Road deaths: Another record low year?

Zubeneschamali

According to the stats at the Garda National Traffic Bureau page, we look like having another record low in road deaths this year. The figure could be around 200. I'd put most of any improvement down to economic conditions this year.

Also at that page, drink driving arrests also down, but fixed charge notices for speeding, mobile use, seatbelts and "other" are up.

Chriscl1

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

According to the stats at the Garda National Traffic Bureau page, we look like having another record low in road deaths this year. The figure could be around 200. I'd put most of any improvement down to economic conditions this year.

Also at that page, drink driving arrests also down, but fixed charge notices for speeding, mobile use, seatbelts and "other" are up.

Has there been fewer rta's?? Maybe it's down to scrappage getting older less safe cars off the road.

Mr Benevolent

I consider the road death count to be a bit misleading. Severe/serious injury should be emphasised more in the road accident stats. Also, a significant number of road deaths are single vehicle/male/18-25, in other words the same group that has the highest incidence of suicide.

tmcw

Maybe it's down to more people with points (more fixed charges given), not wanting to get any more (less money to burn on penalties and resulting hikes in insurance), and taking a bit more care in how they drive (resulting in less accidents and fatalities).

Tenshot

Let's not forget a significant improvement in quality in roads over the past 10 years.

I can think of a number of stretches I drive regularly where, for example, road widening & straightening occurred, cross-junctions were removed and replaced by flyovers or underpasses or simply blocked off, etc.

pajo1981

Safer cars, fewer skangs on the road, people driving more slowly to save fuel?

Victor

I concur with the 200 figure. I think it will represent a bit of a plateau and that it may be difficult to get further reductions.

On injuries, there are concerns that many just aren't showing up in the Garda records. http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Publications/HealthProtection/Public_Health_/RTC-related_Hospital_Admissions_2005-2009,_A_Report.pdf

seamus

There appears to be a direct correlation in previous years between the number of drink-driving offences and a drop in road deaths.

Whether they're linked is hard to say, but it seems unlikely to be coincidence. There was a 15% drop in DWI arrests between 09 and 10 and a 12% drop in road deaths.

There has been a 7.5% drop in DWI arrests this year, which would probably pan out to a drop of 10 or 11 road deaths, so around 200.

Naturally a drop in DWI arrests could be down to less resources or less people on the road, but the road death figures seem to just as down.

It would seem natural to me that as we get tougher on drink-driving, those who do it habitually will eventually be caught, and very few others are going to start taking it up, so we should see a drop in drink-driving figures every year.

Zubeneschamali

Stats to 16/9:

Total Killed
2010:147 2011:131

Total Collisions
2010:127 2011:120

I take that Total Collisions figure to be the number of collisions involving a fatality, so deaths are running at 86%, and fatal collisions at 91%, meaning fatal collisions are down, but deaths are down by more.

Hard to know just what that means without a lot more detail. It might mean we're getting down to mostly single-drunk-occupant single-vehicle vs. stone bridge at 2 am type crashes, or just that we had fewer HGV takes out whole family crashes.

Zubeneschamali

Tenshot wrote: »

Let's not forget a significant improvement in quality in roads over the past 10 years.

This year vs. last? I didn't think there were a lot of schemes finishing since this time last year.

trad

I would say directly proportional to the price of fuel. Motorists are driving slower. Plus a lot of the sub 25 year old male group are now in Australia/ UK / Canada etc

Zubeneschamali

trad wrote: »

I would say directly proportional to the price of fuel. Motorists are driving slower.

Yet speeding fines are up?

No, I think the recession mostly affects driving because unemployed people do less than working people, and depressed sales and construction mean less trucks on the roads.

trad

Speeding fines are up thanks to the GoSafe vans lurking around the country snapping all day every day. Very few of those fine will be for record breaking speeds on a motorway. They would be for infringements of local and built up area speed limits.

Sofiztikated

Here's a funky idea.

Less people on the roads? Less people, fewer crashes.

heate

I think we should take some sort of pride in these figures in some way isn't it nice to live in a safer country.
The figures however have failed to omit the .5m people out of work and the journeys associated with that - sure look at the m50 at peak hours!
The clampdown on drink driving has a role to play - I just wish they'd stop doing so manh checkpoints in Dublinm; the one county where you can't do a100mph average with 10 people in you'd car!

trad

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Here's a funky idea.

Less people on the roads? Less people, fewer crashes.

Not necessarily so. In the 80's with far less cars on the road far more people died on the road.

These days roads are much better quality, cars are much safer and motorists attitude to drunken driving has changed enormously

Sofiztikated

trad wrote: »

Not necessarily so. In the 80's with far less cars on the road far more people died on the road.

These days roads are much better quality, cars are much safer and motorists attitude to drunken driving has changed enormously

I meant from this time last year. We're comparing year on year statistics here, not 3 decades ago.

Cuddlesworth

Have we not hit a plateau in road deaths, where no matter how much money we throw at it we are going to see comparable numbers year on year? I would have said that at around 200 we are looking at the level of human error in existence on our roads.

trad

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I meant from this time last year. We're comparing year on year statistics here, not 3 decades ago.

So I'll stick with the price of fuel and emigration. Just my 2c worth

Cionád

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Have we not hit a plateau in road deaths, where no matter how much money we throw at it we are going to see comparable numbers year on year? I would have said that at around 200 we are looking at the level of human error in existence on our roads.

Looking at the statistics, they are down consistenty year-on-year.

Better Roads (motorways) and safer cars are the main factors I'd say.

Interesting post showing the trends, and how the motorways/improvements have replaced some dangerous roads... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69830055&postcount=5

Mar4ix

trad wrote: »

So I'll stick with the price of fuel and emigration. Just my 2c worth

Agree...

Fines not stop people drink and drive or speeding. If compare to my native country, drink and drive fines are enormous (average 2 month wages + pay nearly half of that for seized car parking in police carpark while in jail) + 2 week jail+loose driver license for 2 years, and people still getting cough every day.... people die on roads, getting injured....

Sofiztikated

trad wrote: »

So I'll stick with the price of fuel and emigration. Just my 2c worth

Exactly. These lead to less people on the roads. How many young poeple (and older ones for that matter) that were road goers have emigrated? Immediately, that's less people on the roads.

Same again, factor in the price of petrol/diesel. This would keep an awful lot of people off the road, as they just can't afford to go for a spin whenever now.

Combine that with a less tolerant view of drink driving, and maybe, just maybe, people are slowing down and/or being more careful on the roads. (I doubt this last bit, I'm seeing more and more stupid things on the roads, and it's only a matter of time.)

savagecabbages

Better cars and roads, coupled with less younger drivers on the road. There are a LOT of the highest risk category in Australia/Canada at the moment. I wonder how the govt/RSA will play the safety camera element. Cameras come in, deaths go down. I can see a lot of political points scoring with this... I'm skeptical myself as to exactly how much of an influence the vans have on road deaths, it take a while before those statistics become apparent.



One thing which infuriates me is people putting the 2am single car deaths down to suicide:mad: Massive cop out...

Sofiztikated

savagecabbages wrote: »

Better cars and roads, coupled with less younger drivers on the road. There are a LOT of the highest risk category in Australia/Canada at the moment. I wonder how the govt/RSA will play the safety camera element. Cameras come in, deaths go down. I can see a lot of political points scoring with this... I'm skeptical myself as to exactly how much of an influence the vans have on road deaths, it take a while before those statistics become apparent.



One thing which infuriates me is people putting the 2am single car deaths down to suicide:mad: Massive cop out...

Obviously not all are down to suicide. But seriously, what do you suggest they are?

savagecabbages

Well many people brush every fatal young driver single car accident off as a suicide, not saying you do, but a lot of people do!

Without having access to the full statistics I'm only guessing, but I'd say many are down to driving too fast for the conditions/roads over which they are travelling, loosing control and not having enough experience to regain control. In other words, speed.

Zubeneschamali

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Obviously not all are down to suicide. But seriously, what do you suggest they are?

Drink driving. Driving while tired. Driving too fast on backroads, meeting the unexpected, losing control, hitting a tree, pole, bridge. Typical inexperienced, overconfident young fella stuff.

And before anyone takes offence, I was a young man once myself, and did most of those things, but lived.

I see no reason to bring suicide into it. Smashing up your car seems a very unreliable way to kill yourself to me (short of going over the Cliffs of Moher), and far too likely to end up with the driver just really, really badly injured.

But maybe there is some reason to suppose I'm wrong?

seamus

savagecabbages wrote: »

Well many people brush every fatal young driver single car accident off as a suicide, not saying you do, but a lot of people do!

I wouldn't say "every", but if you speak to any Garda who's done his/her time on the road, they'll tell you that the number of apparent suicides is a lot higher than people think.

Basically when you've got a vehicle which was quite clearly tipping long at a high speed, a direct collision with an immoveable object, no sign of any attempt to brake or avoid the object and no seatbelt, then it all looks a little fishy.
And these kinds of collisions are not rare at all.

But the nature of reporting (and of society) is such that these deaths may never be recorded as suicide (for a number of reasons) but will always be counted as road traffic fatalities.

It skews the reality, in the same way that an accident is recorded as "alcohol related", if any occupant of any of the vehicles is known to have consumed alcohol (though that may be an urban myth).

Zube - a head-on collision at 100kph+ with an immovable object is almost guaranteed to kill you. People who commit suicide don't really consider statistics or probabilities of their attempt. Men are also proven to choose more violent methods of suicide with a higher chance of success. It would seem to me that a collision with a tree at 100km/h+ would be a fairly reliable way out, at least as reliable as anything else. We very rarely actually see the aftermath of such high-speed collisions because in a normal scenario most people manage to massively reduce their speed before impact.

Sofiztikated

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Drink driving. Driving while tired. Driving too fast on backroads, meeting the unexpected, losing control, hitting a tree, pole, bridge. Typical inexperienced, overconfident young fella stuff.

And before anyone takes offence, I was a young man once myself, and did most of those things, but lived.

I see no reason to bring suicide into it. Smashing up your car seems a very unreliable way to kill yourself to me (short of going over the Cliffs of Moher), and far too likely to end up with the driver just really, really badly injured.

But maybe there is some reason to suppose I'm wrong?

Trust me, I'm not long out of being classed as a young fella, and did every one of them.

I don't believe all, or even most, are suicide, but it should be considered. Again, having a smash is an unreliable way to off yourself, but aren't we bombarded with "He Drives, She Dies" and "IF YOU GO OVER 50KPH AND CRASH, YOU WILL DIE, AND DIE SO HARD, YOU KILL YOUR FAMILY!!!one!111!!!"

I just think there is a huge number of factors in the reduced number of deaths on the roads, and not simply down to, what will be in the end, Safety Cameras are Saving Lives (TM)

challengemaster

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Drink driving. Driving while tired. Driving too fast on backroads, meeting the unexpected, losing control, hitting a tree, pole, bridge. Typical inexperienced, overconfident young fella stuff.

And before anyone takes offence, I was a young man once myself, and did most of those things, but lived.

Inexperience isn't just a trait of a young driver.. There's a lot of bad drivers out there, and I highly doubt the majority of them are young tbh.

There's people who can't go near bigger towns/cities because they can't manage to follow signage. People who can't use roundabouts because they didnt exist when they had their test. I even came across someone with the spacial awareness of a brick over the summer - older woman in a micra clutching to the steering wheel, driving at 60+km/h with the right half of the car (yes, half, as far as the grille) in a ditch on the side of the road, despite the fact the road was wide enough for 2 cars to pass easily, it just didn't have markings.

I see no reason to bring suicide into it. Smashing up your car seems a very unreliable way to kill yourself to me (short of going over the Cliffs of Moher), and far too likely to end up with the driver just really, really badly injured.

But maybe there is some reason to suppose I'm wrong?

Generally people who're contemplating suicide aren't exactly thinking 100%

Few years back when I was doing a first aid course, paramedics told us about one person who tried absolutely everything all at once. Took bottles of tablets, did the wrists, then got into the car and went driving at speed. He managed to crash the car into some water somewhere. It all backfired, as the tablets and cold water slowed down his heartrate to stop him bleeding out, paramedics arrived fairly promptly, got him to hospital and had his stomach pumped... talk about fluke

I'm not saying that every single car RTA in the early morning is a suicide, but come on, it's a bit naive to presume that none of them are either? And even with suspicion, they cant or wont rule it as one for the families sake.

seamus

Just without being completely grim/morbid about it, I dug up a crash test VW did a couple of years back @ 100km/h.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055620954
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TNFDeK6GLE

Basically the odds of surviving a crash at over 100km/h are practically nil. It's not just your body bouncing off stuff that causes injury, the actual sudden deceleration causes all sorts of internal issues in your body that makes it practically unsurvivable.

In most cases where someone has survived a 100km/h+ crash, it's because they didn't hit a solid object and stop dead or because there was some other mitigating factor which saved their life (like being thrown from the car).

If you fast forward to 3:45 in the video (I think), you can see the position of the driver. Imagine it without a seatbelt.

BrianD3

Major car passive safety improvements happened between say 1998 and 2005 but it takes several years for these new cars to filter down to the cheap car market. Now, as 90s and earlier cars die out a good proportion of this market consists of cars with 4 and 5 star NCAP ratings. Passive safety improvement since 2005 are probably less dramatic but are still happening and added to active safety tech (ESP etc.) on cheap new cars and I could see further reductions in deaths.

Even simple things like seatbelt buzzers make a difference particularly in countries like Ireland where there has been traditionally been poor compliance with seatbelt wearing laws. I know several people who only wore their seatbelt on "long journeys" or when they saw a Garda, now the buzzer annoys them into belting up everytime.

Obviously there are other factors. Just thinking back to the 90s it seemed that every week there were fatalities on single carriageway stretches of N roads like the N1, N4, N6 etc. Eg Dublin to Galway drivers on the N6 were getting stuck in traffic in places like Moate and then overtaking like lunatics to make up lost time. All changed now and in this example the motorway that bypasses Moate, Kilbeggan Tyrrellspass doesn't have a toll.

re: 100km/h crashes, that Golf test wasn't survivable. But this 80 km/h Laguna test was. There is a big difference between 100 and 80. Still, surviving an 80 km/h test would have been unthinkable not so long ago so who knows what will be survivable in the future with better restraint systems, adoption of EVs (which have potential safety advantages over IC engine cars due to packaging)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MsqJFoWSjI