspoken of your assertions on this thread. I have no problem with people expressing minority or diverging views (I would encourage it for debate purposes) but there must be some basis for them rather than 'common knowledge'. I have asked you to do so nicely already but at this stage your refusal to do this is borderline trolling. You should refer to the forum charter and guidelines before posting again. If you cannot provide sources to back up your assertions then they are discounted in terms of intellectual weight. If you continue to do this I will consider it to be trolling which has consequences. So to be clear I am asking that you back up your opinion with a source. Further to this and because this thread is already fractious I would ask anyone posting to do likewise.

Moderator

HellsAngel

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

As the OP was yours you have a responsibility to other serious users of this forum to provide sources that can be verified to substantiate the more outspoken of your assertions on this thread. I have no problem with people expressing minority or diverging views (I would encourage it for debate purposes) but there must be some basis for them rather than 'common knowledge'. I have asked you to do so nicely already but at this stage your refusal to do this is borderline trolling.
You should refer to the forum charter and guidelines before posting again. If you cannot provide sources to back up your assertions then they are discounted in terms of intellectual weight. If you continue to do this I will consider it to be trolling which has consequences. So to be clear I am asking that you back up your opinion with a source. Further to this and because this thread is already fractious I would ask anyone posting to do likewise.

Moderator

Here, here for the mod. A lot of the OP's points I have seen have come from the Mickey Harte for President thread over on the Politics forum. It's all just hearsay and tee hee hee :rolleyes:

hotmail.com

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

As the OP was yours you have a responsibility to other serious users of this forum to provide sources that can be verified to substantiate the more outspoken of your assertions on this thread. I have no problem with people expressing minority or diverging views (I would encourage it for debate purposes) but there must be some basis for them rather than 'common knowledge'. I have asked you to do so nicely already but at this stage your refusal to do this is borderline trolling. You should refer to the forum charter and guidelines before posting again. If you cannot provide sources to back up your assertions then they are discounted in terms of intellectual weight. If you continue to do this I will consider it to be trolling which has consequences. So to be clear I am asking that you back up your opinion with a source. Further to this and because this thread is already fractious I would ask anyone posting to do likewise.

Moderator

Which specific factual assertion would you like to me to provide a source for?

I can't provide sources for my opinions or my observations.

jonniebgood1

hotmail.com wrote: »

Which specific factual assertion would you like to me to provide a source for?

I can't provide sources for my opinions or my observations.

This is the history forum so people give opinions on historical subjects, not just opinions for the sake of it.
So when someone says something such as:

hotmail.com wrote: »

It seems to feed off being anything but English. That's how it began and that attitude continues to this day.

They should back it up with a reference to a source that shows an example of what is stated. There are details on sources linked in my previous post.



Other examples of assertions that should be and probably quite easily could be backed up with a source are:

Is it any wonder why unionist politicians won't attend GAA matches given the GAA's clear stance on what it sees as "Irish" and it's subtle support for a united Ireland.

I presume this is based on some sort of story? It also seems unlikely that a unionist politician has never ever attended a GAA match.

It certainly has a sectarian element, despite what the GAA supporters claim.

I think particularly in NI you should find examples of this.

The North has the Orange Order, the South has the GAA.

If you make this comparison you should explain the similarities as you see them.

The GAA was founded upon the belief that Irishness was to be anything but English. After the Famine, there was an increasing fear among some people that Ireland was losing it's identity and was becoming a mini-England. There was no genuine sporting reason for the GAA - because if there was a sporting reason, the sport would die.

This one had me baffled but if you think there was no sporting reason for the GAA formation then a source would back it up. i.e. if they didnt actually include any organisation of sporting occasions for the first 20 years after their formation it would provide a basis for the expressed view.



I have taken these from the first page of the thread only to illustrate the point. As I said before all views are welcome here but by insisting that opinions are based on sources I can reduce the number of trolling posts on contentious issues. i.e. if it is a subject that you find interesting then you will look into it correctly before expressing opinions on it.

MarchDub

hotmail.com wrote: »

Which specific factual assertion would you like to me to provide a source for?

I can't provide sources for my opinions or my observations.

That's your problem here - like the mod said, this is the History Forum, not the opinions and observations forum.

You need to back up your statements with historical sources.

HellsAngel

MarchDub wrote: »

They were representative of Irish nationalism - not their religion. The fact that some of their religion regarded them as 'renegades' is the religion's loss - and a very sad commentary IMO.

"some " - being an undetermined or unspecified one http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/some

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have no difficulty with them being held up as outstanding Nationalists but they keep being put forward as being somehow proof that all Protestants in the 26 counties are closet Nationalists.

"all" - the whole of (used in referring to quantity, extent) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Can you tell me how MarchDub stated that " all Protestants in the 26 counties are closet Nationalists "

Tiocfaidh Armani

hotmail.com wrote: »

It certainly has a sectarian element, despite what the GAA supporters claim. They had one Protestant President in the 1990s and they use this token to show their openness.

The North has the Orange Order, the South has the GAA. Why anyone would support either baffles me.

Comparing the GAA today with the Orange Order. Someone section this person, save us from this kinda ignorant garbage.

jonniebgood1

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Comparing the GAA today with the Orange Order. Someone section this person, save us from this kinda ignorant garbage.

The poster has been asked to back up their opinion. Back seat modding is not allowed. By all means ask the OP to clarify or support the opinion as has been done already but a post like that quoted does not help this thread in any way.

Moderator

MarchDub

hotmail.com wrote: »

The North has the Orange Order, the South has the GAA. Why anyone would support either baffles me.

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Comparing the GAA today with the Orange Order. Someone section this person, save us from this kinda ignorant garbage.

Well three days later and we're still waiting for the source material on this one. I'm not holding my breath...

Fratton Fred

U

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I'm aware of that,hence, my question, would I be allowed demand to play rounders at a cricket ground?Just like hotmail is saying we should all be allowed play soccer at a GAA ground, by right.

Cricket grounds are a bit different because the wicket takes years to perfect and the wicket for a test isn't used for other matches.

However, I think Lords is being used during the Olympics for something.

Peep O'Day

hotmail.com wrote: »

What is outdated is the GAA's attitude - they only very recently discontinued their ban on members of the RUC joining the GAA and still ban English sports from using GAA facilities.

Even the use of the term "parish" which you mention is a sign of close religious ties that the organisation has, something that I feel is unhelpful in a modern republic.

Plus, isn't the sport itself totally flawed, dysfunctional, disorganised and inconsistent?

Just how ignorant can you be? GAA isn't a sport, the GAA is the association governing gaelic football, hurling, rounders and handball. The GAA disorganised? don't make me laugh, it is easily the most organised association in the country, if you cared to open your bigoted eyes you would see the fantastic facilities it offers to all members of the community. And you can quit your nonsense of it not being inclusive to everyone. I myself am protestant and i have never felt excluded or different to anyone whilst playing or whilst being involved in the club and neither have my brothers, sisters, parents, aunts, uncles or cousins.

Pride Fighter

It used to be said to be Irish was to vote Fianna Fail, be Catholic and support the GAA. I think the first 2 are rightly in retreat, but the GAA is our national game. Football is a relatively new game, but hurling has been played on this island for thousands of years. The GAA will never die and is the best organised sporting organisation on this island.

Of course its been a good influence on Ireland.

MarchDub

[QUOTE=Pride Fighter;74671882]It used to be said to be Irish was to vote Fianna Fail, be Catholic and support the GAA. [/QUOTE]


While I don't disagree with what you say about the GAA being ultimately a positive influence as this is the history forum I have to ask you where you are getting this from? What source does this statement come from? There were many Irish people - who considered themselves so and were considered to be Irish - who answered none of this demographic.

Characterising the past with just a random opinion is ahistoric.

CDfm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

U



However, I think Lords is being used during the Olympics for something.

If only hurling were an olympic sport

Tiocfaidh Armani

Disorganised enough to built the fourth biggest sports stadium in Europe. Unlike the IRFU and FAI they did it alone. The GAA are the pride of Ireland.

MarchDub

Fratton Fred wrote: »

However, I think Lords is being used during the Olympics for something.

CDfm wrote: »

If only hurling were an olympic sport

And Lords would be just the place to play it in! :pac:

Corsendonk

Fratton Fred wrote: »

U

Cricket grounds are a bit different because the wicket takes years to perfect and the wicket for a test isn't used for other matches.

However, I think Lords is being used during the Olympics for something.

Archery, Jonathon Agnew from the BBC Test Match commentary team will be commentating which should be fun since he admits he hasn't got a clue about the sport.:D He better brush up on his Korean since they fairly dominate the event.

bobbysands81

owenc wrote: »

Hi i'm unionist and i live in northern ireland i think i can answer your questions. I think that it was ok to bring back the irish sports which is the GAA but they did not do that they brought it in as a political sectarian organisation a bit like the orange order and i am not supported of organisations like that so i don't agree with it. I think they were very sectarian and disrespectful to Protestants and still are to an extent, i have catholic cousins and they play all that nonscence and my mother forced me to goto a party in one of them clubs and i hated it, the whole time i was there they constantly bitched about protestants and it was just awful, so i defiantly think that it has made republicans more bitter, it reminded me on them meetings they have in orange halls, it was exactly like that type of mood except republican. I still view it as a republican organisation because it is and i've yet to see any neutral people in there. And whats this nonscence about them wearing those shirts everywhere i'm sorry but they look very tacky and in my opinion they are just wearing them to shove their culture down our throats a bit like people wearing rangers shirts , i know some of them aren't like that but the minute i see someone in that shirt its a complete turn off to me and i do my best to avoid them because i know that they will be the bitter type.

My God... what a bigotted rant!

CDfm

MarchDub wrote: »

And Lords would be just the place to play it in! :pac:

Am I right in thinking that our Olympic Medal count was higher pre-Independence ?

Orizio

The opening posts in this thread - I couldn't get beyond them - are so utterly preposterous I don't quite know what to say. The idea that the GAA is 'the IRA at play' or that GAA = Gaelic Football just goes to show the level of ignorance one has to deal with.

I can't speak for the GAA in Great Britain but down here the GAA doesn't care in the slightest about the Irish language and in no way can it be termed a 'political' organisation, or at least not in recent history. Ask any local GAA player about the GAA being 'political' or based in the growth of the Irish language and you'll get a deservedly incredulous response. What it is is a pretty inflexible organisation (because its so legalistic and layered) that nonetheless does a pretty potent job of keeping Gaelic games prosperous

This is coming from someone who grew up in a hardcore GAA family in a hardcore GAA area, someone who who played hurling for 15 or so years and hopes to play again sometime and someone who regularly attends matches. Personally, I care as much about the Irish language and loathe the IRA/Shinners as much as Ian Paisley no doubt does; I do however think my life would be less entertaining if Hurling didn't exist, and by extension if the GAA (specifically the grassroots) wasn't around to keep it live and kicking.

MarchDub

Orizio wrote: »

The opening posts in this thread - I couldn't get beyond them - are so utterly preposterous I don't quite know what to say. The idea that the GAA is 'the IRA at play' or that GAA = Gaelic Football just goes to show the level of ignorance one has to deal with.

I can't speak for the GAA in Great Britain but down here the GAA doesn't care in the slightest about the Irish language and in no way can it be termed a 'political' organisation, or at least not in recent history. Ask any local GAA player about the GAA being 'political' or based in the growth of the Irish language and you'll get a deservedly incredulous response. What it is is a pretty inflexible organisation (because its so legalistic and layered) that nonetheless does a pretty potent job of keeping Gaelic games prosperous

This is coming from someone who grew up in a hardcore GAA family in a hardcore GAA area, someone who who played hurling for 15 or so years and hopes to play again sometime and someone who regularly attends matches. Personally, I care as much about the Irish language and loathe the IRA/Shinners as much as Ian Paisley no doubt does; I do however think my life would be less entertaining if Hurling didn't exist, and by extension if the GAA (specifically the grassroots) wasn't around to keep it live and kicking.

I agree that the OP and the statements that followed are incredulous and the OP never did get back and defend or credit/source the nonsense.

Fratton Fred

MarchDub wrote: »

And Lords would be just the place to play it in! :pac:

Lords Cricket ground is named after Thomas Lord who founded the Marylebone Cricket Club in Dorset Square (there is a great restaurant there called the potting shed, the original groundsman's shed). The MCC later moved up the road to St John's wood and the owners decided to name their new ground after the club's founder, Hence it is Lord's Cricket Ground, not The Lords' Cricket Grounds.

problemchimp

GAA is good!!!!!!

MarchDub

Fratton Fred wrote: »

However, I think Lords is being used during the Olympics for something.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Lords Cricket ground is named after Thomas Lord who founded the Marylebone Cricket Club in Dorset Square (there is a great restaurant there called the potting shed, the original groundsman's shed). The MCC later moved up the road to St John's wood and the owners decided to name their new ground after the club's founder, Hence it is Lord's Cricket Ground, not The Lords' Cricket Grounds.

Not sure what the point is you're making Are you self correcting?

But anyway I once [years ago] lived near enough to visit the grounds a few times [I like cricket] and have tickets a few times - and see the MCC go down to the West Indies AND the Aussies. Sweet.

But all this on a GAA thread? I think we are OT.

Corsendonk

CDfm wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that our Olympic Medal count was higher pre-Independence ?

I think that has changed with the boxing medals in recent years do it might be a good idea to start a thread on Irish Olympian medal winners. Some very interesting individuals such as John Pius Boland and John Daly.

Fratton Fred

MarchDub wrote: »

Not sure what the point is you're making Are you self correcting?

But anyway I once [years ago] lived near enough to visit the grounds a few times [I like cricket] and have tickets a few times - and see the MCC go down to the West Indies AND the Aussies. Sweet.

But all this on a GAA thread? I think we are OT.

The name of the ground is often mistakenly thought to be named after the house of Lords, but there is no connection. I thought that might be what you were implying.

As far as the GAA is concerned, how can an organisation whose main trophy is named after a protestant (not to mention an assortment of John Mitchel and Thomas Davis clubs) be considered sectarian?

I am an admirer of the GAA, my local one puts out over 120 teams which I find amazing. I have no doubt there have been people involved at times who see it as some sort of misguided display of nationalism, but other than having the "Head up its own arse" problem that most major sports do, I think it is a great asset for the country.

TakeTheVeil

The stench of hypocrisy and hatred coming from 'hotmail.com' makes me sick. I've never read something written with such obvious vendetta attached.

My personal experience of the GAA comes from coaching kids from 4yo-11yo. All I can say is that the kids love coming down after school during the week, down on Saturdays for matches, down to the summer and easter camps.

We've ran joint fundraisers with the local soccer teams, which many of the kids also play for..., we've had trips up bowling, swimming, basketball, go-karting, etc.. taken trips to compete in inter-county blitz's.

Its a hugely inclusive community center. We've a huge diversity of ethnicity and religion within the juvenile set up. We're associated with the local schools and cover P.E. classes if they're in need. We've organised getting the Sam Maguire down to the schools in November for a family day (competitions, bouncey castles, BBQs, games) all in aid of Crumlin Children's Hospital.

This is the GAA in my experience. It reflects the society and community. If you take 100 random people and 100 'GAA' people.. there would be little difference. But of course this all means nothing to people with such a myopic hate-filled view of the people of this country. If you believe these people, there is a 1,000,000 strong IRA army in waiting across the country

MarchDub

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The name of the ground is often mistakenly thought to be named after the house of Lords, but there is no connection. I thought that might be what you were implying.

Oh no, I never even heard of that 'mistake' as you call it. I made no connection at all with the House of Lords and never knew that anyone did.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

As far as the GAA is concerned, how can an organisation whose main trophy is named after a protestant (not to mention an assortment of John Mitchel and Thomas Davis clubs) be considered sectarian?

I am an admirer of the GAA, my local one puts out over 120 teams which I find amazing. I have no doubt there have been people involved at times who see it as some sort of misguided display of nationalism, but other than having the "Head up its own arse" problem that most major sports do, I think it is a great asset for the country.

Yes, agree - and this thread is really off the wall on some of this stuff.
The history of the GAA shows its positive influence on Irish sport and life IMO.

Judgement Day

Padraig Pearses GAA Club, Roscommon and Liam Mellows GAA Club in County Wexford , Sean Mac Diarmada GFC in Monaghan, Fenians in County Kilkenny, Austin Stacks in County Kerry amongst many, many others......no hint of sectarianism at all. :rolleyes:

Plenty more here: http://www.clubgaa.ie/

PS As I think I said in a previous post, on balance, I would say that the GAA has been very good for the country.