Phoenix Park - Prepare for 3 months of gridlock!

monument

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

After spending €3m to repair and resurface it, to close it off at the weekend just seems absurd...

Not at all.

Keeping a road IN A PARK accessible for rush hour traffic and then reverting it to leisure outside of peak traffic times seems to be a good compromise given the park is by law suposed to be for leisure use.

Central Park in New York closes its roads to motor traffic ever day inbetween rush hours, even at night.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Having the park closed at weekends adds about 5km to my weekly commute,

Is the diversion not only around 1km? How are you getting 5km extra?

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

especially when there is nothing happening on the road during the day and even less at night

People walking, running, cycling and playing in the space is "nothing"?!

It seems nothing is important as driving in a national park?

jack presley wrote: »

My answers to that were (1) do we really think it's a good idea to teach our kids to run around in the vicinity of roads regardless of whether they are temporarily closed or not?

Paris closes part of its river side motorway for a month in the summer and NYC closes Central Park's roads daily outside of rush hours in the morning and evening -- people manage to tell the difference and there was no spike in deaths or injuries.

jack presley wrote: »

and (2) how much space to people need to walk around freely without traffic? It's one of the biggest city parks in the world and is over 1,500 acres in size. How much space do you want? There are tonnes of areas in the park hundreds of metres from roads where you can roam, let your kids run wild without the worry of cars.

Besides the very centre of the park, there's actually not that many places in the park "hundreds of metres" from roads.

And grass or other areas away from a good surface does not really help those who want to cycle, rollerblade etc.

And before you suggest the cycle lanes around the park -- these are hardly suitable or large enoufe for adult cyclists, never mind a mix of walkers, joggers, children on bikes and people on rollerblades. are you getting 5km extra?

yoda2001 wrote: »

Thank you for this link. I often take my children to the playground or the papal cross for a run. The closure of the main road is keeping us out of the park at weekends.

The diversion was tiny.

Just shows that the OPW need to get their PR and signage right if trying anything again.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

I assume if it was a success they'd be keeping it closed. Maybe I'm wrong.

It was always planned to be re-opened after the trial.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

When I said the park was "closed", I was referring to that stretch of Chesterfield Avenue. I was not trying to make it sound like the entire park was closed (see my previous post), and nor was it even remotely true that I haven't been there. I'm there dozens of times each week.

What you have done is picked up on one error in a post and made it sound like people are twisting the truth for the sake of an internet argument.

When you make a mistake, it's up to you to correct your self.

Untill then, you can't blaim people for thinking you were saying what you said.

daymobrew

monument wrote: »

Is the diversion not only around 1km? How are you getting 5km extra?

Using Gmap Pedometer I measured the distance between Mountjoy Cross and Phoenix Monument. It is 1.24km along Chesterfield Avenue. It is 1.95km via North Road. The North Road is 710m longer.

BostonB

But more expensive in suspension repairs though.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

...
People walking, running, cycling and playing in the space is "nothing"?!...

Any time I was on it at the weekend it seemed pretty much deserted. Apart from the odd cyclist.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

Any time I was on it at the weekend it seemed pretty much deserted. Apart from the odd cyclist.

Yet anytime I was there it was used my a mix of people walking cycling and playing about.

muckwarrior

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Having the park closed at weekends adds about 5km to my weekly commute, about a full tank of petrol per year.

Well boo hoo. It's a park not a frickin motorway. Just count yourself lucky that you can commute through it at all.

folan

i was jogging on it for a good part of the last few months. it was nice to have the extra bit of quiet road to get through.

ive seen it used for cycling, skating, remote control cars (which i didnt like) and cycling. ive seen it used for some strange exercise machine (an outdoor cross trainer by the looks of it).

it made a small part of the park more accessible to peds. that was fine as far as i was concerned.

daymobrew

BostonB wrote: »

But more expensive in suspension repairs though.

Depends how you drive
As there likely other speed ramps and road defects on one's journey I doubt that the North Road's ramps would be the sole cause of suspension damage.

How often are people replacing their suspension???

MrJoeSoap

monument wrote: »

When you make a mistake, it's up to you to correct your self.

Untill then, you can't blaim people for thinking you were saying what you said.

I had stated "the road" in my previous post, rather than "the park". Get over it.

daymobrew wrote: »

Depends how you drive
As there likely other speed ramps and road defects on one's journey I doubt that the North Road's ramps would be the sole cause of suspension damage.

How often are people replacing their suspension???

I'm on a motorbike. Give me a shout if you fancy a spin down the North Road. I'll even pay for your new underwear.

muckwarrior wrote: »

Well boo hoo. It's a park not a frickin motorway. Just count yourself lucky that you can commute through it at all.

It's a ROAD in a park.

MrJoeSoap

monument wrote: »

Is the diversion not only around 1km? How are you getting 5km extra?

Because using the North Road is not a valid option for me. It is therefore an extra 1.25km for me each-way to get to work, two days a week. 1.25km x 4 = 5km per week.

monument wrote: »

People walking, running, cycling and playing in the space is "nothing"?!

It seems nothing is important as driving in a national park?

There are cycle lanes either side of the road, and separate paths for running/walking. How many options do cyclists and pedestrians need?

daymobrew

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I'm on a motorbike. Give me a shout if you fancy a spin down the North Road. I'll even pay for your new underwear.

I have a motorbike license, though haven't had a bike for a number of years. I simply stood up when going over ramps.
I still have my helmet and full gear. I doubt that I'll need new underwear.
Still, the speed you go over the ramps is a big factor on the impact on your suspension.

monument

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I had stated "the road" in my previous post, rather than "the park". Get over it.

I'm on a motorbike. Give me a shout if you fancy a spin down the North Road. I'll even pay for your new underwear.

It's a ROAD in a park.

Graften Street is also a ROAD, and the ROADS in Paris and Central Park are also ROADS, even when closed to motor traffic.

No matter how you much you dislike it, roads can have more than one use.

Also a motorbike might explain the full tank of petrol per year bit -- was thinking of a car's petrol tank.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Because using the North Road is not a valid option for me. It is therefore an extra 1.25km for me each-way to get to work, two days a week. 1.25km x 4 = 5km per week.

There are cycle lanes either side of the road, and separate paths for running/walking. How many options do cyclists and pedestrians need?

It's not about me or you, it's about people in general and the use of a park for leisure and not just commuting and transport.

Keeping it open for hush hours is a good compromise.

BostonB

daymobrew wrote: »

Depends how you drive
As there likely other speed ramps and road defects on one's journey I doubt that the North Road's ramps would be the sole cause of suspension damage.

How often are people replacing their suspension???

The ramps on the north road are excessive. They are sub orbital launch ramps.

Morag

Glad that it's re opened, have emailed saying that as well.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

Yet anytime I was there it was used my a mix of people walking cycling and playing about.

Its easily proved if they put metrics on how many more people were on that stretch of road, and people using the rest of the park facilities, increased or decreased. If achieved the objectives, then why not keep it closed.

MrJoeSoap

daymobrew wrote: »

I have a motorbike license, though haven't had a bike for a number of years. I simply stood up when going over ramps.
I still have my helmet and full gear. I doubt that I'll need new underwear.
Still, the speed you go over the ramps is a big factor on the impact on your suspension.

I wasn't referring to the ramps, it's more the potholes and the patchwork quilt-esque road surface.

Godge

Does anyone have information from the Zoo on visitor numbers vis-a-vis the same period in the previous year?

Does anyone have information from Ashtown Castle on visitor numbers vis-a-vis the same period in the previous year?

That is the type of hard data that will give an answer.

Initially against the idea, I had mixed feelings subsequently. It was clear that some events during the summer were enhanced by the road being closed. At other times, when there were no events, it was deserted. My own visits to the Park were greatly reduced and the incentive to stop when passing through was gone. I also got the impression that some of the other routes (Furry Glen) saw less people stopping rather than more.

I have been watching since it re-opened. A couple of things of interest. Saw an elderly couple stop halfway down Chesterfield Ave one Saturday and walk over to a bench and sit down like it was their favourite bench. They wouldn't have been able to do that at weekends during the closure. A lot of cars park on that stretch while the occupants, elderly, people with small children or babies, wheelchair users, use the park amenities. The closure stopped them to a certain extent.

So now looking back, I think it better to be kept open except for weekends when the closure would add to the enjoyment of particular special events. But I am still interested in the visitor numbers.

BostonB

I was hoping they would be more special events to take advantage of it.

They close various roads for events all the time. So theres nothing unusual about that.

jack presley

Godge wrote: »

Initially against the idea, I had mixed feelings subsequently. It was clear that some events during the summer were enhanced by the road being closed. At other times, when there were no events, it was deserted. My own visits to the Park were greatly reduced and the incentive to stop when passing through was gone. I also got the impression that some of the other routes (Furry Glen) saw less people stopping rather than more.

I have been watching since it re-opened. A couple of things of interest. Saw an elderly couple stop halfway down Chesterfield Ave one Saturday and walk over to a bench and sit down like it was their favourite bench. They wouldn't have been able to do that at weekends during the closure. A lot of cars park on that stretch while the occupants, elderly, people with small children or babies, wheelchair users, use the park amenities. The closure stopped them to a certain extent.

When I use the park (apart from commuting) the section that was closed to traffic is where I used to park and from there I'd head off and do whatever I was doing, whether it be jogging, walking the dogs or like what you pointed out, just sitting on one of the benches.

I rarely went to the park at the weekend over the summer but I can see myself heading back there again now. The dogs will be delighted!

Godge

jack presley wrote: »

When I use the park (apart from commuting) the section that was closed to traffic is where I used to park and from there I'd head off and do whatever I was doing, whether it be jogging, walking the dogs or like what you pointed out, just sitting on one of the benches.

I rarely went to the park at the weekend over the summer but I can see myself heading back there again now. The dogs will be delighted!

It was inevitable that the park would lose people like you and me, those to whom it was convenient and who would stop along Chesterfield Avenue. That is only worth it if there was an increase in the number of others who were attracted to the park. I don't think the increase in visitor numbers happened which is why ultimately I am against the closure.

ThisRegard

Godge wrote: »

I have been watching since it re-opened. A couple of things of interest. Saw an elderly couple stop halfway down Chesterfield Ave one Saturday and walk over to a bench and sit down like it was their favourite bench. They wouldn't have been able to do that at weekends during the closure. A lot of cars park on that stretch while the occupants, elderly, people with small children or babies, wheelchair users, use the park amenities. The closure stopped them to a certain extent.

I wouldn't agree with this at all. Nothing stopped people with small children or babies (I'm one such person myself, throw 2 dogs into the mix and regular visits to Ashtown Castle for some great cake, the kiddies playground and occasional picnics after work during the summer), elderly people or wheelchair users visiting the park and using its amenities to any extent.

As has been said, it was a tiny stretch of road in the grand scheme of things closed to traffic and there's plenty of parking either side of the less than 1km (750 metres or so according to daymobrew) stretch of road.

jack presley wrote: »

When I use the park (apart from commuting) the section that was closed to traffic is where I used to park and from there I'd head off and do whatever I was doing, whether it be jogging, walking the dogs or like what you pointed out, just sitting on one of the benches.

Godge wrote: »

It was inevitable that the park would lose people like you and me, those to whom it was convenient and who would stop along Chesterfield Avenue.

C'mon, you could still park on Chesterfield Avenue and go off and do whatever you had to do, only those with very serious cases of OCD could claim to be affected.

Godge

ThisRegard wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with this at all. Nothing stopped people with small children or babies (I'm one such person myself, throw 2 dogs into the mix and regular visits to Ashtown Castle for some great cake, the kiddies playground and occasional picnics after work during the summer), elderly people or wheelchair users visiting the park and using its amenities to any extent.

As has been said, it was a tiny stretch of road in the grand scheme of things closed to traffic and there's plenty of parking either side of the less than 1km (750 metres or so according to daymobrew) stretch of road.

Well, I am afraid it did stop people including myself and others on this thread. As I said already, that was to be expected as with any change there are always some who lose out.

However, those who stopped going don't matter if overall numbers increased significantly which is why I am interested in visitor numbers for Ashtown Castle and the Zoo for a start.

If the change was about keeping the Phoenix Park only for a dedicated few who put up with the diversions, then let that be stated and made clear. If the casual visitor and the local who stopped on his way through are to be discouraged from using the park, say so. If that is the public policy decision, put it out there, personally I think if that is the reason then it is flawed.

jack presley

ThisRegard wrote: »

C'mon, you could still park on Chesterfield Avenue and go off and do whatever you had to do, only those with very serious cases of OCD could claim to be affected.

I come in from the northern end and the couple of times I did go down over the summer there was no or limited parking available along chesterfield between the OS roundabout and Castleknock gate and it was too much hassle to go all the way around to park on chesterfield down past the Aras.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

...C'mon, you could still park on Chesterfield Avenue and go off and do whatever you had to do, only those with very serious cases of OCD could claim to be affected.

If only people with OCD are affected, then it will have had negligible effect on numbers and they'll keep it closed. You might want to let people know that speed ramps only affect those with OCD. Wiki has it wrong apparently. " Studies show an average 18% reduction in traffic volume"

BostonB

I noticed a few times over the last few months, that ordnance survey road was nose to tail cars parking on the grass, at the edge of the road. both sides, Maybe it was some event or just a particularly nice day I dunno. In general I would say the park has been quieter, rather than busier. Though that could equally because it was so wet this summer too. TBH though its not really effected me that much. I don't really mind what they do with it.

I just looking forward to seeing Santa in the Meerkat Restaurant this year!

ThisRegard

BostonB wrote: »

I noticed a few times over the last few months, that ordnance survey road was nose to tail cars parking on the grass, at the edge of the road. both sides, Maybe it was some event

On weekends if the farmers market is on in Farmleigh you'll often get that.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

On weekends if the farmers market is on in Farmleigh you'll often get that.

Ah forgot about that. You do see a queue into it now and then.

nudger

There was pressure on this year to do something for the 350 celebrations, closing the main road at weekends and getting some face painters to come over was all they could afford or come up with.

If closing the middle part of the main road got people who are new to the park or only use the main road to commute, to visit other parts of the park which are far more scenic and might get them to come back to explore more then well done.

Exercise over, lets get back to normality.

jack presley

BostonB wrote: »

I noticed a few times over the last few months, that ordnance survey road was nose to tail cars parking on the grass, at the edge of the road. both sides,

They probably would have been parked on Chesterfield Avenue had it been open which would have saved the grass a bit.