Exploitation, the best available option?

LegacyUser

I recently started a FAS job-bridge internship (work full time for experience, still get the dole with €50 extra per week) The job isnt anything to do with what I studied and I wouldnt really consider what Im doing to be valuable work experience. I finished my Masters last September and was like alot of people unsuccessful in finding a job either here or abroad so decided to take this opportunityto keep myself busy and stave off the frustration of the constant fruitless job hunt.

It turns out I am a free labour replacement for the company's previous (paid) receptionist. I know alot of companys are struggling and I suppose this internship scheme is a way for those business to keep afloat by having extra hands they dont need to pay a wage to but it is quite demeaning to be working alongside others doing the same job as me who are recieving a wage for it, but I feel like I cant complain, afterall if it wasnt for this I doubt Id have found work yet (Im still sending out CV's and keeping an eye out for opportunities in my field) and the extra few quid is not to be sniffed at. But its disheartening. When I started college 12 years ago I thought Id not only have a job by now, but a career. I feel no closer to that now than I did at 18. After 7 years in 3rd level education Im working for less than minimum wage doing an unskilled job. Is this the best Irish graduates can expect these days?

Taltos

Moved this from RI.

Taltos

ArphaRima

What are you trained in?

You said you looked for jobs abroad.
Interns in the major firms here in Shanghai get a fairly decent salary. (even by western standards)

Either way consider yourself a jobseeker (and work hard at this), not an unpaid employee. You should really take an unpaid internship only in a company that would be beneficial to your CV.
Most interns working for major firms in the expat world eventually get taken on full-time.

LegacyUser

Im an Archaeologist. I did some work experience in this area but I was very infrequently. Im doisnt this internship now as a way to keep myself busy and because the €50 extra dole a week is much needed.

Mrs OBumble

Yes, it's exploitation.

But it's the best option you have for today. Hopefully you can find a better option, either in your field or perhaps in a paid role outside your field tomorrow, or next week or whatever. The recession isn't going to last forever.

And don't be thinking sniffy thoughts about reception being unskilled work. There are a good few people who don't have the skills to do it. Sure it doesn't take a college grad - but keep your eyes open for better ways of doing things and you may be able to make it vaguely interesting. Use the opportunity to learn as much as you can about the business, and from the other people in the company - there's a chance you'll be working in general business roles rather than archaeology for a good bit ofyour career.

Mister Dread

Do you not think you are cheating yourself and others out of a paid secretaries job by working for free. If it wasn't for you then they would have most likely had to pay for somebody to work. I think you are exploiting yourself.

Oranage2

disheartened wrote: »

I recently started a FAS job-bridge internship (work full time for experience, still get the dole with €50 extra per week) The job isnt anything to do with what I studied and I wouldnt really consider what Im doing to be valuable work experience. I finished my Masters last September and was like alot of people unsuccessful in finding a job either here or abroad so decided to take this opportunityto keep myself busy and stave off the frustration of the constant fruitless job hunt.

It turns out I am a free labour replacement for the company's previous (paid) receptionist. I know alot of companys are struggling and I suppose this internship scheme is a way for those business to keep afloat by having extra hands they dont need to pay a wage to but it is quite demeaning to be working alongside others doing the same job as me who are recieving a wage for it, but I feel like I cant complain, afterall if it wasnt for this I doubt Id have found work yet (Im still sending out CV's and keeping an eye out for opportunities in my field) and the extra few quid is not to be sniffed at. But its disheartening. When I started college 12 years ago I thought Id not only have a job by now, but a career. I feel no closer to that now than I did at 18. After 7 years in 3rd level education Im working for less than minimum wage doing an unskilled job. Is this the best Irish graduates can expect these days?

I think it is if you study something like Archaeology (I'm not having a go and there is nothing wrong with studying something you have a passion for - just a reality)

As for the Job bridge, You're making yourself more employable adding skills and even networking. Also your confidence may seem low but if you were sat at home doing nothing you'd feel much worst.

How was the replys when you sent out CVs? hear anything back?

Pandora2

Mister Dread wrote: »

Do you not think you are cheating yourself and others out of a paid secretaries job by working for free. If it wasn't for you then they would have most likely had to pay for somebody to work. I think you are exploiting yourself.

An intern now does my job now, badly, and I am on the dole:( I forsaw that the internship programmes would act as a barrier to recruitment, if employers think they will get adequate performance from interns it will be their first port of call!!! I agree that there should be internship programmes but they should not act as a barrier to employment. Don't have much hope for anyone gong the intern route now, it was rank and file employees such as myself who very often supervised and mentored them, not managment.......let's call it what it is, free labour:eek::eek::eek:

LegacyUser

I agree with you Pandora2, except it isnt even cheap labour, its free to the employer.

To answer a previous question. I sent out countless cv's and letters, most places didnt even bother to acknowledge receipt. I called back to see how my applications were getting on and alot of places told me they'd recieved hundreds of applications and couldnt contact everyone who had sent in a cv.

LegacyUser

Mister Dread,
They did not advertise the intern position as that of a receptionist. I feel exploited because Im now doing a job that I could be paid for, never mind depriving someone else of a job. Of course I dont want to deprive anyone of a paid position.

Pandora2

disheartened wrote: »

I agree with you Pandora2, except it isnt even cheap labour, its free to the employer.

To answer a previous question. I sent out countless cv's and letters, most places didnt even bother to acknowledge receipt. I called back to see how my applications were getting on and alot of places told me they'd recieved hundreds of applications and couldnt contact everyone who had sent in a cv.

You are right and, I fixed my post;););)

ArphaRima

Following up on what I said previously internships shouldnt be a replacement for paid work. You are supposed to be doing on-the-job learning in your field.
Is it in your field?

If not I would get out of that job ASAP.

Perhaps you could meet your "employer" and say you arent doint the kind of work you feel you should be as an intern. Explain you arent a secretary, and shouldnt be treated as one. You are there to learn primarily, gain workplace experience and yes. do dogwork when needed. But it should at least try to be relevant and not be free labour in sub-skilled jobs.

Mister Dread

So leave the unpaid job then. Maybe set your sights a bit lower, I see plenty of work advertised in town for waitressing, shop staff etc.

Mrs OBumble

disheartened wrote: »

I feel exploited because Im now doing a job that I could be paid for ...

So get yourself a paid position then!

Pandora2

JustMary wrote: »

So get yourself a paid position then!

I think the point being made is that the OP's position is a real job, filled by an intern, who was unaware at the outset that their responsibilities had previously been undertaken by a paid employee

I have long suspected that unscrupulous employers would use the downturn to rationalise, even when unnecessary, and then take full advantage of such internship programmes. Are there any conditions imposed upon the employers? Must they convert a percentage of internship places to real jobs???

LegacyUser

Thank you Pandoa2!
Some posters here dont seem to realise I do want a paid job, unfortunatly there arent any in my field, I thought an internship would be better than just sitting around on the dole but this has turned out not to be an internship. Mister Dread, you seem to annoyed with me for not taking a waitressing job, dont you think since Im not gaining usable experience anyway I would prefer to be earning a full wage rather than working full time for a few extra on top of my dole. Im not a scrounger, Im not whinging, Im genuinely let down by the system and I dont think Im wrong in being so.

Mister Dread

Listen, I'm going to be a harsh. You don't have a field. You are not an archaeologist. Having a degree/masters does no make you one. You become one when you are paid to do that job. You should be looking for any job and really set your sights low because you will be at the back of the queue. No employer is going to be interested in somebody who has spent 12 years in and out of college, unemployed, part time jobs. That big job you are looking for is unlikely to come.

Pandora2

disheartened wrote: »

I recently started a FAS job-bridge internship (work full time for experience, still get the dole with €50 extra per week) The job isnt anything to do with what I studied and I wouldnt really consider what Im doing to be valuable work experience. I finished my Masters last September and was like alot of people unsuccessful in finding a job either here or abroad so decided to take this opportunityto keep myself busy and stave off the frustration of the constant fruitless job hunt.

It turns out I am a free labour replacement for the company's previous (paid) receptionist. I know alot of companys are struggling and I suppose this internship scheme is a way for those business to keep afloat by having extra hands they dont need to pay a wage to but it is quite demeaning to be working alongside others doing the same job as me who are recieving a wage for it, but I feel like I cant complain, afterall if it wasnt for this I doubt Id have found work yet (Im still sending out CV's and keeping an eye out for opportunities in my field) and the extra few quid is not to be sniffed at. But its disheartening. When I started college 12 years ago I thought Id not only have a job by now, but a career. I feel no closer to that now than I did at 18. After 7 years in 3rd level education Im working for less than minimum wage doing an unskilled job. Is this the best Irish graduates can expect these days?

Have to support the original poster who has found themselves educated for a career where opportunities are limited, they are not alone:eek: They could not have forseen 12 years ago the apocalyptic economic situation we now find ourselves in!!!

Failing finding work in their field, they took an internshiip in oder to accrue some experience and, no doubt, were well aware that it had nothing to do with archaeology however they have realised that they are, in fact, blocking an actual job and are being used as "free labour":eek::eek::eek::eek: They seem to ask if Graduates in this Country have been let down, they have as we all have been:(

As good a topic as any I've seen for discussion on boards!!

It also opens up the whole debate as to educational choices made by our children in their teens to equip them for life, as far as I can tell, after the student makes choices for the leaving cert, the dye is fairly much cast for them. My own daughter took advice and studied science only to be told midway that the add on course (1 year at the end of degree) would not now be available despite assurances to the contrary at the outset. She now works as a waitress.....degree and all!!!

fat__tony

JustMary wrote: »

Yes, it's exploitation.

But it's the best option you have for today. Hopefully you can find a better option, either in your field or perhaps in a paid role outside your field tomorrow, or next week or whatever. The recession isn't going to last forever.

And don't be thinking sniffy thoughts about reception being unskilled work. There are a good few people who don't have the skills to do it. Sure it doesn't take a college grad - but keep your eyes open for better ways of doing things and you may be able to make it vaguely interesting. Use the opportunity to learn as much as you can about the business, and from the other people in the company - there's a chance you'll be working in general business roles rather than archaeology for a good bit ofyour career.

How is it considered the best option? Is that how high graduates expectations should be now? Free labour for a low skilled position within a company which clearly has no moral standards.Is this what the country has come to?

OP, consider emigration as an infinitely better option than the situation you are in. At least you'll be paid for your expertise in a proper country.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the constructive comments.

Mister Dread, I dont know why you seemed so irked by my post. Yes, I studied something that is not an easy area to get work in. Fair enough, Im not a professional archaeologist yet, mores the pity, but you seem to be insinuating that Im being picky or spoilt in regards the kinds of jobs Im looking for. I never indicated that I was going for anything other than entry level jobs. Im not so naive as to think that my qualifications on their own are good enough to allow me to bypass actual hands on experience. Obviously after investing so much into getting an education I am not going to give up on eventually working in that area, but I am far from ruling out all other options.

I dont think its fair to suggest I brought all this on myself simply because of what I choose to study years ago. I havnt chosen as you say to "spend the last 12 years in and out of college, doing part time jobs and being on the dole". You say that as if my choices are something to be ashamed of, they are not. Im proud of what Ive done, its unfortunate I cant at the moment put it to good use in the way I would like to but that doesnt mean I should lie down and give up.

Mrs OBumble

fat__tony wrote: »

How is it considered the best option? Is that how high graduates expectations should be now? Free labour for a low skilled position within a company which clearly has no moral standards.Is this what the country has come to?

OP, consider emigration as an infinitely better option than the situation you are in. At least you'll be paid for your expertise in a proper country.

It is the best option that the OP has today.

Tomorrow, s/he may have a better option, like emigration (which can also be called "overseas travel" and is viewed positively by people in most countries!).

If someone chooses to study in obscure fields (no pun intended!) like archaeology, astro-physics, etc then they have to either work in another field or travel to where the work is.

TBH, I'm rather irked by the references to reception as low-skilled. I've done a lot of it in the last 2.5 years, and though it aint professional, it's certainly not low skilled, and wasn't minimum wage, either. There are a LOT of people out there who could not do it. In my last gig, I worked harder than I have for years. Not difficult to me with my IT-analyst skillset, but not trivial either.

ArphaRima

I'm rather irked by the references to reception as low-skilled.

Apologies if I used the wrong term. I used "sub-skilled". what I was trying to say is that it does not require as advanced a skillset than the degree course would have qualified her/him for.

OP, consider emigration as an infinitely better option than the situation you are in.

I definitely think this the best option, but then again I'm prejudiced and it isn't for everyone.
I dont pretend to understand your industry but UNESCO and the likes surely have ongoing projects in places like Cambodia, Laos and Burma etc? It would be terrific experience if so in my opinion, both for you and any prospective employer.

Kinski

Employers using JobBridge interns to replace paid workers is forbidden under the terms of the scheme. From this article on Tesco's attempt to fill shelf-stacking positions with interns:

The department [of Social Protection] said applications must meet criteria including not displacing an employee

Obviously I don't know the exact circumstances in your case, but these people using you to replace a paid employee might be an abuse of JobBridge.

Bens

If you are into charity work.
My nephew went to Africa about 6 months ago. Hes in an orphanage helping kids with computer skills and maths etc. He gets his food and board and $150USD a week as an allowance. Hes even saving most of it as its very cheap to live there and they are brought off on safaris and the likes at the weekends. He says there are loads of these places, crying out for people.

I also have other relatives who couldnt get jobs but went to Croatia and other places in the Med and got jobs easy enough.
You should look into this, or other simlar things in other countries, instead of being exploited here.

the_syco

Mister Dread wrote: »

So leave the unpaid job then. Maybe set your sights a bit lower, I see plenty of work advertised in town for waitressing, shop staff etc.

And most of them being WPP or paid internships, with the latter getting paid €50 more than the former...

=-=

Off-topic, but in reference to the IrishTimes article, meh. No-one gives a flying f**k. There was WPP jobs in the MoJ office a few months ago!

Oranage2

the_syco wrote: »

And most of them being WPP or paid internships, with the latter getting paid €50 more than the former...

=-=

Off-topic, but in reference to the IrishTimes article, meh. No-one gives a flying f**k. There was WPP jobs in the MoJ office a few months ago!

Hardly most to be honest


and Minimum wage is
35 hours * 8.65 euro= 302.75

Minus Tax, social charges etc. and no benefits



Jobbridge is
188 + 50 = 238

Plus benefits


Make no mistake about it jobbridge isnt slave labour, and getting valuable experience* is priceless. If anything Minimum wage are the people who are getting the raw end!


* Obviously there are some cases of abuse but to get a good internship will get you priceless experience - I'd say the people moaning about Jobbridge are the ones sitting on the dole doing nothing or the ones who havent even got the skills to get one!

Jim2007

disheartened wrote: »

To answer a previous question. I sent out countless cv's and letters, most places didnt even bother to acknowledge receipt. I called back to see how my applications were getting on and alot of places told me they'd recieved hundreds of applications and couldnt contact everyone who had sent in a cv.

I think no matter what the economy does, archaeology is not going to be in big demand. I expect to have any chance of a career in that area, you'd need to have a PhD, be highly thought of among your peers and be good at the networking.

I say this because I know two people with PhDs in this area here in Switzerland, both in the mid 40s and neither of them has managed to land a good paying job. They do get sort term assignments, but that is about it. So they both wait tables, do admin work and one even does some computer programming as a means to earn a living.

I expect that you'll need to do a lot more than simply send to CVs in order to land a job in this area (even in good times). And also thing about a plan B for generating a cash flow.

Jim.

chem

The problem is this WPP is its been used as free labour. I seen one job online been offered. 20K a year, sent in CV heared notting, then seen the same job afew weeks later on FAS with €50 extra on the dole. Something is very, very wrong with this. I have even seen factory workers positions been posted on FAS. SLAVES springs to mind.

LegacyUser

Bens, whats the name of the company your nephew went to Africa with? Iven been looking up those kinds of opportunities and alot of the volunteering agencies require you to pay your own way, which unfortunatly I cant adfford. I would however rather be doing something worthwhile for little cash than lining someone elses pockets for "experience".