The GAA - A Good or Bad Influence in Ireland

Tiocfaidh Armani

Judgement Day wrote: »

Padraig Pearses GAA Club, Roscommon and Liam Mellows GAA Club in County Wexford , Sean Mac Diarmada GFC in Monaghan, Fenians in County Kilkenny, Austin Stacks in County Kerry amongst many, many others......no hint of sectarianism at all. :rolleyes:

Plenty more here: http://www.clubgaa.ie/

PS As I think I said in a previous post, on balance, I would say that the GAA has been very good for the country.

Calling your clubs after Irish patriots is sectarianism? What a messed up country we are.:rolleyes:

Judgement Day

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Calling your clubs after Irish patriots is sectarianism? What a messed up country we are.:rolleyes:

Whatever you call it, it's hardly welcoming to members of minority communities is it? How many Irish rugby/cricket/hockey clubs are named after the Duke of Wellington, Edward Carson, Lord Roberts, Henry Wilson, Ernest Shackleton etc.etc. Anyway that's my lot for now - sorry if you can't deal with it.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Judgement Day wrote: »

Whatever you call it, it's hardly welcoming to members of minority communities is it? How many Irish rugby/cricket/hockey clubs are named after the Duke of Wellington, Edward Carson, Lord Roberts, Henry Wilson, Ernest Shackleton etc.etc. Anyway that's my lot for now - sorry if you can't deal with it.

So we should not do anything incase it offends a minority who are being unreasonable if they can take offence to us honouring our dead.

Catch a grip. Only 4% of the 26 counties is Protestant and how many of them are actually orange? Not many, so if there's a small element who hate us, we should adapt to cater for THEIR bigotry and hatred. No thank you. I'm Irish and I'm proud of those who died for MY freedom. The people who tried to keep us under their rule can bolt, I don't care about their feelings if they wanna begrudge us honouring our dead.

PS, I couldn't give a hoot who they name their clubs after, that's their business.

LordSutch

Personally speaking I think the GAA is probably a good influence on those who belong to 'that tribe'.

Judgement Day

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

So we should not do anything incase it offends a minority who are being unreasonable if they can take offence to us honouring our dead.

Catch a grip. Only 4% of the 26 counties is Protestant and how many of them are actually orange? Not many, so if there's a small element who hate us, we should adapt to cater for THEIR bigotry and hatred. No thank you. I'm Irish and I'm proud of those who died for MY freedom. The people who tried to keep us under their rule can bolt, I don't care about their feelings if they wanna begrudge us honouring our dead.

If anybody has an agenda here or is mixed up, it's you. I don't take offence over the GAA - I ignore them - and I don't hate anybody for political/religious reasons. The patriots of 1916/1922 did not die for my freedom and as such I don't feel obliged to honour them. As regards how many Unionists/Orange supporters there are on the island - I should think give or take 750,000 but I don't know.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Judgement Day wrote: »

If anybody has an agenda here or is mixed up, it's you. I don't take offence over the GAA - I ignore them - and I don't hate anybody for political/religious reasons. The patriots of 1916/1922 did not die for my freedom and as such I don't feel obliged to honour them. As regards how many Unionists/Orange supporters there are on the island - I should think give or take 750,000 but I don't know.

I don't hate anybody, but I know there's plenty who hate Ireland and those who died for it. They can bolt imo, I don't care what anyone of an orange persuasion thinks or feels, do they care about mine? Just like I say let them have their silly walks about religious crap that happened centuries ago, I like to see my GAA clubs being named after our patriots, as I'm sure GAA members do because I don't see them complain about it and I'm in a GAA club named after Bobby Sands and I've had Rangers fans on my team and I've never heard any of them complain once.

Maybe you're offended for people who aren't offended. It's always the way with the Irish. Hide what we are because a minority who hate everything we stand for won't like it but if there was a cricket or rugby club named after a unionist you'd probably be defending their right to have it (and rightly so). So don't dictate to us about who we name our CLUBS after and call us bigots. The bigots are those who have an issue with the names in the first place. They're there to honour their name and memory, nothing else.

Judgement Day

I wouldn't be defending the right of any sporting club to involve politics of any persuasion in its name or ethos. Anyway, I think we taken the thread way off topic - if it were ever suitable for the History& Heritage Forum.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Judgement Day wrote: »

I wouldn't be defending the right of any sporting club to involve politics of any persuasion in its name or ethos. Anyway, I think we taken the thread way off topic - if it were ever suitable for the History& Heritage Forum.

It's like saying you're against naming streets and train stations after these people because that would be involving politics into our street names and train stations. Read the history of the GAA, it's not just a sporting body.

MarchDub

Judgement Day wrote: »

I The patriots of 1916/1922 did not die for my freedom and as such I don't feel obliged to honour them. .

Then I suggest that you at least give respect to those of us who do honour them. I find your posts on this topic to be offensive.

And you're right - this level of attack on nationalist heroes does not belong on the History and Heritage Forum.

Judgement Day

MarchDub wrote: »

Then I suggest that you at least give respect to those of us who do honour them. I find your posts on this topic to be offensive.

And you're right - this level of attack on nationalist heroes does not belong on the History and Heritage Forum.

I'm sorry but I don't see anything offensive in my postings in this thread. Perhaps you should develop a thicker skin as it is usually the normal (sane) Unionist posters who have to put up with a load of Republican bile - even down to offensive usernames.

MarchDub

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't see anything offensive in my postings in this thread. Perhaps you should develop a thicker skin as it is usually the normal (sane) Unionist posters who have to put up with a load of Republican bile - even down to offensive usernames.

To suggest that Unionism is normal and sane and therefore anything else is what? abnormal and insane is not offensive?


I suggest you read up on what some of the 'unionist' posters have posted in the past.

CDfm

AFAIR - we won more Olympic medals pre Independence than post.

Until 1949 we were in the Commonwealth - so what about the commonwealth games - did Ireland attend.

What was the attitude to other foreign sports. Cuchullain didnt play tennis ?

Nhead

I think that the OPs mind was made up on the GAA and as MarchDub has pointed out the op never backed up his/her opinion with any historical sources. There are time when both unionist and republican posters can be as sane/ insane as anyone else.

MarchDub

CDfm wrote: »

AFAIR - we won more Olympic medals pre Independence than post.

Until 1949 we were in the Commonwealth - so what about the commonwealth games - did Ireland attend.

What was the attitude to other foreign sports. Cuchullain didnt play tennis ?

"We" were 32 counties back then prior to independence I have to presume - and weren't we listed under Great Britain's total - and not United Kingdom which I still don't think they go as?

In Cuchulainn's era no one played tennis AFAIK - but who knows what future archeological digs might dig up.;)

Judgement Day

MarchDub wrote: »

To suggest that Unionism is normal and sane and therefore anything else is what? abnormal and insane is not offensive?


I suggest you read up on what some of the 'unionist' posters have posted in the past.

You seem determined to have a row about this but I'm not getting involved. You well know who I mean when I say normal (sane) Unionists, among which I include myself, and you also well know who are the head-the-balls.

MarchDub

Nhead wrote: »

I think that the OPs mind was made up on the GAA and as MarchDub has pointed out the op never backed up his/her opinion with any historical sources.

Thank you - I have been trying to make that point for some time.

MarchDub

Judgement Day wrote: »

You seem determined to have a row about this but I'm not getting involved. You well know who I mean when I say normal (sane) Unionists, among which I include myself, and you also well know who are the head-the-balls.

You can't play that 'not involved' role with me. Your posts were what they were - involvement with some slagging remarks about Irish historic figures. Own it.

CDfm

MarchDub wrote: »

"We" were 32 counties back then prior to independence I have to presume - and weren't we listed under Great Britain's total - and not United Kingdom which I still don't think they go as?

I spose the ban's did really have affects on communities.

In Cuchulainn's era no one played tennis AFAIK - but who knows what future archeological digs might dig up.;)

Apparently it originates with Catholic monks in medieval France and Mary Queen of Scots popularised golf.

Chuck Stone

Judgement Day wrote: »

I think that while the GAA does a lot of good in the country, and in some ways is the lifeblood of many a community, it is largely representative of one tradition.

So what? How much of this is the fault of the GAA?

The ban on members of the British forces/RUC etc which was in force until fairly recently did little to endear it to members of the minority faith and it will take a long time for that antipathy towards the GAA to die out.

So you wanted people to welcome their oppressors into their sporting lives as well as having to deal with being discriminated by them? Sweet Jesus what is going on here?

The GAA being the 'IRA at play' was a phrase that I grew up with.

I can't believe nobody has called you out on this.

This lie cost many innocent people their lives due to bilious hatred by loyalst murder gangs. It is an insult to their memories. Maybe you should ask the people who told you these lies to explain why they told them to you.

I have never been to a GAA games at any level and it's highly unlikely that I ever will. I won't even watch it on TV. I dislike the way county colours, inasmuch as they are a real thing, are adopted by the GAA in the same way as Sinn Fein hijacked the Irish language.

You dislike how county colours are adopted by the GAA? And the adoption of county colours is akin to hijacking of the Irish language? (If indeed it was hijacked by SF at all)

There's no point throwing up the token Prods such as Sam Maguire and Jack Boothman - as I don't believe they represent mainstream Protestant feelings towards the GAA.

Of course not because they set fire to your strawman. What is this? Pre-emptive strawman fire proofing?

I am doing my best to ensure that my sons stay well clear of the GAA (and Soccer) too - difficult as it is - due to the GAA is doing its best to penetrate every school regardless of tradition.

So in one breath you are complaining about the GAA not welcoming minorities and yet it 'is doing it best to penetrate every school regardless of tradition'? Make up your mind. :rolleyes:

Regardless, I think the GAA might be better if people with such thinly veiled prejudice weren't involved at all.

Btw maybe you should let your sons make up their own minds. I grew up a Nationalist in a soccer and GAA house and I am a lover of Rugby Union completely because of my own fascination with the sport.

CDfm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Btw maybe you should let your sons make up their own minds. I grew up a Nationalist in a soccer and GAA house and I am a lover of Rugby Union completely because of my own fascination with the sport.

I am glad you didnt mention tennis.One of Irelands best tennis players Vere St Leger Goold was convicted of murder.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon/2315751/Leaving-the-locker-room-behind.html

Dades

Some good discussion here, people. Just leave the overtly sectarian stuff aside and this thread can stay open.

Corsendonk

CDfm wrote: »

AFAIR - we won more Olympic medals pre Independence than post.

Are you including Irish that competed for Nations beside GB in your pre independence tally?

Until 1949 we were in the Commonwealth - so what about the commonwealth games - did Ireland attend.

It was the Empire Games before 1951, due to WW2 it was only staged 3 times before Ireland left the Empire.

1930 Hamilton Ontario
An All Ireland Team Represented Ireland
Silver Medal Bill Britton Hammer

1934 London
Free State and Northern Ireland Teams took part
Free State won no Medals
Northern Ireland 1 Silver 2 Bronzes
Lawn Bowls Team(Percy Watson. George Watson, Charlie Clawson, Cecil Curran) Silver Medal
Boxing Welterweight William Duncan Bronze Medal
Boxing Middleweight Jimmy Magill Bronze Medal


1938 Sydney
Free State did not take part
Northern Ireland didn't win any medals

What was the attitude to other foreign sports. Cuchullain didnt play tennis

The major foreign sport that the GAA has adopted IMHO is Basketball. Who influenced that?

CDfm

CDfm wrote: »

A guy Bill Britton won a Silver Medal at the 1930 Commonwealth Games. The Irish dominated hammer throwing in Britain and the US at different times.

http://www.lindienaughton.com/letters_and_articles/irish_olympians.html

One guy Dr Pat O'Callaghan unable to acquire a hammer "acquired" a cannonball from Macroom castle and a blacksmith did the rest .:pac:

Thinks like sport were very mixed up for a few years.

I just wonder how these guys fitted in ?

Cill Dara Abu

cc4life wrote: »

Our G.A.A. club is the only reason most people have heard of my parish. I have been training and playing for years now and not once have I spoke, or heard anyone else speak about politics or overthrowing any government. I think its a great association and its center of so many peoples lives. I dont know how people I know would survive without it. I would know very few people if it wasnt for the GAA. I think the anti-GAA view is outdated at this point and it has opened itself up to the unionist community in the north of this island. I think closing your mind to the idea is very backward. Thats my view anyway

+1

The GAA is pretty much my life, I play, watch, read and I train the U12s i my club.

My life would be boring if it was not for the GAA, it's a great social outlet too.

Politics and sport have no place together!

The whole Rule 42 debacle didn't register in my club atall or indeed with me, it was a media driven story and nothing more.

CDfm

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

+1

The GAA is pretty much my life, I play, watch, read and I train the U12s i my club.

My life would be boring if it was not for the GAA, it's a great social outlet too.

Politics and sport have no place together!

And thats probably what the irish cricketers of yesteryear thought too.

The whole Rule 42 debacle didn't register in my club atall or indeed with me, it was a media driven story and nothing more.

It was definately a cultural thing when I was growing up and it may have not registered at your club but there was a huge social exclusion.

pedroeibar1

I have two individuals in strands in my ancestry that are closely linked to the actual foundation of the GAA. Both individuals were Fenians and proud of it, but from their writings it can be inferred that they were quite bigoted, as was my grandfather, who also held senior (elected) positions in the GAA.

As for the GAA’s roots in politics, the facts are very clear: the IRBinfiltrated the GAA from the outset and its attempt to gain control almost led to a split. In 1887 at a meeting in Thurles to elect a new president, Bennet, the IRB nominee defeated Maurice Davin, a founder member, by 316 votes to 210. The usual faction/split started to happen and it took Archbishop Croke to bring (order?) both sides together. A deal was brokered and at a Special Congress, in January 1888, Maurice Davin was re-elected as President of the GAA. However, the political undertone always remained.

I never agreed with ‘the ban’, it did a disservice to the organization as did the frequent ‘patriotism’ of the rabid Republican type propounded by some of its officers. Similarly, in the past I found the exclusion policies of some golf and yacht clubs equally offensive. That said, the GAA has done and continues to do some fantastic work, but like all big organizations, it contains its share of bigots.

Talking about tennis and medals, don’t forget John Pius Boland, the Irish Parliamentary Party MP for South Kerry. A lawyer, Boland studied at Oxford and at Bonn. When visiting a university friend, Thrasyvoalos Manaos, in Athens at the first modern Olympics in 1896, Manaos entered him in the tennis tournament. Boland promptly won the singles tournament, becoming the first winner of a Gold for tennis in the modern Olympics. He then entered the doubles event with Traun, the German runner whom he had defeated in the first round of the singles. Together, they won the doubles event.
Sport, not politics.
Rs
P.

CDfm

Was Rule 42 was the Ne temere of sport ?

MarchDub

Let me say this “I am not now nor have I ever been a member” of the GAA. My interest here is in keeping the information within a historic frame and backing up opinions with due source material. Something that is consistently lacking on the thread. The OP just apparently bailed out when challenged to come up with sources for his stated opinions.

For one thing, many posters are confusing or conflating the present day with the past – that is, the origins of the GAA with today and making a case against the organization - and not putting those origins rightly within their historic context. To say that the founders were ‘bigoted’ and then apply our own [yes] flawed contemporary sense of ‘inclusiveness’ is to totally misunderstand history. It’s like reading George Washington’s letters to Martha and saying what a bigot the man was – he really slagged off the English all the time and as for what he says about Jefferson! The point is, historic context is necessary for an understanding of the historic moment.

The GAA was founded in revolutionary times. It was part of the wider Irish world of the Gaelic Revival; a necessary preamble to a nationalist revolution. Like the Gaelic League it soaked deeply into the fabric of everyday Irish life, including the political and nationalist aspirations of the day. That is what the Gaelic Revival was all about – but this cultural movement was open to all who shared the belief in an independent Ireland. Hyde’s concept as expressed in “The Necessity of de-Anglcising Ireland’ was central to all of this and to the times. To therefore take the GAA’s foundation out of its historic context and then attempt to paint it into another context is simply ahistoric and bad history. And IMO leads to these erroneous charges that have been sometimes laid out here.

Anyway, just trying to keep all this within some historic guidelines.

Judgement Day

The thread would have been better started in the AH forum.

CDfm

Judgement Day wrote: »

The thread would have been better started in the AH forum.

Don't be too harsh, we haven't mentioned the womens game yet .