Gardaí carshed MY car

17-09-2011 3:41pm #1

Yesterday, my car was being seized by the Garda. The Guard who stopped me tried to drive it onto the flatbed, and failed. To be honest, I don't know why the guy in the recovery truck didn't drive it on. Now I have to wait 7-14 days to get it back. I've never had my car seized before but I didn't think they held onto it for a week to 2 weeks. However, this includes the time it takes to get it repaired.

I have a few pictures I can put up, just can't figure out who to put them up on this.....

Now, I can't get to work, bring my kid to school, or anything really.

My car; BMW 330D

Trampas · 17-09-2011 3:43pm

why was your car seized?

2qk4u · 17-09-2011 3:44pm

Why did they seize it ? No tax ? No NCT ? No insurance ?

Wolfe Tone · 17-09-2011 3:47pm

You obviously did (or didnt!) do something which led to them seizing your car, tut tut, thats not on.

However the Garda making a mess of putting the car on the flatbed shouldn't have happened either, thats not your fault. I assume AGS will pay for the damage caused by the individuals incompetence?

17-09-2011 3:52pm

Trampas wrote: »

why was your car seized?

I have an address in Dublin, but I'm living in Newry. I come down to Dublin every week with my car, which is on Northern plates. I've been stopped too many times down here, so they seized it...

charlemont · 17-09-2011 3:57pm

Garda Ombudsman.

stealthyspeeder · 17-09-2011 3:59pm

sh*t one, hopefully all damage is sorted. What sort of car was it?

Unfortunately for you, its the state of personal ties that determines residence (for you ROI) so you should be driving an ROI registered car.

bigneacy · 17-09-2011 4:10pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

sh*t one, hopefully all damage is sorted. What sort of car was it?

Unfortunately for you, its the state of personal ties that determines residence (for you ROI) so you should be driving an ROI registered car.

Whats that mean?

pajero12 · 17-09-2011 4:15pm

The A5? :eek:

AugustusMinimus · 17-09-2011 4:17pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

sh*t one, hopefully all damage is sorted. What sort of car was it?

Unfortunately for you, its the state of personal ties that determines residence (for you ROI) so you should be driving an ROI registered car.

It's not taxation residence ?

stealthyspeeder · 17-09-2011 4:22pm

bigneacy wrote: »

Whats that mean?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It's not taxation residence ?

nope, common misconception though. Income taxation is done by location of work.

AugustusMinimus · 17-09-2011 4:31pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

nope, common misconception though. Income taxation is done by location of work.

It's very complicated but that is not always true.

In general this is true for employment income. However, when you get into self employment income, you get into all sorts of technicalities such as if you are operating via a permanent establishment in another country.

Secondments in foreign countries can also become very complicated in tax law.

johndaman66 · 17-09-2011 4:35pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Unfortunately for you, its the state of personal ties that determines residence (for you ROI) so you should be driving an ROI registered car.

350 wrote: »

I have an address in Dublin, but I'm living in Newry.

I believe the litmus test is that if the OP is not in the Republic at 12 midnight for 186 days or more per annum then they are not ordinarily resident in the State, at least such used to be the case. No doubt the onus is on the OP to prove as such beyond all reasonable doubt. A task which might not be made very straightforward by the fact they have an address in Dublin.

So much for the free movement of people, goods and services within the EU

Big Nasty · 17-09-2011 4:36pm

pajero12 wrote: »

The A5? :eek:

Nah, it was an Evo.;)

gsxr1 · 17-09-2011 4:47pm

keep your Northern Bank statement with your UK licence. Any Garda will have a very hard time proving you are in the wrong if you have weekly ATM withdrawals
in the North.

I do this and have no problems. Plus a good attitude with the garda is worth it weight in gold.

As for your car. I cant see there being an issue over blame for the damage .

They broke it. They fix it to YOUR standard.

Thats what they preach at a fender bender .

AugustusMinimus · 17-09-2011 4:53pm

johndaman66 wrote: »

I believe the litmus test is that if the OP is not in the Republic at 12PM midnight for 186 days or more per annum then they are not ordinarily resident in the State, at least such used to be the case. No doubt the onus is on the OP to prove as such beyond all reasonable doubt. A task which might not be made very straightforward by the fact they have an address in Dublin.

So much for the free movement of people, goods and services within the EU

No.

The rule for taxation residence is if you spend 183 days in Ireland in a given year. If you spend anytime at all during the day in Ireland, then that counts as a day.

The previous midnight rule went out the window 2 years ago.

Ordinary residence is an extension of residence. You are ordinary resident in Ireland if you have been resident in Ireland for the previous 3 years. You are ordinary non-resident if you had previously been ordinarily residenet but then spend 3 years being non resident.

I'm not sure if taxation residence applies to motor taxation and registration but they are the basic rules.

charlemont · 17-09-2011 4:58pm

bigneacy wrote: »

Whats that mean?

Bog talk..

Paddy001 · 17-09-2011 4:59pm

johndaman66 wrote: »

I believe the litmus test is that if the OP is not in the Republic at 12PM midnight for 186 days or more per annum then they are not ordinarily resident in the State, at least such used to be the case. No doubt the onus is on the OP to prove as such beyond all reasonable doubt. A task which might not be made very straightforward by the fact they have an address in Dublin.

So much for the free movement of people, goods and services within the EU

This information is incorrect. The person does not have to be in the ROI at midnight. A day is counted if they are in the ROI at any stage of the day, 183 days in the ROI within one year and you are a resident. If this does not apply then they look to see if you have been in the ROI for 280 days or more between last year and this year. If you are only coming down one day a week you should be okay, even if you do have an address here you are not resident

colly10 · 17-09-2011 5:02pm

350 wrote: »

Before;

After;

Couple of pics

Your links are wrong, look at what you posted, view the actual pictures yourself and post the link that appears in the address bar when your viewing each

JDxtra · 17-09-2011 5:03pm

Sign in with your Adobe ID??

17-09-2011 5:09pm

Sorry guys, I added 2 pics in the description. I'll have to figure out how to embed them...

Standard Toaster · 17-09-2011 5:16pm

Bangharda driver???

>_>

Hard luck OP.

Abi · 17-09-2011 5:16pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

nope, common misconception though. Income taxation is done by location of work.

I was thinking this, or the ratio of time he's spending in ROI against NI, / VRT issue.

OP, sorry to hear about the damage. That was a major boo boo on their part, but they are liable.

I don't mean to get on your case about it all, but you say it's not the first time you've been stopped by the Gardai regarding this issue previously, why didn't you take any notice?

Wolfe Tone · 17-09-2011 5:18pm

Looking at those pics, what sort of retard was that Garda!

markc1184 · 17-09-2011 5:20pm

Before:

After:

That's very bad luck mate. How exactly did they manage it? Bit too much gas going up the flat bed?

17-09-2011 5:20pm

Abi wrote: »

I was thinking this, or the ratio of time he's spending in ROI against NI, / VRT issue.

OP, sorry to hear about the damage. That was a major boo boo on their part, but they are liable.

I don't mean to get on your case about it all, but you say it's not the first time you've been stopped by the Gardai regarding this issue previously, why didn't you take any notice?

Its not the 1st time I was stopped...
I was stupid not to take any notice. But to be honest there not much I can do....If I VRT the car, I'm driving around Newry with an Irish reg car. If I don't I;m driving around Dublin with an English reg car...

Bullseye1 · 17-09-2011 5:24pm

Wow. Hopefully you get this sorted and not affect your insurance.

mickdw · 17-09-2011 5:26pm

350 wrote: »

Its not the 1st time I was stopped...
I was stupid not to take any notice. But to be honest there not much I can do....If I VRT the car, I'm driving around Newry with an Irish reg car. If I don't I;m driving around Dublin with an English reg car...

Tbh, that car is typical of the type that would be dodging vrt. Cheapish BMW with massive motortax in Ireland.
I trying to figure out how that damage occured in loading the car onto a flatbed. I cannot get my head around it at all.
I hope you can get a match on that silver.

17-09-2011 5:27pm

markc1184 wrote: »

Before:

That's very bad luck mate. How exactly did they manage it? Bit too much gas going up the flat bed?

Thats exactly what happened mate...:mad:

Alan b. · 17-09-2011 5:27pm

350 wrote: »

Its not the 1st time I was stopped...
I was stupid not to take any notice. But to be honest there not much I can do....If I VRT the car, I'm driving around Newry with an Irish reg car. If I don't I;m driving around Dublin with an English reg car...

i presume you will have access to the car with a mechanic of YOUR choosing before any work is carried out?

i'd be looking into a solicitor and maing a claim for damages beyond repair costs and a complaint to the garda ombudsman.

fight your ground on the vrt thing aswell.

i had a car seized i was driving that wasnt mine, (the law actually says its ilegal for an irish resident to drive a car not irish registered regardless of owner) and they wanted me to vrt it to get it back, a car belong to a chap living in northern ireland, working in northern ireland, paying tax/insurance and mot's in northern ireland.

needless to say the car was returned un vrt'd but they where trying their luck.

AugustusMinimus · 17-09-2011 5:27pm

Absolutely sickened for you OP. Garda couldn't give a flying **** I'd say.

Abi · 17-09-2011 5:30pm

350 wrote: »

Its not the 1st time I was stopped...
I was stupid not to take any notice. But to be honest there not much I can do....If I VRT the car, I'm driving around Newry with an Irish reg car. If I don't I;m driving around Dublin with an English reg car...

The type of car you have will always get noticed. The first couple of times you were stopped, you obviously told them your situation, to which they would have cautioned you, I assume. What advice did they give you?

Bullseye1 · 17-09-2011 5:31pm

Abi wrote: »

The type of car you have will always get noticed. The first couple of times you were stopped, you obviously told them your situation, to which they would have cautioned you, I assume. What advice did they give you?

We are not used to driving BWWs.

Abi · 17-09-2011 5:33pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

We are not used to driving BMWs.

Lol. Oh, and fyp :pac:

17-09-2011 5:39pm

mickdw wrote: »

Tbh, that car is typical of the type that would be dodging vrt. Cheapish BMW with massive motortax in Ireland.
I trying to figure out how that damage occured in loading the car onto a flatbed. I cannot get my head around it at all.
I hope you can get a match on that silver.

I don't think its "Cheapish" tbh.

The Guard said his foot slipped :rolleyes: and the car went straight up and the
right side of my car hit the rear, left side of the tow trucks cab. So, the left
side of my car was hanging off the side of the flatbed.

-Corkie- · 17-09-2011 6:25pm

Jaysus thats fairly sickening. I cannot see why you would need to VRT the car when your main residence is in NI.

scotchy · 17-09-2011 6:27pm

I'm on your side here OP and I imagine you're sick over this, but I would have paid money to see this happening.:)

.

17-09-2011 6:29pm

scotchy wrote: »

I'm on your side here OP and I imagine you're sick over this, but I would have paid money to see this happening.:)

.

LOL, The look on the Guards face when he got out was PRICELESS !!

spiggotpaddy · 17-09-2011 6:36pm

jeez, if joe public caused an accident, then gave the excuse "oh my foot slipped" mr ags would trump up a list of summons's.

was the gaurd breathalized after he had his rta.

AugustusMinimus · 17-09-2011 6:48pm

-Corkie- wrote: »

Jaysus thats fairly sickening. I cannot see why you would need to VRT the car when your main residence is in NI.

Under tie breaker rules in the Ireland - UK Double Taxation Treaty he would also be resident in the UK as that is where his primary residence is.

mickdw · 17-09-2011 6:51pm

350 wrote: »

I don't think its "Cheapish" tbh.

The Guard said his foot slipped :rolleyes: and the car went straight up and the
right side of my car hit the rear, left side of the tow trucks cab. So, the left
side of my car was hanging off the side of the flatbed.

Wasnt having a go at you or anything just meant its not mad money and is the type of car they would be wary of.

Jesus, he might have ripped the **** out of it underneath too. Could be a pricey repair and they they have to deal with the tow truck damage too.

charlemont · 17-09-2011 7:00pm

Get straight on to the Ombudsman with the Garda's name and your photos as otherwise you will get the run around and nothing will be repaired and the Guard will deny liability. You need to act fast on this.

seanybiker · 17-09-2011 7:07pm

Hopefully you get it sorted soon. Can't seen any problems getting it fixed tbh.

17-09-2011 7:08pm

mickdw wrote: »

Wasnt having a go at you or anything just meant its not mad money and is the type of car they would be wary of.

Jesus, he might have ripped the **** out of it underneath too. Could be a pricey repair and they they have to deal with the tow truck damage too.

There's a good bit of damage alright. After it had been crashed they had to have it lifted onto another tow truck. And they had to have the tow truck towed too.
I went to see the car yesterday and the guy doing the repairs says its not only panel damage. I've to go up to him tomorrow and he will show me what has to be done.

MagicSean · 17-09-2011 7:54pm

charlemont wrote: »

Get straight on to the Ombudsman with the Garda's name and your photos as otherwise you will get the run around and nothing will be repaired and the Guard will deny liability. You need to act fast on this.

Ombudsman is probably pointless in this situation. I doubt they'd get involved. The crash will be investigated by a sergeant. i doubt there will be any problem getting payment either.

stealthyspeeder · 17-09-2011 8:02pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Under tie breaker rules in the Ireland - UK Double Taxation Treaty he would also be resident in the UK as that is where his primary residence is.

No he isnt as there is a single EU wide rule for vehicle registration. If he returns regularly to the state of his personel ties, he has to register his vehicle in that state

For Forks Sake · 17-09-2011 8:04pm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Ombudsman is probably pointless in this situation. I doubt they'd get involved. The crash will be investigated by a sergeant. i doubt there will be any problem getting payment either.

A quick look at your history would seem to indicate you're a member of AGS. That the case?

ardmacha · 17-09-2011 8:10pm

I believe the litmus test is that if the OP is not in the Republic at 12 midnight for 186 days or more per annum then they are not ordinarily resident in the State

This is not the litmus test. Normal residence and family ties are key.
If the OPs child was living in Newry and attending school there, I imagine that would be fairly conclusive, even if the OPs work is in Dublin. If the OPs child lives in Dublin and attends school there and the Gardai knew this then they have a strong case.

at least such used to be the case.

This was never the case, the rules have not changed recently.

Why do continually people quote rules relevant to income tax when talking about VRT? How many times has this been discussed here, and yet this misinformation continues?

dillo2k10 · 17-09-2011 8:11pm

If he has the car VRT'd in Ireland would it not then be seized in NI for driving on Ireland plates?

Are they paying for a rental car for you while waiting for the damages to be repaired?

Alan b. · 17-09-2011 8:11pm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Ombudsman is probably pointless in this situation. I doubt they'd get involved. The crash will be investigated by a sergeant. i doubt there will be any problem getting payment either.

the ombudsman investigate accident where guards are not even on duty, of course they would have an interest in this.

the guard had no business driving the car onto the truck to begin with.
theres a winch for a reason.

not to mention the fact that they are advised not to drive seized cars full stop.
as in, previously guards would drive a car back to the station where it would be recovered by tow truck to the pound.
that rarely happens anymore due to circulars that had been issues from up top that it is not to be done if at all avoidable.

AugustusMinimus · 17-09-2011 8:12pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

No he isnt as there is a single EU wide rule for vehicle registration. If he returns regularly to the state of his personel ties, he has to register his vehicle in that state

Why are his personal ties in Dublin ?

It appears the OPs principal residence is in NI.

Gardaí carshed MY car

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