Phoenix Park - Prepare for 3 months of gridlock!

MrJoeSoap

monument wrote: »

Is the diversion not only around 1km? How are you getting 5km extra?

Because using the North Road is not a valid option for me. It is therefore an extra 1.25km for me each-way to get to work, two days a week. 1.25km x 4 = 5km per week.

monument wrote: »

People walking, running, cycling and playing in the space is "nothing"?!

It seems nothing is important as driving in a national park?

There are cycle lanes either side of the road, and separate paths for running/walking. How many options do cyclists and pedestrians need?

daymobrew

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I'm on a motorbike. Give me a shout if you fancy a spin down the North Road. I'll even pay for your new underwear.

I have a motorbike license, though haven't had a bike for a number of years. I simply stood up when going over ramps.
I still have my helmet and full gear. I doubt that I'll need new underwear.
Still, the speed you go over the ramps is a big factor on the impact on your suspension.

monument

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I had stated "the road" in my previous post, rather than "the park". Get over it.

I'm on a motorbike. Give me a shout if you fancy a spin down the North Road. I'll even pay for your new underwear.

It's a ROAD in a park.

Graften Street is also a ROAD, and the ROADS in Paris and Central Park are also ROADS, even when closed to motor traffic.

No matter how you much you dislike it, roads can have more than one use.

Also a motorbike might explain the full tank of petrol per year bit -- was thinking of a car's petrol tank.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Because using the North Road is not a valid option for me. It is therefore an extra 1.25km for me each-way to get to work, two days a week. 1.25km x 4 = 5km per week.

There are cycle lanes either side of the road, and separate paths for running/walking. How many options do cyclists and pedestrians need?

It's not about me or you, it's about people in general and the use of a park for leisure and not just commuting and transport.

Keeping it open for hush hours is a good compromise.

BostonB

daymobrew wrote: »

Depends how you drive
As there likely other speed ramps and road defects on one's journey I doubt that the North Road's ramps would be the sole cause of suspension damage.

How often are people replacing their suspension???

The ramps on the north road are excessive. They are sub orbital launch ramps.

Morag

Glad that it's re opened, have emailed saying that as well.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

Yet anytime I was there it was used my a mix of people walking cycling and playing about.

Its easily proved if they put metrics on how many more people were on that stretch of road, and people using the rest of the park facilities, increased or decreased. If achieved the objectives, then why not keep it closed.

MrJoeSoap

daymobrew wrote: »

I have a motorbike license, though haven't had a bike for a number of years. I simply stood up when going over ramps.
I still have my helmet and full gear. I doubt that I'll need new underwear.
Still, the speed you go over the ramps is a big factor on the impact on your suspension.

I wasn't referring to the ramps, it's more the potholes and the patchwork quilt-esque road surface.

Godge

Does anyone have information from the Zoo on visitor numbers vis-a-vis the same period in the previous year?

Does anyone have information from Ashtown Castle on visitor numbers vis-a-vis the same period in the previous year?

That is the type of hard data that will give an answer.

Initially against the idea, I had mixed feelings subsequently. It was clear that some events during the summer were enhanced by the road being closed. At other times, when there were no events, it was deserted. My own visits to the Park were greatly reduced and the incentive to stop when passing through was gone. I also got the impression that some of the other routes (Furry Glen) saw less people stopping rather than more.

I have been watching since it re-opened. A couple of things of interest. Saw an elderly couple stop halfway down Chesterfield Ave one Saturday and walk over to a bench and sit down like it was their favourite bench. They wouldn't have been able to do that at weekends during the closure. A lot of cars park on that stretch while the occupants, elderly, people with small children or babies, wheelchair users, use the park amenities. The closure stopped them to a certain extent.

So now looking back, I think it better to be kept open except for weekends when the closure would add to the enjoyment of particular special events. But I am still interested in the visitor numbers.

BostonB

I was hoping they would be more special events to take advantage of it.

They close various roads for events all the time. So theres nothing unusual about that.

jack presley

Godge wrote: »

Initially against the idea, I had mixed feelings subsequently. It was clear that some events during the summer were enhanced by the road being closed. At other times, when there were no events, it was deserted. My own visits to the Park were greatly reduced and the incentive to stop when passing through was gone. I also got the impression that some of the other routes (Furry Glen) saw less people stopping rather than more.

I have been watching since it re-opened. A couple of things of interest. Saw an elderly couple stop halfway down Chesterfield Ave one Saturday and walk over to a bench and sit down like it was their favourite bench. They wouldn't have been able to do that at weekends during the closure. A lot of cars park on that stretch while the occupants, elderly, people with small children or babies, wheelchair users, use the park amenities. The closure stopped them to a certain extent.

When I use the park (apart from commuting) the section that was closed to traffic is where I used to park and from there I'd head off and do whatever I was doing, whether it be jogging, walking the dogs or like what you pointed out, just sitting on one of the benches.

I rarely went to the park at the weekend over the summer but I can see myself heading back there again now. The dogs will be delighted!

Godge

jack presley wrote: »

When I use the park (apart from commuting) the section that was closed to traffic is where I used to park and from there I'd head off and do whatever I was doing, whether it be jogging, walking the dogs or like what you pointed out, just sitting on one of the benches.

I rarely went to the park at the weekend over the summer but I can see myself heading back there again now. The dogs will be delighted!

It was inevitable that the park would lose people like you and me, those to whom it was convenient and who would stop along Chesterfield Avenue. That is only worth it if there was an increase in the number of others who were attracted to the park. I don't think the increase in visitor numbers happened which is why ultimately I am against the closure.

ThisRegard

Godge wrote: »

I have been watching since it re-opened. A couple of things of interest. Saw an elderly couple stop halfway down Chesterfield Ave one Saturday and walk over to a bench and sit down like it was their favourite bench. They wouldn't have been able to do that at weekends during the closure. A lot of cars park on that stretch while the occupants, elderly, people with small children or babies, wheelchair users, use the park amenities. The closure stopped them to a certain extent.

I wouldn't agree with this at all. Nothing stopped people with small children or babies (I'm one such person myself, throw 2 dogs into the mix and regular visits to Ashtown Castle for some great cake, the kiddies playground and occasional picnics after work during the summer), elderly people or wheelchair users visiting the park and using its amenities to any extent.

As has been said, it was a tiny stretch of road in the grand scheme of things closed to traffic and there's plenty of parking either side of the less than 1km (750 metres or so according to daymobrew) stretch of road.

jack presley wrote: »

When I use the park (apart from commuting) the section that was closed to traffic is where I used to park and from there I'd head off and do whatever I was doing, whether it be jogging, walking the dogs or like what you pointed out, just sitting on one of the benches.

Godge wrote: »

It was inevitable that the park would lose people like you and me, those to whom it was convenient and who would stop along Chesterfield Avenue.

C'mon, you could still park on Chesterfield Avenue and go off and do whatever you had to do, only those with very serious cases of OCD could claim to be affected.

Godge

ThisRegard wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with this at all. Nothing stopped people with small children or babies (I'm one such person myself, throw 2 dogs into the mix and regular visits to Ashtown Castle for some great cake, the kiddies playground and occasional picnics after work during the summer), elderly people or wheelchair users visiting the park and using its amenities to any extent.

As has been said, it was a tiny stretch of road in the grand scheme of things closed to traffic and there's plenty of parking either side of the less than 1km (750 metres or so according to daymobrew) stretch of road.

Well, I am afraid it did stop people including myself and others on this thread. As I said already, that was to be expected as with any change there are always some who lose out.

However, those who stopped going don't matter if overall numbers increased significantly which is why I am interested in visitor numbers for Ashtown Castle and the Zoo for a start.

If the change was about keeping the Phoenix Park only for a dedicated few who put up with the diversions, then let that be stated and made clear. If the casual visitor and the local who stopped on his way through are to be discouraged from using the park, say so. If that is the public policy decision, put it out there, personally I think if that is the reason then it is flawed.

jack presley

ThisRegard wrote: »

C'mon, you could still park on Chesterfield Avenue and go off and do whatever you had to do, only those with very serious cases of OCD could claim to be affected.

I come in from the northern end and the couple of times I did go down over the summer there was no or limited parking available along chesterfield between the OS roundabout and Castleknock gate and it was too much hassle to go all the way around to park on chesterfield down past the Aras.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

...C'mon, you could still park on Chesterfield Avenue and go off and do whatever you had to do, only those with very serious cases of OCD could claim to be affected.

If only people with OCD are affected, then it will have had negligible effect on numbers and they'll keep it closed. You might want to let people know that speed ramps only affect those with OCD. Wiki has it wrong apparently. " Studies show an average 18% reduction in traffic volume"

BostonB

I noticed a few times over the last few months, that ordnance survey road was nose to tail cars parking on the grass, at the edge of the road. both sides, Maybe it was some event or just a particularly nice day I dunno. In general I would say the park has been quieter, rather than busier. Though that could equally because it was so wet this summer too. TBH though its not really effected me that much. I don't really mind what they do with it.

I just looking forward to seeing Santa in the Meerkat Restaurant this year!

ThisRegard

BostonB wrote: »

I noticed a few times over the last few months, that ordnance survey road was nose to tail cars parking on the grass, at the edge of the road. both sides, Maybe it was some event

On weekends if the farmers market is on in Farmleigh you'll often get that.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

On weekends if the farmers market is on in Farmleigh you'll often get that.

Ah forgot about that. You do see a queue into it now and then.

nudger

There was pressure on this year to do something for the 350 celebrations, closing the main road at weekends and getting some face painters to come over was all they could afford or come up with.

If closing the middle part of the main road got people who are new to the park or only use the main road to commute, to visit other parts of the park which are far more scenic and might get them to come back to explore more then well done.

Exercise over, lets get back to normality.

jack presley

BostonB wrote: »

I noticed a few times over the last few months, that ordnance survey road was nose to tail cars parking on the grass, at the edge of the road. both sides,

They probably would have been parked on Chesterfield Avenue had it been open which would have saved the grass a bit.

daymobrew

I emailed some comments to the Phoenix Park Superintendent, superintendent.park@opw.ie

The weekend road closure of Chesterfield Avenue was an interesting idea. On the whole I welcomed it but it was a shame not to see regular events using the closed stretch, especially in the 350th anniversary year.

While I am in favour of reducing the excessive vehicular usage of the Phoenix Park I would like the OPW to consider parking options when roads are closed.
Chesterfield Avenue, with its hard shoulders, is ideal for parking that does not impact the grass. The weekend closures resulted in people parking on the grass on Ordnance Survey Road.
On good, sunny days, the open end of Furze Road was very busy, though the closure rewarded those willing to walk a few hundred metres to the picnic area at the other end of Furze Road. It was always nice and quiet.

Diverting traffic on to North Road certainly annoyed some people because the speed ramps there are excessively high. I don't like speed ramps as they punish the innocent - I would prefer to see actual enforcement of the law, but that is another topic.

On the subject of parking, can the OPW consider expanding the car park on Lord's Walk.
The Zoo is an immensely popular attraction and most people try to park correctly (i.e. off the grass) but the car park quickly fills on nice days. I realise that the Polo Grounds limit the options to the north.

BostonB

The parking like they have in Farmleigh, the matting that the grass grows though might be an option in places.

Pity there isn't some sort of continuous path/track around the park for cyclists, walkers and even a small train/tram (you know like a off road themed 4x4 pulling trailers) that could bring people through and around the park. That would open it up to more people than this messing around with road closures. At the moment all the paths and tracks are very disjointed and confused. A map with some trails and some signs suggesting routes would go a long way at minimal cost.

Also I wish they'd finish the surface on the cycle path at the Parkgate end of the park. its been stripped for ages.

ThisRegard

BostonB wrote: »

even a small train/tram (you know like a off road themed 4x4 pulling trailers) that could bring people through and around the park.

There used to be a shuttle bus around the park, it was always empty though.

BostonB

It was on the road though. So it got caught in traffic all the time. I think traffic was worse then too. Its not as bad these days.

muckwarrior

They're planning on building a new carpark in or around Ashtown castle. I saw the planning notice displayed near the entrance of the aras a week or two ago.

daymobrew

muckwarrior wrote: »

They're planning on building a new carpark in or around Ashtown castle. I saw the planning notice displayed near the entrance of the aras a week or two ago.

A 115 space overflow car park - read planning application.

monument

Let me get this right:

A) People against the closure are saying the park is huge, but...

The closed section is the only place they can park their cars?!

BostonB wrote: »

Its easily proved if they put metrics on how many more people were on that stretch of road, and people using the rest of the park facilities, increased or decreased. If achieved the objectives, then why not keep it closed.

Because it was their plan to reopen it in the review peiord and it would be wrong to not to stick to their plan just because things went their way.

jack presley wrote: »

They probably would have been parked on Chesterfield Avenue had it been open which would have saved the grass a bit.

Not likely when most or all of them were going to Farmleigh.

Godge wrote: »

If the change was about keeping the Phoenix Park only for a dedicated few who put up with the diversions, then let that be stated and made clear. If the casual visitor and the local who stopped on his way through are to be discouraged from using the park, say so. If that is the public policy decision, put it out there, personally I think if that is the reason then it is flawed.

Says part of the vocal minority of park users against it...

jack presley wrote: »

I come in from the northern end and the couple of times I did go down over the summer there was no or limited parking available along chesterfield between the OS roundabout and Castleknock gate and it was too much hassle to go all the way around to park on chesterfield down past the Aras.

You don't sound that arsed.

muckwarrior

jack presley wrote: »

I come in from the northern end and the couple of times I did go down over the summer there was no or limited parking available along chesterfield between the OS roundabout and Castleknock gate and it was too much hassle to go all the way around to park on chesterfield down past the Aras.

So you drove all the way to the park and then turned around and went home because there was only "limited" parking on your favourite road?

jack presley

muckwarrior wrote: »

So you drove all the way to the park and then turned around and went home because there was only "limited" parking on your favourite road?

No I went around these times but it put me off going more often.

wildlifeboy

in fairness. if i was going to farmleigh and i had to park near the aras i might not be arsed walking that far. although i would have just parked up anywhere on the grass.