Phoenix Park - Prepare for 3 months of gridlock!

Morag

Blocking the road to cars also means there is less places to park, in the park.
It also means it is harder to get to certain sections for people who don't know the back winding roads.

monument

Sharrow wrote: »

Blocking the road to cars also means there is less places to park, in the park.
It also means it is harder to get to certain sections for people who don't know the back winding roads.

The OPW has added more off-road car park in recent years, and the North Road / Odd Lamp Road diversion isn't very winding. It could do with being better sign posted, fair enough, but otherwise people will adapt.

ThisRegard

BostonB wrote: »

Close it for no logical reason and it make no sense, and you lose the goodwill of the local population.

Perfectly logical and sensible reasons have been given many times over in this thread. Just because you don't agree with them don't make them illogical and nonsensical.

Sharrow wrote: »

Blocking the road to cars also means there is less places to park, in the park.
It also means it is harder to get to certain sections for people who don't know the back winding roads.

There's no shortage of parking in the park. And so what if it's harder, at least they get to see nice areas of the park in their very slight de-tour.

A stranger unfamiliar with the park coming in reading this thread would think you have to make a 10 mile detour to get to places when at tops it's a couple of minutes.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

Perfectly logical and sensible reasons have been given many times over in this thread. Just because you don't agree with them don't make them illogical and nonsensical....

For example Can 'you' give me reasons for...

Why did they close the whole main road then only work on small sections at a time. When I was cycling past it over those months the vast majority wasn't been worked on for most of the time it was closed. So why not do one half then the other?

Why close North rd and make the gates one way while they repaired Blackhorse Ave, (which had no effect on the park) only under public pressure reopen a few weeks later. The roads works continued with no effect on the Park.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

...There's no shortage of parking in the park. And so what if it's harder, at least they get to see nice areas of the park in their very slight de-tour....

If the diversion has a positive effect on the stretch where the cars, have been diverted from. Logically, that would suggest it will have a negative effective on the areas the traffic gets diverted too. Especially if those areas have no cycle lanes and are much narrower than the main road. The Furry Glen for example.

Incidentally I saw a deer knocked down there, on the upper Glen rd a few weeks back. Haven't seen that in many years.

ThisRegard

BostonB wrote: »

For example Can 'you' give me reasons for...

Why did they close the whole main road then only work on small sections at a time. When I was cycling past it over those months the vast majority wasn't been worked on for most of the time it was closed. So why not do one half then the other?

Why close North rd and make the gates one way while they repaired Blackhorse Ave, (which had no effect on the park) only under public pressure reopen a few weeks later. The roads works continued with no effect on the Park.

None of this relates to the current weekend closures.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

...A stranger unfamiliar with the park coming in reading this thread would think you have to make a 10 mile detour to get to places when at tops it's a couple of minutes.

Thats true, but its not very well sign posted in general. But someone from Dublin I would hope would check on the map and from then on would know which way to go. The Park is essentially a ring road with one main road going up the middle.

Spaghetti junction it isn't.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

None of this relates to the current weekend closures.

Of course...

BostonB wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Close it for some event great. Close it for no logical reason and it make no sense, and you lose the goodwill of the local population. But that has certain been the pattern to many of the closures in the park over the years. .....

MrJoeSoap

A long way away, and not actually inside the walls of the park, but surely this would have a large impact on the roads in the park (and all commuter roads from Dublin 15 and beyond) if it happened:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0514/new-site-proposed-for-national-childrens-hospital.html

daymobrew

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

A long way away, and not actually inside the walls of the park, but surely this would have a large impact on the roads in the park (and all commuter roads from Dublin 15 and beyond) if it happened:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0514/new-site-proposed-for-national-childrens-hospital.html

I don't think that it would have a large impact. The area around North Circular Road and Dorset Street (with 3 hospitals - Mater, Mater Private and Temple Street) is not bad because of the hospitals. Parnell Square is not bad because of the Rotunda etc.

BostonB

I assume you mean, its bad because they are busy routes not simply because there is a hospital there.

But I think you have to assume that a major hospital does draw considerable traffic to itself. So the local infrastructure would have to have some spare capacity to take that.

Godge

One thing I have noticed in the last few weeks when travelling down Chesterfield Avenue during weekdays is a noticeable increase in traffic crossing Chesterfield Avenue at the roundabouts from both right and left.

Has the Law of Unintended Consequences come into effect? Has the aim of diverting traffic off Chesterfield Avenue at weekends led to drivers discovering other routes through the park that they weren't aware of and has that resulted in them using those routes on weekdays instead of other routes outside the park? What I mean is has the attempt to reduce traffic in the park actually increased that traffic?

daymobrew

BostonB wrote: »

I assume you mean, its bad because they are busy routes not simply because there is a hospital there.

In my frequent visits to those hospitals I found that the bad traffic was nearby but not at the hospitals.

BostonB wrote: »

But I think you have to assume that a major hospital does draw considerable traffic to itself. So the local infrastructure would have to have some spare capacity to take that.

I don't think that it does. Does Connolly Hospital have loads of traffic?

BostonB

daymobrew wrote: »

In my frequent visits to those hospitals I found that the bad traffic was nearby but not at the hospitals. I don't think that it does. Does Connolly Hospital have loads of traffic?

Oh for sure. I was agreeing with you.

Hard to know about Blanch it now has great access to and from the N3/M50. Also its half the size of the mater, never mind the with temple street. Dunno about day patient numbers. Also traffic to a hospital tends to be spread over 24/7 though obviously more during office hours.

donaghs

ThisRegard wrote: »

There's no shortage of parking in the park. And so what if it's harder, at least they get to see nice areas of the park in their very slight de-tour.

Taking your advice, last weekend, knowing the main road was closed, I took a slight detour from the Park Gate end, and then left at the first roundabout towards the Islandbridge Gate. Only to find, hey presto! The road to the Furry Glen was also blocked with bollards.

So I took an even bigger detour all the way back, and then around North Road back to the Castleknock exit

BostonB

They may have been filming something. Lots of TV location vans and equipment there. I noticed they've closed the Furze road for a while, and hence people have been parking on the grass along Ordnance Rd.

ThisRegard

donaghs wrote: »

Taking your advice, last weekend, knowing the main road was closed, I took a slight detour from the Park Gate end, and then left at the first roundabout towards the Islandbridge Gate. Only to find, hey presto! The road to the Furry Glen was also blocked with bollards.

So I took an even bigger detour all the way back, and then around North Road back to the Castleknock exit

Where exactly was the road blocked ? If you took the left at the roundabout you get to when coming into the park from the Parkgate Street end the road is always closed off with bollards on Military Road preventing you getting as far as the Chapelizod Gate/Acres Road. I'm guessing that's where you met the bollards ?

I know it's of no use to you now but to get to the Furry Glen you stay on Chesterfield Avenue until the Phoenix Monument/roundabout where Chesterfield Avenue is closed and take the left there.

MrJoeSoap

Apologies if this has it's own thread already, couldn't see one. The road is now open again at weekends and the closure is being reviewed. Anyone with a view on this should e-mail the address below...

Chesterfield Avenue will be open to vehicular traffic from Friday October 5th until further notice.
A review is being undertaken following the six month trial road closure that has been in place on Chesterfield Avenue at the weekends.
It is important to us to consult with members of the public and stakeholders with regard to the Chesterfield Avenue road closure at the weekends and all comments and observations are welcome and should be forwarded to superintendent.park@opw.ie or 01 821 3021
We hope you continue to enjoy the recreational amenities of this National Historic Park.

http://www.phoenixpark.ie/newsevents/title,18182,en.html

yoda2001

Thank you for this link. I often take my children to the playground or the papal cross for a run. The closure of the main road is keeping us out of the park at weekends.

Shane O' Malley

yoda2001 wrote: »

Thank you for this link. I often take my children to the playground or the papal cross for a run. The closure of the main road is keeping us out of the park at weekends.

Cant understand why it was keeping you out of the park. The park was fully open with the playground and papal cross easily accessible.

MrJoeSoap

Having the park closed at weekends adds about 5km to my weekly commute, about a full tank of petrol per year. After spending €3m to repair and resurface it, to close it off at the weekend just seems absurd, especially when there is nothing happening on the road during the day and even less at night.

I've still yet to hear a convincing argument as to why it should be closed. The official reason given at the time of the closure (to allow people to discover other areas of the park) makes no sense.

jack presley

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Having the park closed at weekends adds about 5km to my weekly commute, about a full tank of petrol per year. After spending €3m to repair and resurface it, to close it off at the weekend just seems absurd, especially when there is nothing happening on the road during the day and even less at night.

I've still yet to hear a convincing argument as to why it should be closed. The official reason given at the time of the closure (to allow people to discover other areas of the park) makes no sense.

I remember the arguments at the time were that it would make the park safer and kids could run around and not worry about getting knocked down.

My answers to that were (1) do we really think it's a good idea to teach our kids to run around in the vicinity of roads regardless of whether they are temporarily closed or not? and (2) how much space to people need to walk around freely without traffic? It's one of the biggest city parks in the world and is over 1,500 acres in size. How much space do you want? There are tonnes of areas in the park hundreds of metres from roads where you can roam, let your kids run wild without the worry of cars.

BostonB

Never made sense to me to encourage kids to play on a road. Or force traffic down Furry Glen which is a recreational area and a small narrow twisty road. Perhaps if they run more events on it to use the space. But it was basically as ghost town when it was closed. This shouldn't have been a surprise as it was the same when they did the roadworks. They wasted an opportunity to make use of it IMO. The main aim seems to be inconvenience drivers and improve the park secondary to that.

We generally stop in the park on the way back from places. But tended to go a different way with the road closed, which meant we didn't stop as much as we have in the past.

robertxxx

Opw really do some strange things, remember all the crap with the one way entrance stuff at Cabra and Ashtown one week it was two way next it wasn't next it is!?!?!?!

ThisRegard

I don't understand how the myth is still out there that the park has been 'closed' at weekends during this trial. I can only come to the conclusion that people saying this simply haven't been there.

Around 1km of road was closed to traffic, and the alteranitive around the North Road is only 1km longer.

Some people never let the facts get in the way of a good internet argument though.

BostonB

I assume they didn't mean the park, literally "as the entire park". Those ramps especially those as severe as on the north road tend to make me avoid a route. I used to use North rd a lot. But it caused too much wear on my suspension. So I avoid it now if I can. Of course the alternatives of Chapelizod, and Blackhorse Ave also have ramps. So that leaves the Navan Road or the Furry Glen. If your happy to bounce your way around thats great. I choose to avoid it myself.

MrJoeSoap

ThisRegard wrote: »

I don't understand how the myth is still out there that the park has been 'closed' at weekends during this trial. I can only come to the conclusion that people saying this simply haven't been there.

Around 1km of road was closed to traffic, and the alteranitive around the North Road is only 1km longer.

Some people never let the facts get in the way of a good internet argument though.

When I said the park was "closed", I was referring to that stretch of Chesterfield Avenue. I was not trying to make it sound like the entire park was closed (see my previous post), and nor was it even remotely true that I haven't been there. I'm there dozens of times each week.

What you have done is picked up on one error in a post and made it sound like people are twisting the truth for the sake of an internet argument.

BostonB

I assume if it was a success they'd be keeping it closed. Maybe I'm wrong.

MrJoeSoap

BostonB wrote: »

I assume if it was a success they'd be keeping it closed. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'd imagine it would be quite hard to gauge if it has been a success when the initial aim of the whole thing was not clear...

ThisRegard

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

When I said the park was "closed", I was referring to that stretch of Chesterfield Avenue.

It was hyperbole. Same when people describe the affects that a 1km stretch of road closures on a weekend has when there's an alternative that's only 1km longer.