Adding subjects....

chunli_boom

Hey I was just wondering if anyone knew if there was short courses you can do to add subjects to your existing teaching council registered soubjects? Is there anyway to add something like religion or sphe without going to college for three years? I have only history and cspe and would like something else to top that up.

Thanks!

gaeilgebeo

chunli_boom wrote: »

Hey I was just wondering if anyone knew if there was short courses you can do to add subjects to your existing teaching council registered soubjects? Is there anyway to add something like religion or sphe without going to college for three years? I have only history and cspe and would like something else to top that up.

Thanks!

Just to point out, Religion is an exam subject in a lot of schools.
Of course you will need a degree in it.

10.9

I think there is a course specifically aimed at teachers in St Pats College Maynooth which will allow you to teach religion as a subject. Its a one year postgrad course. Im not so sure of the details but you should check it out coz a girl in the school im in is doing it!

http://www.maynoothcollege.ie/courses/diplomas/hdiptheo.shtml

Dionysus

chunli_boom wrote: »

Hey I was just wondering if anyone knew if there was short courses you can do to add subjects to your existing teaching council registered soubjects? Is there anyway to add something like religion or sphe without going to college for three years? I have only history and cspe and would like something else to top that up.

Thanks!

This is not what you want to hear but, in fairness to people who put the work in, just go to college at night and get the qualification that way. I'm back in college at night (6 hours lectures per week) doing a degree again to get a further 60 credits in order to be properly qualified in the eyes of the Teaching Council to teach another subject. Aside from the huge amount of time on top of work which this is costing me, it is also costing me just shy of €6000 over the next two years.

There are no short cuts, nor should there be.

chunli_boom

I'm not looking for a 'short cut'. I just haven't been able to find work (like many others) and don't have the financial means to do a night course like the one you were suggesting.

It's very disheartening having CSPE as a second subject. A friend of mine got a job as an art teacher and got 5 hours teaching CSPE to jr cert classes and doesn't have the first clue of it. I would jump at the chance to teach 5 hours of CSPE. It's so frustrating....

gaeilgebeo

chunli_boom wrote: »

I'm not looking for a 'short cut'. I just haven't been able to find work (like many others) and don't have the financial means to do a night course like the one you were suggesting.

It's very disheartening having CSPE as a second subject. A friend of mine got a job as an art teacher and got 5 hours teaching CSPE to jr cert classes and doesn't have the first clue of it. I would jump at the chance to teach 5 hours of CSPE. It's so frustrating....

I do sympathise with your job situation, things are pretty bad at the minute.
However, you must remember that CSPE is used as a timetable "filler" in a lot of schools.
I have 2 class groups this year too and it is not my subject.
You are wise to add another subject if possible.

mimmi

With RE you may well need a methadology course as well as 60ECTS credits - check with TC.

dazzeremo

im in the same boat chunli boom, I have asked the same question. There does not appear to be any 'quick win' in terms of getting TC approved qualifications. As has been pointed out however, once you are teaching in the school, it would appear that this strictness doesn't really apply. I know DCU do an oscail course (B.A in history/CSPE/English) but im not sure this would be of any use to you. If it is an option, perhaps explore teaching in the UK or further afield to gain experience, and then maybe when you return it will stand to you.

chunli_boom

Thanks for all the advice! I've actually completed a celta course and have picked up work in tefl which is great so I'm content enough without moving to England. It just drives me mad though that I'm paying €90 to a futile council that can't ensure that qualified teachers are teaching the subjects they are actually qualified in.

When I was doing my dip I was the only qualified cspe teacher in the school and the kids got the shock of their lives that we were actually going to do things in class and not watch the inbetweeners....(yes a teacher showed a bunch of 13-14 the inbetweeners for cspe)

rainbowtrout

chunli_boom wrote: »

I'm not looking for a 'short cut'. I just haven't been able to find work (like many others) and don't have the financial means to do a night course like the one you were suggesting.

It's very disheartening having CSPE as a second subject. A friend of mine got a job as an art teacher and got 5 hours teaching CSPE to jr cert classes and doesn't have the first clue of it. I would jump at the chance to teach 5 hours of CSPE. It's so frustrating....

Jobs for CSPE are not advertised. If you see CSPE in a job advert it's listed with at least two other exam subjects as part of the job requirement. As long as CSPE remains a common level subject without an equivalent Leaving Cert exam subject it will not be taken seriously in any school. It's certainly not taken seriously in mine, at least half the staff have had CSPE, SPHE or Religion on their timetables at one stage or another.

Your experience of CSPE might have been that the teacher showed videos in class, but that's not the way every school operates. That's just one school. But the fact that you were the only teacher in the school with a CSPE qualfication should probably tell you how the subject is viewed generally.

On the other hand, you were aware that CSPE was going to be one of your subjects on graduation. You haven't mentioned what your other subject is. I would hope that you were aware on doing the PGDE that realistically you only had one teaching subject.

No principal wants to get stuck with a teacher who has only one teaching subject (not counting CSPE), particular if it is not a core subject such as English, Irish or Maths. If they hire a teacher with only one exam subject they will have difficulty filling their timetable, or have to give them subjects they are not qualified in... and you know the argument about that one. So most principals will want a teacher with at least two subjects. It gives them more flexibility. They will use CSPE rightly or wrongly to fill spaces in timetables.

Art is one of those subjects where usually the teacher only has the one subject. If an Art teacher is needed they have to be hired, it's a specialist subject area. If there are not enough hours to fill their timetable then they get filled with other things, CSPE, SPHE and IT are common targets.

UnLuckyAgain

You can add Maths to your degree by taking modules with the Open University (recognised by the Teaching Council already). If you have Maths in your first year of your degree then you only need to take 3 modules (depending on how many credits you have already) and I think if you have no maths there's 4 modules you have to take! All the info is here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056306696

chunli_boom

My other subject is History and I haven't done Maths in college so I don't think that would be an option. Thanks for the link though!

After studying History and Politics in college I was aware that my subjects would be History and CSPE. I just wasn't aware that CSPE wouldn't be advertised. My CSPE lecturer was quite positive about CSPE vacancies. Oh well.

I just wish that CSPE was taken seriously as I feel it has the potential to be one of the most interesting and useful subjects for later life. I think civic minded students with opinions on society and politics would be quite useful to the future of this country!;)

vamos!

Ive read the OU maths thread with interest but I know that I cant study maths... anything but maths and sciences! Has anybody studied English or an MFL with the OU and had it accredited by the TC? Im qualified to teach 2 languages and speak a third but obv cant teach it anymore. Id love to do an OU degree to get a Spanish or Italian and English qualification but I know the TC have been really fussy about languages in the past. Anyone done it?

rainbowtrout

chunli_boom wrote: »

My other subject is History and I haven't done Maths in college so I don't think that would be an option. Thanks for the link though!

After studying History and Politics in college I was aware that my subjects would be History and CSPE. I just wasn't aware that CSPE wouldn't be advertised. My CSPE lecturer was quite positive about CSPE vacancies. Oh well.

I just wish that CSPE was taken seriously as I feel it has the potential to be one of the most interesting and useful subjects for later life. I think civic minded students with opinions on society and politics would be quite useful to the future of this country!;)

Unfortunately the lecturers will tell you anything to get you to do CSPE. No one would do it if there were 'no jobs' in it.

PeeWe

chunli_boom wrote: »

Hey I was just wondering if anyone knew if there was short courses you can do to add subjects to your existing teaching council registered soubjects? Is there anyway to add something like religion or sphe without going to college for three years? I have only history and cspe and would like something else to top that up.

Thanks!

Can I just saw that this attitude really annoys me. As was pointed out already Religion is an exam subject and therefore teachers need full degrees to teach it. The flippant attitude of "I will just stick on a course in RE and I can teach it just like RE teachers" is most irritating

piptypibe

PeeWe wrote: »

Can I just saw that this attitude really annoys me. As was pointed out already Religion is an exam subject and therefore teachers need full degrees to teach it. The flippant attitude of "I will just stick on a course in RE and I can teach it just like RE teachers" is most irritating

I totally agree with you. It really annoys me that people look down on RE so much ESPECIALLY principals who give it to non-qualified teachers to fill up their timetable!
I really don't see how people can teach R.E. properly without having the neccessary qualification and belief in the subject.

UnLuckyAgain

PeeWe wrote: »

Can I just saw that this attitude really annoys me. As was pointed out already Religion is an exam subject and therefore teachers need full degrees to teach it. The flippant attitude of "I will just stick on a course in RE and I can teach it just like RE teachers" is most irritating

Well the TC and previously the Department of Education and Skills have recognised the one year H.Dip in Theological Studies from NUIM as a qualification for potential teachers so its not like people are looking for a ringroad around a qualification. This is what the powers that be have said is acceptable and its their rules that we play by, unfortunately.

chunli_boom

I'm not being flippant!I KNOW that Religion is an exam subject. Just like I KNOW that CSPE is an exam subject also. If you had actually read my posts you would see that I was complaining about the 'flippant' attitude that is also given to CSPE!

I just thought there might be some night course I could do for a year do gain a qualification in religion as I thought one might exist hence me coming on here and asking. If anyone knows about flippant attitudes to subjects, believe me, it's me.

rainbowtrout

chunli_boom wrote: »

I'm not being flippant!I KNOW that Religion is an exam subject. Just like I KNOW that CSPE is an exam subject also. If you had actually read my posts you would see that I was complaining about the 'flippant' attitude that is also given to CSPE!

I just thought there might be some night course I could do for a year do gain a qualification in religion as I thought one might exist hence me coming on here and asking. If anyone knows about flippant attitudes to subjects, believe me, it's me.

Yes, but in your original post you asked about 'short courses' and 'not wanting to go back to college for another three years' and that pisses people off when they see posts like that because they have put in the effort for the qualification. If you post something that looks like you want a short cut qualification, it's going to get people's backs up. There are loads of threads on primary school teaching here where there are posts that say 'I want to be a primary teacher, but I don't have Irish, is there anyway I can into a course without having to do honours Irish?'

CSPE is not given any respect because there is no follow on from it at Leaving Cert level (Sociology/Politics) so students don't care about it and neither do teachers. It's also offered at Common Level so that immediately says there is no differentiation in the standard that students need to attain to pass. Unfortunatley, I could tell you that if my dog hung around my school long enough he'd get a few hours in CSPE so little is thought of the subject.

Also if the government bring in the proposed plan to limit subjects to 8 for the Junior Cert from 2015 onwards, I can see CSPE going by the wayside. There will be uproar if it is compulsory along with English, Irish and Maths reducing choices in other subjects for students, and if it is optional I can't see schools offering it ahead of other current exam subjects or students taking it ahead of other exam subjects.

If I was you I would seriously start looking into other subjects and how you can get proper qualifications in them. Choose an exam subject, it's your best hope of securing work.

MissLe

I'm currently doing the HDip in Theological Studies in St. Pats in Maynooth. If you're already a qualified teacher you will be able to teach up to 15 hours of Religion per week. I have checked this out with the Teaching Council.

andee

Hi

I have checked out the link to the part time RE course which qualifies one to teach religion in secondary schools (assuming you have the h.dip).

I am interested in pursuing this to boost my employment chances to be perfectly honest.

Just wondering is it a difficult subject to teach? e.g. do students work at it and give it the same respect as other subjects e.g. history

andee

Hi Mislee

just wondering what the work load in the theological studies course is like? have you assignments or exams?

are there many places on the course?

thanks

MissLe

Hi andlee,

I think there are usually about 20 on the course. However there was a big demand this year and there are about 40 of us.

The course is broken up into 3 sections: Systematic Theology, Moral Theology and Scriptures. Each one of these has 3 modules. 2 of these modules are assessed by Reflection Paper and Exam in May. The final module is assessed by Essay only.

You must also do 3 electives. These lectures take place on 6 Saturdays throughout the year. Each one of these will also be assessed by Reflection Paper.

The course seems interesting so far!

Mrs Ron Burgundy

Like many other people I was wondering about the possibility of getting another subject (C.S.P.E, SPHE, religion), and like others have mentioned I was hoping there was a part-time course or something that I could do. I know people are outraged by this attitude, particularly in regards to religion, but in fairness if principals are giving these subjects to existing teachers who are COMPLETELY unqualified and haven't a notion then I don't see what the problem is. Sure some people have degrees in these subjects but it's not our fault the way things are being run. At least this way there might be people teaching it who while they may not have a degree, are at least competent and understand the subject.
Also having spent 5yrs getting my qualification in art and having no funds to fuel a further 3yrs or so in education, is it not understandable to try and gain an extra subject as painlessly (on the finances) as possible. It's fairly obvious that the people making these comments about being 'outraged at this attitude' are in fact in employment and unaware of just how harsh it is out there. Having only one subject, even in the case of art, maths etc..., is a definate minus when it comes to looking for a job.

Basically what I'm trying to say is...get off your high horses and look at it from our perspective please.

rainbowtrout

Mrs Ron Burgundy wrote: »

Like many other people I was wondering about the possibility of getting another subject (C.S.P.E, SPHE, religion), and like others have mentioned I was hoping there was a part-time course or something that I could do. I know people are outraged by this attitude, particularly in regards to religion, but in fairness if principals are giving these subjects to existing teachers who are COMPLETELY unqualified and haven't a notion then I don't see what the problem is. Sure some people have degrees in these subjects but it's not our fault the way things are being run. At least this way there might be people teaching it who while they may not have a degree, are at least competent and understand the subject.
Also having spent 5yrs getting my qualification in art and having no funds to fuel a further 3yrs or so in education, is it not understandable to try and gain an extra subject as painlessly (on the finances) as possible. It's fairly obvious that the people making these comments about being 'outraged at this attitude' are in fact in employment and unaware of just how harsh it is out there. Having only one subject, even in the case of art, maths etc..., is a definate minus when it comes to looking for a job.

Basically what I'm trying to say is...get off your high horses and look at it from our perspective please.

People here aren't on their high horses. The simple fact of the matter is that if a person can do a short evening course in whatever subject and then be deemed qualified in it, it cheapens and devalues the existing qualifications of other teachers. Why should a person be deemed equally qualified in a subject after doing a short course when another person has spent 3-4 years studying the subject to become qualified?

The fact that principals may timetable a teacher for a subject they are not qualified in has nothing to do with it. Teachers teach the timetable they are handed. I've said it here many times, I've never taught CSPE/SPHE/Religion but I'm one of the few teachers in my school that hasn't had one of the three. CSPE classes in my school rarely have the same teacher for the three years in a row. Most principals are not going to hire exclusively for CSPE/SPHE, particularly if it means that it would mean not hiring a teacher in another subject area. Whether this is right or wrong is irrelevant, this is the way it is. It shouldn't mean a short cut to qualification.

On another note, trying to gain a qualification in CSPE, SPHE or Religion is probably a waste of time for the above reason. That's no disrespect to anyone who is actually qualified in those subjects. If you want to make yourself employable you have to have two exam subjects that are taken the whole way up to Leaving Cert in a large number of schools.

Look at this from another angle. If you were going to an interview for an Art job how would you feel if you met another person at the interview going for the same job who said to you 'Well I did the PGDE but my only subject was Religion and I couldn't get a job so I did this one year evening course in Art to get another subject' How would you feel if that person got the job ahead of you even though you had the better Art qualification but they were also 'qualified' by doing this short course and they had two subjects???

Mrs Ron Burgundy

[/QUOTE]Look at this from another angle. If you were going to an interview for an Art job how would you feel if you met another person at the interview going for the same job who said to you 'Well I did the PGDE but my only subject was Religion and I couldn't get a job so I did this one year evening course in Art to get another subject' How would you feel if that person got the job ahead of you even though you had the better Art qualification but they were also 'qualified' by doing this short course and they had two subjects???[/QUOTE]

I understand what your saying and of course it's completely unfair but that's the way things are now so I guess we just have to get on with it. I can't imagine anyone having ONLY religion either. Is there anyone out there who only has religion?? That would be crazy considering how little time is allocated to it on the timetable. Totally can't imagine anyone getting an art qualification on a short course either as your required to have a degree in it - I understand you were probably just trying to make a point here though.

The point I was merely trying to make was the fact that it all boils down (as usual) to money, and the fact that most of us can't afford to do another 3 - 4yrs of education on top of the 4yrs (5 in my case) we've already done. That's where we're stuck.

sitstill

rainbowtrout wrote: »

People here aren't on their high horses. The simple fact of the matter is that if a person can do a short evening course in whatever subject and then be deemed qualified in it, it cheapens and devalues the existing qualifications of other teachers. Why should a person be deemed equally qualified in a subject after doing a short course when another person has spent 3-4 years studying the subject to become qualified?

The fact that principals may timetable a teacher for a subject they are not qualified in has nothing to do with it. Teachers teach the timetable they are handed. I've said it here many times, I've never taught CSPE/SPHE/Religion but I'm one of the few teachers in my school that hasn't had one of the three. CSPE classes in my school rarely have the same teacher for the three years in a row. Most principals are not going to hire exclusively for CSPE/SPHE, particularly if it means that it would mean not hiring a teacher in another subject area. Whether this is right or wrong is irrelevant, this is the way it is. It shouldn't mean a short cut to qualification.

On another note, trying to gain a qualification in CSPE, SPHE or Religion is probably a waste of time for the above reason. That's no disrespect to anyone who is actually qualified in those subjects. If you want to make yourself employable you have to have two exam subjects that are taken the whole way up to Leaving Cert in a large number of schools.

Look at this from another angle. If you were going to an interview for an Art job how would you feel if you met another person at the interview going for the same job who said to you 'Well I did the PGDE but my only subject was Religion and I couldn't get a job so I did this one year evening course in Art to get another subject' How would you feel if that person got the job ahead of you even though you had the better Art qualification but they were also 'qualified' by doing this short course and they had two subjects???

I normally value and agree with everything you say on here Rainbowtrout but I think after reading the above you are wrong.

I did the Higher Diploma in Theological Studies in Maynooth to qualify in RE when my degree only allowed me to teach one subject. This diploma is exactly equal to the 1/3 of a degree in each subject that is demanded by the Teaching Council and I worked just as hard and studied just as much as if I went to say, Mater Dei to study theology.

Since I have been teaching RE along with English, I have been as good as, if not better at teaching RE than a Mater Dei graduate. I have been committed to the subject and my students have done well. I find it very offensive that you claim that people like myself "cheapens and devalues the existing qualifications of other teachers".

rainbowtrout

sitstill wrote: »

I normally value and agree with everything you say on here Rainbowtrout but I think after reading the above you are wrong.

I did the Higher Diploma in Theological Studies in Maynooth to qualify in RE when my degree only allowed me to teach one subject. This diploma is exactly equal to the 1/3 of a degree in each subject that is demanded by the Teaching Council and I worked just as hard and studied just as much as if I went to say, Mater Dei to study theology.

Since I have been teaching RE along with English, I have been as good as, if not better at teaching RE than a Mater Dei graduate. I have been committed to the subject and my students have done well. I find it very offensive that you claim that people like myself "cheapens and devalues the existing qualifications of other teachers".

You have totally misunderstood what I've said. A number of courses for Religion and other subjects have been developed like the HDip you did in Maynooth which as you said is 1/3 of the degree and allows you to qualify. What annoys me is seeing more and more posts from people looking for 'short courses' so they can up their subject count.

I've noticed quite a lot of posts on here in the last few months from people looking for short courses to gain a subject, nobody ever asks if there is a post graduate qualification or can they do a set number of modules to meet the 1/3 degree requirement. It's always short courses. It implies that people are looking to do some course for a couple of months and then register another subject. That's what annoys me. Same as the people who come on here saying they want to be a primary teacher and is there anyway they can get out of doing honours Irish if they don't already have it. To be honest if they are not willing to put the work in to get their Irish to a satisfactory standard to teach in a primary school and are already looking for shortcuts I don't want them teaching any future children I might have.

I didn't do a full maths degree to become qualified in maths. I was the one that started that thread 'For anyone interested in gaining a maths qualification' 6 months ago when I completed my modules with Open University. I did all the modules required by the TC to become qualified. I don't have the full degree yet, but I wasn't looking for a shortcut either.

Terri26

sitstill wrote: »

I normally value and agree with everything you say on here Rainbowtrout but I think after reading the above you are wrong.

I did the Higher Diploma in Theological Studies in Maynooth to qualify in RE when my degree only allowed me to teach one subject. This diploma is exactly equal to the 1/3 of a degree in each subject that is demanded by the Teaching Council and I worked just as hard and studied just as much as if I went to say, Mater Dei to study theology.

Since I have been teaching RE along with English, I have been as good as, if not better at teaching RE than a Mater Dei graduate. I have been committed to the subject and my students have done well. I find it very offensive that you claim that people like myself "cheapens and devalues the existing qualifications of other teachers".

Nobody is claiming you are bad at teaching religion. We are annoyed that there is a course that involves two evenings a week and one Saturday a month entitles people to teach our subject. My theology degree is from Maynooth and I did more than that in first year theology. It does cheapen our degrees as a principal will not adhere to the "is hours". Our subject is already seen as a filler subject and it needs to be defended. No other subject has such a short course that can be deemed just aas acceptable as a degree