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Luas ticket machine fault, fare €45

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  • 20-09-2011 9:17am
    #1
    sean29
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭


    Hi All,

    When I was buying a return ticket the coins got stuck in the machine (3.30) and I had to travel without a ticket. On my way back I got fined 45 euro.

    I appealed saying that I lost my money in the machine but my appeal was rejected. It only stated 'the fare stands still as you were unable to produce a valid ticket.

    I appealed again saying to check reports/ cameras from that morning. Today I received an e-mail saying:

    I am in receipt of your latest email and wish to advise you that our daily reporting system was checked and there was no report recorded for a faulty ticket vending machine (TVM). Also that our Appeals Committee considered your appeal at a recent meeting and it was unanimously decided that your appeal was unsuccessful as you were unable to produce a valid ticket while travelling on Luas. In these circumstances your standard Fare notice remains in place and must be paid within 14 days. This now completes the appeals procedure and no further correspondence on the matter will be entered into

    Should I wait for them to bring me to the court or is there some other institution I could go into?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    I'd stay out of the courts if you can.

    You are kind of goosed that you didn't buy another ticket before embarking on your return leg.

    You should have done this and then you'd only be bringing up the matter of a 3.30 euro refund for the ticket that wasn't issued. Now you are at 45e with the prospect of going to court.

    Write to them again with exact timings and be prepared to pay the 45e to save yourself the grief.


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    #3
    myself69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭myself69


    The best thing you can do is stay out of the courts. Best advice anyone can give you.


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    #4
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    sean29 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    When I was buying a return ticket the coins got stuck in the machine (3.30) and I had to travel without a ticket. On my way back I got fined 45 euro.

    I appealed saying that I lost my money in the machine but my appeal was rejected. It only stated 'the fare stands still as you were unable to produce a valid ticket.

    I appealed again saying to check reports/ cameras from that morning. Today I received an e-mail saying:

    I am in receipt of your latest email and wish to advise you that our daily reporting system was checked and there was no report recorded for a faulty ticket vending machine (TVM). Also that our Appeals Committee considered your appeal at a recent meeting and it was unanimously decided that your appeal was unsuccessful as you were unable to produce a valid ticket while travelling on Luas. In these circumstances your standard Fare notice remains in place and must be paid within 14 days. This now completes the appeals procedure and no further correspondence on the matter will be entered into

    Should I wait for them to bring me to the court or is there some other institution I could go into?

    The part in bold is not correct, you chose to travel without a ticket. There are no stations with only 1 ticket machine.


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    #5
    sean29
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭sean29


    Thanks everyone for quick replies. According to them there was no report of that machine being faulty which is true as at the time of buying the ticket the screen was normal, just all the coins were stuck. I asked them to check again reports and times of transactions to see a big gap between my transaction and one after. I'll post their reply as soon as I get it.

    @schemingbohemia: what if all the only money I had was 3.30?


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    #6
    myself69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭myself69


    sean29 wrote: »

    @schemingbohemia: what if all the only money I had was 3.30?

    Before you traveled, you should have rang Luas Customer Care and told them the machine was faulty and your money was stuck.


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    #7
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    sean29 wrote: »
    Thanks everyone for quick replies. According to them there was no report of that machine being faulty which is true as at the time of buying the ticket the screen was normal, just all the coins were stuck. I asked them to check again reports and times of transactions to see a big gap between my transaction and one after. I'll post their reply as soon as I get it.

    @schemingbohemia: what if all the only money I had was 3.30?

    A few months ago, I went to Superquinn for my weekly shop, went around and loaded up the trolley only to find out at the till that I had left my cash and laser card at home. They didn't let me come back and pay the week after ;) If you have no means to get a ticket and if you chose to travel without one then unforturnately you can't travel on the Luas and you were liable for the charge, sorry to say.

    As an aside, did you report the machine ate up your coins after using it?


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    #8
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    I thought that there was always people availible to help you with difficulties with these machines. They usually wear a tracksuit uniform and are more popular along the red line. :p


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    #9
    sean29
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭sean29


    @myself69 & @Losty Dublin:
    I tried to report that but it was 5:30 in the morning and the lines are open from 7.

    Anyways off to work now (on the luas;))


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    #10
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    sean29 wrote: »
    @myself69 & @Losty Dublin:
    I tried to report that but it was 5:30 in the morning and the lines are open from 7.

    Anyways off to work now (on the luas;))
    Use the emergengy button if it happens again. Also that last email sounds like them ignoring you and fobbing you off, they claim to have checked the machine fault reports but did they check CCTV? it is likely that some of the scumbags that plague the luas red line have found a way to block the coin slots and when your coins get stuck and you walk away they come along later and empty the coin chute into their pockets.


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    #11
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Use the emergengy button ...

    This is not an emergency. It's a ticket machine fault.
    @schemingbohemia: what if all the only money I had was 3.30?

    You either decide not to travel or travel knowing the risk of receiving a standard fare.

    The problem is that you were caught on the return leg of the trip with no ticket. It's very difficult to justify this in an appeal.


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    #12
    Noo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Noo


    Pay €41.70 for the fine.


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    #13
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Pay them sweet f all.


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    #14
    angel01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭angel01


    Surely you had a bank card with you and could have withdrawn money for the return leg. You chose to get on a luas twice without paying and that to me is no excuse.


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    #15
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    sean29 wrote: »
    @myself69 & @Losty Dublin:
    I tried to report that but it was 5:30 in the morning and the lines are open from 7.

    You could have mentioned it to the driver. They could have then contacted the correct people.

    Or you could have called them at 7:01 and said that the machine at xxxx stop ate my money, can I go home for free? And they would have said no. So you needed to pay to go home or you could have worn a tracksuit with a bag of cans and got away with it.


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    #16
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Del2005 wrote: »
    You could have mentioned it to the driver. They could have then contacted the correct people.

    Luas drivers don't have any contact with passengers so that's a non option.


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    #17
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    OP paid for a ticket and the machine refused to give him one.

    Who's in the wrong here?


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    #18
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    A few months ago, I went to Superquinn for my weekly shop, went around and loaded up the trolley only to find out at the till that I had left my cash and laser card at home.
    What's that got to do with anything?


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    #19
    Jehuty42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Jehuty42


    n97 mini wrote: »
    OP paid for a ticket and the machine refused to give him one.

    Who's in the wrong here?

    OP, for not trying to get a ticket for his return journey.

    I have no problem with clemency in the situation described above, since it's not really his fault. But in the evening he did not have a ticket when he could have gotten one(the machine wasn't faulty). That deserves a fine, not what happened in the morning.


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    #20
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Jehuty42 wrote: »
    OP, for not trying to get a ticket for his return journey.

    I have no problem with clemency in the situation described above, since it's not really his fault. But in the evening he did not have a ticket when he could have gotten one(the machine wasn't faulty). That deserves a fine, not what happened in the morning.

    Considering the machine took his money for a return ticket, I think it's fair enough that he made a return journey.


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    #21
    JustAddWater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭JustAddWater


    n97 mini wrote: »
    What's that got to do with anything?

    Nothing! ... When you take it out of context....
    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    A few months ago, I went to Superquinn for my weekly shop, went around and loaded up the trolley only to find out at the till that I had left my cash and laser card at home. They didn't let me come back and pay the week after

    You don't need me to tell you what THAT means! It means, if you don't have money to pay for something, you can't just take it or use a service and then claim afterwards that it wasn't your fault. Maybe an explanation of the situation beforehand may gain some sympathy

    Sorry to be harsh OP but if you had called them as early as physically possible they might have helped but if you only tell them there's a problem once you're caught without a fare, they can't really believe your story and you won't min any appeals. The first leg of your trip, it could be said there's an argument for that but definitely not the return trip and definitely not without prior calls to the luas offices to advise

    I know the machine was taking coins but like others have said, that may not have thrown up any faults. It's a pain but live and learn

    And definitely avoid the courts....


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    #22
    Jehuty42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Jehuty42


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Considering the machine took his money for a return ticket, I think it's fair enough that he made a return journey.

    I don't.


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    #23
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    angel01 wrote: »
    You chose to get on a luas twice without paying and that to me is no excuse.
    OP did pay.


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    #24
    Jehuty42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Jehuty42


    CiaranC wrote: »
    OP did pay.

    His ticket is the proof of that, and seeing as he doesn't have one.. to play devil's advocate.

    I'm frankly inclined to believe that the machine was fine(as Veolia themselves are apparently saying, and they'd know infinitely better than any of us possibly could).


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    #25
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    As others have said, avoid going to court at absolutely all costs. It's just not worth it. Pay the fine, and if you're still inclined to recoup the dosh then do it after that. At least you won't have them chasing you -- you'll be chasing them.

    But tbh OP, you didn't buy a €1.70 fare on the way home. You also made no attempt to rectify the situation until the ticket-checker found you. It looks bad for you. Seeing as you're going all legal on this one, you would be advised that "legally" you don't really have a leg to stand on. You can't exactly twist Veolia's arm into going into *their* CCTV footage to prove that *you* don't owe them money. You don't have any proof whatsoever to back up your claim, and they aren't gonna shoot themselves in the foot by giving it to you. The law does not always mean justice.


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    #26
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    OP doesnt even have a toe to stand on, on the return journey he chose not to pay for a ticket, despite the ticket machine(s) being fully operational.


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    #27
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Jehuty42 wrote: »
    I'm frankly inclined to believe that the machine was fine(as Veolia themselves are apparently saying, and they'd know infinitely better than any of us possibly could).
    Why do you think it was fine when the OP said it wasn't? He was there at the time. You weren't and neither was anyone from Veolia.


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    #28
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    JustAddWater wrote: »
    Nothing! ... When you take it out of context....
    The story is out of context. OP had the machine take his money. The irrelevant story is about leaving money and cards at home. Not comparable.


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    #29
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Why do you think it was fine when the OP said it wasn't? He was there at the time. You weren't and neither was anyone from Veolia.

    What about the second unticketed journey OP took?


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    #30
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    What about the second unticketed journey OP took?
    Return or not it doesn't change the fact that he paid for the journey and the machine refused to issue a ticket.

    OP paid for return, it doesn't matter what direction he was going in.


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    #31
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The story is out of context. OP had the machine take his money. The irrelevant story is about leaving money and cards at home. Not comparable.

    The story wasn't out of context except maybe to your eyes and interest. OP asked what would happen on the Luas if he hadn't any money. I gave you a practical example of what a business renowned for customer service dealt with a customer who hadn't means to pay a bill at the time of asking ;)


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