Are Bikers being a bit naive protesting over this

mb1725

This protest was supposed to be about against compulsory laws, this doesn't look like the actions of someone who can regulate himself!

beatman91

I am not sure what your point is. Everyone can clearly see that this guy is an idiot putting people at danger. Are you saying that he is representing everyone at this protest?

Paparazzo

Eoin wrote: »

As I said earlier, I don't get why people don't wear this stuff voluntarily. The very mature arguments made about looking "gay" or a "muppet" didn't sway me.

It's not immature to not want to look stupid! Fair enough if you don't mind the look. But lots of people buy expensive jackets and leathers, and looks is an important part of picking the ones you want.

mb1725

I don't have to say it, his actions speak for themselves. This is just the kind of publicity the suits going in to work in the Dail Tuesday morning hope for!

Eoin

Paparazzo wrote: »

It's not immature to not want to look stupid! Fair enough if you don't mind the look. But lots of people buy expensive jackets and leathers, and looks is an important part of picking the ones you want.

The words I used were direct quotes from this thread! Personally, I can't see how they look stupid any more than a cycling helmet does, but that's just me.

Paparazzo

Eoin wrote: »

The words I used were direct quotes from this thread! Personally, I can't see how they look stupid any more than a cycling helmet does, but that's just me.

Cycling helmets look stupid too!

Arnie wouldn't look to cool in Terminator 2 going around with a high viz jacket. "I need your clothes, your boots, your motorcycle and your high viz jacket."

beatman91

Oh I know that, from what I hear there was maybe 3 of these kind of incidents and there was about 1000 bikes there and yet this made it into the news. I don't think anybody there was happy with this. No one cheered this guy on, or rallied behind him. There was a lot of people there who knew what this was about, some didn't and came along for the ride, and some came to mess. Like I said this sort of stuff happens at every protest.

As for the Hi Viz comments.

I have a set of black leathers that I wear during the summer, when the days are long. But when the winter comes I change my jacket to a hi viz one as I like to be seen in the bad weather. I would like this to be my choice and not the law. My lights are always on too, but like I said its my choice and if I make the wrong one, I will pay for it.

I drive 30k km a year on the bike and the most dangerous thing for me on the road is the state of the country roads from gravel to dirt, I am not sure any of the laws will save my life.

Robdude

I'm all for safety. If people want bikes with ABS and always on headlights they can buy them.

I'm not for making it a requirement.

I don't think I have any business telling someone else what they should wear when they go for a ride. Unhealthy eating is bad too, but far be it from me to walk up to someone and take their candy.

beatman91

Robdude wrote: »

I'm all for safety. If people want bikes with ABS and always on headlights they can buy them.

I'm not for making it a requirement.

I don't think I have any business telling someone else what they should wear when they go for a ride. Unhealthy eating is bad too, but far be it from me to walk up to someone and take their candy.

I agree we are adults we don't need to have everything legislated by the EU. I got the best gear I could afford because I want the best protection I can afford . If it doesn't work for me I have an Organ Donor card and someone will be very happy.

daenerysstormborn3

The guy that did the burnout on RTE was ASKED to do so by the cameraman, as were plenty of others at the protests.

I don't see the big deal, got your attention didn't he?

daenerysstormborn3

I was taking my usual route to work this morning when about 10 cars pulled to a stop ahead of me coming up to a roundabout. There was a huge freight truck ahead of us going around the roundabout. A white car came from the right and ploughed right into the side of the truck. As I was driving by a few moments later the guy who was driving the white car was standing in the middle of the road, head in his hands saying "I just didn't see you".

Now, if stupid idiots in their cars can't see a huge yellow truck with lights and hi viz and reflective strips all over it what hope do we have of being seen in a hi viz vest that will be partially if not fully covered in most cases by a rucksack and therefore rendered useless yet again?!

I despair for this country I really do.

Syllabus

Yes its ALWAYS the car drivers fault... Yawn[/Quote]

Yes!

When i was driving down a main rd and a L driver who was out teaching himself to drive decided to T bone me putting me out of work for a month it was the cars fault.

When i was filtering at a safe speed down the line of stationary traffic and the car driver decided he didnt want to be in the traffic anymore and turned into my path resulting in 2 cracked ribs it was the cars fault

MikeC101

pixiebean22 wrote: »

The guy that did the burnout on RTE was ASKED to do so by the cameraman, as were plenty of others at the protests.

I don't see the big deal, got your attention didn't he?

You don’t see the issue with performing an illegal manouvre while on camera for the 6.1 news?

On an occasion when the public eye is on us, and the protest is about not having pointless regulations foisted on us, we want to look mature and responsible, not like hooligans. Not saying it's the end of the world, just stupid to so easily give the media something to replay and outrage the Joe Duffy listeners.

And the guy going on about how he wouldn’t be able to ride his Harley because the “EU want to ban bikes over 7 years” - Firstly, this was a proposed domestic French regulation – to restrict access to certain urban areas for bikes over 7 years old. Secondly, to the best of my knowledge this proposal has been dropped, and isn’t even going to be implemented in France.

It was always going to happen though – lack of a central figure to speak to the public, or to impose some order on people was never going to make for a particularly coherent protest. Really, MAG should have been let take control of this. (But then, no one joins MAG, then complain MAG doesn’t do anything so why should the join…vicious circle)

Still though, it did show people are willing to go to the effort to turn up and protest, and got some media attention.

davoxx

Syllabus wrote: »

When i was filtering at a safe speed down the line of stationary traffic and the car driver decided he didnt want to be in the traffic anymore and turned into my path resulting in 2 cracked ribs it was the cars fault

is filtering legal?

(and so we don't get confused, i believe that in 80% of motorbike vs cars, cars are to blame ... though i've see some very stupid motorbikers)

daenerysstormborn3

MikeC101 wrote: »

You don’t see the issue with performing an illegal manouvre while on camera for the 6.1 news?

On an occasion when the public eye is on us, and the protest is about not having pointless regulations foisted on us, we want to look mature and responsible, not like hooligans. Not saying it's the end of the world, just stupid to so easily give the media something to replay and outrage the Joe Duffy listeners.

And the guy going on about how he wouldn’t be able to ride his Harley because the “EU want to ban bikes over 7 years” - Firstly, this was a proposed domestic French regulation – to restrict access to certain urban areas for bikes over 7 years old. Secondly, to the best of my knowledge this proposal has been dropped, and isn’t even going to be implemented in France.

It was always going to happen though – lack of a central figure to speak to the public, or to impose some order on people was never going to make for a particularly coherent protest. Really, MAG should have been let take control of this. (But then, no one joins MAG, then complain MAG doesn’t do anything so why should the join…vicious circle)

Still though, it did show people are willing to go to the effort to turn up and protest, and got some media attention.

No I don't.

There were plenty of Gardai there, why wasn't he arrested? He was asked to perform the "illegal maneouvre" by a member of the RTE crew, as were plenty of other people at that protest.

daenerysstormborn3

davoxx wrote: »

is filtering legal?

Yes.

turbodiesel

All in all a great turnout.

If you know anyone that didn't make it to a protest this weekend......

Tell them they better make the next run though if they want biking to be around for the kids when they grow up. ...... If they have kids, Let their ma/uncle/aunt/god parent/neighbour look after the kids on the day of the next protests......or even bring them along.

We had approx 3000 bikers country wide(Thats just my guess) but that's out of about 50k bikes in the country. But that's because it was a hap hazerdly organised demo pretty much run from biker.ie (just a quick show of strength to align ourselves with protests across Europe it would seem).

Next time I'd like to see 8-10k bikes if it's on a weekend day or the same number again as yesterday if it was a weekday protest. I'd quiet happily take a half day in the name of protest.

If there is going to be another protest then MAG/Biker.ie/IBF/Global bikes/boards all have an online presence but not all bikers are online on regular basis. It would need the advanced driving/driving school guys/back patch clubs/road racing-motocross-enduro-trials bike clubs to come together and work together to make a massive protest. I'd take a few hours to do leaflet drops at traffic lights on a morning or two before work and I'm sure others would too.

I'm sure we all don't have the same opinion about all the issues, but we need to work together just to show that we can and will organise ourselves if there is a need and the representative groups need to be consulted before any of these proposals are voted on or enacted into law.

Haven't had a chance to check out the rest of europe demo wise. Hopefully they had strong turnouts too.

MikeC101

pixiebean22 wrote: »

No I don't.

There were plenty of Gardai there, why wasn't he arrested? He was asked to perform the "illegal maneouvre" by a member of the RTE crew, as were plenty of other people at that protest.

To be honest, if you can't see why it's a bad idea, then I don't think I can explain it to you any better. You're so blinkered you really can't imagine why it's stupid to start doing burnouts at a public protest? It's the equivalent of a gang of "boy racers" turning up and doing donuts outside Leinster house at a protest.

As far as I'm concerned attitudes like yours (the biker is always right, no matter what) are only going to contribute to having increasing sanctions imposed on us.

I doubt it's an arrestable offence, but surely he could have easily been given points on his license.

No comeback on the 7 years nonsense then?

daenerysstormborn3

MikeC101 wrote: »

To be honest, if you can't see why it's a bad idea, then I don't think I can explain it to you any better. You're so blinkered you really can't imagine why it's stupid to start doing burnouts at a public protest? It's the equivalent of a gang of "boy racers" turning up and doing donuts outside Leinster house at a protest.

As far as I'm concerned attitudes like yours (the biker is always right, no matter what) are only going to contribute to having increasing sanctions imposed on us.

I doubt it's an arrestable offence, but surely he could have easily been given points on his license.

No comeback on the 7 years nonsense then?

You've no issue with the fact that RTE asked him and many others to do the burnout? That's completely fine, is it? They wanted something eye catching to show on their news report.

Jeez you know me so well. It's amazing how well you can get to know someone by a few posts on an internet forum.

What do you mean no comeback on the 7 years nonsense then? It was initially a domestic French proposal, not an EU wide proposal. If it does get implemented in France then they may be used as an example to other EU countries to follow suit. I don't understand what you want me to say here

davoxx

MikeC101 wrote: »

To be honest, if you can't see why it's a bad idea, then I don't think I can explain it to you any better. You're so blinkered you really can't imagine why it's stupid to start doing burnouts at a public protest? It's the equivalent of a gang of "boy racers" turning up and doing donuts outside Leinster house at a protest.

As far as I'm concerned attitudes like yours (the biker is always right, no matter what) are only going to contribute to having increasing sanctions imposed on us.

I doubt it's an arrestable offence, but surely he could have easily been given points on his license.

No comeback on the 7 years nonsense then?

People are idiots and there will always be one

but i agree, i would not have a burnout if asked by a camera man trying to make news.

it severely weakens our case.

point in case, at work today, my boss said "were you at the protest? what was with that twat doing a burnout?"

now we are grouped with twats ...

MikeC101

pixiebean22 wrote: »

You've no issue with the fact that RTE asked him and many others to do the burnout? That's completely fine, is it? They wanted something eye catching to show on their news report.

No, it's not - but the media are always going to try for sensationalist crap, people needed a tiny amount of cop on not to rise to the bait. I’m not saying it was the end of the world – but you can’t complain about car drivers not obeying the rules, then shrug it off when a biker does the same.

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Jeez you know me so well. It's amazing how well you can get to know someone by a few posts on an internet forum.

Your attitude on this thread has been to blame car drivers, then shrug it off when a biker does something stupid. That’s all I’m commenting on. You can’t have it both ways.

pixiebean22 wrote: »

What do you mean no comeback on the 7 years nonsense then? It was initially a domestic French proposal, not an EU wide proposal. If it does get implemented in France then they may be used as an example to other EU countries to follow suit. I don't understand what you want me to say here

The guy interviewed on RTE said “The EU don’t want me to ride my bike because it’s over 7 years old.” The protestors had a bike on a trailer with a slogan saying “EU say I’m too old for town”.

It was nonsense, and an example of how misinformed the protestors were. It’s not even being implemented in France now, and still people are going on about it.

subway

davoxx wrote: »

People are idiots and there will always be one

but i agree, i would not have a burnout if asked by a camera man trying to make news.

it severely weakens our case.

point in case, at work today, my boss said "were you at the protest? what was with that twat doing a burnout?"

now we are grouped with twats ...

now, just now? really? its been said over and over, people have probably always had an image of bikers as a bunch of gimps who are probably better off having their machines taken off them.
this type of crap was bound to happen and all it does is remind people how right they were to think it in the first place. 3000 bikers doing burnouts outside the dail is all they are thinking now. it'd be mad max if we didnt legislate them. and with bikers supporting drink driving, and making a show of us on camera i'm actually starting to wonder myself.

as for the protest, was it a day out or what?
i dont think i saw a signle person with their headlight off and i saw tons with hi-viz jackets and machines with ABS. given that the OBD and 7 yr claim are a load of ****e, did the crowd even understand what they are protesting?

daenerysstormborn3

MikeC101 wrote: »

No, it's not - but the media are always going to try for sensationalist crap, people needed a tiny amount of cop on not to rise to the bait. I’m not saying it was the end of the world – but you can’t complain about car drivers not obeying the rules, then shrug it off when a biker does the same.

Your attitude on this thread has been to blame car drivers, then shrug it off when a biker does something stupid. That’s all I’m commenting on. You can’t have it both ways.

The guy interviewed on RTE said “The EU don’t want me to ride my bike because it’s over 7 years old.” The protestors had a bike on a trailer with a slogan saying “EU say I’m too old for town”.

It was nonsense, and an example of how misinformed the protestors were. It’s not even being implemented in France now, and still people are going on about it.

There is a big difference between someone doing a burnout and car drivers not obeying the rules of the road. I thought that was very simple to understand.

And again, there is a big difference between a burnout and a car driver "doing something stupid". A car driver "doing something stupid" usually results in the nearest vehicle getting cut up.

And what does that guy on the news have to do with me? Your previous post read like I was the one who said that was being proposed for Ireland And in fairness, there were a lot of older bikes at our protest yesterday with similar signs and when I spoke to the owners they said they are showing solidarity with their EU counterparts, I don't see the problem with that.

These laws are EU wide, they won't just affect Irish bikers and people need educating about that aspect too.

-Chris-

Thread moved to Motorbikes as it's no longer Motors-relevant.

flyingsnail

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Oh really? Why is it then that these new measures for cars are being suggested for not until 2014?

Same happened with the IBT, bikes got singled out months ahead of cars.

There's just no reasoning with some people :rolleyes:

As far as I know the abs regulations for bikes would not come into effect until 2017 (source) and OBD has been mandatory on cars for some time.

Syllabus

davoxx wrote: »

Syllabus wrote: »

When i was filtering at a safe speed down the line of stationary traffic and the car driver decided he didnt want to be in the traffic anymore and turned into my path resulting in 2 cracked ribs it was the cars fault

is filtering legal?

It is as long as you dont cross the white line

Del2005

Eoin wrote: »

Last week I was cut up by someone pulling into the driving lane ahead of on the M50 to take the Dundrum exit. I'd we were no more than a few feet away at one stage doing 100km/h. If I had been hit, I may not have walked away from it, but I reckon unless I was really whacked into, it wouldn't have been a worst case scenario. If that car has as much clipped the front wheel of a bike, I suspect that it would have been a considerably more severe outcome.

That's what I meant by vulnerable user, and I think it's probably quite obvious. I'm not really interested into getting into pedantic empty arguments.

So you got cut up by someone when you where driving a CAR, with it's lights on I assume, yet you want motorcyclists to wear Hi Viz when people can't even see a junction that's signposted from over 1km away and a car beside them.

If the driver can't see a car or a huge sign, how would Hi Viz have helped a biker here?

HellsAngel

Tigger wrote: »

One of the proposalls is no bikes over 7 years in urban areas

Makes no sense And since I collect old bikes ( and mak them like new ) I really really object to this

This is what gets me. I have an 0'5 Honda Superfour. kept the bike in good condition etc. The things is, almost half of those who ride bikes aren't exactly loaded. In fact it tends to be your less well off person (like myself) who uses their bike 52 weeks of the year and simply CANNOT AFFORD FOUR WHEELS. SO what he F*** are we supposed to do ?? :mad:

The F*** beaureaucrats in Brussels can come up with all the bright ideas in theworld they want, but bikers aren't yuppies who ride Harley's ( and that's a few nice sunny Sunday's a year ) :mad: :mad:

Where's me AK47 :mad:

Eoin

Del2005 wrote: »

So you got cut up by someone when you where driving a CAR, with it's lights on I assume, yet you want motorcyclists to wear Hi Viz when people can't even see a junction that's signposted from over 1km away and a car beside them.

If the driver can't see a car or a huge sign, how would Hi Viz have helped a biker here?

*sigh*

I never said it would help on every single occasion. That particular example was just illustrating how I think I am less vulnerable than a biker, because of yet another irrelevant pedantic response to what I was saying.

In fact, I've said that I don't have particularly strong views on it either way. I just said that I don't understand why people wouldn't take every opportunity available to make themselves safer, especially something that seems as innocuous as hi vis because of image issues.

davoxx

we'll need to buy new bikes, have to pay to get it serviced, buy new clothing ....
is this just a money making exercise? or a distraction?

and then using motorbikes as justification, cars will be next?

i remember a car company (i think it was BMW) that wanted the Apple solution to cars. basically the whole engine bay was sealed except for oil and water. anything else had to go through an authorised dealer ...
they were marketing it as being 'safer' as the car was tamper proof ...