First Marathon - sub 3 hours

Paddys Wigwam

Hi all,

Im running my first marathon in berlin next weekend & I am a bit unsure about what time I should be targeting. My training has been slightly disrupted with injury and so I only did one 21 mile run, two 18 milers and a few 16 milers. Did a 10 mile run at the weekend and ran in 66 mins. All my runs have previously been at pretty much sub 3 hour pace. I have two options at the moment:
· I will start off aiming for 3 and slow down if the pace is too much
· Start off aiming for 3, 15 and speed up when I reach the half mark.
I would be fairly sporty, in my twenties and would be confident I could keep the pace for 20 miles, it’s the last 6 that I would be unsure about… Its also worth noting this could be my only marathon as I am not sure my body could take the training as I age and so id like to get a good time. what do you guys think?

liamo123

Paddys Wigwam wrote: »

Hi all,

Im running my first marathon in berlin next weekend & I am a bit unsure about what time I should be targeting. My training has been slightly disrupted with injury and so I only did one 21 mile run, two 18 milers and a few 16 milers. Did a 10 mile run at the weekend and ran in 66 mins. All my runs have previously been at pretty much sub 3 hour pace. I have two options at the moment:
· I will start off aiming for 3 and slow down if the pace is too much
· Start off aiming for 3, 15 and speed up when I reach the half mark.
I would be fairly sporty, in my twenties and would be confident I could keep the pace for 20 miles, it’s the last 6 that I would be unsure about… Its also worth noting this could be my only marathon as I am not sure my body could take the training as I age and so id like to get a good time. what do you guys think?

Best of luck Paddy... Ran it last year and doing so again on Sunday.. My advice to u is simple... ( broke 3 hrs in DCM '10 this way )...Seek out the 3 hr pacers in the starting pen and stick with them... They're job is to run consistant pace throughout... Berlin is flat as a pancake so uve no hills or inclines 2 worry about... If/When things start to get difficult head down, dig deep, concentrate and most of all dont panic.... try to keep the pacers within visual contact .... U might have a couple of bad miles but the body is very resilient and then hopefully ul b able to make ur way back to them....


Have 2 laugh when u say this could b ur only marathon because of u age.... Sure alot of u posting here only started running in our mid 30's .... If running in Berlin doesent give u the marathon bug nothing will !!!

Best of luck, enjoy the marathon experience and the pts after !!

gudwan

Hey Paddy,

I'm running the Marathon on Sunday too and I'm much less prepared than you. I'm also 33. I did do the Half Marathon in Berlin in April in 2hrs 5mins 15secs. I know that's not a great time. It's actually smack bang in the middle of the best and the worst times.

But that's all I was aiming for... finishing it it a non-embarrassing time, so I can deal with just over 2hrs. The thing is that, although I didn't do enough training for that, I did do some: a few 10K, and few 15K and one 17K run.

Since April though, I've only run about 5 times and all have been only 10K or 13K runs. All this week I'll be building back up to about a 20K run, but won't get close to 42K.

It seems ridiculous to most people that I'm going to do the Marathon on Sunday with so little training. But I'm determined to do it and everyone said there was no way I could to the full inline marathon in 2009 with absolutely no training in 2hrs 35min 52secs. That was near the end, the worst time being 2hrs 58mins, but I only wanted to finish that.

And I'm only aiming to finish this in 4 to 4.5hrs and not to walk any of it. A constant jog. Wish me luck! I'm gonna need it.

Good luck with you goal of 3hrs. That would be a great time.

brownian

Paddys Wigwam wrote: »

Hi all,

Im running my first marathon in berlin next weekend & I am a bit unsure about what time I should be targeting. My training has been slightly disrupted with injury and so I only did one 21 mile run, two 18 milers and a few 16 milers. Did a 10 mile run at the weekend and ran in 66 mins. All my runs have previously been at pretty much sub 3 hour pace. I have two options at the moment:
· I will start off aiming for 3 and slow down if the pace is too much
· Start off aiming for 3, 15 and speed up when I reach the half mark.
I would be fairly sporty, in my twenties and would be confident I could keep the pace for 20 miles, it’s the last 6 that I would be unsure about… Its also worth noting this could be my only marathon as I am not sure my body could take the training as I age and so id like to get a good time. what do you guys think?

Based on your being unsure about holding the pace for 20 miles, I can't see a positive split (slower first half, faster second half) working out for you. I'd be aiming for 1:28 to 1:29 in the first half and the same in the second half. This is basically the same advice as Liamo123 is giving you.

Last marathon - heh heh. There's never a last marathon.

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

I can't see a positive split (slower first half, faster second half) working out for you.

Just for clarification, that's a negative split. Personally, I reckon a negative split suits everyone, for distances over 10k.

brownian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Just for clarification, that's a negative split. Personally, I reckon a negative split suits everyone, for distances over 10k.

Feckit, I always get those confused!!

You reckon a slow first half, fast second half, suits everyone? Why? Here's my thinking

- if you get to the end with something in the tank, that's waste.
- it's harder to go faster when you're tired than when you're fresh
- if you saddle yourself with a need to pick up time when you're already tiring, it'll hurt.
- it's hard enough trying to keep up PMP after 20 miles, never mind pick up time lost by being too energy-mean at the start.
- by and large,even splits offer the best option, but paranoid runners might like to invest a teeny amount each mile in the first half, to have a small cushion. Well-balanced runners with no anxiety issues should just run even.

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

- if you get to the end with something in the tank, that's waste.
- it's harder to go faster when you're tired than when you're fresh
- if you saddle yourself with a need to pick up time when you're already tiring, it'll hurt.
- it's hard enough trying to keep up PMP after 20 miles, never mind pick up time lost by being too energy-mean at the start.
- by and large,even splits offer the best option, but paranoid runners might like to invest a teeny amount each mile in the first half, to have a small cushion. Well-balanced runners with no anxiety issues should just run even.

My way of thinking (doesn't necessarily make it right) is that even-splits is the same thing as negative splits. You run at pmp all the way, and speed-up before the finish-line. You don't leave anything left in the tank.

Banking time (running faster than PMP) doesn't tend to work, as it pushes you beyond your PMP pace, and potentially beyond your lactate threshold (at the pointy end of marathon times, the difference between half marathon and full marathon pace is quite fine (15-20 seconds per mile).

If you are mentally prepared to slow down towards the end of a marathon, then you most certainly will slow down. If you aim to speed-up, then you have a much better chance of running a faster time. You don't drop below pmp to run a negative split, you simply speed up towards the end of the race.

Slogger Jogger

Marathons and age go hand in hand. Did my first at 35 and about to do my 27th (I think) at 43. If you can hold a bit back in the first half that is always the best way to go. Fair play if you go sub 3 in your 1st marathon. It would be a great achievement. Good luck.

brownian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

My way of thinking (doesn't necessarily make it right) is that even-splits is the same thing as negative splits. You run at pmp all the way, and speed-up before the finish-line. You don't leave anything left in the tank.

Banking time (running faster than PMP) doesn't tend to work, as it pushes you beyond your PMP pace, and potentially beyond your lactate threshold (at the pointy end of marathon times, the difference between half marathon and full marathon pace is quite fine (15-20 seconds per mile).

If you are mentally prepared to slow down towards the end of a marathon, then you most certainly will slow down. If you aim to speed-up, then you have a much better chance of running a faster time. You don't drop below pmp to run a negative split, you simply speed up towards the end of the race.

I think we're in violent agreement, really...even splits (plus a sprint, if you have it in you) all the way. Also, I've benefited from following your advice in the past, and wouldn't recommend to the OP that he value my opinion in the same way as yours.

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

I think we're in violent agreement, really...even splits (plus a sprint, if you have it in you) all the way. Also, I've benefited from following your advice in the past, and wouldn't recommend to the OP that he value my opinion in the same way as yours.

I'm far from an expert. I just do what the good book tells me to do.